Birdingonthe.Net Recent Postings from Montana Birding > Home > Mail > Alerts Updated on Thursday, September 2 at 10:21 AM ET The most recently received Mail is at the top.	Cuban Trogon,©Jan Wilczur

2 Sep Different experience with photos on MOBI II [Susie ] 02 Sep aug pics [Carlene Farmer ] 2 Sep Viewing poll photosI uII [Susie ] 02 Sep Re: Poll Troubles ["Patrick A. Toomey Jr." ] 02 Sep Re: Poll Troubles ["JG" ] 02 Sep Re: Poll Troubles ["Patrick A. Toomey Jr." ] 02 Sep Poll Troubles ["davewillmt" ] 02 Sep Re: New poll for MOB-Montana ["JG" ] 02 Sep Re: Anna's Hummingbird report not valid.... ["JG" ] 2 Sep New poll for MOB-Montana [] 02 Sep Anna's Hummingbird report not valid.... ["JG" ] 02 Sep Re: white-winged dove south of great f alls ["JG" ] 02 Sep Re: white-winged dove south of great f alls ["Dan Casey" ] 01 Sep Re: white-winged dove south of great f alls ["mtbetta" ] 01 Sep Re: white-winged dove south of great f alls ["JG" ] 01 Sep white-winged dove south of great f alls ["mtbetta" ] 01 Sep NWRA photo contest ["misfire4522" ] 1 Sep New poll for MOB-Montana [] 01 Sep Lesser Black-backed Gull ["Gary Swant" ] 31 Aug Re: Birds and sheep ["Dan Casey" ] 31 Aug now. back to birding ["JG" ] 31 Aug Re: Birds and sheep ["JG" ] 31 Aug Freezout A.M. Ruddy Turnstone, Sanderling ["Larry Carter" ] 31 Aug Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics ["JG" ] 31 Aug Re: Birds and sheep [Chadeayne Roush ] 31 Aug Birds and sheep [] 31 Aug Re: Feathers, bills and tumors ["Dan Casey" ] 31 Aug Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics ["JG" ] 31 Aug Feathers, bills and tumors [] 31 Aug Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics ["John Carlson" ] 31 Aug Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics [] 31 Aug Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics ["John Carlson" ] 31 Aug Re: Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics [Alan Nelson ] 31 Aug Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics ["Dan Casey" ] 31 Aug AUgust Photo Contest Pics ["Patrick A. Toomey Jr." ] 31 Aug Re: Montana Bird List and sort numbers ["Patrick A. Toomey Jr." ] 31 Aug Re: feather growth ["JG" ] 31 Aug Re: Insect populations and feather growth ["JG" ] 31 Aug Re: Montana Bird List and sort numbers ["JG" ] 30 Aug Insect populations and feather growth [Kristi DuBois ] 31 Aug New Birder ["Jeffrey Cohen" ] 30 Aug Re: Re: Montana Bird List and sort numbers ["Jeff Marks" ] 31 Aug Re: Montana Bird List and sort numbers ["JG" ] 31 Aug Montana Bird List and sort numbers ["Patrick A. Toomey Jr." ] 30 Aug EPA denies Petition to Protect Wildlife from Toxic Lead-based Ammunition ["Mary Fay" ] 30 Aug Re: apology for last post ["Jeff Marks" ] 30 Aug Re: apology for last post [Byron Butler ] 30 Aug Re: apology for last post ["Jeff Marks" ] 30 Aug apology for last post ["JG" ] 30 Aug Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls ["JG" ] 30 Aug Re: Costa's Hummingbirds Feathers and Bill ["JG" ] 30 Aug Re: Help please with a mystery bird ["JG" ] 30 Aug A Wet Freezout [Beth Hill ] 30 Aug Costa's Hummingbirds Feathers and Bill [] 30 Aug Costa's Hummingbirds Feathers and Bill [] 30 Aug Help please with a mystery bird ["Bob" ] 30 Aug Re: Glacier Park and Freezout Lake [] 30 Aug Glacier Park and Freezout Lake ["Bob" ] 30 Aug Logan Rd-Charlo ["James M O" ] 30 Aug Westby birds ["fabian_vas" ] 29 Aug RE: Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls ["Stevan Hawkins" ] 30 Aug Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls ["JG" ] 29 Aug Re: Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls [ned batchelder ] 29 Aug Re: Re: Giant Springs Day 2 ["Sharon Dewart-Hansen" ] 29 Aug Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls ["JG" ] 29 Aug Re: Giant Springs Day 2 ["Dan Casey" ] 29 Aug Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls ["Dan Casey" ] 29 Aug Costa's hummingbird ["JG" ] 29 Aug Re: Giant Springs Day 2 ["Sharon Dewart-Hansen" ] 29 Aug Giant Springs Day 2 ["Sharon Dewart-Hansen" ] 29 Aug Re: Photos; is there a problem? ["Sharon Dewart-Hansen" ] 29 Aug Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls ["JG" ] 29 Aug Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls ["Dan Casey" ] 29 Aug Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls ["JG" ] 29 Aug Re: female Costa's Hummingbird ["JG" ] 29 Aug Photos; is there a problem? ["Patrick A. Toomey Jr." ] Subject: Different experience with photos on MOBI II From: Susie <susanella AT yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 08:21:40 -0700 (PDT) As an FYI, I just discovered an anomaly viewing photos on MOB.  I have the discussion come straight into my yahoo email inbox every day and that works fine MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com   The updates to MOB from YahooGroups goes into my spam box.  When I try to open that link that begins YahooGroups not even half the photos can be viewed (I "turn on" the "images allowed" in the spam box heading).  Can't think of a reason there would be such a difference but there is.   Susie MaclinCascade, MT Subject: aug pics From: Carlene Farmer <birddog AT mt.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 09:09:28 -0600 i use Mozilla for my internet access and i can see all the pics fine.... Carlene Farmer Clancy Subject: Viewing poll photosI uII From: Susie <susanella AT yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 08:04:50 -0700 (PDT) I use a MacBook and can see them all just fine.   Susie Maclin Subject: Re: Poll Troubles From: "Patrick A. Toomey Jr." <ptoomeyjr AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 02:56:01 -0000 Jim, All good points, but IU'm leaning towards Yahoo has a problem. I have the same thing on 3 computers, 2 iMacs, one PC, VIsta, mAc-OS and XP. Oh, and I use Comcast for my internet access. Not liking this, though. Patrick --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > I've had no trouble clicking on the thumbnail. Perhaps it is a Mac vs PC thing, or a Windoze Vista vs 7 thing, or just Yahoo screwing around with us for some perverse amusement -- Jim Greaves > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "davewillmt" wrote: > > > > If you are having trouble seeing all of the monthly poll photos in their folder (as I am), try clicking on the name of the bird in the photo with a blank, and the photo should come up for viewing....works for me anyway. > > Dave Williams > > > Subject: Re: Poll Troubles From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 02:21:57 -0000 I've had no trouble clicking on the thumbnail. Perhaps it is a Mac vs PC thing, or a Windoze Vista vs 7 thing, or just Yahoo screwing around with us for some perverse amusement -- Jim Greaves --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "davewillmt" wrote: > > If you are having trouble seeing all of the monthly poll photos in their folder (as I am), try clicking on the name of the bird in the photo with a blank, and the photo should come up for viewing....works for me anyway. > Dave Williams > Subject: Re: Poll Troubles From: "Patrick A. Toomey Jr." <ptoomeyjr AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 02:07:58 -0000 Dave, Thanks for that post. However, though that worked for me earlier in the week, alas , no longer. By wy of clarification, on the poll that I posted about this issue. One should not have to try to fool the system. The pictures should come up, all of them, first try. So if you have to mess with your browser etc. to make the pictures appear vote no, okay? I'd like this info so I can share/leverage it with the Yahoo tech support. Patrick --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "davewillmt" wrote: > > If you are having trouble seeing all of the monthly poll photos in their folder (as I am), try clicking on the name of the bird in the photo with a blank, and the photo should come up for viewing....works for me anyway. > Dave Williams > Subject: Poll Troubles From: "davewillmt" <dwasgeorge AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 01:24:35 -0000 If you are having trouble seeing all of the monthly poll photos in their folder (as I am), try clicking on the name of the bird in the photo with a blank, and the photo should come up for viewing....works for me anyway. Dave Williams Subject: Re: New poll for MOB-Montana From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 01:12:48 -0000 My vote is showing as registered for the bird I chose - Jim Greaves --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > MOB-Montana group: > > MOBsters, > This is probably the quickest most accurate way to determine the validity of this month's photo contest. Just answer "yes" or "no" to the question. I can only see half of the entries so it ain't working for me ! Patrickd > > o YES, I can see all of the entries on my computer screen. > o NO, I cannot see all of the entries on my computer screen. > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MOB-Montana/surveys?id=13033145 > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > Subject: Re: Anna's Hummingbird report not valid.... From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 01:09:42 -0000 In addition, I had had a short-billed BCHU hanging around a week or so earlier, that I had never seen land, or had been chased away by a "normal" BCHU female-plumaged bird with LONG down-curved bill. Thus, I was surprised to see this seemingly DARK bird at the feeder, and the chase for its ID began. Thanks for all your patience, and I hope no one is as disappointed as I (for not getting a new yard bird) -- Jim Greaves, Thompson Falls -- BTW, ZERO humbirds today and only a long-billed BC and 2 Rufi yesterday --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > Much as it pains me to do this, I must remove Anna's Hummingbird from our Big Year list, due to my doubts - Jim Greaves - coupled with: > > Dear Jim: > > Liz Payne from the WINGS office forwarded your photos to me with a request for comments on the bird's identity. > > Based on the graduated widths of the inner primaries, curvature of the outer primaries, and the broad, blunt tip of P10, this is an unusually plump Black-chinned, a juvenile male by the "5-o'clock shadow" and extensive buffy feather fringing. The only field mark inconsistent with this identification is the short, straight bill (more like that of a Ruby-throated), but this could be an indication of extreme youth (the bill sometimes does not reach its mature length until well after the bird is independent, especially in long-billed species such as Black-chinned). > > These field marks are illustrated and discussed in the Peterson Field Guide to Hummingbirds of North America. If you don't already own this guide, I hope you'll consider using this link to purchase a copy from Amazon, with part of the proceeds benefiting the Southeastern Arizona Bird Observatory: > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0618024964/southeasternariz > > As fat as he is, I can't imagine he'll stick around your feeders much longer. A juvenile male Black-chinned I banded on the San Pedro River here in southeastern Arizona on September 9, 2000 was recaptured in late July 2009 by Ned & Gigi Batchelder east of Hamilton, MT, so it's possible that this little dude and some of the other Black-chinneds around your feeders are also headed for Mexico via southeastern Arizona. > > Hope this helps, > > Sheri Williamson > Bisbee, Arizona > sheri AT ... > Web site: http://www.fieldguidetohummingbirds.com > Blog: http://fieldguidetohummingbirds.wordpress.com > Subject: New poll for MOB-Montana From: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com Date: 2 Sep 2010 01:06:10 -0000 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the MOB-Montana group: MOBsters, This is probably the quickest most accurate way to determine the validity of this month's photo contest. Just answer "yes" or "no" to the question. I can only see half of the entries so it ain't working for me ! Patrickd o YES, I can see all of the entries on my computer screen. o NO, I cannot see all of the entries on my computer screen. