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8 Feb Re: Spring planning -- Hessel's Hairstreak and Atlantic White... [] 8 Feb Re: Spring planning -- Hessel's Hairstreak and Atlantic White... [Rick Borchelt ] 8 Feb Re: Spring planning -- Hessel's Hairstreak and Atlantic White... [] 8 Feb Re: Spring planning -- Hessel's Hairstreak and Atlantic White... [Rick Borchelt ] 8 Feb Re: Spring planning -- Hessel's Hairstreak and Atlantic White... [] 7 Feb historic and environmental preservation at Colonial period buildings in Maryland ["Marc Imlay" ] 6 Feb Fwd: [washbutterflies] New bug flick on Discovery Channel [] 3 Feb RE: [washbutterflies] Re: Orange Sulphur ["Smith, Richard H." ] 1 Feb Re: Orange Sulphur [] 1 Feb RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur (UNCLASSIFIED) ["Kirchner, Kevin W CIV (US)" ] 1 Feb RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur (UNCLASSIFIED) ["Smith, Richard H." ] 1 Feb RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur (UNCLASSIFIED) ["Kirchner, Kevin W CIV (US)" ] 1 Feb RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur ["Smith, Richard H." ] 01 Feb Feb. 23: Annual WABC Butterfly Gardening Talk ["larthemisarthemis" ] 31 Jan FW: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: Mourning Cloak ["Smith, Richard H." ] 31 Jan RE: Re: Mourning Cloak ["Smith, Richard H." ] 31 Jan Re: Mourning Cloak [Arundinaria ] 26 Jan Re: Support the Meadow Project ["Bill Z" ] 25 Jan Support the Meadow Project ["janetalbarran" ] 22 Jan Spring planning -- Hessel's Hairstreak and Atlantic White-Cedar [Rick Borchelt ] 22 Jan RE: More expensive than State Park Access ["Marc Imlay" ] 20 Jan RE: More expensive than State Park Access [Alonso Abugattas ] 20 Jan RE: More expensive than State Park Access ["Smith, Richard H." ] 20 Jan More expensive than State Park Access ["LarryL" ] 18 Jan RE: [washbutterflies] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee ["Smith, Richard H." ] 18 Jan Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee [lance biechele ] 18 Jan New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee ["Marc Imlay" ] 16 Jan RE: Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee ["Smith, Richard H." ] 16 Jan RE: Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee [Alonso Abugattas ] 16 Jan RE: Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee ["Smith, Richard H." ] 16 Jan Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee ["Greg" ] 16 Jan RE: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee [Alonso Abugattas ] 15 Jan RE: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee ["Smith, Richard H." ] 16 Jan RE: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee [Alonso Abugattas ] 15 Jan RE: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee ["Smith, Richard H." ] 14 Jan New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee ["Greg" ] 8 Jan RE: Monarchs cross Gulf of Mexico? [Paul Cherubini ] 7 Jan American Snout [Jan Meyer ] 02 Jan FOY Butterflies ["A Bryan" ] 23 Dec RE: December Moths [Alonso Abugattas ] 23 Dec Late season Odonate in Delaware [Hal White ] 23 Dec December Moths ["sopol" ] 19 Dec Re: insect/roach? [Bonnie Ott ] 19 Dec Re: insect/roach? ["Arthur V. Evans" ] 19 Dec insect/roach? [Bonnie Ott ] 16 Dec RE: FW: 11 New Sweat Bees [Alonso Abugattas ] 15 Dec Re: FW: 11 New Sweat Bees [Sam Droege ] 15 Dec FW: 11 New Sweat Bees [Alonso Abugattas ] 14 Dec Pre- and Unpainted Bee Bowls or Pan Traps available for Sale from Non-Profit [Sam Droege ] 13 Dec Re: [leps-talk] Appalachian Tiger Swallowtail (Papilio appalachiensis) [Mona Miller ] 13 Dec Appalachian Tiger Swallowtail (Papilio appalachiensis) [Mona Miller ] 12 Dec butterfly tagging program [Scott Baron ] 10 Dec Re: Lessons from Insects [Mona Miller ] 10 Dec Re: Lessons from Insects [June Tveekrem ] 9 Dec RE: RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 ["Smith, Richard H." ] 9 Dec Re: RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 [lance biechele ] 9 Dec RE: RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 [Rob Garriock ] 9 Dec Life Histories of Cascadia Butterflies [Mona Miller ] 9 Dec RE: RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 [Rob Garriock ] 9 Dec Lessons from Insects [Mona Miller ] 7 Dec RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 ["Smith, Richard H." ] 6 Dec DNA Technology: Discovering New Species [Mona Miller ] 4 Dec Re: December sulphurs [Sheryl Pollock ] 4 Dec December sulphurs [Rick Borchelt ] 2 Dec Scientist, amateurs find new South Florida butterfly species [Mona Miller ] 1 Dec Re: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) [Mona Miller ] 2 Dec RE: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) [Alonso Abugattas ] 1 Dec Re: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) [Mona Miller ] 2 Dec RE: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) [Alonso Abugattas ] 1 Dec Re: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) [Mona Miller ] 1 Dec RE: Re: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) ["Smith, Richard H." ] 1 Dec Re: Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) [Rick Borchelt ] 1 Dec Re: Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) [Rick Borchelt ] 1 Dec RE: Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) [Alonso Abugattas ] 1 Dec Re: Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) [Mona Miller ] 1 Dec RE: [valeps] Wing Fix (Touching Butterflies with Hands) ["Smith, Richard H." ] Subject: Re: Spring planning -- Hessel's Hairstreak and Atlantic White... From: Plusultra AT aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 10:26:47 -0500 (EST) Let me know when you're going to funacetown. I'd love to tag along. Pat In a message dated 2/8/2012 9:49:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rborchelt AT gmail.com writes: One of our trips will undoubtedly take us to frosted elfin central down near Furnacetown. There are some great colonies along the back roads there. On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 8:02 AM, wrote: > ** > > > Good luck with the search. I'm headed for elfins, somewhere. Haven't > thought where yet. Pat > > > In a message dated 2/8/2012 6:01:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > rborchelt AT gmail.com writes: > > That would be great, Pat. There will probably be a number of forays in > April and May and again in July. I've been fortunate in that a lot of > folks > have been sending me location details of AWC stands, and I have at least > six > very likely Eastern Shore locations to survey. I will do a little recon > while the leaves are still off and I can see the cedars more easily. I'll > keep > you posted. > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 1:12 AM, _Plusultra AT aol.com_ (mailto:Plusultra AT aol.com) > > wrote: > > > HI Rick, > > > > I'd be interested in going on your Hessel's Lep Trek. Will keep my eye > out > > for Atlantic White Cedar stands in MD. Maryland Naitve Plant Society may > > have some thoughts on this. > > > > Pat Durkin > > > > > > In a message dated 1/22/2012 12:19:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > _rborchelt AT gmail.com_ (mailto:rborchelt AT gmail.com) writes: > > > > I'm currently plotting a strategy to determine whether Hessel's > > hairstreak is still extant in Maryland. As most of you know, Hessel's > > was only described about 50 years ago, having been assumed an aberrant > > form of juniper hairstreak, which it closely resembles in form and > > phenology. Hessel's caterpillars, however, feeds only on Atlantic > > white-cedar, great stands of which in tidal waters of the Eastern and > > Western shore were all but decimated to supply the lumber trade with > > exceptionally rot-resistant cedar shakes and shingles, among other > > timber uses. Drainage and conversion to agricultural and residential > > landscapes have wiped out most of the rest. Active restoration > > efforts are underway in a number of known previous habitats, but > > Hessel's appears to require mature trees. > > > > Hessel's hairstreaks spend the great majority of their time in the > > canopies of these mature Atlantic white-cedars, reportedly coming down > > to visit flowers (Vaccinium in the first brood, Clethra and > > Cephalanthus in the second) and moist sand early in the morning and > > late in the day. It is infrequently but regularly reported from > > white-cedar stands in the NJ Pine Barrens. > > > > I'm asking readers to help me identify any remaining (even small) > > stands where there are 10 or more mature Atlantic white-cedar trees. > > Mature trees will be 40 feet or so in height, and good stands used to > > occur in the Pocomoke drainage and other areas of the lower Eastern > > Shore, as well as along the Severn and its tributaries on the Western > > Shore, and in lesser numbers elsewhere in the state. In its natural > > condition, it forms almost pure, dense stands of even age. > > > > I'd appreciate any intelligence (off-line) on remaining white-cedar > > stands to check out in the 2012 flight season. We might schedule a > > LepTrek field trip or two to explore them if there is sufficient > > interest. > > > > Many thanks! > > > > -- > > Rick Borchelt > > College Park, MD > > preferred personal email: rickb |AT| nasw |DOT| org > > > > __http://leplog.wordpress.com__ (http://leplog.wordpress.com_/) > (_http://leplog.wordpress.com/_ (http://leplog.wordpress.com/) ) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Rick Borchelt College Park, MD preferred personal email: rickb |AT| nasw |DOT| org http://leplog.wordpress.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: Spring planning -- Hessel's Hairstreak and Atlantic White... From: Rick Borchelt <rborchelt AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 09:49:43 -0500 One of our trips will undoubtedly take us to frosted elfin central down near Furnacetown. There are some great colonies along the back roads there. On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 8:02 AM, wrote: > ** > > > Good luck with the search. I'm headed for elfins, somewhere. Haven't > thought where yet. Pat > > > In a message dated 2/8/2012 6:01:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > rborchelt AT gmail.com writes: > > That would be great, Pat. There will probably be a number of forays in > April and May and again in July. I've been fortunate in that a lot of > folks > have been sending me location details of AWC stands, and I have at least > six > very likely Eastern Shore locations to survey. I will do a little recon > while the leaves are still off and I can see the cedars more easily. I'll > keep > you posted. > > On Feb 8, 2012, at 1:12 AM, _Plusultra AT aol.com_ (mailto:Plusultra AT aol.com) > > wrote: > > > HI Rick, > > > > I'd be interested in going on your Hessel's Lep Trek. Will keep my eye > out > > for Atlantic White Cedar stands in MD. Maryland Naitve Plant Society may > > have some thoughts on this. > > > > Pat Durkin > > > > > > In a message dated 1/22/2012 12:19:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > _rborchelt AT gmail.com_ (mailto:rborchelt AT gmail.com) writes: > > > > I'm currently plotting a strategy to determine whether Hessel's > > hairstreak is still extant in Maryland. As most of you know, Hessel's > > was only described about 50 years ago, having been assumed an aberrant > > form of juniper hairstreak, which it closely resembles in form and > > phenology. Hessel's caterpillars, however, feeds only on Atlantic > > white-cedar, great stands of which in tidal waters of the Eastern and > > Western shore were all but decimated to supply the lumber trade with > > exceptionally rot-resistant cedar shakes and shingles, among other > > timber uses. Drainage and conversion to agricultural and residential > > landscapes have wiped out most of the rest. Active restoration > > efforts are underway in a number of known previous habitats, but > > Hessel's appears to require mature trees. > > > > Hessel's hairstreaks spend the great majority of their time in the > > canopies of these mature Atlantic white-cedars, reportedly coming down > > to visit flowers (Vaccinium in the first brood, Clethra and > > Cephalanthus in the second) and moist sand early in the morning and > > late in the day. It is infrequently but regularly reported from > > white-cedar stands in the NJ Pine Barrens. > > > > I'm asking readers to help me identify any remaining (even small) > > stands where there are 10 or more mature Atlantic white-cedar trees. > > Mature trees will be 40 feet or so in height, and good stands used to > > occur in the Pocomoke drainage and other areas of the lower Eastern > > Shore, as well as along the Severn and its tributaries on the Western > > Shore, and in lesser numbers elsewhere in the state. In its natural > > condition, it forms almost pure, dense stands of even age. > > > > I'd appreciate any intelligence (off-line) on remaining white-cedar > > stands to check out in the 2012 flight season. We might schedule a > > LepTrek field trip or two to explore them if there is sufficient > > interest. > > > > Many thanks! > > > > -- > > Rick Borchelt > > College Park, MD > > preferred personal email: rickb |AT| nasw |DOT| org > > > > __http://leplog.wordpress.com__ (http://leplog.wordpress.com_/) > (_http://leplog.wordpress.com/_ (http://leplog.wordpress.com/) ) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- Rick Borchelt College Park, MD preferred personal email: rickb |AT| nasw |DOT| org http://leplog.wordpress.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: Spring planning -- Hessel's Hairstreak and Atlantic White... From: Plusultra AT aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 08:02:34 -0500 (EST) Good luck with the search. I'm headed for elfins, somewhere. Haven't thought where yet. Pat In a message dated 2/8/2012 6:01:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rborchelt AT gmail.com writes: That would be great, Pat. There will probably be a number of forays in April and May and again in July. I've been fortunate in that a lot of folks have been sending me location details of AWC stands, and I have at least six very likely Eastern Shore locations to survey. I will do a little recon while the leaves are still off and I can see the cedars more easily. I'll keep you posted. On Feb 8, 2012, at 1:12 AM, _Plusultra AT aol.com_ (mailto:Plusultra AT aol.com) wrote: > HI Rick, > > I'd be interested in going on your Hessel's Lep Trek. Will keep my eye out > for Atlantic White Cedar stands in MD. Maryland Naitve Plant Society may > have some thoughts on this. > > Pat Durkin > > > In a message dated 1/22/2012 12:19:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > _rborchelt AT gmail.com_ (mailto:rborchelt AT gmail.com) writes: > > I'm currently plotting a strategy to determine whether Hessel's > hairstreak is still extant in Maryland. As most of you know, Hessel's > was only described about 50 years ago, having been assumed an aberrant > form of juniper hairstreak, which it closely resembles in form and > phenology. Hessel's caterpillars, however, feeds only on Atlantic > white-cedar, great stands of which in tidal waters of the Eastern and > Western shore were all but decimated to supply the lumber trade with > exceptionally rot-resistant cedar shakes and shingles, among other > timber uses. Drainage and conversion to agricultural and residential > landscapes have wiped out most of the rest. Active restoration > efforts are underway in a number of known previous habitats, but > Hessel's appears to require mature trees. > > Hessel's hairstreaks spend the great majority of their time in the > canopies of these mature Atlantic white-cedars, reportedly coming down > to visit flowers (Vaccinium in the first brood, Clethra and > Cephalanthus in the second) and moist sand early in the morning and > late in the day. It is infrequently but regularly reported from > white-cedar stands in the NJ Pine Barrens. > > I'm asking readers to help me identify any remaining (even small) > stands where there are 10 or more mature Atlantic white-cedar trees. > Mature trees will be 40 feet or so in height, and good stands used to > occur in the Pocomoke drainage and other areas of the lower Eastern > Shore, as well as along the Severn and its tributaries on the Western > Shore, and in lesser numbers elsewhere in the state. In its natural > condition, it forms almost pure, dense stands of even age. > > I'd appreciate any intelligence (off-line) on remaining white-cedar > stands to check out in the 2012 flight season. We might schedule a > LepTrek field trip or two to explore them if there is sufficient > interest. > > Many thanks! > > -- > Rick Borchelt > College Park, MD > preferred personal email: rickb |AT| nasw |DOT| org > > __http://leplog.wordpress.com__ (http://leplog.wordpress.com_/) (_http://leplog.wordpress.com/_ (http://leplog.wordpress.com/) ) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: Spring planning -- Hessel's Hairstreak and Atlantic White... From: Rick Borchelt <rborchelt AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 06:00:46 -0500 That would be great, Pat. There will probably be a number of forays in April and May and again in July. I've been fortunate in that a lot of folks have been sending me location details of AWC stands, and I have at least six very likely Eastern Shore locations to survey. I will do a little recon while the leaves are still off and I can see the cedars more easily. I'll keep you posted. On Feb 8, 2012, at 1:12 AM, Plusultra AT aol.com wrote: > HI Rick, > > I'd be interested in going on your Hessel's Lep Trek. Will keep my eye out > for Atlantic White Cedar stands in MD. Maryland Naitve Plant Society may > have some thoughts on this. > > Pat Durkin > > > In a message dated 1/22/2012 12:19:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > rborchelt AT gmail.com writes: > > I'm currently plotting a strategy to determine whether Hessel's > hairstreak is still extant in Maryland. As most of you know, Hessel's > was only described about 50 years ago, having been assumed an aberrant > form of juniper hairstreak, which it closely resembles in form and > phenology. Hessel's caterpillars, however, feeds only on Atlantic > white-cedar, great stands of which in tidal waters of the Eastern and > Western shore were all but decimated to supply the lumber trade with > exceptionally rot-resistant cedar shakes and shingles, among other > timber uses. Drainage and conversion to agricultural and residential > landscapes have wiped out most of the rest. Active restoration > efforts are underway in a number of known previous habitats, but > Hessel's appears to require mature trees. > > Hessel's hairstreaks spend the great majority of their time in the > canopies of these mature Atlantic white-cedars, reportedly coming down > to visit flowers (Vaccinium in the first brood, Clethra and > Cephalanthus in the second) and moist sand early in the morning and > late in the day. It is infrequently but regularly reported from > white-cedar stands in the NJ Pine Barrens. > > I'm asking readers to help me identify any remaining (even small) > stands where there are 10 or more mature Atlantic white-cedar trees. > Mature trees will be 40 feet or so in height, and good stands used to > occur in the Pocomoke drainage and other areas of the lower Eastern > Shore, as well as along the Severn and its tributaries on the Western > Shore, and in lesser numbers elsewhere in the state. In its natural > condition, it forms almost pure, dense stands of even age. > > I'd appreciate any intelligence (off-line) on remaining white-cedar > stands to check out in the 2012 flight season. We might schedule a > LepTrek field trip or two to explore them if there is sufficient > interest. > > Many thanks! > > -- > Rick Borchelt > College Park, MD > preferred personal email: rickb |AT| nasw |DOT| org > > _http://leplog.wordpress.com_ (http://leplog.wordpress.com/) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: Spring planning -- Hessel's Hairstreak and Atlantic White... From: Plusultra AT aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 01:12:04 -0500 (EST) HI Rick, I'd be interested in going on your Hessel's Lep Trek. Will keep my eye out for Atlantic White Cedar stands in MD. Maryland Naitve Plant Society may have some thoughts on this. Pat Durkin In a message dated 1/22/2012 12:19:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rborchelt AT gmail.com writes: I'm currently plotting a strategy to determine whether Hessel's hairstreak is still extant in Maryland. As most of you know, Hessel's was only described about 50 years ago, having been assumed an aberrant form of juniper hairstreak, which it closely resembles in form and phenology. Hessel's caterpillars, however, feeds only on Atlantic white-cedar, great stands of which in tidal waters of the Eastern and Western shore were all but decimated to supply the lumber trade with exceptionally rot-resistant cedar shakes and shingles, among other timber uses. Drainage and conversion to agricultural and residential landscapes have wiped out most of the rest. Active restoration efforts are underway in a number of known previous habitats, but Hessel's appears to require mature trees. Hessel's hairstreaks spend the great majority of their time in the canopies of these mature Atlantic white-cedars, reportedly coming down to visit flowers (Vaccinium in the first brood, Clethra and Cephalanthus in the second) and moist sand early in the morning and late in the day. It is infrequently but regularly reported from white-cedar stands in the NJ Pine Barrens. I'm asking readers to help me identify any remaining (even small) stands where there are 10 or more mature Atlantic white-cedar trees. Mature trees will be 40 feet or so in height, and good stands used to occur in the Pocomoke drainage and other areas of the lower Eastern Shore, as well as along the Severn and its tributaries on the Western Shore, and in lesser numbers elsewhere in the state. In its natural condition, it forms almost pure, dense stands of even age. I'd appreciate any intelligence (off-line) on remaining white-cedar stands to check out in the 2012 flight season. We might schedule a LepTrek field trip or two to explore them if there is sufficient interest. Many thanks! -- Rick Borchelt College Park, MD preferred personal email: rickb |AT| nasw |DOT| org _http://leplog.wordpress.com_ (http://leplog.wordpress.com/) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: historic and environmental preservation at Colonial period buildings in Maryland From: "Marc Imlay" <ialm AT erols.com> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 10:19:03 -0500 Landscape managers in Maryland and in the region may be assisted with my report on landscaping with colonial historic native plants. This will help the bugs come back too. http://www.mdflora.org/forgardeners.html Miscellaneous List of native plants from John Bartram's nursery Complete plant list from John Bartram's Nursery, March 1792 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ma-ipc/message/4652 Marc Imlay, PhD, Conservation biologist, Park Ranger Office Non-native Invasive Plant Control coordinator. (301) 442-5657 cell ialm AT erols.com Natural and Historical Resources Division The Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission www.pgparks.com Landscaping with colonial historic native plants Many preservationists are interested in historic and environmental preservation at Colonial period buildings in Maryland and in the region. Following is a list of plants that were in the colonial nursery trade that are also native to Maryland. The list of 31 species was obtained from checking all the 106 plants George Washington obtained from John Bartram's Nursery with Brown and Brown and Asa Gray to verify which ones are native to Maryland. Landscaping with both historically and environmentally sound choices is excellent. Notice that Japanese barberry should be replaced with American barberry. The references are: George Washington: Landscape Architect List of Plants From John Bartram's Nursery, March 1792 http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/documents/bartram/index.html and Woody Plants of Maryland, Russel G. Brown and Melvin L. Brown, 1972 Herbaceous Plants of Maryland, Russel G. Brown and Melvin L. Brown, 1984 Department of Botany, University of Maryland. Note that some plants, such as (a 3) Hypericum kalmianum, Shrub St. John's wort, and (38.) Styrax grandifolium, Snowdrop Tree, are listed as native to the United states but not Maryland. See Asa Gray, 1908, Flowering Plants and Ferns of the Central and Northeastern United States and Adjacent Canada, page 573. 650. The following native plant list is in the chronological order used in the Bartram publication starting with the item number and scientific name used in 1792. a 1. Rhododendron maximum. Rosebay, Brown and Brown, page 251, 252, Upper midland and mountain zones and Cecil County. 9. Berberis Canadensis. American barberry, Brown and Brown, page 99, 101. Only in the mountain zone of Maryland. 11. Evonimus atrapurpurous [Euonymus atropurpureus]. Wahoo, Burning Bush, Brown and Brown, page 206, 207. Fairly common in Western Maryland. 12. Fothergilla gardenii. Dwarf Witchalder, Asa Gray, Virginia to Georgia, page 453. 13. Franklinia alatamaha --native of Georgia [Franklin tree] but Benjamin Franklin saved it from extinction so it may be OK to plant it as an endangered or threatened species. 14. Baccharis halimifolia. Groundsel Tree. Brown and Brown, page 318, 319. Abundant along the shores of the Bay, rivers, estuaries and the higher parts of salt marshes. 16. Kalmia angustifolia. Lambkill, Sheep Laurel. Brown and Brown, page 257-259. Rare in Maryland; known on the Coastal Zone, west of the Bay, one station in Anne Arundel County. (with the Gaultheria [procumbens], or mountain tea [wintergreen]) Brown and Brown, page 261, 263. In acid woods and thickets, throughout the state. 17. Dirca palustris. Leather wood. Brown and Brown, page 236, 237. Rich woods and stream banks. Midland and Mountain Zones. 18.Thuja occidentalis. Northern White Cedar. Brown and Brown, page 16, 17. In neutral swamps or on lime outcrops, on clifs along the Potomac, Washington Co. Used as an ornamental in Maryland. 22. Magnolia tripetala. Umbrella Tree. Brown and Brown, page 105, 106. known from Harford Co. 23. Magnolia acuminata. Cucumber Tree. Brown and Brown, page 105, 106. 27. Viburnum alnifolium. Hobble Bush. Brown and Brown, page 309, 310. Moist woods only in mountain zone. (Garrett Co.) 32. Acer striatum. Acer pensylvanicum. Striped Maple, Moosewood. Brown and Brown, page 211, 214. western Maryland. 34. Acer sacharinum. Sugar Maple. Brown and Brown, page 216, 217. 37. Clethra alnifolia. Sweet Pepperbush. Brown and Brown, page 245, 246. Common in the Coastal Zone. e 41. Pinus strobus. White Pine. Brown and Brown, page 3, 5. e.50. Prunus maritima. Beach Plumb. Brown and Brown, page 175-177. a 59. Evonimus americanus. Euonymus americanus. Spindle Tree. Strawberry Bush. Brown and Brown, page 206, 207. Fairly common throughout the state. d. 65. Amorpha fruticosa. Bastard Indigo. False Indigo. Asa Gray page 512. 71. Mespilus prunifolia. Aronia prunifolia. Pyrus floribunda. Purple Chokeberry. Brown and Brown, page 132-133. 75. Itea virginiana. Virginia sweetspire, Virginia Willow, Tassel-white. Brown and Brown, page 116-117. Swamps or wet places of Coastal Plain. 78. Hydrangia arborescens. Wild Hydrangea. Brown and Brown, page 113,114. rich woods and stream banks, often in rocky places. Common in the Midland and Mountains; rare in the Coastal Plain. e 82. [13] Magnolia glauca. Magnolia virginiana. Sweet Bay Magnolia. Brown and Brown, page 104-106. Swampy woods or stream banks, at low altitudes, only on the Coastal Plain. 83. Sambucus rubra. Sambucus canadensis. American Elder, Sweet Elder. Brown and Brown, page 314, 316, 317. 84. Rubus odoratus. Purple-Flowering Raspberry, Thimbleberry. Brown and Brown, page 161,162. f 85. Rosa Pennsylvanica flor: pleno. Rosa palustris. Swamp Rose. Brown and Brown, page 172, 173. 97. Bignonia crucigera. Bignonia capreolata. Crossvine. Brown and Brown, page 295, 296. 99. Betula (alnus) maritima. Seaside Alder. Brown and Brown, page 62, 63, 65. e 102. Callicarpa americana. Beauty Berry. Brown and Brown, page 287, 288. b.e. 106. Aristolochia sipho. Aristolochia durior (macrophylla). Dutchman's Pipe. Brown and Brown, page 96, 97. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Fwd: [washbutterflies] New bug flick on Discovery Channel From: Plusultra AT aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 17:07:00 -0500 (EST) ____________________________________ From: Plusultra AT aol.com Reply-to: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Sent: 2/6/2012 5:06:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Subj: [washbutterflies] New bug flick on Discovery Channel "Insect Wars" all new TV documentary Tuesday, Feb. 7, 10 PM Discovery Channel Pat Durkin Washington, DC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: [washbutterflies] Re: Orange Sulphur From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 09:42:22 -0500 Harry, Wow, those are certainly enlightening results! Since all of the spring Sleepy Oranges I had ever encountered were fairly fresh individuals, I assumed that they had recently emerged. On the other hand, it is perfectly possible that they had emerged in the fall and immediately went into adult hibernation and thus not have endured much flight wear until the spring. I myself have never encountered any summer form Orange Sulphurs during mid-winter warm spells and early spring, so it is fascinating that the summer forms are possible in the winter. What turned up in my net were the small pale forms, which are probably like that because of spending some period of the larval and pupal stage in cold weather. It's amazing how many adaptations are possible with these small creatures! Dick From: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pavulaan AT aol.com Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 10:02 PM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [washbutterflies] Re: Orange Sulphur Dick, all: I don't believe Sleepy Oranges overwinter in the chrysalis stage here. Their foodplant, a tall Senna, is usually quite deteriorated by mid-September in the natural habitat and there is little food for the caterpillars to feed on after September. I had often wondered about this, wondering why there is a full brood in September and early October, with adults quite active in a field here in Leesburg even after the plants have completely lost their leaves and seed pods are brown and popping open. There is practically nothing left to lay eggs on. Yet, there they are, in early spring! After reading some guides on the subject, it became evident that Sleepy Oranges overwinter in the adult stage in the south, so why not here? So in fall 2010, I captured an adult male in October and placed him in a small container inside a box, in my garage for the winter. He went right into hibernation all winter. Slight misting about every week but he never seemed to feed, even when exposed to daylight and slight warmth for a bit. Just sat there. In very early spring, I exposed him to sun on a warm day, fed him hummingbird mixture, and off he flew! Orange Sulphurs definitely overwinter in the larval stage. I managed to overwinter some young caterpillars outside on a caged clover, through winter. However, they appear to go right through to adult whenever the weather warms up. But those mid-winter dwarfed adults are certainly ex-pupa, so they apparently can overwinter in the chrysalis as well. What is more interesting, is how long can the adults can survive in winter at sub-freezing temps? Several years ago, they flew quite late into the season, to around Jan. 1. A cold snap put an end to any lepidopterous activity but it was not of the subarctic cold that we sometimes get. However, a January warm spell brought out many adults in this region. I netted several along the W&OD bike trail and noted that they were of the SUMMER form! They were fresh, all having emerged that week. A subsequent cold wave lasted for slightly over two weeks, with some night temps in the low 20's, daily highs in the low 30's. Then in early February, another few days of warm springlike weather followed. A return trip to the same spot revealed a flight of just a few very worn summer form adults that certainly survived since the previous warm spell. Mixed in with these, however, were spring forms! I found it fascinating how the forms switched over like that, separated by only about 2-3 weeks of cold. Leroy Koehn apparently kept Orange Sulphurs alive through several WEEKS of mid-winter weather in a cage set on a fully-exposed lawn in Kentucky. Orange Sulphurs apparently have not yet fully adapted to northeastern cold and will try to pass winter in whatever stage possible, depending on the weather. Harry -----Original Message----- From: washbutterflies To: washbutterflies Sent: Thu, Feb 2, 2012 5:39 am Subject: [washbutterflies] Digest Number 1592 There are 4 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1a. Re: Orange Sulphur From: Smith, Richard H. 2. Cabbage White From: ROBERT SPEAKER 3. Washington DC mid-winter butterflies From: pavulaan AT aol.com 4. more on mid-winter butterflies From: pavulaan AT aol.com Messages ________________________________________________________________________ 1a. Re: Orange Sulphur Posted by: "Smith, Richard H." Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu richardhsmith2002 Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:49 am ((PST)) Hi June, Actually, early spring Orange Sulphurs are not brightly colored but are rather small, pale (compared to summer individuals), and practically indistinguishable from early spring Clouded Sulphurs (which are also small and pale). Since what you saw was evidently distinctly orange, I am betting that it was actually a Sleepy Orange. The chrysalids of this species have been known to survive mild winters in Maryland, and adults will emerge in early spring. In spite of being a southern species, Sleepy Oranges appear in the mountainous areas of Maryland and West Virginia as frequently as in Southern Maryland in the spring. Many White and Sulphur species emerge through the winter in the South, so some warm January weather in Maryland will push some into emergence up here, but unfortunately the predominance of cold weather here will make them relatively inactive and short-lived. Dick Smith From: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of June Tveekrem Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:28 PM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur I saw an Orange Sulphur this afternoon in Hancock, MD. It was very fresh-looking, hence brightly colored. I don't think these overwinter as adults, and besides, an overwintering adult wouldn't have looked fresh. Could this butterfly have emerged too soon? -- June Tveekrem Columbia, MD Messages in this topic (5) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ 2. Cabbage White Posted by: "ROBERT SPEAKER" rcspeaker AT verizon.net bobspeaker2007 Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 2:24 pm ((PST)) I saw a cabbage white in the Washington Youth Garden at the National Arboretum, about 2 PM. -------------- Robert C. Speaker 712 12th Street NE Washington, DC 20002 202.397.7447 rcspeaker AT verizon.net Messages in this topic (1) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ 3. Washington DC mid-winter butterflies Posted by: "pavulaan AT aol.com" pavulaan AT aol.com hpavulaan Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 4:43 pm ((PST)) All: I had to do a double-take on my calendar today. Is is APRIL 1 and I missed two months? During my lunchtime walk today, I walked over into the District, where many homes have well-managed gardens now displaying the occasional bloom esp. winter-blooming heather, and lawns are ablaze with blooming weeds of varying sorts including dandelions. The smell of "honey" in the air was distinct along Northgate Road, NW, where I always walk to see my first Orange Sulphurs and Cabbage Whites of the season and today was no disappointment. Tally up 2 Orange Sulphurs, one on a front lawn on Northgate Road and another a further down on the other side of 16th Street on the slope down to the Lowell School field along Kalmia Drive. The Northgate Road location is always good for the first Orange Sulphurs of the year. Add one Question Mark in Rock Creek Park, where I see one EVERY year during the first warm days. You'd almost be tempted to think it's the same one along the same stretch of trail, year after year. I won't go as far as crediting global warming for this weather. We've had similar mid-winter El Nino and La Nina effects before; mid-winter Sulphurs, Cabbage Whites and even once an American Lady - are not totally unusual for the area around Silver Spring and the northern tip of DC. I did hear lots of lawn "chirpies", though - those little cricket relatives. Harry Pavulaan Messages in this topic (1) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ 4. more on mid-winter butterflies Posted by: "pavulaan AT aol.com" pavulaan AT aol.com hpavulaan Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 5:06 pm ((PST)) All: Just this evening, I went out into my garage and discovered that two of my Tiger Swallowtail chrysalids have already emerged! One apparently emerged within the past week and must have froze one night (but was still soft) while the other just hatched today but the wings are hopelessly deformed. These were kept in the coldest spot in my garage, right inside one of the doors where water freezes on cold nights. Looks like I may have a few more with developing wings. Harry Pavulaan Messages in this topic (1) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: Re: Orange Sulphur From: ringler1 AT comcast.net Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 21:36:10 +0000 (UTC)    On Jan. 25 at Hart-Miller Island in Baltimore County Kevin Graff and I saw one Orange Sulfur. It appeared normal in size and color. My only other January sighting in the past was two Orange Sulfurs at Browns Station in Prince George's County on Jan. 16, 2000. These are both Coastal Plain sites where it is warmer. Is it possible  they survived from the fall into a mild early winter? Bob Ringler Eldersburg MD ringler1 AT comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin W CIV Kirchner (US)" To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 2:00:49 PM Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur (UNCLASSIFIED)   Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Dick What a nice answer. Thanks Kevin -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Smith, Richard H. Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 11:56 AM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur (UNCLASSIFIED) Hi Kevin, From what I know and have read, I don't think it is possible to make any statement about hierarchy that is general among butterflies. For species that overwinter as pupae, emergence time is mainly keyed to average temperature over a period of days and to how far the chrysalid was able to develop in the fall before cold weather set in. For species that overwinter as larvae, larval activity and development in the fall and spring is regulated mainly by photoperiod. For the subsequent pupal stage, there is a fixed minimum time for pupal development, but the actual adult emergence time can be soon or late depending on the frequencies of rain, sun, and warm temperatures. Thus, the ultimate emergence time starts with photoperiod, but that is mediated later by weather factors. It is startling to observe that in spite of all these interdependent factors, most individuals within some species will emerge within a few days of one another. However, the calendar dates of that practically spontaneous emergence time can vary by a week or more from one year to another. It goes to show that whatever factors are randomly experienced from year to year, a major percentage of individuals of a species will react in precisely the same way to them. The small fraction that do not follow the norm will have more trouble finding mates, but these will also be the individuals that will serve to perpetuate the species when weather factors are detrimental to the majority. Dick From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Kirchner, Kevin W CIV (US) Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 10:42 AM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur (UNCLASSIFIED) Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Hi Dick What's the strongest determinate of time of emergence in leps - is it: photo period, temperature, time spent as a pupa (for those that pupate), or something else? Would you know the hierarchical ranking of the different determinates? Thanks Kevin -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Smith, Richard H. Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:49 AM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Cc: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur Hi June, Actually, early spring Orange Sulphurs are not brightly colored but are rather small, pale (compared to summer individuals), and practically indistinguishable from early spring Clouded Sulphurs (which are also small and pale). Since what you saw was evidently distinctly orange, I am betting that it was actually a Sleepy Orange. The chrysalids of this species have been known to survive mild winters in Maryland, and adults will emerge in early spring. In spite of being a southern species, Sleepy Oranges appear in the mountainous areas of Maryland and West Virginia as frequently as in Southern Maryland in the spring. Many White and Sulphur species emerge through the winter in the South, so some warm January weather in Maryland will push some into emergence up here, but unfortunately the predominance of cold weather here will make them relatively inactive and short-lived. Dick Smith From: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com [mailto: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of June Tveekrem Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:28 PM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur I saw an Orange Sulphur this afternoon in Hancock, MD. It was very fresh-looking, hence brightly colored. I don't think these overwinter as adults, and besides, an overwintering adult wouldn't have looked fresh. Could this butterfly have emerged too soon? -- June Tveekrem Columbia, MD [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur (UNCLASSIFIED) From: "Kirchner, Kevin W CIV (US)" <kevin.w.kirchner.civ AT mail.mil> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 19:00:49 +0000 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Dick What a nice answer. Thanks Kevin -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Smith, Richard H. Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 11:56 AM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur (UNCLASSIFIED) Hi Kevin, From what I know and have read, I don't think it is possible to make any statement about hierarchy that is general among butterflies. For species that overwinter as pupae, emergence time is mainly keyed to average temperature over a period of days and to how far the chrysalid was able to develop in the fall before cold weather set in. For species that overwinter as larvae, larval activity and development in the fall and spring is regulated mainly by photoperiod. For the subsequent pupal stage, there is a fixed minimum time for pupal development, but the actual adult emergence time can be soon or late depending on the frequencies of rain, sun, and warm temperatures. Thus, the ultimate emergence time starts with photoperiod, but that is mediated later by weather factors. It is startling to observe that in spite of all these interdependent factors, most individuals within some species will emerge within a few days of one another. However, the calendar dates of that practically spontaneous emergence time can vary by a week or more from one year to another. It goes to show that whatever factors are randomly experienced from year to year, a major percentage of individuals of a species will react in precisely the same way to them. The small fraction that do not follow the norm will have more trouble finding mates, but these will also be the individuals that will serve to perpetuate the species when weather factors are detrimental to the majority. Dick From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Kirchner, Kevin W CIV (US) Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 10:42 AM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur (UNCLASSIFIED) Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Hi Dick What's the strongest determinate of time of emergence in leps - is it: photo period, temperature, time spent as a pupa (for those that pupate), or something else? Would you know the hierarchical ranking of the different determinates? Thanks Kevin -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Smith, Richard H. Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:49 AM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Cc: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur Hi June, Actually, early spring Orange Sulphurs are not brightly colored but are rather small, pale (compared to summer individuals), and practically indistinguishable from early spring Clouded Sulphurs (which are also small and pale). Since what you saw was evidently distinctly orange, I am betting that it was actually a Sleepy Orange. The chrysalids of this species have been known to survive mild winters in Maryland, and adults will emerge in early spring. In spite of being a southern species, Sleepy Oranges appear in the mountainous areas of Maryland and West Virginia as frequently as in Southern Maryland in the spring. Many White and Sulphur species emerge through the winter in the South, so some warm January weather in Maryland will push some into emergence up here, but unfortunately the predominance of cold weather here will make them relatively inactive and short-lived. Dick Smith From: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of June Tveekrem Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:28 PM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur I saw an Orange Sulphur this afternoon in Hancock, MD. It was very fresh-looking, hence brightly colored. I don't think these overwinter as adults, and besides, an overwintering adult wouldn't have looked fresh. Could this butterfly have emerged too soon? -- June Tveekrem Columbia, MD [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur (UNCLASSIFIED) From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 11:56:21 -0500 Hi Kevin, From what I know and have read, I don't think it is possible to make any statement about hierarchy that is general among butterflies. For species that overwinter as pupae, emergence time is mainly keyed to average temperature over a period of days and to how far the chrysalid was able to develop in the fall before cold weather set in. For species that overwinter as larvae, larval activity and development in the fall and spring is regulated mainly by photoperiod. For the subsequent pupal stage, there is a fixed minimum time for pupal development, but the actual adult emergence time can be soon or late depending on the frequencies of rain, sun, and warm temperatures. Thus, the ultimate emergence time starts with photoperiod, but that is mediated later by weather factors. It is startling to observe that in spite of all these interdependent factors, most individuals within some species will emerge within a few days of one another. However, the calendar dates of that practically spontaneous emergence time can vary by a week or more from one year to another. It goes to show that whatever factors are randomly experienced from year to year, a major percentage of individuals of a species will react in precisely the same way to them. The small fraction that do not follow the norm will have more trouble finding mates, but these will also be the individuals that will serve to perpetuate the species when weather factors are detrimental to the majority. Dick From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kirchner, Kevin W CIV (US) Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 10:42 AM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur (UNCLASSIFIED) Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Hi Dick What's the strongest determinate of time of emergence in leps - is it: photo period, temperature, time spent as a pupa (for those that pupate), or something else? Would you know the hierarchical ranking of the different determinates? Thanks Kevin -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Smith, Richard H. Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:49 AM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Cc: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur Hi June, Actually, early spring Orange Sulphurs are not brightly colored but are rather small, pale (compared to summer individuals), and practically indistinguishable from early spring Clouded Sulphurs (which are also small and pale). Since what you saw was evidently distinctly orange, I am betting that it was actually a Sleepy Orange. The chrysalids of this species have been known to survive mild winters in Maryland, and adults will emerge in early spring. In spite of being a southern species, Sleepy Oranges appear in the mountainous areas of Maryland and West Virginia as frequently as in Southern Maryland in the spring. Many White and Sulphur species emerge through the winter in the South, so some warm January weather in Maryland will push some into emergence up here, but unfortunately the predominance of cold weather here will make them relatively inactive and short-lived. Dick Smith From: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of June Tveekrem Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:28 PM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur I saw an Orange Sulphur this afternoon in Hancock, MD. It was very fresh-looking, hence brightly colored. I don't think these overwinter as adults, and besides, an overwintering adult wouldn't have looked fresh. Could this butterfly have emerged too soon? -- June Tveekrem Columbia, MD [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur (UNCLASSIFIED) From: "Kirchner, Kevin W CIV (US)" <kevin.w.kirchner.civ AT mail.mil> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 15:41:55 +0000 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Hi Dick What's the strongest determinate of time of emergence in leps - is it: photo period, temperature, time spent as a pupa (for those that pupate), or something else? Would you know the hierarchical ranking of the different determinates? Thanks Kevin -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Smith, Richard H. Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:49 AM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Cc: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur Hi June, Actually, early spring Orange Sulphurs are not brightly colored but are rather small, pale (compared to summer individuals), and practically indistinguishable from early spring Clouded Sulphurs (which are also small and pale). Since what you saw was evidently distinctly orange, I am betting that it was actually a Sleepy Orange. The chrysalids of this species have been known to survive mild winters in Maryland, and adults will emerge in early spring. In spite of being a southern species, Sleepy Oranges appear in the mountainous areas of Maryland and West Virginia as frequently as in Southern Maryland in the spring. Many White and Sulphur species emerge through the winter in the South, so some warm January weather in Maryland will push some into emergence up here, but unfortunately the predominance of cold weather here will make them relatively inactive and short-lived. Dick Smith From: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of June Tveekrem Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:28 PM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur I saw an Orange Sulphur this afternoon in Hancock, MD. It was very fresh-looking, hence brightly colored. I don't think these overwinter as adults, and besides, an overwintering adult wouldn't have looked fresh. Could this butterfly have emerged too soon? -- June Tveekrem Columbia, MD [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 09:48:52 -0500 Hi June, Actually, early spring Orange Sulphurs are not brightly colored but are rather small, pale (compared to summer individuals), and practically indistinguishable from early spring Clouded Sulphurs (which are also small and pale). Since what you saw was evidently distinctly orange, I am betting that it was actually a Sleepy Orange. The chrysalids of this species have been known to survive mild winters in Maryland, and adults will emerge in early spring. In spite of being a southern species, Sleepy Oranges appear in the mountainous areas of Maryland and West Virginia as frequently as in Southern Maryland in the spring. Many White and Sulphur species emerge through the winter in the South, so some warm January weather in Maryland will push some into emergence up here, but unfortunately the predominance of cold weather here will make them relatively inactive and short-lived. Dick Smith From: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of June Tveekrem Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:28 PM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [washbutterflies] Orange Sulphur I saw an Orange Sulphur this afternoon in Hancock, MD. It was very fresh-looking, hence brightly colored. I don't think these overwinter as adults, and besides, an overwintering adult wouldn't have looked fresh. Could this butterfly have emerged too soon? -- June Tveekrem Columbia, MD [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Feb. 23: Annual WABC Butterfly Gardening Talk From: "larthemisarthemis" <rsimm32573 AT aol.com> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 02:04:35 -0000 Thursday, Feb. 23, 7:30 PM Topic: Gardening for Wildlife and Winged Wonders! Speaker: Lisa Bierer-Garrett, Patuxent Wildlife Research Refuge This meeting of the Washington Area Butterfly Club is free and open to the public. Long Branch Nature Center 625 South Carlin Springs Road Arlington, Virginia Naturalist Lisa Bierer-Garrett, one of the original members of WABC, will speak on butterfly and wildlife gardening for your backyard. Lisa, a Calvert County, MD resident and longtime butterfly-garden caretaker for several county parks, will discuss how to look at your space and plan a great garden that is attractive to pollinators, birds and other critters. She tends towards using native plants and developing native habitats that are attractive to monarchs. She has been tagging monarchs for more than a decade with Monarch Watch. Join Lisa to discuss what you most want to attract to your backyard and she will try to work out a great garden plan! Prior to being the Wildlife Images Bookstore manager at Patuxent Wildlife Research Refuge in Laurel, MD, Lisa was owner of the Bowie Wild Bird Center (closed) and a naturalist for Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission (M-NCPPC)/Prince George's County Parks. Directions from I-395: Take the SEMINARY RD exit- EXIT 4. Turn onto SEMINARY RD going northwest. Turn RIGHT onto CARLIN SPRINGS RD / VA-716. Long Branch Nature Center is about 0.8 miles on the right behind a doctors' office building near a hospital. The Long Branch sign (which may be poorly lit on at least one side) and driveway are just before the office building. Follow the long driveway past the offices' parking garage, through the woods, to the Nature Center parking lot. Walk up the incline to the Nature Center. ADC Northern Virginia Map 16, G-8. Directions from Washington Beltway (I-495): Drive EAST on ROUTE 50 about 5 miles. Turn right (SOUTH) onto CARLIN SPRINGS ROAD. The Nature Center is about 1/3 mile on the left behind a doctor's office building; the sign and driveway are just beyond the building (just before the building for those driving NORTH from COLUMBIA PIKE). Drive past the office building and down the wooded driveway to the Nature Center parking lot. Rob Simmons ------------------------------------ Subject: FW: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: Mourning Cloak From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:03:46 -0500 From: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Borchelt Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:50 PM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [washbutterflies] RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: Mourning Cloak My personal belief is that you are increasingly likely to see mourning cloaks the greater the likelihood is that sap has begun to rise. Having sort of kept an eye on sightings (published, and my own) over the past couple of years, it seems that even when we have a string of warm days in late December or early January there are seldom any sightings, but in mid-late February there often are. I suspect this is because early anglewings nectar on sap oozing out of winter-damaged twigs and bud exudate; if sap isn't flowing, there is no oozing, so no reason to break winter dormancy. On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Smith, Richard H. > wrote: Randy, I don't routinely keep records of winter sightings, but with this January warm spell it will be interesting to read if anyone else sees butterflies out now. Dick From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Arundinaria Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 1:55 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: Mourning Cloak Dick, Just wondering if the last day of January might be a record for the sighting of a Mourning Cloak on wing. I know that they are prone to flights in the balmy days of late Winter. However, this is the earliest that I believe I have seen them in a season. Just curious. Saw an individual today before noon. Randy Pheobus Native Grassland Conservacy -- Rick Borchelt College Park, MD preferred personal email: rickb |AT| nasw |DOT| org http://leplog.wordpress.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: Re: Mourning Cloak From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:24:57 -0500 Randy, I don't routinely keep records of winter sightings, but with this January warm spell it will be interesting to read if anyone else sees butterflies out now. Dick From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Arundinaria Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 1:55 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: Mourning Cloak Dick, Just wondering if the last day of January might be a record for the sighting of a Mourning Cloak on wing. I know that they are prone to flights in the balmy days of late Winter. However, this is the earliest that I believe I have seen them in a season. Just curious. Saw an individual today before noon. Randy Pheobus Native Grassland Conservacy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: Mourning Cloak From: Arundinaria <RestoreHabitat AT aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:55:03 -0500 (EST) Dick, Just wondering if the last day of January might be a record for the sighting of a Mourning Cloak on wing. I know that they are prone to flights in the balmy days of late Winter. However, this is the earliest that I believe I have seen them in a season. Just curious. Saw an individual today before noon. Randy Pheobus Native Grassland Conservacy ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: Support the Meadow Project From: "Bill Z" <devilsadvacat AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:38:20 -0000 https://themeadowproject.com/about-the-book-purchase/ I can tell by listening to this short promo, that Catherine Zimmerman is pretty smart. https://themeadowproject.com/about-the-book-purchase/ But when you click on this link for Amazon.com, the Amazon webpage for this book says it is not available on the kindle. But half way down the Amazon page there is a prompt to: "Tell the Publisher! I'd like to read this book on Kindle " My wife is the kindle fanatic in the family and I am just learning about it. I wonder if this is the best way to get this book into kindle format ? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KindleFireUsers/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kindlekorner/ I will pose this same question to the kindle groups --------------- http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ShelterFundraising/ And it just occurred to me that ....... I wonder if an animal shelter wanted to give an electronic book to everyone who attended a fundraising event, if there is an easy way to do that ? I am also going to mention this in the wild bird group I help moderate after I ask the kindle groups these questions. Bill Zardus http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WingedFriends/ --- In VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com, "janetalbarran" wrote: > > An FYI for those of you who are interested - there is a film in the works about the importance of meadows and it is in need of some additional funding. I think it would be a fabulous resource for environmental educators, and I'd love to see more schools incorporating meadows full of insects for children to study. > > For more information about Catherine Zimmerman, her book, Urban and Suburban Meadows, and her documentary project, you can go to: https://themeadowproject.com/ > > You can donate to the project here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1879713219/the-meadow-project > ------------------------------------ Subject: Support the Meadow Project From: "janetalbarran" <janetalbarran AT hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 18:55:46 -0000 An FYI for those of you who are interested - there is a film in the works about the importance of meadows and it is in need of some additional funding. I think it would be a fabulous resource for environmental educators, and I'd love to see more schools incorporating meadows full of insects for children to study. For more information about Catherine Zimmerman, her book, Urban and Suburban Meadows, and her documentary project, you can go to: https://themeadowproject.com/ You can donate to the project here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1879713219/the-meadow-project ------------------------------------ Subject: Spring planning -- Hessel's Hairstreak and Atlantic White-Cedar From: Rick Borchelt <rborchelt AT gmail.