Birdingonthe.Net Recent Postings from Frontiers of Identification > Home > Mail > Alerts Updated on Saturday, May 10 at 10:25 AM ET The most recently received Mail is at the top.	Heermans Gull,©Shawneen Finnegan

10 May Re: [EBN] Oldsquaw hybridisation [Harry Lehto ] 10 May Re: Sharp-tailed Sparrow images [Louis Bevier ] 9 May Re: Sharp-tailed Sparrow images [David Sibley ] 10 May Oldsquaw hybridisation ["Norman D.van Swelm" ] 9 May Re: Sharp-tailed Sparrow images [Andrew Birch ] 10 May red stints Grays Harbor on line ["Norman D.van Swelm" ] 9 May Sharp-tailed Sparrow images [] 9 May Re: Listowner Message [Mike Collins ] 9 May Tufted Flycatcher photos [Jerry Oldenettel ] 8 May "Frontiers"-relevant content in current issue of Birding [Ted Floyd ] 8 May Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) ["Norman D.van Swelm" ] 8 May Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) [Clay Taylor ] 8 May Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) ["Norman D.van Swelm" ] 7 May Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) [julian hough ] 6 May Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? [Clay Taylor ] 6 May Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? [Alan Contreras ] 6 May Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) ["Kevin T. Karlson" ] 6 May Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? [Alan Contreras ] 6 May Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) ["Lethaby, Nick" ] 6 May [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) [Ian Paulsen ] 6 May Phylloscopus borealis (Arctic Warbler), a 1st for Israel ? [Avner Cohen ] 5 May Re: RFI - Rail vocalization [Andrew Spencer ] 5 May Re: RFI - Rail vocalization [Sebastian Patti ] 5 May RFI - Rail vocalization [Andrew Spencer ] 5 May Sutton Warbler pics [Matt Sharp ] 4 May Re: Colorado Ruff ["Norman D.van Swelm" ] 4 May Re: Colorado Ruff [Richard Chandler ] 3 May Re: Colorado Ruff [John Puschock ] 3 May Re: Colorado Ruff ["Kevin T. Karlson" ] 3 May Colorado Ruff [Rachel Hopper ] 2 May Re: Sabine's Gull molt [Peter Pyle ] 1 May Listowner Message [will russell ] 1 May Re: IBWO cruising flight [Mike Collins ] 30 Apr Re: House Wren subspecies [Joseph Morlan ] 30 Apr Re: Sabine's Gull molt [Laurent Raty ] 29 Apr Re: Sabine's Gull molt [Peter Pyle ] 29 Apr Sabine's Gull molt [Joseph Morlan ] 26 Apr Re: House Wren subspecies [Ross Silcock ] 25 Apr Long-billed thrasher photos [Jerry Oldenettel ] 26 Apr LBBG's in the Americas ["Norman D.van Swelm" ] 24 Apr Re: FW: [alertaves] Sterna elegans en Prov de Bs As: primero registro para Argentina [Daniel PHILIPPE ] 23 Apr Carrier-Homing Pigeon for ID Please [Anand Arya ] 22 Apr Re: FW: [alertaves] Sterna elegans en Prov de Bs As: primero registro para Argentina [Laurent Raty ] 22 Apr Re: Little Egrets, Snowies and spoonbill. [Floyd Hayes ] 21 Apr Little Egrets, Snowies and spoonbill. [Alvaro Jaramillo ] 21 Apr Matsudaira's Storm-Petrel [DJ Lauten and KACastelein ] 21 Apr Re: Oiled Willet ID? ["Kevin T. Karlson" ] 19 Apr Re: Willet ID [Brendan Fogarty ] 19 Apr Re: Willet ID ["Kevin T. Karlson" ] 19 Apr Matsudaira's Storm Petrel [DJ Lauten and KACastelein ] 18 Apr Willet ID [Magill Weber ] 17 Apr House Wren subspecies ["Ian A. McLaren" ] Subject: Re: [EBN] Oldsquaw hybridisation From: Harry Lehto <hlehto AT UTU.FI> Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 18:25:15 +0300 Norm et al. A Long-tailed Duck male has hybridized with a Chestnut teal ( Anas castanea) female. (Gillham & Gillham Hybrid ducks referring to Delacour 1956 (54-59), Waterfowl of the world) Harry ------------------------------------------------- Dr. Harry J Lehto Tuorla Observatory University of Turku Väisäläntie 20 FI-21500 Piikkiö FINLAND hlehto(at)utu.fi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman D.van Swelm" Date: Saturday, May 10, 2008 3:56 am Subject: [EBN] Oldsquaw hybridisation > Have a look here please: > > http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/ducks/ducks6oldsquaw%20clangula%20hyemalis.htm > > Are other cases known or is this a first? > Norman > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sparrow images From: Louis Bevier <lrbevier AT COLBY.EDU> Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 09:54:30 -0400 I agree with David Sibley that the sharp-tailed sparrow seen on Boston Common looks like a Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed Sparrow. The obvious dark streaks in the rear portion of orange supercillium are very good for Saltmarsh. (Are these *always* lacking on Nelson's, which at most have only very fine lines?) The long bill is good too, but really difficult to assess on lone birds or without good comparative experience. One character that David mentions--orange malar contrasting with paler breast--is shown by Saltmarsh but doesn't eliminate Acadian (Nelson's) Sharp-tailed (subvirgatus race), which also can show similar contrast between an orangish malar and pale buff or whitish buff breast. Another feature shown by the Boston bird that should be noted is the fairly strong submalar streak (lateral throat streak). This is typical of Saltmarsh. Nelson's, especially subvirgatus that breeds along the coast from northeastern Massachusetts north, usually shows only a fine grayish submalar streak. A Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed Sparrow on Boston Common is a surprising record, and I'm still trying to imagine a sharp-tail sparrow flying UP to the lower branches of oak trees like a Chipping Sparrow to seek cover! There is an inland record from not far away in interior northeastern Connecticut. That is a specimen of a bird found dead along the Willimantic River at Willington, CT, about 35+ miles (56+ km) from the coast on 12 June 1973 (see pg. 109 in Clark, G. A. 1999. Birds of Storrs, Connecticut, and vicinity). That site is not contiguous with coastal localities (Boston Common is at least near the coast), and, although the Willimantic River does ultimately reach the coast, it is at New London where there are no Saltmarsh Sparrows nesting. Perhaps there are a few Saltmarsh Sparrows that attempt to "cut across" southeastern New England in migration. There are a few records more similar to the Boston Common bird, e.g. not far from tidal portions of rivers or coasts and away from saltmarshes (e.g. Conshohocken, PA