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MOB-Montana/surveys?id=13033145 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Subject: Anna's Hummingbird report not valid.... From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 00:49:52 -0000 Much as it pains me to do this, I must remove Anna's Hummingbird from our Big Year list, due to my doubts - Jim Greaves - coupled with: Dear Jim: Liz Payne from the WINGS office forwarded your photos to me with a request for comments on the bird's identity. Based on the graduated widths of the inner primaries, curvature of the outer primaries, and the broad, blunt tip of P10, this is an unusually plump Black-chinned, a juvenile male by the "5-o'clock shadow" and extensive buffy feather fringing. The only field mark inconsistent with this identification is the short, straight bill (more like that of a Ruby-throated), but this could be an indication of extreme youth (the bill sometimes does not reach its mature length until well after the bird is independent, especially in long-billed species such as Black-chinned). These field marks are illustrated and discussed in the Peterson Field Guide to Hummingbirds of North America. If you don't already own this guide, I hope you'll consider using this link to purchase a copy from Amazon, with part of the proceeds benefiting the Southeastern Arizona Bird Observatory: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0618024964/southeasternariz As fat as he is, I can't imagine he'll stick around your feeders much longer. A juvenile male Black-chinned I banded on the San Pedro River here in southeastern Arizona on September 9, 2000 was recaptured in late July 2009 by Ned & Gigi Batchelder east of Hamilton, MT, so it's possible that this little dude and some of the other Black-chinneds around your feeders are also headed for Mexico via southeastern Arizona. Hope this helps, Sheri Williamson Bisbee, Arizona sheri AT fieldguidetohummingbirds.com Web site: http://www.fieldguidetohummingbirds.com Blog: http://fieldguidetohummingbirds.wordpress.com Subject: Re: white-winged dove south of great f alls From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 00:52:31 -0000 The fourth report of "a" White-winged dove, not necessarily the same, but also not necessarily four individuals - Jim Greaves --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Dan Casey" wrote: > > > Jerry et al: > > That's at least the fourth in Montana this year. I think I see a trend. Hopefully one that lands a WWDO in Somers. Thanks for posting. > > Dan Casey > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "mtbetta" wrote: > > > > I posted a few pictures in my photo album "jerry painter" > > > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > > > > > We've been wondering where that guy went! ;-) -- Jim Greaves > > > > > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "mtbetta" wrote: > > > > > > > > I have a white-winged dove hanging around the house today. This is the first time I have seen one in the yard. Still trying to get a picture, it seems to be a little nervous. > > > > between Great Falls and Ulm > > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: white-winged dove south of great f alls From: "Dan Casey" <danielcasey55 AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 00:12:16 -0000 Jerry et al: That's at least the fourth in Montana this year. I think I see a trend. Hopefully one that lands a WWDO in Somers. Thanks for posting. Dan Casey --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "mtbetta" wrote: > > I posted a few pictures in my photo album "jerry painter" > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > > > We've been wondering where that guy went! ;-) -- Jim Greaves > > > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "mtbetta" wrote: > > > > > > I have a white-winged dove hanging around the house today. This is the first time I have seen one in the yard. Still trying to get a picture, it seems to be a little nervous. > > > between Great Falls and Ulm > > > Jerry > > > > > > Subject: Re: white-winged dove south of great f alls From: "mtbetta" <painter_g AT msn.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 21:45:09 -0000 I posted a few pictures in my photo album "jerry painter" --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > We've been wondering where that guy went! ;-) -- Jim Greaves > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "mtbetta" wrote: > > > > I have a white-winged dove hanging around the house today. This is the first time I have seen one in the yard. Still trying to get a picture, it seems to be a little nervous. > > between Great Falls and Ulm > > Jerry > > > Subject: Re: white-winged dove south of great f alls From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 21:06:43 -0000 We've been wondering where that guy went! ;-) -- Jim Greaves --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "mtbetta" wrote: > > I have a white-winged dove hanging around the house today. This is the first time I have seen one in the yard. Still trying to get a picture, it seems to be a little nervous. > between Great Falls and Ulm > Jerry > Subject: white-winged dove south of great f alls From: "mtbetta" <painter_g AT msn.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 19:38:45 -0000 I have a white-winged dove hanging around the house today. This is the first time I have seen one in the yard. Still trying to get a picture, it seems to be a little nervous. between Great Falls and Ulm Jerry Subject: NWRA photo contest From: "misfire4522" <paula_gouse AT fws.gov> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 14:42:09 -0000 Hi everyone, Just thought I'd let all the great photographers out there know about this contest. Paula The National Wildlife Refuge Association launched our fifth annual National Wildlife Refuge Photography Contest earlier this month. Photographers are invited to submit up to five images taken on national wildlife refuges and wildlife production areas managed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. The contest is open for a shorter period than previous years, with the deadline for submitting digital images on September 24th. More information can be found on our website - http://www.refugeassociation.org/contest/2010ContestHome.html. The contest is open to both amateur and professional photographers, and does not exclude Fish and Wildlife Service employees or Refuge System staff. Subject: New poll for MOB-Montana From: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com Date: 1 Sep 2010 10:14:45 -0000 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the MOB-Montana group: Good morning! This month the MOB 'Photo of the Month Contest' has 12 entries. Please vote one time only for your favorite photo. The poll will close at midnight on September 5th. Be aware that the photo viewing problem that I reported earlier this week is still occurring; i.e. I cannot see all of the photos on my iMac computer. That said I have spoken with a number of people on the phone and they are able to to view the photos with no problem. Should this prove not to be true for the rest of you we may need to postpone the poll. Please communicate to me directly if you are unable to see all of the entries. Thanks, and good luck. Patrick Toomey ptoomeyjr AT gmail.com o American Goldfinch o American Three-toed Woodpecker o Black-capped Chickadee #1 o Black-capped Chickadee #2 o Black-headed Grosbeak o Brewer's Blackbird o Gray Catbird o Harlequin Duck o Northern Waterthrush o Pileated Woodpecker o Rufous Hummingbird o White-winged Crossbill To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MOB-Montana/surveys?id=13032936 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Subject: Lesser Black-backed Gull From: "Gary Swant" <Birdmontana AT rfwave.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 00:14:29 -0000 On my way to Westby I spent one day at Ft Peck. On Monday I found a Lesser Black-backed Gull. I called Chuck to see if he could find the bird and confirm my sighting and went on to Westby. I have not called him yet to see if he re-found it. It was an obvious gull among Franklin's, Ring-bills, and California. Birding in Westby has been steady with no large number but so far 11 species of warblers. No new species other than what Ted has posted. Gary Swant Deer Lodge Subject: Re: Birds and sheep From: "Dan Casey" <danielcasey55 AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:39:04 -0000 Jim: I am as fond of sarcasm as the next person. But I will continue to remind members of this group to try to stay close to the topic of birding in Montana, and perhaps also away from sarcastic posts in response to others. The internet is full of information, and of sites where other topics can be discussed ad infinitum. People are also welcome to pursue related and tangential topics off-list. Dan Casey A MOB moderator --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > All -- if we are only to discuss birds "of" Montana, and not their relationships with other biota, then all references to articles on relationships among vertebrate groups that come from anywhere but Montana should also not be posted or brought to our attention, and no discussion of plants or butterflies (please!). One such is this important piece about non-native trout and rosy-finches [which could be investigate relative to non-native fish removals from lakes in our part of the nation], since this article was from California. I submit it anyway, and welcome terse rebuke: > > Ecology, 91(8), 2010, pp. 2406–2415 >  2010 by the Ecological Society of America > "Nonnative trout impact an alpine-nesting bird by altering > aquatic-insect subsidies" > PETER N. EPANCHIN, ROLAND A. KNAPP, AND SHARON P. LAWLER > > Jim Greaves, Thompson Falls > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, bjhoy AT wrote: > > > > Dear Dan and all, > > > > Sorry, I know sheep and deer are not birds. I just wanted to make the > > point that both birds and mammals have the same health problems, > > diagnosed in both as symptoms of endocrine disruption. That would seem > > to be important to bird watchers, since they are mammals. Also sorry my > > posts keep showing up twice and in two different formats - how does > > that happen? > > > > Judy > > > Subject: now. back to birding From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:23:38 -0000 A yellow American redstart (oft called yellowstart, and probably a male) was at our backyard puddle this morning, along with over half dozen yellow-rumps and 3 wood-pewees. Fall is upon us - Jim Greaves, Thompson Falls Subject: Re: Birds and sheep From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:20:22 -0000 All -- if we are only to discuss birds "of" Montana, and not their relationships with other biota, then all references to articles on relationships among vertebrate groups that come from anywhere but Montana should also not be posted or brought to our attention, and no discussion of plants or butterflies (please!). One such is this important piece about non-native trout and rosy-finches [which could be investigate relative to non-native fish removals from lakes in our part of the nation], since this article was from California. I submit it anyway, and welcome terse rebuke: Ecology, 91(8), 2010, pp. 2406–2415  2010 by the Ecological Society of America "Nonnative trout impact an alpine-nesting bird by altering aquatic-insect subsidies" PETER N. EPANCHIN, ROLAND A. KNAPP, AND SHARON P. LAWLER Jim Greaves, Thompson Falls --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, bjhoy AT ... wrote: > > Dear Dan and all, > > Sorry, I know sheep and deer are not birds. I just wanted to make the > point that both birds and mammals have the same health problems, > diagnosed in both as symptoms of endocrine disruption. That would seem > to be important to bird watchers, since they are mammals. Also sorry my > posts keep showing up twice and in two different formats - how does > that happen? > > Judy > Subject: Freezout A.M. Ruddy Turnstone, Sanderling From: "Larry Carter" <birder43 AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:17:45 -0000 Hi MOB, Despite the low number of shorebirds I still got two good species anyway. One non-breeding Ruddy Turnstone at the Neck was good enough but also got one Sanderling there as well. Also got three more Sanderlings at the Dike (Area N). Other shorebirds were a flock of 14 Semipalmated Sandpipers at the Dike, plus one Greater Yellowlegs at the Dike as well. Saw three flocks of shorebirds flying over but must have landed where I could not view them, grass, Cattails, sedge's high, plus the water is high as well. Saw one Great Egret at the Neck compared to 5 yesterday. Also yesterday saw 8 Pectoral Sandpipers at the Dike. Windy and cool this morning did not help but did bring in two shorebird species that were pretty good. As I was leaving from the Dike saw one Prairie Falcon flying over. All for now, Good birding, Larry Carter Fairfield Subject: Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 17:48:57 -0000 Now there are ten images. So things seem to have unclogged! Thanks. --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Patrick A. Toomey Jr." wrote: > > MOBsters, > On my computer I am having difficulties viewing the August entries in the photo album. Would some of you give it a try so that I can determine if it is me, my computer, or the Yahoo system? What