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:18:59 -0500 I'm currently plotting a strategy to determine whether Hessel's hairstreak is still extant in Maryland. As most of you know, Hessel's was only described about 50 years ago, having been assumed an aberrant form of juniper hairstreak, which it closely resembles in form and phenology. Hessel's caterpillars, however, feeds only on Atlantic white-cedar, great stands of which in tidal waters of the Eastern and Western shore were all but decimated to supply the lumber trade with exceptionally rot-resistant cedar shakes and shingles, among other timber uses. Drainage and conversion to agricultural and residential landscapes have wiped out most of the rest. Active restoration efforts are underway in a number of known previous habitats, but Hessel's appears to require mature trees. Hessel's hairstreaks spend the great majority of their time in the canopies of these mature Atlantic white-cedars, reportedly coming down to visit flowers (Vaccinium in the first brood, Clethra and Cephalanthus in the second) and moist sand early in the morning and late in the day. It is infrequently but regularly reported from white-cedar stands in the NJ Pine Barrens. I'm asking readers to help me identify any remaining (even small) stands where there are 10 or more mature Atlantic white-cedar trees. Mature trees will be 40 feet or so in height, and good stands used to occur in the Pocomoke drainage and other areas of the lower Eastern Shore, as well as along the Severn and its tributaries on the Western Shore, and in lesser numbers elsewhere in the state. In its natural condition, it forms almost pure, dense stands of even age. I'd appreciate any intelligence (off-line) on remaining white-cedar stands to check out in the 2012 flight season. We might schedule a LepTrek field trip or two to explore them if there is sufficient interest. Many thanks! -- Rick Borchelt College Park, MD preferred personal email:  rickb |AT| nasw |DOT| org http://leplog.wordpress.com ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: More expensive than State Park Access From: "Marc Imlay" <ialm AT erols.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:31:11 -0500 If an access fee were voluntary, what % of visitors would contribute? Marc -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of LarryL Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 2:53 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] More expensive than State Park Access By having a per person fee, it now costs more for a group to visit a wildlife management area than it does to visit a state park. I wonder if the state will eventually charge more for out-of-state visitors than it does for Virginians... like they do for hunting and fishing permits. I know of at least one person who bought a state fishing license instead of the access permit... but will probably not do much fishing. Larry . ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: More expensive than State Park Access From: Alonso Abugattas <aabugattas AT arlingtonva.us> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 21:13:35 +0000 Here's some more info I've gotten in regards to the master naturalists (volunteers) who are inquiring on the same issues and others. I also received some more info on why buying a fishing license is even more worthwhile to WMA's so please read the following. Several different people are working on exemptions for volunteer projects, groups, etc but no word as yet. FYI: "Something I also saw was that we should encourage members to buy fishing licenses rather than use permits. See below. Why wouldn't I just buy a freshwater fishing or hunting license? That would be an excellent way gain the access privileges and provide additional funds to help manage and maintain the area. Annual Access Permit costs residents the same amount as an annual freshwater fishing or hunting license, but when you purchase a freshwater fishing or hunting license DGIF will receive more money due to the federal match on those licenses. Currently the federal match for a hunting license is $12 per license sold and the federal match for a freshwater fishing license is $7 per license sold. To maximize your support of WMAs, we encourage you to purchase a freshwater fishing or hunting license. This approach will not only generate additional funds for the agency, but will provide you with the opportunity to freshwater fish or hunt statewide for a year. Note that you must pass the Hunter Education class to purchase a hunting license. Hunter Education classes are taught statewide free of charge. On a personal note, I have never grumbled about buying a fishing license when I go travelling because they help support wildlife management in the states I visit to view the wildlife." and this separate email: "I received word a few minutes ago regarding the Access Permit for WMA or DGIF-owned lake activities relative to the Virginia Master Naturalist volunteers and trainees/students. Please pass this information on to any and all that are needing answers to these questions statewide: Blanket/Group permits for VMN = There are no provisions for group permits. Individual Permits = As of now there are no exemptions for VMN volunteers or trainees enrolled in current curriculums. Thus, every and all VMN persons entering a WMA or DGIF-owned lake for work, field trips, surveys, or otherwise will need to have on them either an Access Permit; current hunting, fishing, trapping license, or current boat registration. As I had indicated, these "unique" situations involving volunteers (not just VMN volunteers, even our own Complimentary Workforce Volunteers), groups volunteering to help with habitat, graduate students doing work on WMA's, etc. have been brought up for discussion. Not sure where things are at relative to the aforementioned situations, but as of today, I've provided the Agency's position on your questions. As I hear more on down the road I'll be sure to communicate them to you and others. Another thought...it might be worthwhile, and appropriate, for the State Coordinator for the Virginia Master Naturalist Program, a program in which VDGIF is one of the five sponsors/stakeholders, write a letter to our Chief Operations Officer, Matt Koch, requesting an exemption for VMN volunteers and trainees conducting work and field trips on WMA's and DGIF-owned lakes. It's worth a shot. Anyway, stay tuned!" Just wanted to let you know that this is coming up for discussion on many sides (as are all the new legislation for "dangerous" wildlife and pet ownership). I bet that something will give as to how things will be handled for other visitors to Wildlife management Areas who are hunters, fishermen, or others who also buy the licenses/pay taxes to support these areas. Alonso From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of LarryL Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 2:53 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] More expensive than State Park Access By having a per person fee, it now costs more for a group to visit a wildlife management area than it does to visit a state park. I wonder if the state will eventually charge more for out-of-state visitors than it does for Virginians... like they do for hunting and fishing permits. I know of at least one person who bought a state fishing license instead of the access permit... but will probably not do much fishing. Larry . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: More expensive than State Park Access From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:53:47 -0500 The Virginia freshwater fishing annual license fee for Virginia residents appears to be the same as the WMA annual access fee (resident or non-resident) - $23. For non-residents, the fishing license is double(ouch) - $47 (see fee details at: http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/fishing/regulations/licenses.asp ) The WMA annual access fee ($23) is actually less than the annual Virginia State Park pass fee, which is $66 (see VA state park fees at http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/parkfees.shtml ). However, for a one-day visit to a state park for a car full of people, you are certainly saving money for everyone by only having to pay the vehicle parking fee at the entrance booth. Dick Smith From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of LarryL Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 2:53 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] More expensive than State Park Access By having a per person fee, it now costs more for a group to visit a wildlife management area than it does to visit a state park. I wonder if the state will eventually charge more for out-of-state visitors than it does for Virginians... like they do for hunting and fishing permits. I know of at least one person who bought a state fishing license instead of the access permit... but will probably not do much fishing. Larry . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: More expensive than State Park Access From: "LarryL" <birder6 AT juno.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 19:52:33 -0000 By having a per person fee, it now costs more for a group to visit a wildlife management area than it does to visit a state park. I wonder if the state will eventually charge more for out-of-state visitors than it does for Virginians... like they do for hunting and fishing permits. I know of at least one person who bought a state fishing license instead of the access permit... but will probably not do much fishing. Larry . ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: [washbutterflies] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:29:04 -0500 Harry, Yes, confrontation with naturalist non-hunters on this issue will be inevitable, probably as soon as this spring. The Virginia Department of Inland Fish and Game has the following response at their FAQ website at http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/access-permit/faqs/ on the new permit process: "How will this be enforced? DGIF's Conservation Police Officers routinely patrol WMAs and DGIF-owned public lakes and will ask anyone age 17 years of age or older to see their Access Permit or valid Virginia hunting, freshwater fishing, or trapping license or Virginia boat registration." I wonder if VDGIF has any idea at this point yet about the popularity of places like the Thompson's WMA Trillium Trail to non-hunters and, by the same token, the non-hunters' obliviousness in Virginia to the fact that Virginia has now (in 2012) categorized their observation pursuits in WMAs as a state regulated activity? There certainly will be more news on this. My solution would be for all naturalists to deluge VDGIF with the $23 annual fees for visiting WMAs to make our numbers and voice known, but that probably won't happen. Also, gee, the decision to make post facto decisions to publish, after collecting for say personal interest, not covered by the regulation, seems to make the regulation unenforceable. That is, if you don't express an interest in doing a study beforehand (by applying for a permit), how can they ever prove that that was your intent? Also, if your application was denied for some reason, there is nothing that stops you from still doing it out of personal curiosity. I'm not sure what was intended to be regulated here? In practice, it seems more like a state-sanctioned process to determine what will be legal to publish (ha, starting to sound like a constitutional issue!). Dick From: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pavulaan AT aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 7:48 AM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [washbutterflies] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee This new Wildlife Management Area fee will become a public relations embarrassment when wildflower enthusiasts are confronted by wildlife officials asking for access permits up along the Trillium Trail. If you think this regulation is bad, try this one: In Virginia, if you are conducting a formal study of any kind, on biota, even on your own private property(!), you are required to fill out paperwork and apply for a $40 two-year permit to conduct your study. This includes not only sampling biota as part of a study, but also catch (or net) and release studies, educational studies, and virtually anything that would be published. NABA counts are reportedly included in this, though I can't see how LOOKING at wildlife would require a wildlife research permit. YET, collecting for "personal use" (i.e. hobby collectors) are NOT required to obtain such permits! I confirmed this with Virginia wildlife officials. Go figure. I did find an apparent loophole in this policy, though: If I collect butterflies in a Virginia Wildlife Management Area to add specimens to a collection without intent of publishing anything, and don't require a permit; but later on decide to publish something, then I don't need to get a retroactive permit. Not yet at least! Top this off with the DC law requiring trapped wildlife such as rats to be relocated essentially outside the District. Not only rats but rat "families". Good luck trying to sell Virginia on this! Harry Pavulaan -----Original Message----- From: washbutterflies To: washbutterflies Sent: Mon, Jan 16, 2012 12:13 pm Subject: [washbutterflies] Digest Number 1584 There are 3 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1a. Re: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: Smith, Richard H. 1b. Re: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: lance biechele 1c. Re: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: Alonso Abugattas Messages ________________________________________________________________________ 1a. Re: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee Posted by: "Smith, Richard H." Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu richardhsmith2002 Date: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:43 pm ((PST)) Alonso, Thanks for the background. I read the requirement at first as a bit of a shock. I am not against raising more funds for these areas, but I think the ultimate outcome as this regulation becomes enforced is that far fewer people will take the opportunity to become acquainted with and appreciate many of the truly unique natural habitat areas tucked away inside these WMAs. Visits by the general public will be even more confined to manicured picnic and activity areas where people will still feel justified to pay the entrance fees for the maintenance of the facilities there. I do not feel confident that extra funding sources but less general public appreciation for WMAs will help to sustain habitat conservation for non-game as well as game wildlife at these areas in the long run. Washington, DC areas residents must now realize that this new regulation requires each person now to obtain a $6.00 per visit permit (up to the annual permit fee of $24.00) to visit the trillium trail at the G. Thompson WMA in Fauquier County. In Maryland, I am not aware of any public area in the state so far that requires a permit and fee merely for hiking access. Most of the Maryland State Parks charge entrance fees, but only for vehicle and sometimes bike access. None of the Maryland State Forests or WMAs have access or entrance fees. I am not aware of National Parks or Wildlife Refuges in Maryland that require access permits either. I think the fee at Blackwater is only to drive their interior loop. Dick Smith -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alonso Abugattas Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:42 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee As far as I know, the access permit or having a hunting/fishing license requirement only applies to VA Wildlife Management Areas (although I think most VA State Parks (and MD too), National Wildlife Refuges like Blackwater in MD, and National Parks already have entrance fees in place already). For now most MD WMA's I think are free although a few are closed to the public during the hunting season. From talking to VA park folks, they say that the sales of hunting/fishing licenses have gone down and that's what pays for these properties. During these economic times, they felt they needed to do something to maintain the management of the sites. They also felt it was time for anyone using them to pay for the privilege instead of just some footing the bill for everyone. There was some public comment period and they did send surveys and survey any visitors to the sites (I replied to both types of surveys for example). There's been talk about some kind of tax or user fee to raise more funds for various natural sites nationwide, but for now only a few things like hunting and fishing equipment have been taxed. It's sad to say but I think others like MD will soon follow suit with "access permits." Soon, only our local parks will be free unfortunately. As a park employee having worked for various systems in my career, I find this sad, but much more likely every year. Few of the things like programs and such which we did for free in the past are free now. It will only get worse I fear. Of course this means fewer people being able to afford nature experiences and only a few priviliged folks getting the environmental education that should be free for everyone. I can however understand the need for different parks to raise money to keep them running as well. Again, I fear the future will be worse all the time and these problems are not going to get resolved easily. Alonso ________________________________ From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu] Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:55 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee Greg, I am a resident of Maryland, but I am curious as to how the Commonwealth of Virginia has now seen fit to implement such a policy in areas that have been open to the general public for probably at least the last half century. I can see hunting, fishing, and boating permits, but honestly, even hiking?!! This now makes these areas even more inaccessible to the general public than private property. With private property, permission only needs to be granted by the landowner, and there is usually not the need to purchased the right in addition. Does the policy apply to Virginia State Forests too? Luckily, Virginia still has National Parks and Forests. Dick Smith Columbia, MD From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com> [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:50 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com> Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee The Virginia DGIF now requires an Access Permit for Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) and public fishing lakes effective January 1, 2012. Particulars are described here: http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/access-permit/ Those holding valid fishing, hunting or boating permits will not need to purchase this new access permit as described at the DGIF site. The permit appears to be required for any activity at DGIF managed facilities (including birdwatching, insect photography, hiking or picnicing). Greg Davis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: lance biechele <ltb0076 AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 06:35:00 -0800 (PST) That's great Marc,    Is this an endorsement for the State to raise monies?  I thought that the average citizen was induced to pay for these park "extras" with the excuse of an entrance fee?     Maybe the problem is  that PhD's are required for such prestigious positions of "protecting" Nature?    Within the last five years, both Assateague and Chincoteague NWR have found sufficient funding to build new Visitor's Centers and asphalt, once pristine woodland roads, over to allow bicyclists to run through the parks.    My argument is that whenever the public permits such fee increases the result is ALWAYS more fee increases!    Sincerely, Lance     ________________________________ From: Marc Imlay To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:36 AM Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee   Has a study been done on the number of people who get out in natural areas and the amount of funding available for tools to protect Nature such as Program Open Space, Conservation Easements, Pollution control, non-native invasive speces control, erosion control, Smart Growth, stopping overharvest, park staff, and saving endangered species? Marc Imlay, PhD Conservation biologist, Board member of the Mid-Atlantic Invasive Plant Council, Vice president of the Maryland Native Plant Society, Chair of the Biodiversity and Habitat Stewardship Committee for the Maryland Chapter of the Sierra Club. -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 11:36 AM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee I don't really have an issue with paying this new fee, as most of the nature areas I visit including VA State Parks, National Parks, Battlefields and National Wildlife Refuges do have a fee. However, I don't like the way the fee is collected, as you can't drop in to the WMA or fishing lake and conveniently pay the fee upon entrance as you can at an other area. You theoretically can pay upon arrival via smartphone, but my smartphone doesn't work up at Thompson, for example. The fee is also a per-person fee, not a per automobile fee, which is unique for nature area access. --- In VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com, Alonso Abugattas wrote: > > I agree with all of you regarding how this hurts the general public in appreciating the resources in any of the parks which charge an entry fee, whether Great Falls or Thompson's, and was hoping I had made that plain in my email. I was stating the reasoning as I had heard of if as to why they felt this was necessary. Believe me, I would prefer all the parks, environmental education programs, and resources be free for anyone to access. I hope we don't get to the point where only those who can afford these things will be the ones who benefit while everyone else never does. I've been fighting to keep that from happening in every park system I've ever been associated with but to no avail. I hope we can at least convince the powers that be to allow some exceptions to those charges, and not just every once in a while like National Parks are doing but at least for all educational groups/efforts. We'll see though. Again, I was not so much in any support for any of these occurrence! s but explaining what I had heard as the reasoning for them for happening. Thanks. > > > > Alonso > > ________________________________ > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on > behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT ...] > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:43 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Cc: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > > > Alonso, > > Thanks for the background. I read the requirement at first as a bit of a shock. I am not against raising more funds for these areas, but I think the ultimate outcome as this regulation becomes enforced is that far fewer people will take the opportunity to become acquainted with and appreciate many of the truly unique natural habitat areas tucked away inside these WMAs. Visits by the general public will be even more confined to manicured picnic and activity areas where people will still feel justified to pay the entrance fees for the maintenance of the facilities there. I do not feel confident that extra funding sources but less general public appreciation for WMAs will help to sustain habitat conservation for non-game as well as game wildlife at these areas in the long run. Washington, DC areas residents must now realize that this new regulation requires each person now to obtain a $6.00 per visit permit (up to the annual permit fee of $24.00) to visit the trillium trail a! t the G. Thompson WMA in Fauquier County. > > In Maryland, I am not aware of any public area in the state so far that requires a permit and fee merely for hiking access. Most of the Maryland State Parks charge entrance fees, but only for vehicle and sometimes bike access. None of the Maryland State Forests or WMAs have access or entrance fees. I am not aware of National Parks or Wildlife Refuges in Maryland that require access permits either. I think the fee at Blackwater is only to drive their interior loop. > > Dick Smith > > -----Original Message----- > From: > VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com ps.com>] On Behalf Of Alonso Abugattas > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:42 PM > To: > VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > As far as I know, the access permit or having a hunting/fishing license requirement only applies to VA Wildlife Management Areas (although I think most VA State Parks (and MD too), National Wildlife Refuges like Blackwater in MD, and National Parks already have entrance fees in place already). For now most MD WMA's I think are free although a few are closed to the public during the hunting season. From talking to VA park folks, they say that the sales of hunting/fishing licenses have gone down and that's what pays for these properties. During these economic times, they felt they needed to do something to maintain the management of the sites. They also felt it was time for anyone using them to pay for the privilege instead of just some footing the bill for everyone. There was some public comment period and they did send surveys and survey any visitors to the sites (I replied to both types of surveys for example). There's been talk about some kind of tax or user fee to raise! more funds for various natural sites nationwide, but for now only a few things like hunting and fishing equipment have been taxed. It's sad to say but I think others like MD will soon follow suit with "access permits." Soon, only our local parks will be free unfortunately. As a park employee having worked for various systems in my career, I find this sad, but much more likely every year. Few of the things like programs and such which we did for free in the past are free now. It will only get worse I fear. Of course this means fewer people being able to afford nature experiences and only a few priviliged folks getting the environmental education that should be free for everyone. I can however understand the need for different parks to raise money to keep them running as well. Again, I fear the future will be worse all the time and these problems are not going to get resolved easily. > > Alonso > > ________________________________ > From: > VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > ] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. > [Richard.Smith AT ...] > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:55 PM > To: > VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > Greg, > > I am a resident of Maryland, but I am curious as to how the Commonwealth of Virginia has now seen fit to implement such a policy in areas that have been open to the general public for probably at least the last half century. I can see hunting, fishing, and boating permits, but honestly, even hiking?!! This now makes these areas even more inaccessible to the general public than private property. With private property, permission only needs to be granted by the landowner, and there is usually not the need to purchased the right in addition. Does the policy apply to Virginia State Forests too? Luckily, Virginia still has National Parks and Forests. > > Dick Smith > Columbia, MD > > From: > VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com< > mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com ps.com>] On Behalf Of Greg > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:50 PM > To: > VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com< > mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > The Virginia DGIF now requires an Access Permit for Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) and public fishing lakes effective January 1, 2012. Particulars are described here: > > http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/access-permit/ > > Those holding valid fishing, hunting or boating permits will not need to purchase this new access permit as described at the DGIF site. > > The permit appears to be required for any activity at DGIF managed facilities (including birdwatching, insect photography, hiking or picnicing). > > Greg Davis > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: "Marc Imlay" <ialm AT erols.