I see are most of the photo entries, but when I double click the album to view the thumbnails, TWO of the entires appear as blank boxes with a question mark. When I double click one of these "?" boxes the full photo appears. I'm reluctant to start the contest if we are having problems. Please post or email if you too are experiencing this problem. > > Thanks, > > Patrick > Subject: Re: Birds and sheep From: Chadeayne Roush <fatponies AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 10:58:43 -0600 Very interesting posts. Were there photos? I cannot get them. Very few butterflies here this year, as well as birds in my area along the SW base of the Pintlers not too far from Wise River. Alarming. Thank you, Chadeayne roush On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:49 AM, wrote: > > > Dear Dan and all, > > Sorry, I know sheep and deer are not birds. I just wanted to make the > point that both birds and mammals have the same health problems, > diagnosed in both as symptoms of endocrine disruption. That would seem > to be important to bird watchers, since they are mammals. Also sorry my > posts keep showing up twice and in two different formats - how does > that happen? > > Judy > > > Subject: Birds and sheep From: bjhoy AT localnet.com Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:49:30 -0400 Dear Dan and all, Sorry, I know sheep and deer are not birds. I just wanted to make the point that both birds and mammals have the same health problems, diagnosed in both as symptoms of endocrine disruption. That would seem to be important to bird watchers, since they are mammals. Also sorry my posts keep showing up twice and in two different formats - how does that happen? Judy Subject: Re: Feathers, bills and tumors From: "Dan Casey" <danielcasey55 AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:31:05 -0000 Judy: "The purpose of MOB is to provide up-to-date information on bird sightings from throughout Montana." I sense that endocrine disruption in sheep is straying rather far from the purpose of this group site. Enough said. Dan Casey One of several moderators --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, bjhoy AT ... wrote: > > Hi All, > > Two of the birds I mentioned with disrupted feather development were > eating all the mice they wanted. One was an adult male Red-tailed Hawk > that had the primary feathers on the left wing pulled out when it was > hit by a vehicle and was in captivity, eating all it wanted. New > feathers began growing, then just stopped. The other is my adult female > Harlan's Hawk, a bird I use for educational presentations. The various > replacement primary and secondary feathers which she molted this year > just stopped growing. I have had to give the birds special electrolytes > to make their feathers begin growing again. These birds are very well > fed on mice, which are pretty much a balanced diet. There is no sign of > the pale malnutrition strip across the feathers after I get the > feathers to begin growing again, likely because the problem is not > malnutrition. > > Underdevelopment of the upper facial bones is the initial cause of most > of the bill malformations I see and is being found on a high rate of > all ruminant grazing animals, both domestic and wild. For example, > three of the four bighorn rams shown in the photo on the cover of the > most recent Montana Outdoors Magazine cannot close their mouth over > their protruding lower incisors. I have discussed the malformations and > other health problems I have observed on the birds and mammals (both > have the same malformations except that mammals have disrupted hair > growth) with doctors who are epidemiologists. They told me what I am > observing is the result of endocrine disruption during development. I > have no idea what might be causing the severe increase of the symptoms > of endocrine disruption in animal young the last three years. The rates > of the health problems were less in young born in 2007 than they had > been since the malformations and other health problems began in spring > of 1995. Then in 2008 rates of the malformations I have been tracking > since 1996 doubled to over 70% and have remained over 70% in our study > animal, white-tailed deer, the two springs since. The tumors which have > been diagnosed in some of the birds as cancer became much more common. > I did not have the House Sparrow liver tested yet, but I saved it. The > tumors in the sparrow did not look like Avian TB. Thanks Beth for the > very informative website and thank you Kristi for the great information > on the moths and butterflies. I would also like to mention some of my > garden veggies failed to be pollinated this year, resulting in crop > loss. > > Kristi, on our land and immediate area of our land, I found only one > Woodland Skipper this year, a usually very abundant butterfly species. > There were far fewer than normal of other common butterflies and no > sightings of some species, like Sara Orangetip, the less common grass > skippers and other less common butterflies. I am hoping there will be > better populations next spring. Pine Whites were very abundant. Saw > almost none of the common moth species that live in the dryland > sagebrush habitat on our land and only three bumblebees all summer. > > Whatever we (collectively all over the U.S. or the world) are doing > now, it would probably be good if we stopped doing it as soon as > possible. > > Judy Hoy > Stevensville, MT > Subject: Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:14:53 -0000 If nine entries so far, then all show perfectly here - Jim Greaves --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Patrick A. Toomey Jr." wrote: > > MOBsters, > On my computer I am having difficulties viewing the August entries in the photo album. Would some of you give it a try so that I can determine if it is me, my computer, or the Yahoo system? What I see are most of the photo entries, but when I double click the album to view the thumbnails, TWO of the entires appear as blank boxes with a question mark. When I double click one of these "?" boxes the full photo appears. I'm reluctant to start the contest if we are having problems. Please post or email if you too are experiencing this problem. > > Thanks, > > Patrick > Subject: Feathers, bills and tumors From: bjhoy AT localnet.com Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:14:21 -0400 Hi All, Two of the birds I mentioned with disrupted feather development were eating all the mice they wanted. One was an adult male Red-tailed Hawk that had the primary feathers on the left wing pulled out when it was hit by a vehicle and was in captivity, eating all it wanted. New feathers began growing, then just stopped. The other is my adult female Harlan's Hawk, a bird I use for educational presentations. The various replacement primary and secondary feathers which she molted this year just stopped growing. I have had to give the birds special electrolytes to make their feathers begin growing again. These birds are very well fed on mice, which are pretty much a balanced diet. There is no sign of the pale malnutrition strip across the feathers after I get the feathers to begin growing again, likely because the problem is not malnutrition. Underdevelopment of the upper facial bones is the initial cause of most of the bill malformations I see and is being found on a high rate of all ruminant grazing animals, both domestic and wild. For example, three of the four bighorn rams shown in the photo on the cover of the most recent Montana Outdoors Magazine cannot close their mouth over their protruding lower incisors. I have discussed the malformations and other health problems I have observed on the birds and mammals (both have the same malformations except that mammals have disrupted hair growth) with doctors who are epidemiologists. They told me what I am observing is the result of endocrine disruption during development. I have no idea what might be causing the severe increase of the symptoms of endocrine disruption in animal young the last three years. The rates of the health problems were less in young born in 2007 than they had been since the malformations and other health problems began in spring of 1995. Then in 2008 rates of the malformations I have been tracking since 1996 doubled to over 70% and have remained over 70% in our study animal, white-tailed deer, the two springs since. The tumors which have been diagnosed in some of the birds as cancer became much more common. I did not have the House Sparrow liver tested yet, but I saved it. The tumors in the sparrow did not look like Avian TB. Thanks Beth for the very informative website and thank you Kristi for the great information on the moths and butterflies. I would also like to mention some of my garden veggies failed to be pollinated this year, resulting in crop loss. Kristi, on our land and immediate area of our land, I found only one Woodland Skipper this year, a usually very abundant butterfly species. There were far fewer than normal of other common butterflies and no sightings of some species, like Sara Orangetip, the less common grass skippers and other less common butterflies. I am hoping there will be better populations next spring. Pine Whites were very abundant. Saw almost none of the common moth species that live in the dryland sagebrush habitat on our land and only three bumblebees all summer. Whatever we (collectively all over the U.S. or the world) are doing now, it would probably be good if we stopped doing it as soon as possible. Judy Hoy Stevensville, MT Subject: Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics From: "John Carlson" <jccarlson AT surfbirder.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:34:03 -0700 Subject: Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics From: lonnag AT yahoo.com Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 15:30:48 +0000 FYI all the pictures display on my wireless Dell laptop. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "John Carlson" Sender: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:25:46 To: Reply-To: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [MOB-Montana] AUgust Photo Contest Pics   It appears to be a woodpecker problem on my computer at work. Only the woodpecker photos do not show. John Carlson Fort Peck, MT jccarlson AT surfbirder.com www.prairieice.blogspot.com http://www.pbase.com/mccownii --- ptoomeyjr AT gmail.com wrote: From: "Patrick A. Toomey Jr." To: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [MOB-Montana] AUgust Photo Contest Pics Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:22:51 -0000   MOBsters, On my computer I am having difficulties viewing the August entries in the photo album. Would some of you give it a try so that I can determine if it is me, my computer, or the Yahoo system? What I see are most of the photo entries, but when I double click the album to view the thumbnails, TWO of the entires appear as blank boxes with a question mark. When I double click one of these "?" boxes the full photo appears. I'm reluctant to start the contest if we are having problems. Please post or email if you too are experiencing this problem. Thanks, Patrick   ---------------- Surfbirds.com - The World Birding Website Subject: Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics From: "John Carlson" <jccarlson AT surfbirder.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:25:46 -0700 Subject: Re: Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics From: Alan Nelson <agnhum AT bresnan.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:13:52 -0600 Two photo do not appear and are question marks. Alan Nelson iMac On Aug 31, 2010, at 7:56 AM, Dan Casey wrote: > Patrick: > > No such problem here. > > Dan Casey > Somers > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Patrick A. Toomey Jr." wrote: > > > > MOBsters, > > On my computer I am having difficulties viewing the August entries in the photo album. Would some of you give it a try so that I can determine if it is me, my computer, or the Yahoo system? What I see are most of the photo entries, but when I double click the album to view the thumbnails, TWO of the entires appear as blank boxes with a question mark. When I double click one of these "?" boxes the full photo appears. I'm reluctant to start the contest if we are having problems. Please post or email if you too are experiencing this problem. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Patrick > > > > Subject: Re: AUgust Photo Contest Pics From: "Dan Casey" <danielcasey55 AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:56:00 -0000 Patrick: No such problem here. Dan Casey Somers --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Patrick A. Toomey Jr." wrote: > > MOBsters, > On my computer I am having difficulties viewing the August entries in the photo album. Would some of you give it a try so that I can determine if it is me, my computer, or the Yahoo system? What I see are most of the photo entries, but when I double click the album to view the thumbnails, TWO of the entires appear as blank boxes with a question mark. When I double click one of these "?" boxes the full photo appears. I'm reluctant to start the contest if we are having problems. Please post or email if you too are experiencing this problem. > > Thanks, > > Patrick > Subject: AUgust Photo Contest Pics From: "Patrick A. Toomey Jr." <ptoomeyjr AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:22:51 -0000 MOBsters, On my computer I am having difficulties viewing the August entries in the photo album. Would some of you give it a try so that I can determine if it is me, my computer, or the Yahoo system? What I see are most of the photo entries, but when I double click the album to view the thumbnails, TWO of the entires appear as blank boxes with a question mark. When I double click one of these "?" boxes the full photo appears. I'm reluctant to start the contest if we are having problems. Please post or email if you too are experiencing this problem. Thanks, Patrick Subject: Re: Montana Bird List and sort numbers From: "Patrick A. Toomey Jr." <ptoomeyjr AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:47:32 -0000 Jim, I intentonally do not go into the prior years and update the order because once the names or orders are changed now these would be incorrect. for that particular year. Sometimes species are split and even the names are no longer correct. These become somewhat historic in that way. --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > Got it. Thanks. Jim > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Marks" wrote: > > > > Jim, > > > > It's really quite simple and not at all "useless." Go to Database, click on the Official Montana State Bird Checklist (which is what Patrick updates), and use those sort numbers for the species you want to add to the Big Year List. > > > > ****************** > > Jeff Marks > > 4241 SE Liebe Street > > Portland, OR 97206 > > 503-774-4783 > > Birds of Montana Project > > http://mtaudubon.org > > ****************** > > > Subject: Re: feather growth From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 04:35:46 -0000 One place to look for effects of food stress is on tail feathers - in some birds one can see various width pale stripes across feathers that seem to coincide with food taken during progression of life of a bird. I saw one bird this year in spring, and wondered about what stress might have caused the bands of pale coloration (I think it was a song sparrow). I doubt "all" bill "abnormalities" are caused by chemicals, and don't think that is the intent of anyone to suggest - extremes of such can be found at one web site that compiles photos of bill deformities... I've seen a few examples of what appeared to be "natural injuries" over the years: a flightless Lazuli bunting fledgling, from a nest with long-dead nestlings, whose one wing was upside down (likely from being broken by an attempt to yank it from the nest as predators and cowbirds might), making it spiral out of control when it attempted flight, surviving in pristine habitat where water quality was required for the city, but where it would likely die in the fall because it could not migrate; a young Bell's vireo, two of whose 3 nest mates were killed (pecked by what was likely a cowbird), whose left wing's primary feather primordia were destroyed and thus could not grow, leaving the bird flightless, also giving it a whirligig-like flight if it tried to fly, destined to hop and beg among the mugwort, kept alive by attentive parents for nearly 4 weeks while they re-nested nearby... Thus, there are many natural causes of some of the "awful" things we see; so I caution about seemingly always concluding that it is chemicals that cause the bad things we see in nature. Nature is harsh. Sometimes there is nothing we can do because some of the "bad" things we see are just "natural" - Jim Greaves, Thompson Falls Subject: Re: Insect populations and feather growth From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 04:12:21 -0000 Kristi -- I second your comments. I saw a Life magazine advertisement nearly 40 years ago (from 10-15 or more years earlier than that, at the beginning of the auto boom and the start of the chemical craze that has us all in thrall: some chemical company, in huge letters "when you blitz bugs by the billions, that's better business", as a bi-plane soared above a pristine ag field spewing a cloud of gas behind... we got DDT banned here, but import foods produced by farms south of Texas that still use it, and we replaced DDT with dozens (hundreds?) of additional poisons, which most (if not all) of us use to some degree, not to mention estrogen-based things used for personal matters that get flushed into our wild lands' waters - I suppose mentioning it as a reminder is okay, as long as I do so "for Montana birds". Happy fall! -- Jim Greaves, Thompson Falls Kristi wrote: Our society has become so insect-phobic, it's amazing birds and bats can find enough food to sustain good populations, especially in our urban/suburban/agricultural areas. For the birds (and bugs too), Kristi DuBois Missoula Subject: Re: Montana Bird List and sort numbers From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 04:01:35 -0000 Got it. Thanks. Jim --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Marks" wrote: > > Jim, > > It's really quite simple and not at all "useless." Go to Database, click on the Official Montana State Bird Checklist (which is what Patrick updates), and use those sort numbers for the species you want to add to the Big Year List. > > ****************** > Jeff Marks > 4241 SE Liebe Street > Portland, OR 97206 > 503-774-4783 > Birds of Montana Project > http://mtaudubon.org > ****************** > Subject: Insect populations and feather growth From: Kristi DuBois <kdubois AT montana.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:18:24 -0600 Subject: New Birder From: "Jeffrey Cohen" <Kokobean2 AT hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 03:17:31 -0000 Hi All! I just moved to Browning on a temporary work assignment, from Seattle, WA, where I have been a pretty active birder. I am a member of Rainier Audubon and Washington Ornithological Society and Tweeters (Hi JG), the WA version of MOB. I have some of my bird photos up on Facebook and on Flickr. I am looking to explore a new area of the country. This past weekend I checked out Benton Lake and Freezeout Lake. Highlights at Benton Lake were 4 Soras (two seen), close up looks at 2 perched Bank Swallows (I usually only get to see them flying), 11 White Pelicans and lots of Eared Grebe young. Highlights (for me) at Freezeout at dusk were Forster's and Common Terns, 4 Bitterns from one small wet area, 5 more White Pelicans, and more mosquitoes than I have EVER seen in my life. With the long weekend coming up, it seems to me to be a good time to head to Westby, probably hitting Bowdoin and Medicine Lake on the same trip. I am also interested in exploring just about anywhere this side of the mountains. If anyone out there is interested in an extra set of eyes (and scope)I would be interested in carpooling part or all of the trip. Thanks, Jeffrey Cohen kokobean2 AT hotmail.com (406) 338-5136 (H no answering machine) (206)354-5542 (cell) --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "fabian_vas" wrote: > > Mob, > > A cool, rainy, day in Westby produced a nice variety of migrants at the park and surrounding neighborhoods. Here is a short list of some of the birds seen today with visiting birders Ron Martin, Jack Lefor, Terry Toppins, Arla Eckert, and Scott from Glasgow. > > Ruby-throated Hummingbird-1 > Yellow-bellied Flycatcher-2 (one for Westby, one for Plentywood) > Cassin's Vireo-1 (only second record for Westby) > Blue-headed Vireo-1 > Red-eyed Vireo-4 > Warbling Vireo-1 > Red-breasted Nuthatch-1 > Swainson's Thrush-8+ > Tennessee Warbler-1 > Chestnut-sided Warbler-1 > Magnolia Warbler-1 > Black & White Warbler-6+ > Bay-breasted Warbler-1 > Blackpoll Warbler-6+ > Yellow Warbler-numerous > Mourning Warbler-1 > Wilson's Warbler-numerous > Ovenbird-1 > Yellowthroat-1 > A. Redstart-numerous > Black-throated Green Warbler-1 > Rose-breasted Grosbeak-4 > > Ted Nordhagen & company > Westby Montana > Subject: Re: Re: Montana Bird List and sort numbers From: "Jeff Marks" <jeff17_marks AT msn.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:07:51 -0700 Jim, It's really quite simple and not at all "useless." Go to Database, click on the Official Montana State Bird Checklist (which is what Patrick updates), and use those sort numbers for the species you want to add to the Big Year List. ****************** Jeff Marks 4241 SE Liebe Street Portland, OR 97206 503-774-4783 Birds of Montana Project http://mtaudubon.org ****************** Subject: Re: Montana Bird List and sort numbers From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 02:53:10 -0000 Thanks Jeff and Patrick. Your information is helpful, but useless to some of us who only post occasionally (no offense intended) - we are told to go to previous years for the sort list numbers, and as can be seen by the two images I just posted, there is no equivalency to 2009 & 2010, at least as far as humbirds go which changed as radically as they did between 2009 and 2010! I think the latest numbers need to be posted - though Patrick maintains a list, it would be nice, since he is one of the moderators if that list were to be posted in either "Files" or "Database". That way, if AOU makes changes, Patrick or someone in charge of MOB could update it, so when we add species we can find the number that is correct. Again, I intend only to help get this to the point where duffers can use it without having to be clairvoyant. Also, I see the utility of having the numbers to keep the species list in proper taxonomic order, so that is not an issue I hope! Thanks again for clarifications - Jim Greaves, Thompson Falls --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Patrick A. Toomey Jr." wrote: > > MOBsters, > By way of clarification there really is no magic as to the hows or whys of the sort numbers that we use each year. I maintain a personal worldwide of bird species that has been updated and accumulated from far and wide accounts. The AOU annually updates the Bird of North America with relatively minor changes most of which amount to splits, lumps, scientific name changes, and reordering of their list. The changes are fairly asynchronous so there is no automated manner in which they can be accomplished. Generally I try to update making a few changes as possible, simplifying life for most folks. Eventually the changes require that I create new sort numbers and this was one of those years. You see, the re-ordering had been re-done so many times that I would have had to use decimal points, and that was gonna be tedious for all of us. I ran some rather lumpy queries that created more gaps between the numbers so that future years would be easier. Really from your perspective if you just use the Montana master each year all problems should be eliminated. If you maintain personal databases, you could resynchronize them using common or scientific name except for the changes. Unless yo have tried to maintain a world list of some 11,000 species,with 4-6 different taxonomies yo may not really appreciate the scope of the problem. The US list is only about 2070 species but these also need to fit within the Clements world list. If you'd like more details about this, just email or call me. > > Patrick > Subject: Montana Bird List and sort numbers From: "Patrick A. Toomey Jr." <ptoomeyjr AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 02:15:31 -0000 MOBsters, By way of clarification there really is no magic as to the hows or whys of the sort numbers that we use each year. I maintain a personal worldwide of bird species that has been updated and accumulated from far and wide accounts. The AOU annually updates the Bird of North America with relatively minor changes most of which amount to splits, lumps, scientific name changes, and reordering of their list. The changes are fairly asynchronous so there is no automated manner in which they can be accomplished. Generally I try to update making a few changes as possible, simplifying life for most folks. Eventually the changes require that I create new sort numbers and this was one of those years. You see, the re-ordering had been re-done so many times that I would have