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 08:36:02 -0500 Has a study been done on the number of people who get out in natural areas and the amount of funding available for tools to protect Nature such as Program Open Space, Conservation Easements, Pollution control, non-native invasive speces control, erosion control, Smart Growth, stopping overharvest, park staff, and saving endangered species? Marc Imlay, PhD Conservation biologist, Board member of the Mid-Atlantic Invasive Plant Council, Vice president of the Maryland Native Plant Society, Chair of the Biodiversity and Habitat Stewardship Committee for the Maryland Chapter of the Sierra Club. -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 11:36 AM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee I don't really have an issue with paying this new fee, as most of the nature areas I visit including VA State Parks, National Parks, Battlefields and National Wildlife Refuges do have a fee. However, I don't like the way the fee is collected, as you can't drop in to the WMA or fishing lake and conveniently pay the fee upon entrance as you can at an other area. You theoretically can pay upon arrival via smartphone, but my smartphone doesn't work up at Thompson, for example. The fee is also a per-person fee, not a per automobile fee, which is unique for nature area access. --- In VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com, Alonso Abugattas wrote: > > I agree with all of you regarding how this hurts the general public in appreciating the resources in any of the parks which charge an entry fee, whether Great Falls or Thompson's, and was hoping I had made that plain in my email. I was stating the reasoning as I had heard of if as to why they felt this was necessary. Believe me, I would prefer all the parks, environmental education programs, and resources be free for anyone to access. I hope we don't get to the point where only those who can afford these things will be the ones who benefit while everyone else never does. I've been fighting to keep that from happening in every park system I've ever been associated with but to no avail. I hope we can at least convince the powers that be to allow some exceptions to those charges, and not just every once in a while like National Parks are doing but at least for all educational groups/efforts. We'll see though. Again, I was not so much in any support for any of these occurrence! s but explaining what I had heard as the reasoning for them for happening. Thanks. > > > > Alonso > > ________________________________ > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on > behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT ...] > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:43 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Cc: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > > > Alonso, > > Thanks for the background. I read the requirement at first as a bit of a shock. I am not against raising more funds for these areas, but I think the ultimate outcome as this regulation becomes enforced is that far fewer people will take the opportunity to become acquainted with and appreciate many of the truly unique natural habitat areas tucked away inside these WMAs. Visits by the general public will be even more confined to manicured picnic and activity areas where people will still feel justified to pay the entrance fees for the maintenance of the facilities there. I do not feel confident that extra funding sources but less general public appreciation for WMAs will help to sustain habitat conservation for non-game as well as game wildlife at these areas in the long run. Washington, DC areas residents must now realize that this new regulation requires each person now to obtain a $6.00 per visit permit (up to the annual permit fee of $24.00) to visit the trillium trail a! t the G. Thompson WMA in Fauquier County. > > In Maryland, I am not aware of any public area in the state so far that requires a permit and fee merely for hiking access. Most of the Maryland State Parks charge entrance fees, but only for vehicle and sometimes bike access. None of the Maryland State Forests or WMAs have access or entrance fees. I am not aware of National Parks or Wildlife Refuges in Maryland that require access permits either. I think the fee at Blackwater is only to drive their interior loop. > > Dick Smith > > -----Original Message----- > From: > VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com ps.com>] On Behalf Of Alonso Abugattas > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:42 PM > To: > VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > As far as I know, the access permit or having a hunting/fishing license requirement only applies to VA Wildlife Management Areas (although I think most VA State Parks (and MD too), National Wildlife Refuges like Blackwater in MD, and National Parks already have entrance fees in place already). For now most MD WMA's I think are free although a few are closed to the public during the hunting season. From talking to VA park folks, they say that the sales of hunting/fishing licenses have gone down and that's what pays for these properties. During these economic times, they felt they needed to do something to maintain the management of the sites. They also felt it was time for anyone using them to pay for the privilege instead of just some footing the bill for everyone. There was some public comment period and they did send surveys and survey any visitors to the sites (I replied to both types of surveys for example). There's been talk about some kind of tax or user fee to raise! more funds for various natural sites nationwide, but for now only a few things like hunting and fishing equipment have been taxed. It's sad to say but I think others like MD will soon follow suit with "access permits." Soon, only our local parks will be free unfortunately. As a park employee having worked for various systems in my career, I find this sad, but much more likely every year. Few of the things like programs and such which we did for free in the past are free now. It will only get worse I fear. Of course this means fewer people being able to afford nature experiences and only a few priviliged folks getting the environmental education that should be free for everyone. I can however understand the need for different parks to raise money to keep them running as well. Again, I fear the future will be worse all the time and these problems are not going to get resolved easily. > > Alonso > > ________________________________ > From: > VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > ] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. > [Richard.Smith AT ...] > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:55 PM > To: > VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > Greg, > > I am a resident of Maryland, but I am curious as to how the Commonwealth of Virginia has now seen fit to implement such a policy in areas that have been open to the general public for probably at least the last half century. I can see hunting, fishing, and boating permits, but honestly, even hiking?!! This now makes these areas even more inaccessible to the general public than private property. With private property, permission only needs to be granted by the landowner, and there is usually not the need to purchased the right in addition. Does the policy apply to Virginia State Forests too? Luckily, Virginia still has National Parks and Forests. > > Dick Smith > Columbia, MD > > From: > VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com< > mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com ps.com>] On Behalf Of Greg > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:50 PM > To: > VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com< > mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > The Virginia DGIF now requires an Access Permit for Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) and public fishing lakes effective January 1, 2012. Particulars are described here: > > http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/access-permit/ > > Those holding valid fishing, hunting or boating permits will not need to purchase this new access permit as described at the DGIF site. > > The permit appears to be required for any activity at DGIF managed facilities (including birdwatching, insect photography, hiking or picnicing). > > Greg Davis > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:06:32 -0500 Alonso, Aha! Thanks! That information and insight is very helpful. Since WMAs are really in a different funding category from state parks and forests but of interest to nature-lovers as well as sportsmen, the nature-lovers should be helping to fund the management. In fact, if the access fee becomes a significant fraction of the revenue source for these areas, we could have a greater voice in the management of these areas. Thus, I would encourage all naturalists with an interest in these areas to purchase the annual user's permit (for $23.00). I do not wish to cast this as a battle with the hunting interest either because their revenue from licenses is a major factor, and also some of the most diverse vegetative and vertebrate/invertebrate areas are those in which the deer population is thinned to more natural levels. I do believe that a more tolerant perspective is possible between sportsmen and naturalists if each group can recognize the other as helping to support the habitat through their own means of funding. The greatest conflict can arise during hunting season, and then I think it would be best, especially for safety, if the naturalists stayed clear and visited elsewhere during that period. Dick Smith -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alonso Abugattas Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:59 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee I agree that it discourages some people from trying to gain access and again wish that all parks would be equally accessible to everyone. The coffers for state parks, other public lands, and WMA's, as far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, are separate, so an all inclusive fee wouldn't work unless there was an agreement on how to divide the money. They are not all equal in how they get funds from taxes and WMA's are excluded from most tax support. Right now my understanding is that WMA's are only supported through Pittman-Robertson excise taxes on ammo/etc and hunting/fishing licenses as well. They want to get more monies in order manage those lands since they do not get this tax support but rely on these other user fees for most of their funding. I have spoken to some hunters/fishermen (not all and not trying to be divisive) that would actually be happy if other folks would not visit and interfere with their pursuits (scaring game, wanting other manangement practices for non-game wildlife, etc). Despite agreements with many environmental groups on how to manage certain lands for something other than game, they sometimes see others as freeloaders who do not really support the overall management efforts but rather just benefit from the fees of others for their own specific reasons. They do not see sometimes how interconnected the natural world really is. Again, this is certainly not all or even a majority, but I bet they had some influence on getting these fees installed. I hope that some way of by-passing the fees are established for different groups and for certain reasons, but I think this will probably spread to other states and has already happened in others. If I'm mistaken in what I've wrote, please do educate me. Thanks. Alonso ________________________________ From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu] Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:35 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee The imposition of access fees is something new and startling to me; however, yes, I do not have any qualms either about the payment of extra fees to support the preservation of these areas if that is now economically necessary. I am more concerned though about the inequity and potential loss of public interest in WMAs in VA (and the unique habitats that many have to offer) by non-hunters and non-fishermen because it is only the WMA state lands that have such individual walk-on access fees now. Since there are so many natural areas to choose from for a daily outing, many nature-lovers will simply avoid the WMAs because of the access fee and visit other state or federal lands. For these, there is no access fee and only an entrance fee if you are taking a vehicle into specific areas. I would be more in favor of a minor access fee and permit to visit ALL Virginia state public lands. Of course, the daily access fee could be waived if you paid the daily vehicle entrance fee, but each adult occupant of the car would have to pay the access fee. If park and state forest visitors as well as WMA visitors were all paying a fee, the charge per person could probably be made much lower and still produce substantial revenue for the state. By this policy, no state land would receive the negative discrimination that the VA WMAs have now, and all state lands would remain equal in the general public interest. By the current policy, it seems like Virginia is actually discouraging bird, flower, and bug lovers from visiting WMAs and focusing WMAs even more for use only by hunters and fishermen who are already covered by separate license fees. Dick Smith Columbia, MD From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 11:36 AM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee I don't really have an issue with paying this new fee, as most of the nature areas I visit including VA State Parks, National Parks, Battlefields and National Wildlife Refuges do have a fee. However, I don't like the way the fee is collected, as you can't drop in to the WMA or fishing lake and conveniently pay the fee upon entrance as you can at an other area. You theoretically can pay upon arrival via smartphone, but my smartphone doesn't work up at Thompson, for example. The fee is also a per-person fee, not a per automobile fee, which is unique for nature area access. --- In VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com, Alonso Abugattas wrote: > > I agree with all of you regarding how this hurts the general public in appreciating the resources in any of the parks which charge an entry fee, whether Great Falls or Thompson's, and was hoping I had made that plain in my email. I was stating the reasoning as I had heard of if as to why they felt this was necessary. Believe me, I would prefer all the parks, environmental education programs, and resources be free for anyone to access. I hope we don't get to the point where only those who can afford these things will be the ones who benefit while everyone else never does. I've been fighting to keep that from happening in every park system I've ever been associated with but to no avail. I hope we can at least convince the powers that be to allow some exceptions to those charges, and not just every once in a while like National Parks are doing but at least for all educational groups/efforts. We'll see though. Again, I was not so much in any support for any of these occurrences but explaining what I had heard as the reasoning for them for happening. Thanks. > > > > Alonso > > ________________________________ > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT ...] > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:43 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Cc: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > > > Alonso, > > Thanks for the background. I read the requirement at first as a bit of a shock. I am not against raising more funds for these areas, but I think the ultimate outcome as this regulation becomes enforced is that far fewer people will take the opportunity to become acquainted with and appreciate many of the truly unique natural habitat areas tucked away inside these WMAs. Visits by the general public will be even more confined to manicured picnic and activity areas where people will still feel justified to pay the entrance fees for the maintenance of the facilities there. I do not feel confident that extra funding sources but less general public appreciation for WMAs will help to sustain habitat conservation for non-game as well as game wildlife at these areas in the long run. Washington, DC areas residents must now realize that this new regulation requires each person now to obtain a $6.00 per visit permit (up to the annual permit fee of $24.00) to visit the trillium trail at the G. Thompson WMA in Fauquier County. > > In Maryland, I am not aware of any public area in the state so far that requires a permit and fee merely for hiking access. Most of the Maryland State Parks charge entrance fees, but only for vehicle and sometimes bike access. None of the Maryland State Forests or WMAs have access or entrance fees. I am not aware of National Parks or Wildlife Refuges in Maryland that require access permits either. I think the fee at Blackwater is only to drive their interior loop. > > Dick Smith > > -----Original Message----- > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alonso Abugattas > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:42 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > As far as I know, the access permit or having a hunting/fishing license requirement only applies to VA Wildlife Management Areas (although I think most VA State Parks (and MD too), National Wildlife Refuges like Blackwater in MD, and National Parks already have entrance fees in place already). For now most MD WMA's I think are free although a few are closed to the public during the hunting season. From talking to VA park folks, they say that the sales of hunting/fishing licenses have gone down and that's what pays for these properties. During these economic times, they felt they needed to do something to maintain the management of the sites. They also felt it was time for anyone using them to pay for the privilege instead of just some footing the bill for everyone. There was some public comment period and they did send surveys and survey any visitors to the sites (I replied to both types of surveys for example). There's been talk about some kind of tax or user fee to raise more funds for various natural sites nationwide, but for now only a few things like hunting and fishing equipment have been taxed. It's sad to say but I think others like MD will soon follow suit with "access permits." Soon, only our local parks will be free unfortunately. As a park employee having worked for various systems in my career, I find this sad, but much more likely every year. Few of the things like programs and such which we did for free in the past are free now. It will only get worse I fear. Of course this means fewer people being able to afford nature experiences and only a few priviliged folks getting the environmental education that should be free for everyone. I can however understand the need for different parks to raise money to keep them running as well. Again, I fear the future will be worse all the time and these problems are not going to get resolved easily. > > Alonso > > ________________________________ > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT ...] > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:55 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > Greg, > > I am a resident of Maryland, but I am curious as to how the Commonwealth of Virginia has now seen fit to implement such a policy in areas that have been open to the general public for probably at least the last half century. I can see hunting, fishing, and boating permits, but honestly, even hiking?!! This now makes these areas even more inaccessible to the general public than private property. With private property, permission only needs to be granted by the landowner, and there is usually not the need to purchased the right in addition. Does the policy apply to Virginia State Forests too? Luckily, Virginia still has National Parks and Forests. > > Dick Smith > Columbia, MD > > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:50 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > The Virginia DGIF now requires an Access Permit for Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) and public fishing lakes effective January 1, 2012. Particulars are described here: > > http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/access-permit/ > > Those holding valid fishing, hunting or boating permits will not need to purchase this new access permit as described at the DGIF site. > > The permit appears to be required for any activity at DGIF managed facilities (including birdwatching, insect photography, hiking or picnicing). > > Greg Davis > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Subject: RE: Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: Alonso Abugattas <aabugattas AT arlingtonva.us> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 19:58:39 +0000 I agree that it discourages some people from trying to gain access and again wish that all parks would be equally accessible to everyone. The coffers for state parks, other public lands, and WMA's, as far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, are separate, so an all inclusive fee wouldn't work unless there was an agreement on how to divide the money. They are not all equal in how they get funds from taxes and WMA's are excluded from most tax support. Right now my understanding is that WMA's are only supported through Pittman-Robertson excise taxes on ammo/etc and hunting/fishing licenses as well. They want to get more monies in order manage those lands since they do not get this tax support but rely on these other user fees for most of their funding. I have spoken to some hunters/fishermen (not all and not trying to be divisive) that would actually be happy if other folks would not visit and interfere with their pursuits (scaring game, wanting other manangement practices for non-game wildlife, etc). Despite agreements with many environmental groups on how to manage certain lands for something other than game, they sometimes see others as freeloaders who do not really support the overall management efforts but rather just benefit from the fees of others for their own specific reasons. They do not see sometimes how interconnected the natural world really is. Again, this is certainly not all or even a majority, but I bet they had some influence on getting these fees installed. I hope that some way of by-passing the fees are established for different groups and for certain reasons, but I think this will probably spread to other states and has already happened in others. If I'm mistaken in what I've wrote, please do educate me. Thanks. Alonso ________________________________ From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu] Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:35 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee The imposition of access fees is something new and startling to me; however, yes, I do not have any qualms either about the payment of extra fees to support the preservation of these areas if that is now economically necessary. I am more concerned though about the inequity and potential loss of public interest in WMAs in VA (and the unique habitats that many have to offer) by non-hunters and non-fishermen because it is only the WMA state lands that have such individual walk-on access fees now. Since there are so many natural areas to choose from for a daily outing, many nature-lovers will simply avoid the WMAs because of the access fee and visit other state or federal lands. For these, there is no access fee and only an entrance fee if you are taking a vehicle into specific areas. I would be more in favor of a minor access fee and permit to visit ALL Virginia state public lands. Of course, the daily access fee could be waived if you paid the daily vehicle entrance fee, but each adult occupant of the car would have to pay the access fee. If park and state forest visitors as well as WMA visitors were all paying a fee, the charge per person could probably be made much lower and still produce substantial revenue for the state. By this policy, no state land would receive the negative discrimination that the VA WMAs have now, and all state lands would remain equal in the general public interest. By the current policy, it seems like Virginia is actually discouraging bird, flower, and bug lovers from visiting WMAs and focusing WMAs even more for use only by hunters and fishermen who are already covered by separate license fees. Dick Smith Columbia, MD From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 11:36 AM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee I don't really have an issue with paying this new fee, as most of the nature areas I visit including VA State Parks, National Parks, Battlefields and National Wildlife Refuges do have a fee. However, I don't like the way the fee is collected, as you can't drop in to the WMA or fishing lake and conveniently pay the fee upon entrance as you can at an other area. You theoretically can pay upon arrival via smartphone, but my smartphone doesn't work up at Thompson, for example. The fee is also a per-person fee, not a per automobile fee, which is unique for nature area access. --- In VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com, Alonso Abugattas wrote: > > I agree with all of you regarding how this hurts the general public in appreciating the resources in any of the parks which charge an entry fee, whether Great Falls or Thompson's, and was hoping I had made that plain in my email. I was stating the reasoning as I had heard of if as to why they felt this was necessary. Believe me, I would prefer all the parks, environmental education programs, and resources be free for anyone to access. I hope we don't get to the point where only those who can afford these things will be the ones who benefit while everyone else never does. I've been fighting to keep that from happening in every park system I've ever been associated with but to no avail. I hope we can at least convince the powers that be to allow some exceptions to those charges, and not just every once in a while like National Parks are doing but at least for all educational groups/efforts. We'll see though. Again, I was not so much in any support for any of these occurrences but explaining what I had heard as the reasoning for them for happening. Thanks. > > > > Alonso > > ________________________________ > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT ...] > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:43 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Cc: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > > > Alonso, > > Thanks for the background. I read the requirement at first as a bit of a shock. I am not against raising more funds for these areas, but I think the ultimate outcome as this regulation becomes enforced is that far fewer people will take the opportunity to become acquainted with and appreciate many of the truly unique natural habitat areas tucked away inside these WMAs. Visits by the general public will be even more confined to manicured picnic and activity areas where people will still feel justified to pay the entrance fees for the maintenance of the facilities there. I do not feel confident that extra funding sources but less general public appreciation for WMAs will help to sustain habitat conservation for non-game as well as game wildlife at these areas in the long run. Washington, DC areas residents must now realize that this new regulation requires each person now to obtain a $6.00 per visit permit (up to the annual permit fee of $24.00) to visit the trillium trail at the G. Thompson WMA in Fauquier County. > > In Maryland, I am not aware of any public area in the state so far that requires a permit and fee merely for hiking access. Most of the Maryland State Parks charge entrance fees, but only for vehicle and sometimes bike access. None of the Maryland State Forests or WMAs have access or entrance fees. I am not aware of National Parks or Wildlife Refuges in Maryland that require access permits either. I think the fee at Blackwater is only to drive their interior loop. > > Dick Smith > > -----Original Message----- > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alonso Abugattas > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:42 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > As far as I know, the access permit or having a hunting/fishing license requirement only applies to VA Wildlife Management Areas (although I think most VA State Parks (and MD too), National Wildlife Refuges like Blackwater in MD, and National Parks already have entrance fees in place already). For now most MD WMA's I think are free although a few are closed to the public during the hunting season. From talking to VA park folks, they say that the sales of hunting/fishing licenses have gone down and that's what pays for these properties. During these economic times, they felt they needed to do something to maintain the management of the sites. They also felt it was time for anyone using them to pay for the privilege instead of just some footing the bill for everyone. There was some public comment period and they did send surveys and survey any visitors to the sites (I replied to both types of surveys for example). There's been talk about some kind of tax or user fee to raise more funds for various natural sites nationwide, but for now only a few things like hunting and fishing equipment have been taxed. It's sad to say but I think others like MD will soon follow suit with "access permits." Soon, only our local parks will be free unfortunately. As a park employee having worked for various systems in my career, I find this sad, but much more likely every year. Few of the things like programs and such which we did for free in the past are free now. It will only get worse I fear. Of course this means fewer people being able to afford nature experiences and only a few priviliged folks getting the environmental education that should be free for everyone. I can however understand the need for different parks to raise money to keep them running as well. Again, I fear the future will be worse all the time and these problems are not going to get resolved easily. > > Alonso > > ________________________________ > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT ...] > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:55 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > Greg, > > I am a resident of Maryland, but I am curious as to how the Commonwealth of Virginia has now seen fit to implement such a policy in areas that have been open to the general public for probably at least the last half century. I can see hunting, fishing, and boating permits, but honestly, even hiking?!! This now makes these areas even more inaccessible to the general public than private property. With private property, permission only needs to be granted by the landowner, and there is usually not the need to purchased the right in addition. Does the policy apply to Virginia State Forests too? Luckily, Virginia still has National Parks and Forests. > > Dick Smith > Columbia, MD > > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:50 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > The Virginia DGIF now requires an Access Permit for Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) and public fishing lakes effective January 1, 2012. Particulars are described here: > > http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/access-permit/ > > Those holding valid fishing, hunting or boating permits will not need to purchase this new access permit as described at the DGIF site. > > The permit appears to be required for any activity at DGIF managed facilities (including birdwatching, insect photography, hiking or picnicing). > > Greg Davis > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Subject: RE: Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 14:35:12 -0500 The imposition of access fees is something new and startling to me; however, yes, I do not have any qualms either about the payment of extra fees to support the preservation of these areas if that is now economically necessary. I am more concerned though about the inequity and potential loss of public interest in WMAs in VA (and the unique