had to use decimal points, and that was gonna be tedious for all of us. I ran some rather lumpy queries that created more gaps between the numbers so that future years would be easier. Really from your perspective if you just use the Montana master each year all problems should be eliminated. If you maintain personal databases, you could resynchronize them using common or scientific name except for the changes. Unless yo have tried to maintain a world list of some 11,000 species,with 4-6 different taxonomies yo may not really appreciate the scope of the problem. The US list is only about 2070 species but these also need to fit within the Clements world list. If you'd like more details about this, just email or call me. Patrick Subject: EPA denies Petition to Protect Wildlife from Toxic Lead-based Ammunition From: "Mary Fay" <mary.fay AT bresnan.net> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:43:01 -0600 FYI - You may find the news release below of interest. http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2010/lead-08-27-2010.html |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | | | | | | | For Immediate Release, August 27, 2010 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Contacts: | | Gavin Shire, American Bird Conservancy, (571) 308 4301 | | Jeff Miller, Center for Biological Diversity, (510) 499-9185 | | | | | | | | EPA Denies Petition to Protect Wildlife From Toxic Lead-based Ammunition | | | | | | WASHINGTON- Conservation groups expressed dismay today after a decision by the Environmental Protection | | Agency to deny a petition to ban toxic lead bullets and shot that commonly kill and harm bald eagles, | | trumpeter swans, endangered California condors and other wildlife. An estimated 10 million to 20 | | million birds and other animals die each year from lead poisoning in the United States. | | | | | | "The EPA had ample evidence that lead bullets and shot have a devastating effect on America's wildlife, | | yet has refused to do anything about it. It's disappointing to see this country's top environmental | | agency simply walk away from the preventable poisoning of birds and other wildlife," said Darin | | Schroeder, Vice President for Conservation Advocacy at American Bird Conservancy. | | | | | | On Aug. 3, American Bird Conservancy, Center for Biological Diversity, Association of Avian | | Veterinarians, Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, and the hunters' group Project | | Gutpile petitioned the EPA to ban lead in bullets and shot for hunting, as well as fishing tackle. The | | petition referenced nearly 500 peer-reviewed scientific papers illustrating the widespread dangers of | | lead ammunition and fishing tackle. While the EPA is still considering the petition's request for the | | regulation of lead fishing tackle, it denied the petition's request regarding lead ammunition on the | | grounds that the Toxic Substances Control Act contains a specific exemption for lead ammunition. | | | | | | "We strongly believe that the EPA has the clear authority and duty to regulate this very harmful and | | toxic substance as used in bullets and shot, despite the so-called exemption for lead ammunition that | | is written into TSCA. We had hoped they would take that responsibility seriously but we remain | | committed to making sure toxic lead is removed from the environment and we'll redouble our efforts to | | see that through," said Adam Keats, senior counsel for the Center for Biological Diversity. | | | | | | Lead is an extremely toxic substance that is dangerous to people and wildlife even at low levels. | | Exposure can cause a range of health effects, from acute poisoning and death to long-term problems such | | as reduced reproduction, inhibition of growth and damage to neurological development. | | | | | | Animals are poisoned when they scavenge on carcasses shot and contaminated with lead bullet fragments, | | or pick up and eat spent lead-shot pellets or lost fishing weights, mistaking them for food or grit. | | Some animals die a painful death from lead poisoning while others suffer for years from its | | debilitating effects. | | | | | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| From: Jeff Marks Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 6:15 PM To: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [MOB-Montana] apology for last post Jim and Byron, Patrick is the one who comes up with the sort numbers, so he'll have to answer your questions. I don't think they necessarily change all that often but really have not paid much attention to them other than to use the ones from the master list when making entries. The reason one needs some number is to keep the bird list in taxonomic order, as per the AOU. The order may change for taxonomic reasons, as happened with the last check-list supplement. Jeff ****************** Jeff Marks 4241 SE Liebe Street Portland, OR 97206 503-774-4783 Birds of Montana Project http://mtaudubon.org ****************** Subject: Re: apology for last post From: "Jeff Marks" <jeff17_marks AT msn.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:15:03 -0700 Jim and Byron, Patrick is the one who comes up with the sort numbers, so he'll have to answer your questions. I don't think they necessarily change all that often but really have not paid much attention to them other than to use the ones from the master list when making entries. The reason one needs some number is to keep the bird list in taxonomic order, as per the AOU. The order may change for taxonomic reasons, as happened with the last check-list supplement. Jeff ****************** Jeff Marks 4241 SE Liebe Street Portland, OR 97206 503-774-4783 Birds of Montana Project http://mtaudubon.org ****************** Subject: Re: apology for last post From: Byron Butler <byronkbutlermt AT gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:11:39 -0600 Jeff, This question follows on the heals of an earlier event in which I made comment about the sort number without knowing that the numbers change. Jim has a good point. Another question is: if the numbers change every August, who alters the numbers that we enter into the database prior to the annual changes? Is this an automated process or do the numbers need to be changed by hand every year? Like Jim, it seems to me there may be an easier way for the MOB database, realizing of course that those who are interested in keeping up with the AOU will want to track the changes. Can you explain how it all works? Byron Subject: Re: apology for last post From: "Jeff Marks" <jeff17_marks AT msn.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:01:43 -0700 Jim, I don't know why the numbers keep changing, but the easiest way avoid the mistake you made is to take the sort number from the master list, which Patrick updated on 7 August of this year. Jeff ****************** Jeff Marks 4241 SE Liebe Street Portland, OR 97206 503-774-4783 Birds of Montana Project http://mtaudubon.org ****************** Subject: apology for last post From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:36:16 -0000 Apparently I used an older sort number (from 2009) and Anna's is listed among the egrets, according to my choice of what I thought was the correct number. I must have missed a message recently about changes to AOU and others' assignments of species. WHY do we continue to use the sort number, if it is going to lead to embarrassing confusions such as this? Aren't "common" names sufficient to get us to genus and species, since we don't use subspecies among the listed "Big Year" birds, and groups of birds haven't changed all that much, even with the recent splits of a couple of species? Just asking, without intending to start any disagreements among us - Jim Greaves Subject: Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:29:12 -0000 I note that someone continues to control MOB without telling us of intentions, such as by removing Anna's Hummingbird from the 2010 Big Year List without explaining why. I am not implying sinister motives, just curious. If there are valid reasons Anna's hummingbird should not be listed (for the moment), it would be nice to hear from those making decisions to remove additions to the Big Year List. Otherwise, why ask us to compile it as we go? We hear complaints from time to time by the moderators that people are failing to add to it... What features of the bird I posted make it NOT Anna's, leaving: Black-chinned; Anna's hybrid as suggested by Dan Casey (I've explained that there can be colors introduced by fill flash + glass between subject and camera); or some other species, and if some other, which? Thanks - Jim Greaves, Thompson Falls Subject: Re: Costa's Hummingbirds Feathers and Bill From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:12:18 -0000 Thanks Judy. I wonder about tail feather uneven-ness being a problem, per se. I see a lot of birds in middle of tail molt and sides are not necessarily even when first going through it, though by a few weeks later, they look fine; such as, song sparrow [adult and juv], house finch, evening grosbeak, english sparrow [juv], siskin, catbird [juv], and cassin's finch (juv, today, so still await normalcy)... - Jim Greaves -- BTW, I didn't even notice the bill on that Costa's! Doh! --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, bjhoy AT ... wrote: > > Dear Jim and all, > > The Costa's Hummingbird in the photo put up by the blogger at > "Kathiesbirds" is a great example of one of the bill malformations for > which I have alerted you all to watch. The tip of the bills are > crossed, which clearly shows in this very good photo. > > Also, another very serious problem becoming common is disrupted feather > development. This year, several young birds had the most severe > disrupted feather development I have seen and many adult birds are > having problems with disrupted feather development during molt. This > may be why the tail feathers are so uneven on the Saco Costa's > Hummingbird and why the primary feathers on the right wing on the Saco > bird are short. The right side is most often affected. > > FYI, I received a fledgling Brewer's Blackbird from Missoula, MT for > care in mid July. It had wing, tail, head and neck feathers, but no > feathers growing in the areas on the body where feathers usually grow. > It took 4 more weeks after treatment for disrupted feather growth for > the bird to grow the back, side, chest and belly feathers. I was > finally able to release a healthy feathered bird last week. What I > always wonder is how many birds are fledging here and throughout > Montana with disrupted feather growth, which usually results in the > death of the bird? > > Also, last week, I received a hatchling 2 1/2 week old House Sparrow > which died the next day of respiratory distress. It had small tumors > (looked like cancer) throughout the lungs and large tumors on the > liver. I have no idea why, but begs the question, how does a bird less > than 4 weeks old counting time in the egg get filled with tumors so > fast? Such tumors were never observed on hatchlings and and almost > never on adult birds prior to 2000. This was the sixth young bird I > have received in the last two years which had multiple tumors. Are the > "canaries" trying to tell us something? > > Judy Hoy > Stevensville, MT > Subject: Re: Help please with a mystery bird From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:07:29 -0000 Looks like a good example of Tennessee Warbler - Jim Greaves, T Falls --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Bob" wrote: > > Hi, > > I have just posted three pics of a mystery bird taken last week at St. Mary campground in Glacier National Park. The pics may be found at the end of my MOB album ...Of a Feather (the first regular member album). > > Any ideas would be welcome. I only have an educated guess, so would like to hear from you experts out there. > > Bob Starks > Townsend > Subject: A Wet Freezout From: Beth Hill <grizhill AT gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 14:43:17 -0600 The first chance I have to visit Freezout this summer and it is cold and raining. I went anyway. I met Larry and we teamed up to take an inventory of what birds would be out in the rain Sunday morning. Duck (many numbers and kinds) Grebes (ditto) Pelican American bittern Great Blue Heron Great Egrets Northern Harrier Swainson Hawk Kestrel Coots, coots, coots Semiplamated Plover (my first) Killdeer Black-necked Stilt American Avocet Spotted Sandpiper Greater Yellowlegs Marbled Godwit Semi-palmated Sandpiper Pectoral Sandpiper Dowitcher Snipes (although I'd seen them winnowing lots, I never had seen them on the ground) Franklin Gulls Terns Great Horned Owl Eastern Kingbird Magpies Robin Vesper Sparrow Savannah Sparrow Meadowlark Thanks for the help with Id's Larry Beth Hill Great Falls Subject: Costa's Hummingbirds Feathers and Bill From: bjhoy AT localnet.com Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:52:12 -0400 Dear Jim and all, The Costa's Hummingbird in the photo put up by the blogger at "Kathiesbirds" is a great example of one of the bill malformations for which I have alerted you all to watch. The tip of the bills are crossed, which clearly shows in this very good photo. Also, another very serious problem becoming common is disrupted feather development. This year, several young birds had the most severe disrupted feather development I have seen and many adult birds are having problems with disrupted feather development during molt. This may be why the tail feathers are so uneven on the Saco Costa's Hummingbird and why the primary feathers on the right wing on the Saco bird are short. The right side is most often affected. FYI, I received a fledgling Brewer's Blackbird from Missoula, MT for care in mid July. It had wing, tail, head and neck feathers, but no feathers growing in the areas on the body where feathers usually grow. It took 4 more weeks after treatment for disrupted feather growth for the bird to grow the back, side, chest and belly feathers. I was finally able to release a healthy feathered bird last week. What I always wonder is how many birds are fledging here and throughout Montana with disrupted feather growth, which usually results in the death of the bird? Also, last week, I received a hatchling 2 1/2 week old House Sparrow which died the next day of respiratory distress. It had small tumors (looked like cancer) throughout the lungs and large tumors on the liver. I have no idea why, but begs the question, how does a bird less than 4 weeks old counting time in the egg get filled with tumors so fast? Such tumors were never observed on hatchlings and and almost never on adult birds prior to 2000. This was the sixth young bird I have received in the last two years which had multiple tumors. Are the "canaries" trying to tell us something? Judy Hoy Stevensville, MT Subject: Costa's Hummingbirds Feathers and Bill From: bjhoy AT localnet.com Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:52:14 -0400 Dear Jim and all, The Costa's Hummingbird in the photo put up by the blogger at "Kathiesbirds" is a great example of one of the bill malformations for which I have alerted you all to watch. The tip of the bills are crossed, which clearly shows in this very good photo. Also, another very serious problem becoming common is disrupted feather development. This year, several young birds had the most severe disrupted feather development I have seen and many adult birds are having problems with disrupted feather development during molt. This may be why the tail feathers are so uneven on the Saco Costa's Hummingbird and why the primary feathers on the right wing on the Saco bird are short. The right side is most often affected. FYI, I received a fledgling Brewer's Blackbird from Missoula, MT for care in mid July. It had wing, tail, head and neck feathers, but no feathers growing in the areas on the body where feathers usually grow. It took 4 more weeks after treatment for disrupted feather growth for the bird to grow the back, side, chest and belly feathers. I was finally able to release a healthy feathered bird last week. What I always wonder is how many birds are fledging here and throughout Montana with disrupted feather growth, which usually results in the death of the bird? Also, last week, I received a hatchling 2 1/2 week old House Sparrow which died the next day of respiratory distress. It had small tumors (looked like cancer) throughout the lungs and large tumors on the liver. I have no idea why, but begs the question, how does a bird less than 4 weeks old counting time in the egg get filled with tumors so fast? Such tumors were never observed on hatchlings and and almost never on adult birds prior to 2000. This was the sixth young bird I have received in the last two years which had multiple tumors. Are the "canaries" trying to tell us something? Judy Hoy Stevensville, MT Subject: Help please with a mystery bird From: "Bob" <bobstarks AT mt.net> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:13:25 -0000 Hi, I have just posted three pics of a mystery bird taken last week at St. Mary campground in Glacier National Park. The pics may be found at the end of my MOB album ...Of a Feather (the first regular member album). Any ideas would be welcome. I only have an educated guess, so would like to hear from you experts out there. Bob Starks Townsend Subject: Re: Glacier Park and Freezout Lake From: schwit AT 3rivers.net Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:48:38 -0600 (MDT) Hi Bob and MOB, At Freezout the three Snow Geese are long staying birds(leftovers from the spring). Mike Schwitters On Shemya Is. AK > Greetings, > > Libby and I returned last night from a week long camping trip to Glacier > Park and Freezout Lake. > > Glacier was wonderful, as usual. We were the first ones to arrive at > Logan Pass on the first day of the trip, but instead of finding the > elusive white-tailed ptarmigan and gray-crowned rosy-finch, we found lots > of AMERCIAN PIPITS. There were also eight big-horn rams and as many goats. > > A hike up the Piegan Pass trail put us in close range of an AMERICAN > DIPPER on Siyeh Creek, and later on a BOREAL CHICKADEE in a mixed flock > with RED-BREASTED NUTHATCH, YELLOW WARBLER, etc. > > A drive up to Many Glacier produced a sow grizzly with a yearling > silver-tipped cub. They were hunting along the far shore of Lake > Sherburne. A short hike into Fishercap Lake produced 6, yes SIX, moose. > The Swiftcurrent trai was closed just above Fishercap, due to Grizzlies. > Oh, back to the birds. There were two COMMON LOONS on Lake Sherburne and > several COMMON GOLDENEYE on Fishercap. Also a BELTED KINGFISHER along > Sherburne. > > Interestingly, we met a ranger who said he had a PhD. in white-tailed > ptarmigan! He told us where the ptarmigan are congregating, but of course > those places are off-limits to us mere tourists. > > In our campground at Saint Mary, we saw EVENING GROSBEAK, WILSON'S > WARBLER, ORANGE-CROWNED WARBLER,and lots of WHITE-CROWNED SPARROWS. > > The OSPREY family, featured on the web-cam at the Saint Mary visitor > center put on a nice show for us one evening. It is getting hard to tell > the adults from the juvys now and all four at once made for a nest full. > > Freezout Lake was interesting, if not buggy, wet and windy. A PEREGRINE > FALCON was persistant in circling near the neck. We also saw five GREAT > EGRETS near the neck, and three early arrival(?) SNOW GEESE. Also present > were three WILSON'S SNIPE, SOLITARY SANDPIPER, MARBLED GODWIT, WILSON'S > PHALAROPE, GREATER YELLOWLEGS, EARED GREBE, CLARKS GREBE, RED-NECKED > GREBE, etc. The weather chased us home early, but 43 species in a few > hours at Freezout was satisfying. > > Good birding, > Bob Starks, Townsend > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Subject: Glacier Park and Freezout Lake From: "Bob" <bobstarks AT mt.net> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:06:12 -0000 Greetings, Libby and I returned last night from a week long camping trip to Glacier Park and Freezout Lake. Glacier was wonderful, as usual. We were the first ones to arrive at Logan Pass on the first day of the trip, but instead of finding the elusive white-tailed ptarmigan and gray-crowned rosy-finch, we found lots of AMERCIAN PIPITS. There were also eight big-horn rams and as many goats. A hike up the Piegan Pass trail put us in close range of an AMERICAN DIPPER on Siyeh Creek, and later on a BOREAL CHICKADEE in a mixed flock with RED-BREASTED NUTHATCH, YELLOW WARBLER, etc. A drive up to Many Glacier produced a sow grizzly with a yearling silver-tipped cub. They were hunting along the far shore of Lake Sherburne. A short hike into Fishercap Lake produced 6, yes SIX, moose. The Swiftcurrent trai was closed just above Fishercap, due to Grizzlies. Oh, back to the birds. There were two COMMON LOONS on Lake Sherburne and several COMMON GOLDENEYE on Fishercap. Also a BELTED KINGFISHER along Sherburne. Interestingly, we met a ranger who said he had a PhD. in white-tailed ptarmigan! He told us where the ptarmigan are congregating, but of course those places are off-limits to us mere tourists. In our campground at Saint Mary, we saw EVENING GROSBEAK, WILSON'S WARBLER, ORANGE-CROWNED WARBLER,and lots of WHITE-CROWNED SPARROWS. The OSPREY family, featured on the web-cam at the Saint Mary visitor center put on a nice show for us one evening. It is getting hard to tell the adults from the juvys now and all four at once made for a nest full. Freezout Lake was interesting, if not buggy, wet and windy. A PEREGRINE FALCON was persistant in circling near the neck. We also saw five GREAT EGRETS near the neck, and three early arrival(?) SNOW GEESE. Also present were three WILSON'S SNIPE, SOLITARY SANDPIPER, MARBLED GODWIT, WILSON'S PHALAROPE, GREATER YELLOWLEGS, EARED GREBE, CLARKS GREBE, RED-NECKED GREBE, etc. The weather chased us home early, but 43 species in a few hours at Freezout was satisfying. Good birding, Bob Starks, Townsend Subject: Logan Rd-Charlo From: "James M O" <oatescpa AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:47:41 -0000 After the cold front rain stopped on Sunday, the new ponds were a circus. Dozens each of willets, avocets, & marbled godwits with all the other usuals all being stirred up by 2 peregines this time. One of the peregines landed and appeared to be hunting & eating worms like a robin. Subject: Westby birds From: "fabian_vas" <soraart AT nemont.net> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 04:02:52 -0000 Mob, A cool, rainy, day in Westby produced a nice variety of migrants at the park and surrounding neighborhoods. Here is a short list of some of the birds seen today with visiting birders Ron Martin, Jack Lefor, Terry Toppins, Arla Eckert, and Scott from Glasgow. Ruby-throated Hummingbird-1 Yellow-bellied Flycatcher-2 (one for Westby, one for Plentywood) Cassin's Vireo-1 (only second record for Westby) Blue-headed Vireo-1 Red-eyed Vireo-4 Warbling Vireo-1 Red-breasted Nuthatch-1 Swainson's Thrush-8+ Tennessee Warbler-1 Chestnut-sided Warbler-1 Magnolia Warbler-1 Black & White Warbler-6+ Bay-breasted Warbler-1 Blackpoll Warbler-6+ Yellow Warbler-numerous Mourning Warbler-1 Wilson's Warbler-numerous Ovenbird-1 Yellowthroat-1 A. Redstart-numerous Black-throated Green Warbler-1 Rose-breasted Grosbeak-4 Ted Nordhagen & company Westby Montana Subject: RE: Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls From: "Stevan Hawkins" <shawkins4 AT satx.rr.com> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 21:14:06 -0500 All: In the early 1980s several Anna's Hummingbirds wintered in New Braunfels TX. Nothing like seeing your lifer Anna's Hummingbird fly over the snow. If they can winter in Central Texas, they can certainly migrate through Montana. As far as field marks: A few minutes ago I got confirmation of juvenile, HY, Hooded Mergansers that I photographed in North Dakota in August that were in a plumage that is not illustrated even in the Complete National Geographic field guide. If field guides illustrated every last plumage stage of every species, chances are that we could not carry our field guides in the field. Onward! Steve Stevan Hawkins San Antonio TX From: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ned batchelder Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 8:32 PM To: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [MOB-Montana] Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls We agree, and for those of you on the Montana State Records Committe, different photos do good things for a positive ID. Maybe Jim can get a good tail spread, front gorget, or throat shot, as that would be great as well. It is time for Anna's annual move inland from the west coast as a vagrant Last year Anna's was here in the Bitterroot, even reported in Jackson, Wy. with photos in Oct./Nov. In fact an adult Anna's male has been just south of Tulsa, OK. for several weeks. Folks here in the Bitterroot, Flathead and other places in the NW leave a feeder out for the late in the season Anna's hummingbird. Possibly one may show up in SACO, MT............... Ned and Gigi Batchelder Hamilton, MT. --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Dan Casey wrote: From: Dan Casey Subject: [MOB-Montana] Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls To: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 4:17 PM Sometimes shots through doors and windows are all we get, or all we need. Those