habitats that many have to offer) by non-hunters and non-fishermen because it is only the WMA state lands that have such individual walk-on access fees now. Since there are so many natural areas to choose from for a daily outing, many nature-lovers will simply avoid the WMAs because of the access fee and visit other state or federal lands. For these, there is no access fee and only an entrance fee if you are taking a vehicle into specific areas. I would be more in favor of a minor access fee and permit to visit ALL Virginia state public lands. Of course, the daily access fee could be waived if you paid the daily vehicle entrance fee, but each adult occupant of the car would have to pay the access fee. If park and state forest visitors as well as WMA visitors were all paying a fee, the charge per person could probably be made much lower and still produce substantial revenue for the state. By this policy, no state land would receive the negative discrimination that the VA WMAs have now, and all state lands would remain equal in the general public interest. By the current policy, it seems like Virginia is actually discouraging bird, flower, and bug lovers from visiting WMAs and focusing WMAs even more for use only by hunters and fishermen who are already covered by separate license fees. Dick Smith Columbia, MD From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 11:36 AM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee I don't really have an issue with paying this new fee, as most of the nature areas I visit including VA State Parks, National Parks, Battlefields and National Wildlife Refuges do have a fee. However, I don't like the way the fee is collected, as you can't drop in to the WMA or fishing lake and conveniently pay the fee upon entrance as you can at an other area. You theoretically can pay upon arrival via smartphone, but my smartphone doesn't work up at Thompson, for example. The fee is also a per-person fee, not a per automobile fee, which is unique for nature area access. --- In VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com, Alonso Abugattas wrote: > > I agree with all of you regarding how this hurts the general public in appreciating the resources in any of the parks which charge an entry fee, whether Great Falls or Thompson's, and was hoping I had made that plain in my email. I was stating the reasoning as I had heard of if as to why they felt this was necessary. Believe me, I would prefer all the parks, environmental education programs, and resources be free for anyone to access. I hope we don't get to the point where only those who can afford these things will be the ones who benefit while everyone else never does. I've been fighting to keep that from happening in every park system I've ever been associated with but to no avail. I hope we can at least convince the powers that be to allow some exceptions to those charges, and not just every once in a while like National Parks are doing but at least for all educational groups/efforts. We'll see though. Again, I was not so much in any support for any of these occurrences but explaining what I had heard as the reasoning for them for happening. Thanks. > > > > Alonso > > ________________________________ > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT ...] > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:43 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Cc: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > > > Alonso, > > Thanks for the background. I read the requirement at first as a bit of a shock. I am not against raising more funds for these areas, but I think the ultimate outcome as this regulation becomes enforced is that far fewer people will take the opportunity to become acquainted with and appreciate many of the truly unique natural habitat areas tucked away inside these WMAs. Visits by the general public will be even more confined to manicured picnic and activity areas where people will still feel justified to pay the entrance fees for the maintenance of the facilities there. I do not feel confident that extra funding sources but less general public appreciation for WMAs will help to sustain habitat conservation for non-game as well as game wildlife at these areas in the long run. Washington, DC areas residents must now realize that this new regulation requires each person now to obtain a $6.00 per visit permit (up to the annual permit fee of $24.00) to visit the trillium trail at the G. Thompson WMA in Fauquier County. > > In Maryland, I am not aware of any public area in the state so far that requires a permit and fee merely for hiking access. Most of the Maryland State Parks charge entrance fees, but only for vehicle and sometimes bike access. None of the Maryland State Forests or WMAs have access or entrance fees. I am not aware of National Parks or Wildlife Refuges in Maryland that require access permits either. I think the fee at Blackwater is only to drive their interior loop. > > Dick Smith > > -----Original Message----- > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alonso Abugattas > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:42 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > As far as I know, the access permit or having a hunting/fishing license requirement only applies to VA Wildlife Management Areas (although I think most VA State Parks (and MD too), National Wildlife Refuges like Blackwater in MD, and National Parks already have entrance fees in place already). For now most MD WMA's I think are free although a few are closed to the public during the hunting season. From talking to VA park folks, they say that the sales of hunting/fishing licenses have gone down and that's what pays for these properties. During these economic times, they felt they needed to do something to maintain the management of the sites. They also felt it was time for anyone using them to pay for the privilege instead of just some footing the bill for everyone. There was some public comment period and they did send surveys and survey any visitors to the sites (I replied to both types of surveys for example). There's been talk about some kind of tax or user fee to raise more funds for various natural sites nationwide, but for now only a few things like hunting and fishing equipment have been taxed. It's sad to say but I think others like MD will soon follow suit with "access permits." Soon, only our local parks will be free unfortunately. As a park employee having worked for various systems in my career, I find this sad, but much more likely every year. Few of the things like programs and such which we did for free in the past are free now. It will only get worse I fear. Of course this means fewer people being able to afford nature experiences and only a few priviliged folks getting the environmental education that should be free for everyone. I can however understand the need for different parks to raise money to keep them running as well. Again, I fear the future will be worse all the time and these problems are not going to get resolved easily. > > Alonso > > ________________________________ > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT ...] > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:55 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > Greg, > > I am a resident of Maryland, but I am curious as to how the Commonwealth of Virginia has now seen fit to implement such a policy in areas that have been open to the general public for probably at least the last half century. I can see hunting, fishing, and boating permits, but honestly, even hiking?!! This now makes these areas even more inaccessible to the general public than private property. With private property, permission only needs to be granted by the landowner, and there is usually not the need to purchased the right in addition. Does the policy apply to Virginia State Forests too? Luckily, Virginia still has National Parks and Forests. > > Dick Smith > Columbia, MD > > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:50 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > The Virginia DGIF now requires an Access Permit for Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) and public fishing lakes effective January 1, 2012. Particulars are described here: > > http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/access-permit/ > > Those holding valid fishing, hunting or boating permits will not need to purchase this new access permit as described at the DGIF site. > > The permit appears to be required for any activity at DGIF managed facilities (including birdwatching, insect photography, hiking or picnicing). > > Greg Davis > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: "Greg" <gergrd AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:36:14 -0000 I don't really have an issue with paying this new fee, as most of the nature areas I visit including VA State Parks, National Parks, Battlefields and National Wildlife Refuges do have a fee. However, I don't like the way the fee is collected, as you can't drop in to the WMA or fishing lake and conveniently pay the fee upon entrance as you can at an other area. You theoretically can pay upon arrival via smartphone, but my smartphone doesn't work up at Thompson, for example. The fee is also a per-person fee, not a per automobile fee, which is unique for nature area access. --- In VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com, Alonso Abugattas wrote: > > I agree with all of you regarding how this hurts the general public in appreciating the resources in any of the parks which charge an entry fee, whether Great Falls or Thompson's, and was hoping I had made that plain in my email. I was stating the reasoning as I had heard of if as to why they felt this was necessary. Believe me, I would prefer all the parks, environmental education programs, and resources be free for anyone to access. I hope we don't get to the point where only those who can afford these things will be the ones who benefit while everyone else never does. I've been fighting to keep that from happening in every park system I've ever been associated with but to no avail. I hope we can at least convince the powers that be to allow some exceptions to those charges, and not just every once in a while like National Parks are doing but at least for all educational groups/efforts. We'll see though. Again, I was not so much in any support for any of these occurrences but explaining what I had heard as the reasoning for them for happening. Thanks. > > > > Alonso > > ________________________________ > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT ...] > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:43 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Cc: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > > > Alonso, > > Thanks for the background. I read the requirement at first as a bit of a shock. I am not against raising more funds for these areas, but I think the ultimate outcome as this regulation becomes enforced is that far fewer people will take the opportunity to become acquainted with and appreciate many of the truly unique natural habitat areas tucked away inside these WMAs. Visits by the general public will be even more confined to manicured picnic and activity areas where people will still feel justified to pay the entrance fees for the maintenance of the facilities there. I do not feel confident that extra funding sources but less general public appreciation for WMAs will help to sustain habitat conservation for non-game as well as game wildlife at these areas in the long run. Washington, DC areas residents must now realize that this new regulation requires each person now to obtain a $6.00 per visit permit (up to the annual permit fee of $24.00) to visit the trillium trail at the G. Thompson WMA in Fauquier County. > > In Maryland, I am not aware of any public area in the state so far that requires a permit and fee merely for hiking access. Most of the Maryland State Parks charge entrance fees, but only for vehicle and sometimes bike access. None of the Maryland State Forests or WMAs have access or entrance fees. I am not aware of National Parks or Wildlife Refuges in Maryland that require access permits either. I think the fee at Blackwater is only to drive their interior loop. > > Dick Smith > > -----Original Message----- > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alonso Abugattas > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:42 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > As far as I know, the access permit or having a hunting/fishing license requirement only applies to VA Wildlife Management Areas (although I think most VA State Parks (and MD too), National Wildlife Refuges like Blackwater in MD, and National Parks already have entrance fees in place already). For now most MD WMA's I think are free although a few are closed to the public during the hunting season. From talking to VA park folks, they say that the sales of hunting/fishing licenses have gone down and that's what pays for these properties. During these economic times, they felt they needed to do something to maintain the management of the sites. They also felt it was time for anyone using them to pay for the privilege instead of just some footing the bill for everyone. There was some public comment period and they did send surveys and survey any visitors to the sites (I replied to both types of surveys for example). There's been talk about some kind of tax or user fee to raise more funds for various natural sites nationwide, but for now only a few things like hunting and fishing equipment have been taxed. It's sad to say but I think others like MD will soon follow suit with "access permits." Soon, only our local parks will be free unfortunately. As a park employee having worked for various systems in my career, I find this sad, but much more likely every year. Few of the things like programs and such which we did for free in the past are free now. It will only get worse I fear. Of course this means fewer people being able to afford nature experiences and only a few priviliged folks getting the environmental education that should be free for everyone. I can however understand the need for different parks to raise money to keep them running as well. Again, I fear the future will be worse all the time and these problems are not going to get resolved easily. > > Alonso > > ________________________________ > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT ...] > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:55 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > Greg, > > I am a resident of Maryland, but I am curious as to how the Commonwealth of Virginia has now seen fit to implement such a policy in areas that have been open to the general public for probably at least the last half century. I can see hunting, fishing, and boating permits, but honestly, even hiking?!! This now makes these areas even more inaccessible to the general public than private property. With private property, permission only needs to be granted by the landowner, and there is usually not the need to purchased the right in addition. Does the policy apply to Virginia State Forests too? Luckily, Virginia still has National Parks and Forests. > > Dick Smith > Columbia, MD > > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:50 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee > > The Virginia DGIF now requires an Access Permit for Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) and public fishing lakes effective January 1, 2012. Particulars are described here: > > http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/access-permit/ > > Those holding valid fishing, hunting or boating permits will not need to purchase this new access permit as described at the DGIF site. > > The permit appears to be required for any activity at DGIF managed facilities (including birdwatching, insect photography, hiking or picnicing). > > Greg Davis > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Subject: RE: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: Alonso Abugattas <aabugattas AT arlingtonva.us> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 03:52:55 +0000 I agree with all of you regarding how this hurts the general public in appreciating the resources in any of the parks which charge an entry fee, whether Great Falls or Thompson's, and was hoping I had made that plain in my email. I was stating the reasoning as I had heard of if as to why they felt this was necessary. Believe me, I would prefer all the parks, environmental education programs, and resources be free for anyone to access. I hope we don't get to the point where only those who can afford these things will be the ones who benefit while everyone else never does. I've been fighting to keep that from happening in every park system I've ever been associated with but to no avail. I hope we can at least convince the powers that be to allow some exceptions to those charges, and not just every once in a while like National Parks are doing but at least for all educational groups/efforts. We'll see though. Again, I was not so much in any support for any of these occurrences but explaining what I had heard as the reasoning for them for happening. Thanks. Alonso ________________________________ From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu] Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:43 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Cc: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee Alonso, Thanks for the background. I read the requirement at first as a bit of a shock. I am not against raising more funds for these areas, but I think the ultimate outcome as this regulation becomes enforced is that far fewer people will take the opportunity to become acquainted with and appreciate many of the truly unique natural habitat areas tucked away inside these WMAs. Visits by the general public will be even more confined to manicured picnic and activity areas where people will still feel justified to pay the entrance fees for the maintenance of the facilities there. I do not feel confident that extra funding sources but less general public appreciation for WMAs will help to sustain habitat conservation for non-game as well as game wildlife at these areas in the long run. Washington, DC areas residents must now realize that this new regulation requires each person now to obtain a $6.00 per visit permit (up to the annual permit fee of $24.00) to visit the trillium trail at the G. Thompson WMA in Fauquier County. In Maryland, I am not aware of any public area in the state so far that requires a permit and fee merely for hiking access. Most of the Maryland State Parks charge entrance fees, but only for vehicle and sometimes bike access. None of the Maryland State Forests or WMAs have access or entrance fees. I am not aware of National Parks or Wildlife Refuges in Maryland that require access permits either. I think the fee at Blackwater is only to drive their interior loop. Dick Smith -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alonso Abugattas Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:42 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee As far as I know, the access permit or having a hunting/fishing license requirement only applies to VA Wildlife Management Areas (although I think most VA State Parks (and MD too), National Wildlife Refuges like Blackwater in MD, and National Parks already have entrance fees in place already). For now most MD WMA's I think are free although a few are closed to the public during the hunting season. From talking to VA park folks, they say that the sales of hunting/fishing licenses have gone down and that's what pays for these properties. During these economic times, they felt they needed to do something to maintain the management of the sites. They also felt it was time for anyone using them to pay for the privilege instead of just some footing the bill for everyone. There was some public comment period and they did send surveys and survey any visitors to the sites (I replied to both types of surveys for example). There's been talk about some kind of tax or user fee to raise more funds for various natural sites nationwide, but for now only a few things like hunting and fishing equipment have been taxed. It's sad to say but I think others like MD will soon follow suit with "access permits." Soon, only our local parks will be free unfortunately. As a park employee having worked for various systems in my career, I find this sad, but much more likely every year. Few of the things like programs and such which we did for free in the past are free now. It will only get worse I fear. Of course this means fewer people being able to afford nature experiences and only a few priviliged folks getting the environmental education that should be free for everyone. I can however understand the need for different parks to raise money to keep them running as well. Again, I fear the future will be worse all the time and these problems are not going to get resolved easily. Alonso ________________________________ From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu] Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:55 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee Greg, I am a resident of Maryland, but I am curious as to how the Commonwealth of Virginia has now seen fit to implement such a policy in areas that have been open to the general public for probably at least the last half century. I can see hunting, fishing, and boating permits, but honestly, even hiking?!! This now makes these areas even more inaccessible to the general public than private property. With private property, permission only needs to be granted by the landowner, and there is usually not the need to purchased the right in addition. Does the policy apply to Virginia State Forests too? Luckily, Virginia still has National Parks and Forests. Dick Smith Columbia, MD From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:50 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee The Virginia DGIF now requires an Access Permit for Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) and public fishing lakes effective January 1, 2012. Particulars are described here: http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/access-permit/ Those holding valid fishing, hunting or boating permits will not need to purchase this new access permit as described at the DGIF site. The permit appears to be required for any activity at DGIF managed facilities (including birdwatching, insect photography, hiking or picnicing). Greg Davis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 20:43:04 -0500 Alonso, Thanks for the background. I read the requirement at first as a bit of a shock. I am not against raising more funds for these areas, but I think the ultimate outcome as this regulation becomes enforced is that far fewer people will take the opportunity to become acquainted with and appreciate many of the truly unique natural habitat areas tucked away inside these WMAs. Visits by the general public will be even more confined to manicured picnic and activity areas where people will still feel justified to pay the entrance fees for the maintenance of the facilities there. I do not feel confident that extra funding sources but less general public appreciation for WMAs will help to sustain habitat conservation for non-game as well as game wildlife at these areas in the long run. Washington, DC areas residents must now realize that this new regulation requires each person now to obtain a $6.00 per visit permit (up to the annual permit fee of $24.00) to visit the trillium trail at the G. Thompson WMA in Fauquier County. In Maryland, I am not aware of any public area in the state so far that requires a permit and fee merely for hiking access. Most of the Maryland State Parks charge entrance fees, but only for vehicle and sometimes bike access. None of the Maryland State Forests or WMAs have access or entrance fees. I am not aware of National Parks or Wildlife Refuges in Maryland that require access permits either. I think the fee at Blackwater is only to drive their interior loop. Dick Smith -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alonso Abugattas Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:42 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee As far as I know, the access permit or having a hunting/fishing license requirement only applies to VA Wildlife Management Areas (although I think most VA State Parks (and MD too), National Wildlife Refuges like Blackwater in MD, and National Parks already have entrance fees in place already). For now most MD WMA's I think are free although a few are closed to the public during the hunting season. From talking to VA park folks, they say that the sales of hunting/fishing licenses have gone down and that's what pays for these properties. During these economic times, they felt they needed to do something to maintain the management of the sites. They also felt it was time for anyone using them to pay for the privilege instead of just some footing the bill for everyone. There was some public comment period and they did send surveys and survey any visitors to the sites (I replied to both types of surveys for example). There's been talk about some kind of tax or user fee to raise more funds for various natural sites nationwide, but for now only a few things like hunting and fishing equipment have been taxed. It's sad to say but I think others like MD will soon follow suit with "access permits." Soon, only our local parks will be free unfortunately. As a park employee having worked for various systems in my career, I find this sad, but much more likely every year. Few of the things like programs and such which we did for free in the past are free now. It will only get worse I fear. Of course this means fewer people being able to afford nature experiences and only a few priviliged folks getting the environmental education that should be free for everyone. I can however understand the need for different parks to raise money to keep them running as well. Again, I fear the future will be worse all the time and these problems are not going to get resolved easily. Alonso ________________________________ From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu] Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:55 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee Greg, I am a resident of Maryland, but I am curious as to how the Commonwealth of Virginia has now seen fit to implement such a policy in areas that have been open to the general public for probably at least the last half century. I can see hunting, fishing, and boating permits, but honestly, even hiking?!! This now makes these areas even more inaccessible to the general public than private property. With private property, permission only needs to be granted by the landowner, and there is usually not the need to purchased the right in addition. Does the policy apply to Virginia State Forests too? Luckily, Virginia still has National Parks and Forests. Dick Smith Columbia, MD From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:50 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee The Virginia DGIF now requires an Access Permit for Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) and public fishing lakes effective January 1, 2012. Particulars are described here: http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/access-permit/ Those holding valid fishing, hunting or boating permits will not need to purchase this new access permit as described at the DGIF site. The permit appears to be required for any activity at DGIF managed facilities (including birdwatching, insect photography, hiking or picnicing). Greg Davis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: Alonso Abugattas <aabugattas AT arlingtonva.us> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:42:16 +0000 As far as I know, the access permit or having a hunting/fishing license requirement only applies to VA Wildlife Management Areas (although I think most VA State Parks (and MD too), National Wildlife Refuges like Blackwater in MD, and National Parks already have entrance fees in place already). For now most MD WMA's I think are free although a few are closed to the public during the hunting season. From talking to VA park folks, they say that the sales of hunting/fishing licenses have gone down and that's what pays for these properties. During these economic times, they felt they needed to do something to maintain the management of the sites. They also felt it was time for anyone using them to pay for the privilege instead of just some footing the bill for everyone. There was some public comment period and they did send surveys and survey any visitors to the sites (I replied to both types of surveys for example). There's been talk about some kind of tax or user fee to raise more funds for various natural sites nationwide, but for now only a few things like hunting and fishing equipment have been taxed. It's sad to say but I think others like MD will soon follow suit with "access permits." Soon, only our local parks will be free unfortunately. As a park employee having worked for various systems in my career, I find this sad, but much more likely every year. Few of the things like programs and such which we did for free in the past are free now. It will only get worse I fear. Of course this means fewer people being able to afford nature experiences and only a few priviliged folks getting the environmental education that should be free for everyone. I can however understand the need for different parks to raise money to keep them running as well. Again, I fear the future will be worse all the time and these problems are not going to get resolved easily. Alonso ________________________________ From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Smith, Richard H. [Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu] Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:55 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee Greg, I am a resident of Maryland, but I am curious as to how the Commonwealth of Virginia has now seen fit to implement such a policy in areas that have been open to the general public for probably at least the last half century. I can see hunting, fishing, and boating permits, but honestly, even hiking?!! This now makes these areas even more inaccessible to the general public than private property. With private property, permission only needs to be granted by the landowner, and there is usually not the need to purchased the right in addition. Does the policy apply to Virginia State Forests too? Luckily, Virginia still has National Parks and Forests. Dick Smith Columbia, MD From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:50 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee The Virginia DGIF now requires an Access Permit for Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) and public fishing lakes effective January 1, 2012. Particulars are described here: http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/access-permit/ Those holding valid fishing, hunting or boating permits will not need to purchase this new access permit as described at the DGIF site. The permit appears to be required for any activity at DGIF managed facilities (including birdwatching, insect photography, hiking or picnicing). Greg Davis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:55:38 -0500 Greg, I am a resident of Maryland, but I am curious as to how the Commonwealth of Virginia has now seen fit to implement such a policy in areas that have been open to the general public for probably at least the last half century. I can see hunting, fishing, and boating permits, but honestly, even hiking?!! This now makes these areas even more inaccessible to the general public than private property. With private property, permission only needs to be granted by the landowner, and there is usually not the need to purchased the right in addition. Does the policy apply to Virginia State Forests too? Luckily, Virginia still has National Parks and Forests. Dick Smith Columbia, MD From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:50 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee The Virginia DGIF now requires an Access Permit for Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) and public fishing lakes effective January 1, 2012. Particulars are described here: http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/access-permit/ Those holding valid fishing, hunting or boating permits will not need to purchase this new access permit as described at the DGIF site. The permit appears to be required for any activity at DGIF managed facilities (including birdwatching, insect photography, hiking or picnicing). Greg Davis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: New Virginia DGIF WMA / Fishing Lake fee From: "Greg" <gergrd AT yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:50:12 -0000 The Virginia DGIF now requires an Access Permit for Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) and public fishing lakes effective January 1, 2012. Particulars are described here: http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/access-permit/ Those holding valid fishing, hunting or boating permits will not need to purchase this new access permit as described at the DGIF site. The permit appears to be required for any activity at DGIF managed facilities (including birdwatching, insect photography, hiking or picnicing). Greg Davis ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: Monarchs cross Gulf of Mexico? From: Paul Cherubini <monarch AT saber.