shots that Holly took of the Costa's through a screen still showed diagnostic field marks. I think your bird is good for Anna's, as it doesn't seem "clean" enough, nor long-billed enough for BCHU or RTHU, and the dumpy shape and green crown are good as well. It would be nice to see any gorget feathers, and to confirm the tail color and shape. But I will not pretend to be an expert in variation of female hummingbirds. Ned, care to weigh in? Dan Casey Somers --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com , "JG" wrote: > > Thanks Dan. The photos were made through double-paned glass at angle to prevent flash reflection, total distance about 12 feet. The rufous appears in all photos taken of this bird, facing left and right, but only I only got side shots. I do not recall seeing color in tail when bird was perched facing away, and did not see any through lens while focusing, so not sure if it's an artifact of light or real. Would either Black-chinned or Ruby-throated have combination of features in this bird (including orange in tail, or only slight wash of beige on flank)? - Jim > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com , "Dan Casey" wrote: > > > > Jim: > > > > Sorry to be "inconclusive", but while I can see that this bird matches female Anna fairly well, it appears to have some rufous in the tail. Is this a photo artifact, or actual? Any rufous would negate a pure Anna's. > > > > Dan Casey > > Somers > > > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com , "JG" wrote: > > > > > > Help sought for a photo I've posted of a mystery hummingbird from this morning (29 Aug 2010) that is different from the several Rufous, Calliope, and Black-chinned that are and have been here for several days... I suspect Anna's based on short straight bill, green in sides, throat pattern, and undertail markings. Anyone have any conclusive thoughts on it? Please post replies at MOB if you think I'm correct. Thanks! - Jim > > > > > > Subject: Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 01:59:42 -0000 Thanks to both of you, and the others who have weighed-in! I add it as a new yard bird, and for Sanders County [specifically QLL 13-b, as a "t"]! -- Jim Greaves --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, ned batchelder wrote: > > We agree, and for those of you on the Montana State Records Committe, different photos > do good things for a positive ID. Maybe Jim can get a good tail spread, front gorget, or throat shot, as that would be great as well. >  It is time for Anna's annual move inland from the west coast as a vagrant  Last year Anna's was here in the Bitterroot, even reported in Jackson, Wy. with photos in Oct./Nov. > In fact an adult Anna's male has been just south of Tulsa, OK. for several weeks. > Folks here in the Bitterroot, Flathead and other places in the NW leave a feeder out for the late in the season Anna's hummingbird. > Possibly one may show up in SACO, MT............... >   > Ned and Gigi Batchelder > Hamilton, MT. >   > > --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Dan Casey wrote: > > > From: Dan Casey > Subject: [MOB-Montana] Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls > To: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 4:17 PM > > >   > > > > Sometimes shots through doors and windows are all we get, or all we need. Those shots that Holly took of the Costa's through a screen still showed diagnostic field marks. > > I think your bird is good for Anna's, as it doesn't seem "clean" enough, nor long-billed enough for BCHU or RTHU, and the dumpy shape and green crown are good as well. It would be nice to see any gorget feathers, and to confirm the tail color and shape. But I will not pretend to be an expert in variation of female hummingbirds. > > Ned, care to weigh in? > > Dan Casey > Somers > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > > > Thanks Dan. The photos were made through double-paned glass at angle to prevent flash reflection, total distance about 12 feet. The rufous appears in all photos taken of this bird, facing left and right, but only I only got side shots. I do not recall seeing color in tail when bird was perched facing away, and did not see any through lens while focusing, so not sure if it's an artifact of light or real. Would either Black-chinned or Ruby-throated have combination of features in this bird (including orange in tail, or only slight wash of beige on flank)? - Jim > > > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Dan Casey" wrote: > > > > > > Jim: > > > > > > Sorry to be "inconclusive", but while I can see that this bird matches female Anna fairly well, it appears to have some rufous in the tail. Is this a photo artifact, or actual? Any rufous would negate a pure Anna's. > > > > > > Dan Casey > > > Somers > > > > > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > > > > > > > Help sought for a photo I've posted of a mystery hummingbird from this morning (29 Aug 2010) that is different from the several Rufous, Calliope, and Black-chinned that are and have been here for several days... I suspect Anna's based on short straight bill, green in sides, throat pattern, and undertail markings. Anyone have any conclusive thoughts on it? Please post replies at MOB if you think I'm correct. Thanks! - Jim > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls From: ned batchelder <ngbatch AT yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:31:41 -0700 (PDT) We agree, and for those of you on the Montana State Records Committe, different photos do good things for a positive ID. Maybe Jim can get a good tail spread, front gorget, or throat shot, as that would be great as well.  It is time for Anna's annual move inland from the west coast as a vagrant  Last year Anna's was here in the Bitterroot, even reported in Jackson, Wy. with photos in Oct./Nov. In fact an adult Anna's male has been just south of Tulsa, OK. for several weeks. Folks here in the Bitterroot, Flathead and other places in the NW leave a feeder out for the late in the season Anna's hummingbird. Possibly one may show up in SACO, MT...............   Ned and Gigi Batchelder Hamilton, MT.   --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Dan Casey wrote: From: Dan Casey Subject: [MOB-Montana] Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls To: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 4:17 PM   Sometimes shots through doors and windows are all we get, or all we need. Those shots that Holly took of the Costa's through a screen still showed diagnostic field marks. I think your bird is good for Anna's, as it doesn't seem "clean" enough, nor long-billed enough for BCHU or RTHU, and the dumpy shape and green crown are good as well. It would be nice to see any gorget feathers, and to confirm the tail color and shape. But I will not pretend to be an expert in variation of female hummingbirds. Ned, care to weigh in? Dan Casey Somers --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > Thanks Dan. The photos were made through double-paned glass at angle to prevent flash reflection, total distance about 12 feet. The rufous appears in all photos taken of this bird, facing left and right, but only I only got side shots. I do not recall seeing color in tail when bird was perched facing away, and did not see any through lens while focusing, so not sure if it's an artifact of light or real. Would either Black-chinned or Ruby-throated have combination of features in this bird (including orange in tail, or only slight wash of beige on flank)? - Jim > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Dan Casey" wrote: > > > > Jim: > > > > Sorry to be "inconclusive", but while I can see that this bird matches female Anna fairly well, it appears to have some rufous in the tail. Is this a photo artifact, or actual? Any rufous would negate a pure Anna's. > > > > Dan Casey > > Somers > > > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > > > > > Help sought for a photo I've posted of a mystery hummingbird from this morning (29 Aug 2010) that is different from the several Rufous, Calliope, and Black-chinned that are and have been here for several days... I suspect Anna's based on short straight bill, green in sides, throat pattern, and undertail markings. Anyone have any conclusive thoughts on it? Please post replies at MOB if you think I'm correct. Thanks! - Jim > > > > > > Subject: Re: Re: Giant Springs Day 2 From: "Sharon Dewart-Hansen" <smdhansen AT bresnan.net> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:55:07 -0600 Thanks to Dan & Jim for your help. I had leanings, and see that they were correct. There were at least 2 or 3 more Pectorals, and a small flock of much smaller peeps (almost half the size), but they were just too far to get a decent shot, and lighting made picking up details from that far away very difficult. Thanks again, Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Casey To: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 4:21 PM Subject: [MOB-Montana] Re: Giant Springs Day 2 Sharon: I agree that your vireo is an immature Red-eyed (with brownish eye). As for the "peep", it appears to be a Pectoral Sandpiper. Dan --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Sharon Dewart-Hansen" wrote: > > Decided to go down to Giant Springs again this morning just to see what may have been forced down by the rain storm. It was misty and cool but there was still a lot of activity. Wilson's Warblers were now spread from the Springs down to the Lewis and Clark Center. Most of the usual characters from yesterday were still around, including 2 Spotted Sandpipers, the Greater Yellowlegs, Ruby-crowned Kinglets, Least Flycatcher, Swainson's Thrush, Black-capped Chickadee and a couple of Downey Woodpeckers showed up. Then there were the 2 vireos we came upon. The 1st was a Warbling Vireo, and the 2nd is bit of a mystery. I am posting a very bad photo in hopes of getting some input. My best guess is an immature Red-eyed Vireo but would like some input. Also, when we drove down the road to check out the newly exposed mudflats, we saw some different peeps out on the edges. In this light it was hard to get an accurate ID. Have another bad photo of one of them. Any guesses?? > > Thanks for any help > > Sharon Dewart-Hansen > Doug Hansen > Great Falls, MT > Subject: Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 22:33:00 -0000 Several other images, facing slightly towards me did not show any special gorget feathers; there are 3 spots on side of neck in photo posted, under or near left ear, that could indicate this is a male..? I found that shooting with flash, in daylight for fill and especially in low light, will add yellow just about all green feathers of every Anna's, male or female, that I've photographed over the years, so I played around with color adjustments, and could not get this bird to look like orange-tailed humbirds, though broad-tailed occurred to me - perhaps a young male? Anyway, I added Anna's to Big Year database, pending better photos making it firm, if it hasn't blown away with the clouds... - Thanks again -- Jim & Lark, Thompson Falls --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Dan Casey" wrote: > > Sometimes shots through doors and windows are all we get, or all we need. Those shots that Holly took of the Costa's through a screen still showed diagnostic field marks. > > I think your bird is good for Anna's, as it doesn't seem "clean" enough, nor long-billed enough for BCHU or RTHU, and the dumpy shape and green crown are good as well. It would be nice to see any gorget feathers, and to confirm the tail color and shape. But I will not pretend to be an expert in variation of female hummingbirds. > > Ned, care to weigh in? > > Dan Casey > Somers > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > > > Thanks Dan. The photos were made through double-paned glass at angle to prevent flash reflection, total distance about 12 feet. The rufous appears in all photos taken of this bird, facing left and right, but only I only got side shots. I do not recall seeing color in tail when bird was perched facing away, and did not see any through lens while focusing, so not sure if it's an artifact of light or real. Would either Black-chinned or Ruby-throated have combination of features in this bird (including orange in tail, or only slight wash of beige on flank)? - Jim > > > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Dan Casey" wrote: > > > > > > Jim: > > > > > > Sorry to be "inconclusive", but while I can see that this bird matches female Anna fairly well, it appears to have some rufous in the tail. Is this a photo artifact, or actual? Any rufous would negate a pure Anna's. > > > > > > Dan Casey > > > Somers > > > > > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > > > > > > > Help sought for a photo I've posted of a mystery hummingbird from this morning (29 Aug 2010) that is different from the several Rufous, Calliope, and Black-chinned that are and have been here for several days... I suspect Anna's based on short straight bill, green in sides, throat pattern, and undertail markings. Anyone have any conclusive thoughts on it? Please post replies at MOB if you think I'm correct. Thanks! - Jim > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Giant Springs Day 2 From: "Dan Casey" <danielcasey55 AT gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 22:21:29 -0000 Sharon: I agree that your vireo is an immature Red-eyed (with brownish eye). As for the "peep", it appears to be a Pectoral Sandpiper. Dan --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Sharon Dewart-Hansen" wrote: > > Decided to go down to Giant Springs again this morning just to see what may have been forced down by the rain storm. It was misty and cool but there was still a lot of activity. Wilson's Warblers were now spread from the Springs down to the Lewis and Clark Center. Most of the usual characters from yesterday were still around, including 2 Spotted Sandpipers, the Greater Yellowlegs, Ruby-crowned Kinglets, Least Flycatcher, Swainson's Thrush, Black-capped Chickadee and a couple of Downey Woodpeckers showed up. Then there were the 2 vireos we came upon. The 1st was a Warbling Vireo, and the 2nd is bit of a mystery. I am posting a very bad photo in hopes of getting some input. My best guess is an immature Red-eyed Vireo but would like some input. Also, when we drove down the road to check out the newly exposed mudflats, we saw some different peeps out on the edges. In this light it was hard to get an accurate ID. Have another bad photo of one of them. Any guesses?? > > Thanks for any help > > Sharon Dewart-Hansen > Doug Hansen > Great Falls, MT > Subject: Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls From: "Dan Casey" <danielcasey55 AT gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 22:17:07 -0000 Sometimes shots through doors and windows are all we get, or all we need. Those shots that Holly took of the Costa's through a screen still showed diagnostic field marks. I think your bird is good for Anna's, as it doesn't seem "clean" enough, nor long-billed enough for BCHU or RTHU, and the dumpy shape and green crown are good as well. It would be nice to see any gorget feathers, and to confirm the tail color and shape. But I will not pretend to be an expert in variation of female hummingbirds. Ned, care to weigh in? Dan Casey Somers --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > Thanks Dan. The photos were made through double-paned glass at angle to prevent flash reflection, total distance about 12 feet. The rufous appears in all photos taken of this bird, facing left and right, but only I only got side shots. I do not recall seeing color in tail when bird was perched facing away, and did not see any through lens while focusing, so not sure if it's an artifact of light or real. Would either Black-chinned or Ruby-throated have combination of features in this bird (including orange in tail, or only slight wash of beige on flank)? - Jim > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Dan Casey" wrote: > > > > Jim: > > > > Sorry to be "inconclusive", but while I can see that this bird matches female Anna fairly well, it appears to have some rufous in the tail. Is this a photo artifact, or actual? Any rufous would negate a pure Anna's. > > > > Dan Casey > > Somers > > > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > > > > > Help sought for a photo I've posted of a mystery hummingbird from this morning (29 Aug 2010) that is different from the several Rufous, Calliope, and Black-chinned that are and have been here for several days... I suspect Anna's based on short straight bill, green in sides, throat pattern, and undertail markings. Anyone have any conclusive thoughts on it? Please post replies at MOB if you think I'm correct. Thanks! - Jim > > > > > > Subject: Costa's hummingbird From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 21:29:27 -0000 There's a photo of similarly molted juvenile male Costa's online here, by a blogger whose handle is "Kathiesbirds", which should allay any fears about the ID on the Saco bird: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KmXktyldzvg/SoGcol6jmQI/AAAAAAAAEys/l_SXk2ro9JI/s1600-h/1.+Male+immature+Costa%27s.JPG as linked from: http://coronadetucson.blogspot.com/2009/08/my-world-hummingbird-season.html Jim Greaves, Thompson Falls Subject: Re: Giant Springs Day 2 From: "Sharon Dewart-Hansen" <smdhansen AT bresnan.net> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 14:43:46 -0600 Also, forgot the Sharp-shinned Hawk, The Ospreys and the single female Bufflehead. Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Dewart-Hansen To: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 2:28 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [MOB-Montana] Giant Springs Day 2 Decided to go down to Giant Springs again this morning just to see what may have been forced down by the rain storm. It was misty and cool but there was still a lot of activity. Wilson's Warblers were now spread from the Springs down to the Lewis and Clark Center. Most of the usual characters from yesterday were still around, including 2 Spotted Sandpipers, the Greater Yellowlegs, Ruby-crowned Kinglets, Least Flycatcher, Swainson's Thrush, Black-capped Chickadee and a couple of Downey Woodpeckers showed up. Then there were the 2 vireos we came upon. The 1st was a Warbling Vireo, and the 2nd is bit of a mystery. I am posting a very bad photo in hopes of getting some input. My best guess is an immature Red-eyed Vireo but would like some input. Also, when we drove down the road to check out the newly exposed mudflats, we saw some different peeps out on the edges. In this light it was hard to get an accurate ID. Have another bad photo of one of them. Any guesses?? Thanks for any help Sharon Dewart-Hansen Doug Hansen Great Falls, MT Subject: Giant Springs Day 2 From: "Sharon Dewart-Hansen" <smdhansen AT bresnan.net> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 14:28:56 -0600 Decided to go down to Giant Springs again this morning just to see what may have been forced down by the rain storm. It was misty and cool but there was still a lot of activity. Wilson's Warblers were now spread from the Springs down to the Lewis and Clark Center. Most of the usual characters from yesterday were still around, including 2 Spotted Sandpipers, the Greater Yellowlegs, Ruby-crowned Kinglets, Least Flycatcher, Swainson's Thrush, Black-capped Chickadee and a couple of Downey Woodpeckers showed up. Then there were the 2 vireos we came upon. The 1st was a Warbling Vireo, and the 2nd is bit of a mystery. I am posting a very bad photo in hopes of getting some input. My best guess is an immature Red-eyed Vireo but would like some input. Also, when we drove down the road to check out the newly exposed mudflats, we saw some different peeps out on the edges. In this light it was hard to get an accurate ID. Have another bad photo of one of them. Any guesses?? Thanks for any help Sharon Dewart-Hansen Doug Hansen Great Falls, MT Subject: Re: Photos; is there a problem? From: "Sharon Dewart-Hansen" <smdhansen AT bresnan.net> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 13:54:42 -0600 Patrick, I had a similar problem when I down-loaded some pictures yesterday but they seem to be fine now. Weird. Sharon Dewart-Hansen Great Falls, MT ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick A. Toomey Jr. To: MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 8:46 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [MOB-Montana] Photos; is there a problem? Are any of you experiencing difficulties when uploading photos? This past week I have seen many situations where when looking at the new photos, that rather than a thumbnail being seen there is only a question mark. Other times if I hit refresh once or twice one photo will finally appear but not the others. I'd like your input so that I can contact support if there is an issue. I am uncertain as it may be as simple as the user is new to uploading and not attaching the file properly. Please let the rest of us know if you too are having problems so we can solve this problem if in fact there is one. Thanks, Patrick Subject: Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:03:38 -0000 Thanks Dan. The photos were made through double-paned glass at angle to prevent flash reflection, total distance about 12 feet. The rufous appears in all photos taken of this bird, facing left and right, but only I only got side shots. I do not recall seeing color in tail when bird was perched facing away, and did not see any through lens while focusing, so not sure if it's an artifact of light or real. Would either Black-chinned or Ruby-throated have combination of features in this bird (including orange in tail, or only slight wash of beige on flank)? - Jim --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Dan Casey" wrote: > > Jim: > > Sorry to be "inconclusive", but while I can see that this bird matches female Anna fairly well, it appears to have some rufous in the tail. Is this a photo artifact, or actual? Any rufous would negate a pure Anna's. > > Dan Casey > Somers > > --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > > > Help sought for a photo I've posted of a mystery hummingbird from this morning (29 Aug 2010) that is different from the several Rufous, Calliope, and Black-chinned that are and have been here for several days... I suspect Anna's based on short straight bill, green in sides, throat pattern, and undertail markings. Anyone have any conclusive thoughts on it? Please post replies at MOB if you think I'm correct. Thanks! - Jim > > > Subject: Re: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls From: "Dan Casey" <danielcasey55 AT gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:22:54 -0000 Jim: Sorry to be "inconclusive", but while I can see that this bird matches female Anna fairly well, it appears to have some rufous in the tail. Is this a photo artifact, or actual? Any rufous would negate a pure Anna's. Dan Casey Somers --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "JG" wrote: > > Help sought for a photo I've posted of a mystery hummingbird from this morning (29 Aug 2010) that is different from the several Rufous, Calliope, and Black-chinned that are and have been here for several days... I suspect Anna's based on short straight bill, green in sides, throat pattern, and undertail markings. Anyone have any conclusive thoughts on it? Please post replies at MOB if you think I'm correct. Thanks! - Jim > Subject: Possible Anna's Humbird? Thompson Falls From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:26:21 -0000 Help sought for a photo I've posted of a mystery hummingbird from this morning (29 Aug 2010) that is different from the several Rufous, Calliope, and Black-chinned that are and have been here for several days... I suspect Anna's based on short straight bill, green in sides, throat pattern, and undertail markings. Anyone have any conclusive thoughts on it? Please post replies at MOB if you think I'm correct. Thanks! - Jim Subject: Re: female Costa's Hummingbird From: "JG" <lbviman AT blackfoot.net> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:16:31 -0000 couldn't find it --- In MOB-Montana AT yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Tree" wrote: > > I entered a photo I took of the first Costa's Hummingbird > ever seen in Montana in my Photo Album: "A MT BIRD." it was > a female Costa's Hummingbird. It stayed for about 3 months > or more approximately 3 miles up the Willow Creek Road at > Donna Hosko's feeder back on October 30th 2001. It left on > its own staying almost to November before it vanished. > > ENJOY! > > Sincerely, > WAYNE TREE > Subject: Photos; is there a problem? From: "Patrick A. Toomey Jr." <ptoomeyjr AT gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 14:46:02 -0000 Are any of you experiencing difficulties when uploading photos? This past week I have seen many situations where when looking at the new photos, that rather than a thumbnail being seen there is only a question mark. Other times if I hit refresh once or twice one photo will finally appear but not the others. I'd like your input so that I can contact support if there is an issue. I am uncertain as it may be as simple as the user is new to uploading and not attaching the file properly. Please let the rest of us know if you too are having problems so we can solve this problem if in fact there is one. Thanks, Patrick