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 13:37:44 -0800 On Nov. 5, 2007 Mona Miller wrote: > Denise Gibbs has had Monarchs tagged on the > coast of VA and then found in England during a > tropical storm, it took 5 days. No tagged monarchs were actually found in England. Today on another list Denise Gibbs wrote: http://www.butterflydigest.com/s/digest.pl?rm=message;id=88197 "Mona misunderstood. Chip [Taylor] just asked me about this and here is my response to him. "Chip-- thanks for sending this. It was interesting to read "The track of most of the hurricanes and storms that move up the east coast of the US and then swing east toward Europe take 3.5 - 5 days to cross the Atlantic." I don't know if MW has archives of all the postings, but I remember one year at Chincoteague when I tagged several hundred monarchs and right after that I watched the high winds from a storm take them out to sea. There were high west winds for 5 days. Then on day 5, I got an e-mail from a woman in Great Britain who said hundreds of monarchs were flying into shore from out over the ocean. I told her to rush right back out there to see if she could locate one with a tag on its wing, but I never heard back from her." Paul Cherubini ------------------------------------ Subject: American Snout From: Jan Meyer <janmeyer_2000 AT yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 14:05:40 -0800 (PST) While at Occoquan Bay NWR looking for the Brewer's Sparrow, I was surprised to see a butterfly. I was further surprised that it was an American Snout. Jan Meyer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: FOY Butterflies From: "A Bryan" <nshrike AT mail.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 18:45:33 -0500 While participating on the Walkerton (Va) CBC yesterday I encountered three butterfly species, Common Buckye (1) and American Lady (1) and a Colias sp. (1). Allen Bryan Richmond, Va. www.visitingnature.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: December Moths From: Alonso Abugattas <aabugattas AT arlingtonva.us> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 20:57:21 +0000 Looks like a Fall Cankerworm Moth (Alsophila pometaria) I think. They are quite common in warm weather in winter and can be quite variable. If it is that, then it's a male since females are wingless. They feed on a lot of different deciduous trees and are so common sometimes that some would consider them pests. I hope someone can confirm my educated guess. thanks. Alonso From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sopol Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 9:24 AM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] December Moths Does anyone know what these moths are and why they emerge in the winter? http://www.flickr.com/photos/39432681 AT N05/6559233965/in/photostream Sheryl Pollock Herndon, VA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Late season Odonate in Delaware From: Hal White <halwhite AT udel.edu> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:34:36 -0500 Yesterday with official temperatures nearing 60*F, bright sun, and very light winds, Jim White suggested that it was a good excuse to document the end of the local Odonate season. We went to the "sedge meadow" pond and associated south facing slopes just north of the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal where we had found Sympetrum vicinum (Autumn Meadowhawk) last on Dec. 11 after overnight temperatures of 22*F. On Dec 13, after two more nights when the temperature dropped to 20 and 22*F respectively, we found none flying. We had last seen Ischnura hastata (Citrine Forktail) on Dec. 4 but had not gone wading to look for it since. Today we looked hard for both species over the noon hour. Results: No meadowhawks found. 13 dead female Ischnura hastata found floating in the water, but hardly decayed, AND one live female seen by Jim! This is by far the latest date for an adult odonate in Delaware. A thermometer placed in the sun on the ground of the south-facing embankment read 36*C (96*F). Air temperature was about 70*F. Water temperature was 8*C (46*F). The lack of male Ischnura, makes one wonder about parthenogenesis because this species is parthenogenic in the Azores. On Dec. 4 there were a small number of males, but females dominated. Hal White Newark, DE ------------------------------------ Subject: December Moths From: "sopol" <sopol AT yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:23:51 -0000 Does anyone know what these moths are and why they emerge in the winter? http://www.flickr.com/photos/39432681 AT N05/6559233965/in/photostream Sheryl Pollock Herndon, VA ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: insect/roach? From: Bonnie Ott <bonnieott AT ymail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:49:19 -0800 (PST) Oh!! Thank you :) ________________________________ From: Arthur V. Evans To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] insect/roach? Bonnie, It looks like a female wood roach, Parcoblatta sp. Cheers, ART EVANS Arthur V. Evans, D.Sc. Adjunct Professor: Biology Department, Randolph-Macon College, Ashland, VA Biology Department, University of Richmond, Richmond, VA Biology Department, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, VA Research Associate: Department of Entomology, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC Department of Recent Invertebrates, Virginia Museum of Natural  History, Martinsville, VA Life Sciences, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, VA What's Bugging You? http://arthurevans.wordpress.com What's Bugging You? is on 88.9 FM WCVE Richmond Public Radio http://www.ideastations.org/radio/archive/people/dr-art-evans Join me on Facebook to  find out about upcoming lectures, books, and other insect events On Dec 19, 2011, at 10:38 AM, Bonnie Ott wrote: > A slow time for insects now but I am still looking. I found this  > little one under a log. It looks like a roach? I looked in the  > Peterson guide but am not certain.? > > http://flic.kr/p/aXJUmc > > Thanks, > > Bonnie Ott > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: insect/roach? From: "Arthur V. Evans" <arthurevans AT verizon.net> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 11:07:41 -0500 Bonnie, It looks like a female wood roach, Parcoblatta sp. Cheers, ART EVANS Arthur V. Evans, D.Sc. Adjunct Professor: Biology Department, Randolph-Macon College, Ashland, VA Biology Department, University of Richmond, Richmond, VA Biology Department, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, VA Research Associate: Department of Entomology, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC Department of Recent Invertebrates, Virginia Museum of Natural History, Martinsville, VA Life Sciences, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, VA What's Bugging You? http://arthurevans.wordpress.com What's Bugging You? is on 88.9 FM WCVE Richmond Public Radio http://www.ideastations.org/radio/archive/people/dr-art-evans Join me on Facebook to find out about upcoming lectures, books, and other insect events On Dec 19, 2011, at 10:38 AM, Bonnie Ott wrote: > A slow time for insects now but I am still looking. I found this > little one under a log. It looks like a roach? I looked in the > Peterson guide but am not certain.? > > http://flic.kr/p/aXJUmc > > Thanks, > > Bonnie Ott > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: insect/roach? From: Bonnie Ott <bonnieott AT ymail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 07:38:57 -0800 (PST) A slow time for insects now but I am still looking. I found this little one under a log. It looks like a roach? I looked in the Peterson guide but am not certain.? http://flic.kr/p/aXJUmc Thanks, Bonnie Ott [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: FW: 11 New Sweat Bees From: Alonso Abugattas <aabugattas AT arlingtonva.us> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 04:29:09 +0000 You're absolutely right of course! There really is so much that we can discover in our own area if we know what to look for. I didn't make that point very clearly. I'm glad we have so many folks who were willing to try and fill-in our gaps in knowledge around here too. Thanks. Alonso ________________________________ From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Sam Droege [sdroege AT usgs.gov] Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 8:47 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] FW: 11 New Sweat Bees Actually, the real title might better be that there is much to discover in the MD-VA-WV- DC area as collected by a number of the people on this listserv! If you look at the collection records, types, and specimens for this study far more were discovered and documented from this region and relatively few from NYC. You are seeing the American Museum's PR spin machine in action. For example, the species called L. gotham (named after NYC for just this sort of reason) has as its holotype USA, Maryland, Charles Co., N38.6861 W077.0791, 23?24.iv.2003 The picture taken for the article was from ... West Virginia. And so forth. So, yes, a smidge of these species have been found in the greater NYC area, but the bulk are based on this region's specimens and worker bees! Congratulations to everyone involved! In this revision are specimens from Jane Whitaker, Warren Steiner, The students at Sidwell Friends School, many of my high school interns, National Park personell, my field technicians, Jenn Frye, Suzanne Batra, etc. Sam Sam Droege sdroege AT usgs.gov w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624 USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705 Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov "This isn't like naming your dog spot." Richard Mellvill, Secretary, International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature, on naming plants and animals. From: Alonso Abugattas > To: "VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com" > Date: 12/15/2011 06:27 PM Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] FW: 11 New Sweat Bees Sent by: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com FYI for folks on just how much there is still left to discover even in New York City... Alonso From: Christina Yacobi Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 6:09 PM To: Alonso Abugattas Subject: 11 New Sweat Bees (... didn't know if you'd had the time this fall to get this info already) Researcher discovers 11 new sweat bee species, four in New York City area http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Nov11/NewBees.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: FW: 11 New Sweat Bees From: Sam Droege <sdroege AT usgs.gov> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:47:07 -0500 Actually, the real title might better be that there is much to discover in the MD-VA-WV- DC area as collected by a number of the people on this listserv! If you look at the collection records, types, and specimens for this study far more were discovered and documented from this region and relatively few from NYC. You are seeing the American Museum's PR spin machine in action. For example, the species called L. gotham (named after NYC for just this sort of reason) has as its holotype USA, Maryland, Charles Co., N38.6861 W077.0791, 23?24.iv.2003 The picture taken for the article was from ... West Virginia. And so forth. So, yes, a smidge of these species have been found in the greater NYC area, but the bulk are based on this region's specimens and worker bees! Congratulations to everyone involved! In this revision are specimens from Jane Whitaker, Warren Steiner, The students at Sidwell Friends School, many of my high school interns, National Park personell, my field technicians, Jenn Frye, Suzanne Batra, etc. Sam Sam Droege sdroege AT usgs.gov w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624 USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705 Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov "This isn't like naming your dog spot." Richard Mellvill, Secretary, International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature, on naming plants and animals. From: Alonso Abugattas To: "VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com" Date: 12/15/2011 06:27 PM Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] FW: 11 New Sweat Bees Sent by: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com FYI for folks on just how much there is still left to discover even in New York City... Alonso From: Christina Yacobi Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 6:09 PM To: Alonso Abugattas Subject: 11 New Sweat Bees (... didn't know if you'd had the time this fall to get this info already) Researcher discovers 11 new sweat bee species, four in New York City area http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Nov11/NewBees.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: FW: 11 New Sweat Bees From: Alonso Abugattas <aabugattas AT arlingtonva.us> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:27:20 +0000 FYI for folks on just how much there is still left to discover even in New York City... Alonso From: Christina Yacobi Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 6:09 PM To: Alonso Abugattas Subject: 11 New Sweat Bees (... didn't know if you'd had the time this fall to get this info already) Researcher discovers 11 new sweat bee species, four in New York City area http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Nov11/NewBees.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Pre- and Unpainted Bee Bowls or Pan Traps available for Sale from Non-Profit From: Sam Droege <sdroege AT usgs.gov> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 18:48:23 -0500 All: Its winter now and most of our bee and Hymenoptera collecting has come to a close as we process and identify specimens and write up publications. In the same time, this is also planning season and time to purchase new equipment for the coming year. Once such need is for painted pan traps or bowls. In the past getting pan traps meant you got them from either my shop or painted your own. We are now mostly out of the business of supplying traps, but making your own traps means a lot of extra work finding bowls, paint, and time. However, there is an alternative ... using the services of New Horizons Supported Services whose wonderful crew of developmentally disabled workers paints and sells bowls. This is good, rewarding work for the the folks at New Horizons, who often find jobs difficult to come by, and, at this point, it is the only place that will provide you with pre-painted bowls!. The standard product is either the plain white unpainted Solo 3.25 ounce souffle cup or bowls painted fluorescent yellow or fluorescent blue. The fluorescent colors are custom made as listed in the Handy Bee Manual http://bio2.elmira.edu/fieldbio/ Pricing for bowls is $0.19 for painted bowls and $0.05 for unpainted (white). Shipping costs average between $10-12. New Horizons is also open to painted other size and shape bowls and cups for you too. Please contact Cynthia Swift-King for more information or placing your order. Cynthia Swift-King, Associate Director New Horizons Supported Services 16000 Trade Zone Avenue Upper Marlboro, Maryland 20774 Tel: 301 249 0206 Fax: 301 249 4512 email: cking AT nhssi.org They prefer payments be remitted via a credit card. Credit card payments can be made by going to www.nhssi.org, (1st click on ?donations? and then input the total amount of the remittance). Checks are to be made payable to "New Horizon Supported Services, Inc." An invoice will be emailed to you and included with the shipment to indicate that they remittance was for the purchase of Bee bowls (as opposed to a donation) Please indicate the exact mailing address to be used to ship the bowls . sam Sam Droege sdroege AT usgs.gov w 301-497-5840 h 301-390-7759 fax 301-497-5624 USGS Patuxent Wildlife Research Center BARC-EAST, BLDG 308, RM 124 10300 Balt. Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705 Http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov This is what you shall do: Love the earth and sun and the animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown or to any man or number of men, go freely with powerful uneducated persons and with the young and with the mothers of families, read these leaves in the open air of every year of your life, re-examine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency not only in its words but in the silent lines of its lips and face and between the lashes of your eyes and in every motion and joint of your body . . . . - Walt Whitman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: [leps-talk] Appalachian Tiger Swallowtail (Papilio appalachiensis) From: Mona Miller <runmede AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 22:38:25 -0500 We get to see both at a puddle party in the Virginia Mountains, Marshall, VA. I've seen them. On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 10:27 PM, Harry LeGrand wrote: > I'm not completely sold on the first photo, from KY, as being P. > appalachiensis. The HW outer margin does not look overly long and > "stretched" like on the other photos. (Appy has a long-looking HW). Also, > the yellow spots on the FW margin also don't seem to form a yellow band; > they are a bit too discrete in terms of spots. And, the silvery-blue band > on both wings, just inside the yellow marginal spots, isn't as wide as I'd > feel comfortable with (see the third photo, for comparison). It could well > be an Appy, but I don't have a problem calling the third photo an Appy (as > well as 2, 4, and 5). (I get sent a lot of Papilio photos from NC to try > to identify. I've seen 100 or more Appys in the NC mountains, but there are > always some photos that are tricky. Sure is nice to look at photos of both > together at a puddle party -- I'm spoiled!) > > Harry LeGrand > Raleigh, NC > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Mona Miller > *To:* VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com; washbutterflies < > washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com>; Leps list with photos < > TILS-leps-talk AT yahoogroups.com>; valeps AT yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 13, 2011 11:39 AM > *Subject:* [leps-talk] Appalachian Tiger Swallowtail (Papilio > appalachiensis) > > > Congratulations to Harry Pavulaan and David Wright. The Appalachian > Tiger Swallowtail (Papilio appalachiensis) is now listed as an > official species on the Butterflies and Moths of North America > website. > > http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Papilio-appalachiensis > > Discoveries like this are part of what "The International Lepidoptera > Society (TILS) does. > > Yesterday, I dropped a check into the mail to help support "The > International Lepidoptera Society (TILS). Harry Pavulaan, the current > president, treasurer, secretary, editor, needs support to keep TILS > going. Make checks payable to TILS. Send them to Harry at his > Herndon, PO address. TILS is a non-profit so all donations are tax > deductible. > > Harry Pavulaan / TILS > PO Box 1124 > Herndon, VA 20172 > > -- > Mona Miller > Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ > > > > -- Mona Miller Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Appalachian Tiger Swallowtail (Papilio appalachiensis) From: Mona Miller <runmede AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:39:42 -0500 Congratulations to Harry Pavulaan and David Wright. The Appalachian Tiger Swallowtail (Papilio appalachiensis) is now listed as an official species on the Butterflies and Moths of North America website. http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Papilio-appalachiensis Discoveries like this are part of what "The International Lepidoptera Society (TILS) does. Yesterday, I dropped a check into the mail to help support "The International Lepidoptera Society (TILS). Harry Pavulaan, the current president, treasurer, secretary, editor, needs support to keep TILS going. Make checks payable to TILS. Send them to Harry at his Herndon, PO address. TILS is a non-profit so all donations are tax deductible. Harry Pavulaan / TILS PO Box 1124 Herndon, VA 20172 -- Mona Miller Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ ------------------------------------ Subject: butterfly tagging program From: Scott Baron <brnpelican AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 07:53:55 -0800 (PST) Hi, everyone.   Erin Brockmann, Chief Ranger at Sky Meadows State Park in Fauquier Co., Va. is interested in putting on butterfly programs for the public in 2012 to include tagging and demonstrations.  Can anyone provide her with info on how to put a program like this together, getting permits, etc.?  Are you or do you know anyone who might be interested in helping to lead the program?   I know that Monarchs are tagged for research.  Are other species sometimes tagged in our region as well?   Some of you know first hand that the park is a good place to search for butterflies and that Mary Alexader and Steven Malone lead butterfly walks there each year.   Erin's contact info is below.     Erin Brockmann Chief Ranger - Visitor Services SkyMeadows State Park erin.brockmann AT dcr.virginia.gov 540-592-3556     Thank you and happy holidays,   Scott Baron Vienna, Va. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: Lessons from Insects From: Mona Miller <runmede AT gmail.com> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 11:32:41 -0500 Purely for the sake of survival. On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 10:04 AM, June Tveekrem < damselfly AT southernspreadwing.com> wrote: > ** > > > Who says insects are unselfish? Many of them eat each other. > > June > > -- > June Tveekrem > Columbia, MD, U.S. > damselfly|AT|southernspreadwing.com > http://SouthernSpreadwing.com > > > On 12/9/2011 4:13 PM, Mona Miller wrote: > > http://www.cdispatch.com/robhardy/article.asp?aid=14392 > > Lessons from Insects > > > > "Watch insects, and you learn "that it is possible to be unselfish > > without a moral code, sophisticated without an education, and > > beautiful wearing a skeleton on the outside."..." > > > > -- > > Mona Miller > > Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ > > > -- Mona Miller Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: Lessons from Insects From: June Tveekrem <damselfly AT southernspreadwing.com> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 10:04:13 -0500 Who says insects are unselfish? Many of them eat each other. June -- June Tveekrem Columbia, MD, U.S. damselfly|AT|southernspreadwing.com http://SouthernSpreadwing.com On 12/9/2011 4:13 PM, Mona Miller wrote: > http://www.cdispatch.com/robhardy/article.asp?aid=14392 > Lessons from Insects > > "Watch insects, and you learn "that it is possible to be unselfish > without a moral code, sophisticated without an education, and > beautiful wearing a skeleton on the outside."..." > > -- > Mona Miller > Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 17:19:08 -0500 I was not aware of this until I stopped at the Green Ridge State Forest Hdqts office on my October visit up there, but Buck Moths are apparently so prevalent there that they even had a photograph of one on the billboard alongside their Hdqts parking lot. - Dick Smith -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Garriock Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 4:22 PM To: va-md-de-bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Dick, Thanks for the info on Green ridge state forest. I unsuccessfully spent many lunch breaks searching for fall flying buckmoths around forest near the city of Frederick. I have yet to see a Hemileuca species on the East coast. cheers Rob Garriock, Silver Springs, MD To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com CC: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com From: Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:37:12 -0500 Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Steve, This is about Maryland, so it may not help, but the shale barrens of Green Ridge State Forest in Allegany County, MD were a hotspot for Eastern Buck Moths, and also a virtual invasion of stick insects, on October 9, 2011. Likewise, the caterpillars are pretty numerous up there in some springs, but most people don't realize what they are. I found mostly campers and hunters, rather than pure naturalists, to be on the state forest roads in mid-Fall, so you might have better luck inquiring on listservs with those types of interest groups to obtain additional sight records for Buck Moths. Dick Smith Secretary Maryland Entomological Society From: valeps AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:valeps AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of smrzoology AT comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:39 PM To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Clyde's recent post reminded me that I meant to send out a note over a month ago asking for any Virginia records (sightings, photos or specimens) of Buck Moths (Hemileuca maia) from this fall or past years. I'm aware of 3 other reports so far this year, ranging from 1 to about 50 adults observed. I haven't found many specimens in my searches of museum collections but believe this species is rather widespread in the state (by comparison, it gets quite rare farther north where it is mostly limited to pine barrens and more restricted in its hostplants, primarily to scrub or bear oak only). As most or all of you know, buck moths are diurnal so they aren't attracted to lights like most other saturniids, which partially explains the low number of specimen records. Also, this species flies rather fast, and usually in a straight line, so it isn't netted easily. I'd like to include any and all records of Buck Moths (Hemileuca maia) in a future paper I intend to write on the distribution of silk moths (Saturniidae) in Virginia. At the minimum, I would like the county name, observer(s), and whether the record is based on sightings only, supported by a photograph (digital, slide, print, etc.), or if any specimens were collected. Dates (at least year), more specific locality information, habitat, and exact or approximate number of buck moths observed are also welcomed. Also any records of caterpillars. You can respond to my work (below) or home (above) email address. Thanks. Steve Roble Staff Zoologist Virginia Department ! of Conservation and Recreation Division of Natural Heritage 217 Governor Street Richmond, VA 23219 steve.roble AT dcr.virginia.gov Phone (804) 786-8633 Fax (804) 371-2674 www.dcr.virginia.gov/natural_heritage Editor, Banisteria (2000-) Semiannual journal of the Virginia Natural History Society (www.cmiweb.org/VNHS) Past Editor, Catesbeiana (1998-2007) Semiannual journal of the Virginia Herpetological Society (www.virginiaherpetologicalsociety.com) Co-organizer and co-editor, Richard Hoffman Honorary Symposium and Festschrift Virginia Museum of Natural History Special Publication No. 16 (2009) (www.vmnh.net/store.cfm?itemID=97) ________________________________ From: "Clyde Kessler" To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:58:39 PM Subject: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Today at Fairystone Park, and at Goose Point on Philpott Lake, Patrick County: Orange Sulphur 2 Sleepy Orange 1 nectared on a dandelion Monarch 1 Also one Eastern Buck Moth flying. A lot of Autumn (Yellow-legged) Meadowhawks, and a few damselflies (Enallagma sp.). Best, Clyde Kessler Radford, VA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 From: lance biechele <ltb0076 AT yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 13:52:56 -0800 (PST) Dear Rob,    The season is quite later now, however, I was helping Roy Wilcox, back in the 70's with Buck moth counts on the Eastern end of L. I.,.  They were very common there during October and early November in the dwarf pine barrens at both Westhmpton and Riverhead.    You might contact the Suttons at Cape May County, New Jersey for info about their whereabouts in the pine barrens of NJ.  I'm sure Dick has their address, and that's a little closer for you to travel.    Good luck - they are a spectacular moth, and as Dick has said - only fly in the early morning or late afternoon.   With Best Regards and a very Happy Holiday Season, Lance ________________________________ From: Rob Garriock To: va-md-de-bugs AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 4:21 PM Subject: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Dick,  Thanks for the info on Green ridge state forest.  I unsuccessfully spent many lunch breaks searching for fall flying buckmoths around forest near the city of Frederick.  I have yet to see a Hemileuca species on the East coast. cheers Rob Garriock, Silver Springs, MD To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com CC: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com From: Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:37:12 -0500 Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011                         Steve, This is about Maryland, so it may not help, but the shale barrens of Green Ridge State Forest in Allegany County, MD were a hotspot for Eastern Buck Moths, and also a virtual invasion of stick insects, on October 9, 2011.  Likewise, the caterpillars are pretty numerous up there in some springs, but most people don’t realize what they are.  I found mostly campers and hunters, rather than pure naturalists, to be on the state forest roads in mid-Fall, so you might have better luck inquiring on listservs with those types of interest groups to obtain additional sight records for Buck Moths. Dick Smith Secretary Maryland Entomological Society From: valeps AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:valeps AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of smrzoology AT comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:39 PM To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Clyde's recent post reminded me that I meant to send out a note over a month ago asking for any Virginia records (sightings, photos or specimens) of Buck Moths (Hemileuca maia) from this fall or past years.  I'm aware of 3 other reports so far this year, ranging from 1 to about 50 adults observed. I haven't found many specimens in my searches of museum collections but believe this species is rather widespread in the state (by comparison, it gets quite rare farther north where it is mostly limited to pine barrens and more restricted in its hostplants, primarily to scrub or bear oak only). As most or all of you know, buck moths are diurnal so they aren't attracted to lights like most other saturniids, which partially explains the low number of specimen records. Also, this species flies rather fast, and usually in a straight line, so it isn't netted easily. I'd like to include any and all records of Buck Moths (Hemileuca maia) in a future paper I intend to write on the distribution of silk moths (Saturniidae) in Virginia. At the minimum, I would like the county name, observer(s), and whether the record is based on sightings only, supported by a photograph (digital, slide, print, etc.), or if any specimens were collected. Dates (at least year), more specific locality information, habitat, and exact or approximate number of buck moths observed are also welcomed.  Also any records of caterpillars. You can respond to my work (below) or home (above) email address. Thanks. Steve Roble Staff Zoologist Virginia Department ! of Conservation and Recreation Division of Natural Heritage 217 Governor Street Richmond, VA 23219 steve.roble AT dcr.virginia.gov Phone (804) 786-8633 Fax (804) 371-2674 www.dcr.virginia.gov/natural_heritage Editor, Banisteria (2000-) Semiannual journal of the Virginia Natural History Society (www.cmiweb.org/VNHS) Past Editor, Catesbeiana (1998-2007) Semiannual journal of the Virginia Herpetological Society (www.virginiaherpetologicalsociety.com) Co-organizer and co-editor, Richard Hoffman Honorary Symposium and Festschrift Virginia Museum of Natural History Special Publication No. 16 (2009) (www.vmnh.net/store.cfm?itemID=97) ________________________________ From: "Clyde Kessler" To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:58:39 PM Subject: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Today at Fairystone Park, and at Goose Point on Philpott Lake, Patrick County: Orange Sulphur 2 Sleepy Orange 1 nectared on a dandelion Monarch 1 Also one Eastern Buck Moth flying. A lot of Autumn (Yellow-legged) Meadowhawks, and a few damselflies (Enallagma sp.). Best, Clyde Kessler Radford, VA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]                                           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 From: Rob Garriock <rgarriock AT hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 21:22:00 +0000 Dick, Thanks for the info on Green ridge state forest. I unsuccessfully spent many lunch breaks searching for fall flying buckmoths around forest near the city of Frederick. I have yet to see a Hemileuca species on the East coast. cheers Rob Garriock, Silver Springs, MD To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com CC: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com From: Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:37:12 -0500 Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Steve, This is about Maryland, so it may not help, but the shale barrens of Green Ridge State Forest in Allegany County, MD were a hotspot for Eastern Buck Moths, and also a virtual invasion of stick insects, on October 9, 2011. Likewise, the caterpillars are pretty numerous up there in some springs, but most people don’t realize what they are. I found mostly campers and hunters, rather than pure naturalists, to be on the state forest roads in mid-Fall, so you might have better luck inquiring on listservs with those types of interest groups to obtain additional sight records for Buck Moths. Dick Smith Secretary Maryland Entomological Society From: valeps AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:valeps AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of smrzoology AT comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:39 PM To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Clyde's recent post reminded me that I meant to send out a note over a month ago asking for any Virginia records (sightings, photos or specimens) of Buck Moths (Hemileuca maia) from this fall or past years. I'm aware of 3 other reports so far this year, ranging from 1 to about 50 adults observed. I haven't found many specimens in my searches of museum collections but believe this species is rather widespread in the state (by comparison, it gets quite rare farther north where it is mostly limited to pine barrens and more restricted in its hostplants, primarily to scrub or bear oak only). As most or all of you know, buck moths are diurnal so they aren't attracted to lights like most other saturniids, which partially explains the low number of specimen records. Also, this species flies rather fast, and usually in a straight line, so it isn't netted easily. I'd like to include any and all records of Buck Moths (Hemileuca maia) in a future paper I intend to write on the distribution of silk moths (Saturniidae) in Virginia. At the minimum, I would like the county name, observer(s), and whether the record is based on sightings only, supported by a photograph (digital, slide, print, etc.), or if any specimens were collected. Dates (at least year), more specific locality information, habitat, and exact or approximate number of buck moths observed are also welcomed. Also any records of caterpillars. You can respond to my work (below) or home (above) email address. Thanks. Steve Roble Staff Zoologist Virginia Department ! of Conservation and Recreation Division of Natural Heritage 217 Governor Street Richmond, VA 23219 steve.roble AT dcr.virginia.gov Phone (804) 786-8633 Fax (804) 371-2674 www.dcr.virginia.gov/natural_heritage Editor, Banisteria (2000-) Semiannual journal of the Virginia Natural History Society (www.cmiweb.org/VNHS) Past Editor, Catesbeiana (1998-2007) Semiannual journal of the Virginia Herpetological Society (www.virginiaherpetologicalsociety.com) Co-organizer and co-editor, Richard Hoffman Honorary Symposium and Festschrift Virginia Museum of Natural History Special Publication No. 16 (2009) (www.vmnh.net/store.cfm?itemID=97) ________________________________ From: "Clyde Kessler" To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:58:39 PM Subject: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Today at Fairystone Park, and at Goose Point on Philpott Lake, Patrick County: Orange Sulphur 2 Sleepy Orange 1 nectared on a dandelion Monarch 1 Also one Eastern Buck Moth flying. A lot of Autumn (Yellow-legged) Meadowhawks, and a few damselflies (Enallagma sp.). Best, Clyde Kessler Radford, VA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Life Histories of Cascadia Butterflies From: Mona Miller <runmede AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 16:21:25 -0500 I've put this book on my Amazon, Wish List. http://earthfix.opb.org/flora-and-fauna/article/earthfix-conversations-photographing-the-northwest/ Life Histories of Cascadia Butterflies [I'm taking some excerpts from the article, but there's much more on the book at the above website.] "160 species of butterflies call the Pacific Northwest home. And two researchers have photographed nearly every one of them in their new book, Life Histories of Cascadia Butterflies. The book chronicles every life stage of 159 species, with macro-images of each insect. That’s what makes it special. No other book in the world has this many detailed images of butterflies. Washington State University entomologist David James co-authored the book with Seattle-based naturalist David Nunnallee. James reared many of the butterflies in his house over about 10 to 15 years." "To date, if you get a book on caterpillars, you generally find books with just mature, fifth-stage caterpillar. What we’ve done is provide pictures of all the different stages of caterpillar for all the different butterflies, so that even if you find a young caterpillar, you should be able to identify it." "Yes, there are a number of butterflies that are unique to the Pacific Northwest. The book does cover a lot of butterflies that occur throughout the U.S. and even internationally. But there are probably six at least that occur only in the Pacific Northwest. Some of these are quite rare. There’s an example of a brown butterfly that only occurs in the Pacific Northwest. And that’s an example of a butterfly that hadn’t been reared and documented before." -- Mona Miller Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 From: Rob Garriock <rgarriock AT hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 21:21:14 +0000 Dick, Thanks for the info on Green ridge state forest. I unsuccessfully spent many lunch breaks searching for fall flying buckmoths around forest near the city of Frederick. I have yet to see a Hemileuca species on the East coast. cheers Rob Garriock, Silver Springs, MD To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com CC: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com From: Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:37:12 -0500 Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Steve, This is about Maryland, so it may not help, but the shale barrens of Green Ridge State Forest in Allegany County, MD were a hotspot for Eastern Buck Moths, and also a virtual invasion of stick insects, on October 9, 2011. Likewise, the caterpillars are pretty numerous up there in some springs, but most people don’t realize what they are. I found mostly campers and hunters, rather than pure naturalists, to be on the state forest roads in mid-Fall, so you might have better luck inquiring on listservs with those types of interest groups to obtain additional sight records for Buck Moths. Dick Smith Secretary Maryland Entomological Society From: valeps AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:valeps AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of smrzoology AT comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:39 PM To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Clyde's recent post reminded me that I meant to send out a note over a month ago asking for any Virginia records (sightings, photos or specimens) of Buck Moths (Hemileuca maia) from this fall or past years. I'm aware of 3 other reports so far this year, ranging from 1 to about 50 adults observed. I haven't found many specimens in my searches of museum collections but believe this species is rather widespread in the state (by comparison, it gets quite rare farther north where it is mostly limited to pine barrens and more restricted in its hostplants, primarily to scrub or bear oak only). As most or all of you know, buck moths are diurnal so they aren't attracted to lights like most other saturniids, which partially explains the low number of specimen records. Also, this species flies rather fast, and usually in a straight line, so it isn't netted easily. I'd like to include any and all records of Buck Moths (Hemileuca maia) in a future paper I intend to write on the distribution of silk moths (Saturniidae) in Virginia. At the minimum, I would like the county name, observer(s), and whether the record is based on sightings only, supported by a photograph (digital, slide, print, etc.), or if any specimens were collected. Dates (at least year), more specific locality information, habitat, and exact or approximate number of buck moths observed are also welcomed. Also any records of caterpillars. You can respond to my work (below) or home (above) email address. Thanks. Steve Roble Staff Zoologist Virginia Department ! of Conservation and Recreation Division of Natural Heritage 217 Governor Street Richmond, VA 23219 steve.roble AT dcr.virginia.gov Phone (804) 786-8633 Fax (804) 371-2674 www.dcr.virginia.gov/natural_heritage Editor, Banisteria (2000-) Semiannual journal of the Virginia Natural History Society (www.cmiweb.org/VNHS) Past Editor, Catesbeiana (1998-2007) Semiannual journal of the Virginia Herpetological Society (www.virginiaherpetologicalsociety.com) Co-organizer and co-editor, Richard Hoffman Honorary Symposium and Festschrift Virginia Museum of Natural History Special Publication No. 16 (2009) (www.vmnh.net/store.cfm?itemID=97) ________________________________ From: "Clyde Kessler" To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:58:39 PM Subject: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Today at Fairystone Park, and at Goose Point on Philpott Lake, Patrick County: Orange Sulphur 2 Sleepy Orange 1 nectared on a dandelion Monarch 1 Also one Eastern Buck Moth flying. A lot of Autumn (Yellow-legged) Meadowhawks, and a few damselflies (Enallagma sp.). Best, Clyde Kessler Radford, VA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Lessons from Insects From: Mona Miller <runmede AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 16:13:58 -0500 http://www.cdispatch.com/robhardy/article.asp?aid=14392 Lessons from Insects "Watch insects, and you learn "that it is possible to be unselfish without a moral code, sophisticated without an education, and beautiful wearing a skeleton on the outside."..." -- Mona Miller Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:37:12 -0500 Steve, This is about Maryland, so it may not help, but the shale barrens of Green Ridge State Forest in Allegany County, MD were a hotspot for Eastern Buck Moths, and also a virtual invasion of stick insects, on October 9, 2011. Likewise, the caterpillars are pretty numerous up there in some springs, but most people don’t realize what they are. I found mostly campers and hunters, rather than pure naturalists, to be on the state forest roads in mid-Fall, so you might have better luck inquiring on listservs with those types of interest groups to obtain additional sight records for Buck Moths. Dick Smith Secretary Maryland Entomological Society From: valeps AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:valeps AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of smrzoology AT comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:39 PM To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Clyde's recent post reminded me that I meant to send out a note over a month ago asking for any Virginia records (sightings, photos or specimens) of Buck Moths (Hemileuca maia) from this fall or past years. I'm aware of 3 other reports so far this year, ranging from 1 to about 50 adults observed. I haven't found many specimens in my searches of museum collections but believe this species is rather widespread in the state (by comparison, it gets quite rare farther north where it is mostly limited to pine barrens and more restricted in its hostplants, primarily to scrub or bear oak only). As most or all of you know, buck moths are diurnal so they aren't attracted to lights like most other saturniids, which partially explains the low number of specimen records. Also, this species flies rather fast, and usually in a straight line, so it isn't netted easily. I'd like to include any and all records of Buck Moths (Hemileuca maia) in a future paper I intend to write on the distribution of silk moths (Saturniidae) in Virginia. At the minimum, I would like the county name, observer(s), and whether the record is based on sightings only, supported by a photograph (digital, slide, print, etc.), or if any specimens were collected. Dates (at least year), more specific locality information, habitat, and exact or approximate number of buck moths observed are also welcomed. Also any records of caterpillars. You can respond to my work (below) or home (above) email address. Thanks. Steve Roble Staff Zoologist Virginia Department ! of Conservation and Recreation Division of Natural Heritage 217 Governor Street Richmond, VA 23219 steve.roble AT dcr.virginia.gov Phone (804) 786-8633 Fax (804) 371-2674 www.dcr.virginia.gov/natural_heritage Editor, Banisteria (2000-) Semiannual journal of the Virginia Natural History Society (www.cmiweb.org/VNHS) Past Editor, Catesbeiana (1998-2007) Semiannual journal of the Virginia Herpetological Society (www.virginiaherpetologicalsociety.com) Co-organizer and co-editor, Richard Hoffman Honorary Symposium and Festschrift Virginia Museum of Natural History Special Publication No. 16 (2009) (www.vmnh.net/store.cfm?itemID=97) ________________________________ From: "Clyde Kessler" To: valeps AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:58:39 PM Subject: [valeps] a few Patrick County Butterflies, 20 Nov 2011 Today at Fairystone Park, and at Goose Point on Philpott Lake, Patrick County: Orange Sulphur 2 Sleepy Orange 1 nectared on a dandelion Monarch 1 Also one Eastern Buck Moth flying. A lot of Autumn (Yellow-legged) Meadowhawks, and a few damselflies (Enallagma sp.). Best, Clyde Kessler Radford, VA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: DNA Technology: Discovering New Species From: Mona Miller <runmede AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 08:37:15 -0500 http://e360.yale.edu/feature/dna_technology_discovering_new_species/2019/#.Ttz0MQN5_qM.facebook "DNA Technology: Discovering New Species*By taking bits of a single gene, scientists are using DNA barcoding to identify new species. If a portable hand-held scanning device can be developed, one ecologist says, it could “do for biodiversity what the printing press did for literacy.”"* -- Mona Miller Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ *Washington** Area Butterfly Club* *E*ducation, *a*ppreciation, *c*onservation of *b*utterflies. Membership for 2011 & 2012 only $10 to help keep us flying. http://leplog.wordpress.com/washington-area-butterfly-club/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: December sulphurs From: Sheryl Pollock <sopol AT yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 15:08:38 -0800 (PST) We had several clouded sulphurs this weekend at the Northern Neck. There were a few flowers blooming (Field Pennycress, Wintercress, Dandelion, Yarrow, Henbit, first year Goldenrod, a few cherries) with frost in the morning.   Sheryl Pollock Herndon, VA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: December sulphurs From: Rick Borchelt <rborchelt AT gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 16:05:32 -0500 During my FINALLy successful 6 hour twitch vigil for the LeConte's Sparrow (which probably would have come to naught without Mikey Lutmerding flushing it out of the reed bed), I at least had the satisfaction of seeing a half dozen or so Clouded Sulphurs working the fields and marsh edges at Swan Harbor SP in Harford Co. My latest personal date for MD sulphurs. Anyone have any experience with Swan Harbor during the flight season? Looks like an interesting wetland with a number of nectar sources. ------------------------------------ Subject: Scientist, amateurs find new South Florida butterfly species From: Mona Miller <runmede AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 10:20:10 -0500 http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-12-01/news/fl-new-butterfly-20111201_1_atala-chapter-statira-sulphur-lepidoptera Scientist, amateurs find new South Florida butterfly species -- Mona Miller Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ *Washington** Area Butterfly Club* *E*ducation, *a*ppreciation, *c*onservation of *b*utterflies. Membership for 2011 & 2012 only $10 to help keep us flying. http://leplog.wordpress.com/washington-area-butterfly-club/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) From: Mona Miller <runmede AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 23:50:23 -0500 I fixed a Monarch wing break once with the orange and white tags left over from the Monarch Watch tagging kits (those that aren't supposed to be used). The butterfly flew from 8/25 until I found her dead on 9/18. She nectared, mated, and laid eggs during that time. http://www.monarchwatch.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2423 BTW. The reason the discussion started on handling butterflies was due to the person who wrote the article and posted the video. [I thought it was a good idea to hear what other people thought.] This is what they said: "Did any of you cringe whilst watching the narrator pick up the butterfly by its wings with his fingers? I was always told not to do that because the oils on my skin would damage or destroy the delicate scales on the butterfly wings." http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/punctuated-equilibrium/2011/nov/30/1 On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Alonso Abugattas wrote: > ** > > > Agreed. I've heard of several people who have repaired butterfly wings > successfully. As I said before, they're very resilient creatures and not > that delicate. I'm just pointing out that that those irreplaceable scales > fall off all the time and that the danger of handling a butterfly > is exaggerated unless done incorrectly or callously. Thanks. > > > > Alonso > ------------------------------ > >> >> * >> * > > -- > Mona Miller > Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ > *Washington** Area Butterfly Club* > *E*ducation, *a*ppreciation, *c*onservation of *b*utterflies. > Membership for 2011 & 2012 only $10 to help keep us flying. > http://leplog.wordpress.com/washington-area-butterfly-club/ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) From: Alonso Abugattas <aabugattas AT arlingtonva.us> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 03:57:53 +0000 Agreed. I've heard of several people who have repaired butterfly wings successfully. As I said before, they're very resilient creatures and not that delicate. I'm just pointing out that that those irreplaceable scales fall off all the time and that the danger of handling a butterfly is exaggerated unless done incorrectly or callously. Thanks. Alonso ________________________________ From: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com [washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Mona Miller [runmede AT gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:41 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Cc: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [washbutterflies] RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) Actually repairing a butterflies wing can extend its life. Harry Pavulaan recently repaired a Monarch wing for a friend. The butterfly flew off. All I am saying is that I will think more about what I am doing when I decided to handle a butterfly, scales can never be replaced and they are necessary for the butterflies survival. http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/zoology/insects-arachnids/butterfly-wing-fragility1.htm On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Alonso Abugattas > wrote: Now that I'm at a computer and can look up some info, please (in addition to my original reply) check: http://www.lepsoc.org/frequently_asked_questions.php#7 or http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/3135/will-a-mere-touch-kill-a-butterfly which answers this question directly. Or try http://www.butterflydatabase.com/article.php?mypage=119 or maybe http://insects.about.com/od/butterfliesmoths/f/touch_butterfly_die.htm Notice the mention of worn butterflies we're all familiar with. Also, not always my favorite source but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly Didn't this discussion even start because of a video of fixing a torn butterfly wing which is so much more damaging than actually handling and having the insect lose scales it loses everyday all the time? Like some of the others who have replied, I think this threat is overly stressed and not as big a deal as some may think. Bottom line, if you'd prefer not to touch a butterfly, that's fine, but handling them correctly can be useful and really does not lead to the great harm people seem to fear. They're not that delicate or they would not survive in the wild for very long. Thanks. Alonso ________________________________ -- Mona Miller Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ Washington Area Butterfly Club Education, appreciation, conservation of butterflies. Membership for 2011 & 2012 only $10 to help keep us flying. http://leplog.wordpress.com/washington-area-butterfly-club/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) From: Mona Miller <runmede AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 22:41:07 -0500 Actually repairing a butterflies wing can extend its life. Harry Pavulaan recently repaired a Monarch wing for a friend. The butterfly flew off. All I am saying is that I will think more about what I am doing when I decided to handle a butterfly, scales can never be replaced and they are necessary for the butterflies survival. http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/zoology/insects-arachnids/butterfly-wing-fragility1.htm On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Alonso Abugattas wrote: > Now that I'm at a computer and can look up some info, please (in addition > to my original reply) check: > > http://www.lepsoc.org/frequently_asked_questions.php#7 or > > > http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/3135/will-a-mere-touch-kill-a-butterflywhich answers this question directly. Or try > > http://www.butterflydatabase.com/article.php?mypage=119 or maybe > > http://insects.about.com/od/butterfliesmoths/f/touch_butterfly_die.htm Notice the mention of worn butterflies we're all familiar with. > > Also, not always my favorite source but: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly > > Didn't this discussion even start because of a video of fixing a torn > butterfly wing which is so much more damaging than actually handling and > having the insect lose scales it loses everyday all the time? Like some of > the others who have replied, I think this threat is overly stressed and not > as big a deal as some may think. Bottom line, if you'd prefer not to touch > a butterfly, that's fine, but handling them correctly can be useful and > really does not lead to the great harm people seem to fear. They're not > that delicate or they would not survive in the wild for very long. Thanks. > > > > Alonso > > ________________________________ > -- Mona Miller Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ *Washington** Area Butterfly Club* *E*ducation, *a*ppreciation, *c*onservation of *b*utterflies. Membership for 2011 & 2012 only $10 to help keep us flying. http://leplog.wordpress.com/washington-area-butterfly-club/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) From: Alonso Abugattas <aabugattas AT arlingtonva.us> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 03:16:47 +0000 Now that I'm at a computer and can look up some info, please (in addition to my original reply) check: http://www.lepsoc.org/frequently_asked_questions.php#7 or http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/3135/will-a-mere-touch-kill-a-butterfly which answers this question directly. Or try http://www.butterflydatabase.com/article.php?mypage=119 or maybe http://insects.about.com/od/butterfliesmoths/f/touch_butterfly_die.htm Notice the mention of worn butterflies we're all familiar with. Also, not always my favorite source but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly Didn't this discussion even start because of a video of fixing a torn butterfly wing which is so much more damaging than actually handling and having the insect lose scales it loses everyday all the time? Like some of the others who have replied, I think this threat is overly stressed and not as big a deal as some may think. Bottom line, if you'd prefer not to touch a butterfly, that's fine, but handling them correctly can be useful and really does not lead to the great harm people seem to fear. They're not that delicate or they would not survive in the wild for very long. Thanks. Alonso ________________________________ From: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com [washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com] on behalf of alonsolucy AT aol.com [alonsolucy AT aol.com] Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 9:21 PM To: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Cc: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [washbutterflies] RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) Same reply as I sent before: sure you can damage the smaller butterflies in particular by improperly handling them, but they're tougher than many folks think because of the reasons I already stated below. Many butterflies can actually fly with 1/3 of their hind wings missing. The story of not handling butterflies was started for a good reason: to keep mostly kids from potentially accidentally hurting them. But it's overly simplistic and many particularly large butterflies can be handled safely and have been numerous times with no more wear-and-tear than they regularly receive during their escapes from such things as predators, storms, etc. Of course if folks prefer not to do so, then they don't have to. Thanks. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ________________________________ From: Mona Miller Sender: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 19:31:19 -0500 To: ReplyTo: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com Cc: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [washbutterflies] RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) http://blog.mcse-security.net/2008/01/never-touch-butterfly-wing-with-your.html "Butterfly has four wings; a pair of forewings and a pair of hindwings. These wings are composed of two very fine membrane layers (chitonous) which are supported and nourished by tubular veins (also functions in breathing). Tiny sockets in these membranes hold each individual scale, providing further support to the delicate wing. The scales are arranged in such a pattern, overlapping each other like shingles on a roof. Butterfly wings will not be structurally sound and strong if you remove a bunch of them, thus harming the small insect. This ridges of our fingerprint or oil on our skin is more than enough to pry these wing scales loose, even with the slightest (caring) touch. The dust that comes off, when you touch a butterfly is its wing scales. Be careful next time you wish to touch it! You could endanger it's life without meaning to harm it." On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Alonso Abugattas > wrote: I agree with Dick: you can handle butterflies carefully and not really harm them. I actually handle larger butterflies at least a couple of times to demonstrate several things whenever I conduct a program. I would say that kids shouldn't, that inexperienced folks would have to be very careful and maybe not recommended they try, and that you need not do it very often. In addition to what Dick said about handling, I would add a couple of things. The scales do come off, but they come off regularly throughout a butterflies life anyways (we've all seen "fresh" specimens as opposed to older ones). They can act as a defensive device to avoid spider webs and such. I sometimes explain lep wing scales by comparing them to bird feathers: they serve similar functions in display and can fall off regularly to aid in a bird's escape, but lose too many and they can't fly. They would have to lose a whole lot of feathers/scales however to do so. Many butterflies can actually fly with whole parts of their wings (particular the hindwings) missing. In fact, that's one reason for the fake eyes, tails, and such extensions on many species like hairstreaks, swallowtails, and such. The predator hits the "wrong" end thinking it to be the head, and end up with a bit of wing, but the butterfly flies off. Many of us have seen specimens with beak marks and missing wing parts. Just a few thoughts on the matter. Alonso -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mona Miller Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 5:44 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com; washbutterflies Subject: Re: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) I found this very interesting. Some of the smaller butterflies are very fragile. Monarchs have much stronger wings. http://blog.mcse-security.net/2008/01/never-touch-butterfly-wing-with-your.html "Butterfly has four wings; a pair of forewings and a pair of hindwings. These wings are composed of two very fine membrane layers (chitonous) which are supported and nourished by tubular veins (also functions in breathing). Tiny sockets in these membranes hold each individual scale, providing further support to the delicate wing. The scales are arranged in such a pattern, overlapping each other like shingles on a roof. Butterfly wings will not be structurally sound and strong if you remove a bunch of them, thus harming the small insect. This ridges of our fingerprint or oil on our skin is more than enough to pry these wing scales loose, even with the slightest (caring) touch. The dust that comes off, when you touch a butterfly is its wing scales. Be careful next time you wish to touch it! You could endanger it's life without meaning to harm it." Mona Miller Herndon, VA On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Kirchner, Kevin W USA CIV (US) > wrote: > Mona > Somewhere along the way an expert said to a group that I was a part of that it doesn't harm their ability to fly it just makes the wings look less attractive. > Kevin > > -----Original Message----- > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mona Miller > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:04 PM > To: washbutterflies; VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com; > valeps AT yahoogroups.com; dplex-l AT listproc.cc.ku.edu > Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (Touching Butterflies with Hands) > > Do you agree or disagree that one should not touch a butterfly wing with their hands? > > "Did any of you cringe whilst watching the narrator pick up the butterfly by its wings with his fingers? I was always told not to do that because the oils on my skin would damage or destroy the delicate scales on the butterfly wings." > http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/punctuated-equilibrium/2011/nov/30/1 > nov/30/1> > > -- > Mona Miller > Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ > Washington Area Butterfly Club > Education, appreciation, conservation of butterflies. > Membership for 2011 & 2012 only $10 to help keep us flying. > http://leplog.wordpress.com/washington-area-butterfly-club/ > > ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: RE: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) From: Mona Miller <runmede AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 19:31:19 -0500 http://blog.mcse-security.net/2008/01/never-touch-butterfly-wing-with-your.html "Butterfly has four wings; a pair of forewings and a pair of hindwings. These wings are composed of two very fine membrane layers (chitonous) which are supported and nourished by tubular veins (also functions in breathing).Tiny sockets in these membranes hold each individual scale, providing further support to the delicate wing. The scales are arranged in such a pattern, overlapping each other like shingles on a roof. Butterfly wings will not be structurally sound and strong if you remove a bunch of them, thus harming the small insect. This ridges of our fingerprint or oil on our skin is more than enough to pry these wing scales loose, even with the slightest (caring) touch. The dust that comes off, when you touch a butterfly is its wing scales. Be careful next time you wish to touch it! You could endanger it's life without meaning to harm it." On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Alonso Abugattas wrote: > ** > > > I agree with Dick: you can handle butterflies carefully and not really > harm them. I actually handle larger butterflies at least a couple of times > to demonstrate several things whenever I conduct a program. I would say > that kids shouldn't, that inexperienced folks would have to be very careful > and maybe not recommended they try, and that you need not do it very often. > In addition to what Dick said about handling, I would add a couple of > things. The scales do come off, but they come off regularly throughout a > butterflies life anyways (we've all seen "fresh" specimens as opposed to > older ones). They can act as a defensive device to avoid spider webs and > such. I sometimes explain lep wing scales by comparing them to bird > feathers: they serve similar functions in display and can fall off > regularly to aid in a bird's escape, but lose too many and they can't fly. > They would have to lose a whole lot of feathers/scales however to do so. > Many butterflies can actually fly with whole parts of their wings > (particular the hindwings) missing. In fact, that's one reason for the fake > eyes, tails, and such extensions on many species like hairstreaks, > swallowtails, and such. The predator hits the "wrong" end thinking it to be > the head, and end up with a bit of wing, but the butterfly flies off. Many > of us have seen specimens with beak marks and missing wing parts. Just a > few thoughts on the matter. > > Alonso > > > -----Original Message----- > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Mona Miller > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 5:44 PM > To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com; washbutterflies > Subject: Re: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) > > I found this very interesting. Some of the smaller butterflies are very > fragile. Monarchs have much stronger wings. > > > http://blog.mcse-security.net/2008/01/never-touch-butterfly-wing-with-your.html > "Butterfly has four wings; a pair of forewings and a pair of hindwings. > These wings are composed of two very fine membrane layers > (chitonous) which are supported and nourished by tubular veins (also > functions in breathing). Tiny sockets in these membranes hold each > individual scale, providing further support to the delicate wing. The > scales are arranged in such a pattern, overlapping each other like shingles > on a roof. Butterfly wings will not be structurally sound and strong if you > remove a bunch of them, thus harming the small insect. > This ridges of our fingerprint or oil on our skin is more than enough to > pry these wing scales loose, even with the slightest (caring) touch. The > dust that comes off, when you touch a butterfly is its wing scales. Be > careful next time you wish to touch it! You could endanger it's life > without meaning to harm it." > > Mona Miller > Herndon, VA > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Kirchner, Kevin W USA CIV (US) < > kevin.w.kirchner.civ AT mail.mil> wrote: > > Mona > > Somewhere along the way an expert said to a group that I was a part of > that it doesn't harm their ability to fly it just makes the wings look less > attractive. > > Kevin > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mona Miller > > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:04 PM > > To: washbutterflies; VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com; > > valeps AT yahoogroups.com; dplex-l AT listproc.cc.ku.edu > > Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (Touching Butterflies with Hands) > > > > Do you agree or disagree that one should not touch a butterfly wing with > their hands? > > > > "Did any of you cringe whilst watching the narrator pick up the > butterfly by its wings with his fingers? I was always told not to do that > because the oils on my skin would damage or destroy the delicate scales on > the butterfly wings." > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/punctuated-equilibrium/2011/nov/30/1 > > > nov/30/1> > > > > -- > > Mona Miller > > Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ > > Washington Area Butterfly Club > > Education, appreciation, conservation of butterflies. > > Membership for 2011 & 2012 only $10 to help keep us flying. > > http://leplog.wordpress.com/washington-area-butterfly-club/ > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Subject: RE: Re: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 18:41:41 -0500 Oh, I bet the collectors only wish they could be so influential. I think it was just one of those rumors that was only debunked by the minutely small number of people who actually tried to obtain undamaged specimens for their collections. - Dick -----Original Message----- From: washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:washbutterflies AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Borchelt Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 6:12 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com Cc: washbutterflies Subject: [washbutterflies] Re: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) My sneaking suspicion is that the "don't handle" phobia originated more from collectors wanting pristine specimens than from actual concern for the leps .... On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Rick Borchelt wrote: > Not that I dispute the blogger, but he's a student with no discernible > credentials or expertise whose favorite book is the Da Vinci Code and > band is Metallica.  Interesting, yes; credible, not so much.  (and his > grammar and punctuation are awful! ...) > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Mona Miller wrote: >> I found this very interesting.  Some of the smaller butterflies are >> very fragile.  Monarchs have much stronger wings. >> >> http://blog.mcse-security.net/2008/01/never-touch-butterfly-wing-with-your.html >> "Butterfly has four wings; a pair of forewings and a pair of >> hindwings. These wings are composed of two very fine membrane layers >> (chitonous) which are supported and nourished by tubular veins (also >> functions in breathing). Tiny sockets in these membranes hold each >> individual scale, providing further support to the delicate wing. The >> scales are arranged in such a pattern, overlapping each other like >> shingles on a roof. Butterfly wings will not be structurally sound and >> strong if you remove a bunch of them, thus harming the small insect. >> This ridges of our fingerprint or oil on our skin is more than enough >> to pry these wing scales loose, even with the slightest (caring) >> touch. The dust that comes off, when you touch a butterfly is its wing >> scales. Be careful next time you wish to touch it! You could endanger >> it's life without meaning to harm it." >> >> Mona Miller >> Herndon, VA >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Kirchner, Kevin W USA CIV (US) >> wrote: >>> Mona >>> Somewhere along the way an expert said to a group that I was a part of that it doesn't harm their ability to fly it just makes the wings look less attractive. >>> Kevin >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mona Miller >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:04 PM >>> To: washbutterflies; VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com; valeps AT yahoogroups.com; dplex-l AT listproc.cc.ku.edu >>> Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (Touching Butterflies with Hands) >>> >>> Do you agree or disagree that one should not touch a butterfly wing with their hands? >>> >>> "Did any of you cringe whilst watching the narrator pick up the butterfly by its wings with his fingers? I was always told not to do that because the oils on my skin would damage or destroy the delicate scales on the butterfly wings." >>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/punctuated-equilibrium/2011/nov/30/1 >>> >>> -- >>> Mona Miller >>> Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ >>> Washington Area Butterfly Club >>> Education, appreciation, conservation of butterflies. >>> Membership for 2011 & 2012 only $10 to help keep us flying. >>> http://leplog.wordpress.com/washington-area-butterfly-club/ >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Re: Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) From: Rick Borchelt <rborchelt AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 18:12:25 -0500 My sneaking suspicion is that the "don't handle" phobia originated more from collectors wanting pristine specimens than from actual concern for the leps .... On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Rick Borchelt wrote: > Not that I dispute the blogger, but he's a student with no discernible > credentials or expertise whose favorite book is the Da Vinci Code and > band is Metallica.  Interesting, yes; credible, not so much.  (and his > grammar and punctuation are awful! ...) > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Mona Miller wrote: >> I found this very interesting.  Some of the smaller butterflies are >> very fragile.  Monarchs have much stronger wings. >> >> http://blog.mcse-security.net/2008/01/never-touch-butterfly-wing-with-your.html >> "Butterfly has four wings; a pair of forewings and a pair of >> hindwings. These wings are composed of two very fine membrane layers >> (chitonous) which are supported and nourished by tubular veins (also >> functions in breathing). Tiny sockets in these membranes hold each >> individual scale, providing further support to the delicate wing. The >> scales are arranged in such a pattern, overlapping each other like >> shingles on a roof. Butterfly wings will not be structurally sound and >> strong if you remove a bunch of them, thus harming the small insect. >> This ridges of our fingerprint or oil on our skin is more than enough >> to pry these wing scales loose, even with the slightest (caring) >> touch. The dust that comes off, when you touch a butterfly is its wing >> scales. Be careful next time you wish to touch it! You could endanger >> it’s life without meaning to harm it." >> >> Mona Miller >> Herndon, VA >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Kirchner, Kevin W USA CIV (US) >> wrote: >>> Mona >>> Somewhere along the way an expert said to a group that I was a part of that it doesn't harm their ability to fly it just makes the wings look less attractive. >>> Kevin >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mona Miller >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:04 PM >>> To: washbutterflies; VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com; valeps AT yahoogroups.com; dplex-l AT listproc.cc.ku.edu >>> Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (Touching Butterflies with Hands) >>> >>> Do you agree or disagree that one should not touch a butterfly wing with their hands? >>> >>> "Did any of you cringe whilst watching the narrator pick up the butterfly by its wings with his fingers? I was always told not to do that because the oils on my skin would damage or destroy the delicate scales on the butterfly wings." >>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/punctuated-equilibrium/2011/nov/30/1 >>> >>> -- >>> Mona Miller >>> Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ >>> Washington Area Butterfly Club >>> Education, appreciation, conservation of butterflies. >>> Membership for 2011 & 2012 only $10 to help keep us flying. >>> http://leplog.wordpress.com/washington-area-butterfly-club/ >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Re: Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) From: Rick Borchelt <rborchelt AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 18:10:48 -0500 Not that I dispute the blogger, but he's a student with no discernible credentials or expertise whose favorite book is the Da Vinci Code and band is Metallica. Interesting, yes; credible, not so much. (and his grammar and punctuation are awful! ...) On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Mona Miller wrote: > I found this very interesting.  Some of the smaller butterflies are > very fragile.  Monarchs have much stronger wings. > > http://blog.mcse-security.net/2008/01/never-touch-butterfly-wing-with-your.html > "Butterfly has four wings; a pair of forewings and a pair of > hindwings. These wings are composed of two very fine membrane layers > (chitonous) which are supported and nourished by tubular veins (also > functions in breathing). Tiny sockets in these membranes hold each > individual scale, providing further support to the delicate wing. The > scales are arranged in such a pattern, overlapping each other like > shingles on a roof. Butterfly wings will not be structurally sound and > strong if you remove a bunch of them, thus harming the small insect. > This ridges of our fingerprint or oil on our skin is more than enough > to pry these wing scales loose, even with the slightest (caring) > touch. The dust that comes off, when you touch a butterfly is its wing > scales. Be careful next time you wish to touch it! You could endanger > it’s life without meaning to harm it." > > Mona Miller > Herndon, VA > > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Kirchner, Kevin W USA CIV (US) > wrote: >> Mona >> Somewhere along the way an expert said to a group that I was a part of that it doesn't harm their ability to fly it just makes the wings look less attractive. >> Kevin >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mona Miller >> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:04 PM >> To: washbutterflies; VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com; valeps AT yahoogroups.com; dplex-l AT listproc.cc.ku.edu >> Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (Touching Butterflies with Hands) >> >> Do you agree or disagree that one should not touch a butterfly wing with their hands? >> >> "Did any of you cringe whilst watching the narrator pick up the butterfly by its wings with his fingers? I was always told not to do that because the oils on my skin would damage or destroy the delicate scales on the butterfly wings." >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/punctuated-equilibrium/2011/nov/30/1 >> >> -- >> Mona Miller >> Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ >> Washington Area Butterfly Club >> Education, appreciation, conservation of butterflies. >> Membership for 2011 & 2012 only $10 to help keep us flying. >> http://leplog.wordpress.com/washington-area-butterfly-club/ >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Subject: RE: Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) From: Alonso Abugattas <aabugattas AT arlingtonva.us> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 23:09:54 +0000 I agree with Dick: you can handle butterflies carefully and not really harm them. I actually handle larger butterflies at least a couple of times to demonstrate several things whenever I conduct a program. I would say that kids shouldn't, that inexperienced folks would have to be very careful and maybe not recommended they try, and that you need not do it very often. In addition to what Dick said about handling, I would add a couple of things. The scales do come off, but they come off regularly throughout a butterflies life anyways (we've all seen "fresh" specimens as opposed to older ones). They can act as a defensive device to avoid spider webs and such. I sometimes explain lep wing scales by comparing them to bird feathers: they serve similar functions in display and can fall off regularly to aid in a bird's escape, but lose too many and they can't fly. They would have to lose a whole lot of feathers/scales however to do so. Many butterflies can actually fly with whole parts of their wings (particular the hindwings) missing. In fact, that's one reason for the fake eyes, tails, and such extensions on many species like hairstreaks, swallowtails, and such. The predator hits the "wrong" end thinking it to be the head, and end up with a bit of wing, but the butterfly flies off. Many of us have seen specimens with beak marks and missing wing parts. Just a few thoughts on the matter. Alonso -----Original Message----- From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mona Miller Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 5:44 PM To: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com; washbutterflies Subject: Re: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) I found this very interesting. Some of the smaller butterflies are very fragile. Monarchs have much stronger wings. http://blog.mcse-security.net/2008/01/never-touch-butterfly-wing-with-your.html "Butterfly has four wings; a pair of forewings and a pair of hindwings. These wings are composed of two very fine membrane layers (chitonous) which are supported and nourished by tubular veins (also functions in breathing). Tiny sockets in these membranes hold each individual scale, providing further support to the delicate wing. The scales are arranged in such a pattern, overlapping each other like shingles on a roof. Butterfly wings will not be structurally sound and strong if you remove a bunch of them, thus harming the small insect. This ridges of our fingerprint or oil on our skin is more than enough to pry these wing scales loose, even with the slightest (caring) touch. The dust that comes off, when you touch a butterfly is its wing scales. Be careful next time you wish to touch it! You could endanger it's life without meaning to harm it." Mona Miller Herndon, VA On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Kirchner, Kevin W USA CIV (US) wrote: > Mona > Somewhere along the way an expert said to a group that I was a part of that it doesn't harm their ability to fly it just makes the wings look less attractive. > Kevin > > -----Original Message----- > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com > [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mona Miller > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:04 PM > To: washbutterflies; VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com; > valeps AT yahoogroups.com; dplex-l AT listproc.cc.ku.edu > Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (Touching Butterflies with Hands) > > Do you agree or disagree that one should not touch a butterfly wing with their hands? > > "Did any of you cringe whilst watching the narrator pick up the butterfly by its wings with his fingers? I was always told not to do that because the oils on my skin would damage or destroy the delicate scales on the butterfly wings." > http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/punctuated-equilibrium/2011/nov/30/1 > nov/30/1> > > -- > Mona Miller > Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ > Washington Area Butterfly Club > Education, appreciation, conservation of butterflies. > Membership for 2011 & 2012 only $10 to help keep us flying. > http://leplog.wordpress.com/washington-area-butterfly-club/ > > ------------------------------------ Subject: Re: Wing Fix (UNCLASSIFIED) From: Mona Miller <runmede AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 17:44:13 -0500 I found this very interesting. Some of the smaller butterflies are very fragile. Monarchs have much stronger wings. http://blog.mcse-security.net/2008/01/never-touch-butterfly-wing-with-your.html "Butterfly has four wings; a pair of forewings and a pair of hindwings. These wings are composed of two very fine membrane layers (chitonous) which are supported and nourished by tubular veins (also functions in breathing). Tiny sockets in these membranes hold each individual scale, providing further support to the delicate wing. The scales are arranged in such a pattern, overlapping each other like shingles on a roof. Butterfly wings will not be structurally sound and strong if you remove a bunch of them, thus harming the small insect. This ridges of our fingerprint or oil on our skin is more than enough to pry these wing scales loose, even with the slightest (caring) touch. The dust that comes off, when you touch a butterfly is its wing scales. Be careful next time you wish to touch it! You could endanger it’s life without meaning to harm it." Mona Miller Herndon, VA On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Kirchner, Kevin W USA CIV (US) wrote: > Mona > Somewhere along the way an expert said to a group that I was a part of that it doesn't harm their ability to fly it just makes the wings look less attractive. > Kevin > > -----Original Message----- > From: VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mona Miller > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:04 PM > To: washbutterflies; VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com; valeps AT yahoogroups.com; dplex-l AT listproc.cc.ku.edu > Subject: [VA-MD-DE-Bugs] Wing Fix (Touching Butterflies with Hands) > > Do you agree or disagree that one should not touch a butterfly wing with their hands? > > "Did any of you cringe whilst watching the narrator pick up the butterfly by its wings with his fingers? I was always told not to do that because the oils on my skin would damage or destroy the delicate scales on the butterfly wings." > http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/punctuated-equilibrium/2011/nov/30/1 > > -- > Mona Miller > Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ > Washington Area Butterfly Club > Education, appreciation, conservation of butterflies. > Membership for 2011 & 2012 only $10 to help keep us flying. > http://leplog.wordpress.com/washington-area-butterfly-club/ > > ------------------------------------ Subject: RE: [valeps] Wing Fix (Touching Butterflies with Hands) From: "Smith, Richard H." <Richard.Smith AT jhuapl.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 12:17:26 -0500 Mona, In response to your question about touching butterfly wings, here is a website that summarizes the situation and which I pretty much agree with. http://insects.about.com/od/butterfliesmoths/f/touch_butterfly_die.htm In summary, finger handling is not necessarily damaging. However, I would caveat that handling a butterfly without damaging it takes practice for most adult people, and I would recommend against it for children because most children do not have the requisite manual dexterity. In most cases, clean fingers do not impart enough skin oils on the wing surface to remove significant scales or weaken wing membrane. Even Bob Pyle has quoted this on field trips I have attended with him. It is however, very easy to tear wing membrane and crimp, crush, or break the weaker wing veins during finger manipulation if you are not very careful, and this will of course impair the butterfly's ability to fly afterwards. So, it is critical that the thorax (and never the abdomen or head) be grasped lightly and only ventrally (so that the wings are folded dorsally) and that the folded wings are only grasped lightly (just enough to keep them immobile) by contact with the stronger wing veins near the thorax and primarily on the forewing veins. (Grasping only the forewing inner margins or only the hindwings will lead to disaster.) For smaller butterflies, one's fingers are usually too large to do all this precisely and lightly enough, so in this case one usually needs flat-faced forceps to accomplish it properly. Dick Smith From: valeps AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:valeps AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mona Miller Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:04 PM To: washbutterflies; VA-MD-DE-Bugs AT yahoogroups.com; valeps AT yahoogroups.com; dplex-l AT listproc.cc.ku.edu Subject: [valeps] Wing Fix (Touching Butterflies with Hands) Do you agree or disagree that one should not touch a butterfly wing with their hands? "Did any of you cringe whilst watching the narrator pick up the butterfly by its wings with his fingers? I was always told not to do that because the oils on my skin would damage or destroy the delicate scales on the butterfly wings." http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/punctuated-equilibrium/2011/nov/30/1 -- Mona Miller Herndon, VA (USA) }i{ }i{ }i{ Washington Area Butterfly Club Education, appreciation, conservation of butterflies. Membership for 2011 & 2012 only $10 to help keep us flying. http://leplog.wordpress.com/washington-area-butterfly-club/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------