in spring, and Tullytown, PA in fall). The far inland records from Pennsylvania that David mentioned are both from fall. David neglected to mention that he discussed these records among others in a short article published in North American Birds (vol.59, no. 3, pgs. 524-525, 2005). Saltmarsh Sparrow breeds along the coast north of Boston for about 140 miles. Surveys from 1997-2000 recorded 176 birds in marshes from about Plum I., Massachusetts north to Weskeag marsh in Knox County, Maine (see Hodgman et al., Wilson Bulletin vol. 114, no. 1, pgs. 38–43, 2002). Louis Bevier Fairfield, Maine Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sparrow images From: David Sibley <david_sibley AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 22:57:42 -0400 This looks like a typical Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed, with long bill, coarsely-marked face and breast, small dark streaks in the orange supercilium, and orange malar contrasting with paler breast. There are a couple of records of this species far inland in Pennsylvania, but it's true that ANY record away from coastal salt marsh is noteworthy, and there aren't very many nesting north of Boston. Best, David Sibley Concord, MA Andrew Birch wrote: > Hello All, > > I noticed Glenn's post included a hyphen on the end of the address for > my pics so... > > You can see them by going to http://bostonbirds.org/blog.html and > navigating to the Sharp-tailed entry, or you can go straight to the > files - > > http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss1.jpg - (side view) > http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss2.jpg - (straight on) > http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss3.jpg - (perspective) > > In the field everyone was leaning toward Nelson's but the side view > changed my mind when I cropped the image. If anyone would like the > raw image files I can make them available. Looking forward to your > feedback! > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Oldsquaw hybridisation From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL> Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 02:56:05 +0200 Have a look here please: http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/ducks/ducks6oldsquaw%20clangula%20hyemalis.htm Are other cases known or is this a first? Norman Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sparrow images From: Andrew Birch <andrewlbirch AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:46:02 -0400 Hello All, I noticed Glenn's post included a hyphen on the end of the address for my pics so... You can see them by going to http://bostonbirds.org/blog.html and navigating to the Sharp-tailed entry, or you can go straight to the files - http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss1.jpg - (side view) http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss2.jpg - (straight on) http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss3.jpg - (perspective) In the field everyone was leaning toward Nelson's but the side view changed my mind when I cropped the image. If anyone would like the raw image files I can make them available. Looking forward to your feedback! -- Andrew Birch Boston Birds Moderator http://bostonbirds.org andrewlbirch AT gmail.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: red stints Grays Harbor on line From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL> Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 02:52:23 +0200 Clay Taylor's picture which Kevin Karlson analysed and commented on is now available here: http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/identifacation%20problems/id%20problems.htm Interestingly the picture shows not one but two red stints and in the bird on the left a pale supercilium can be detected. Are they Western Sandpipers as Kevin suggested? If not three other stints which may show bright cinnamon in their breeding plumage remain to choose from. Little Stint, such as this one here: http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/LittleStintCalidrisminuta.htm Red-necked Stint of course and .......... Spoon-billed Sandpiper! Have a go please and tell us what you think. Cheers, Norman Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Sharp-tailed Sparrow images From: gdentremont AT JUNO.COM Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:26:53 -0400 http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss1.jpg- (side view)http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss2.jpg- (straight on)http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss3.jpg- (perspective) I would like some input of the bird in the above images taken in the Boston area. Also, does anyone have any reliable reports of Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed from any place other than a saltmarsh (I can think of none from MA)? I do not like to ID something from habitat alone, especially in migration. Thanking you in advance. Glenn Glenn d'Entremont, gdentremont AT juno.com, Stoughton, MA Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Listowner Message From: Mike Collins <cinclodes AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 15:37:12 -0700 >All of us have seen ID-F posts that we consider useless or senseless. After the announcement of the new video was posted, one of the participants in this forum (a professional biologist, who apparently didn't consider the post useless or senseless) encouraged me to send the raw data to a leading expert on the flight mechanics of woodpeckers. Based on the well-resolved flap style (which was captured from several angles), the expert has determined that the bird in the video is a large woodpecker with a flap rate that is too high to be a pileated. This really narrows down the list of possibilities, but the bird also has extensive white on the dorsal surfaces of the wings and a fast and direct flight (but it doesn't have duck-like flaps). I can't understand why any serious birder wouldn't consider this a fascinating identification problem, especially after hearing the comments from the expert. Mike Collins Annandale, Virginia Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Tufted Flycatcher photos From: Jerry Oldenettel <Borealowl AT AOL.COM> Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:57:08 EDT I have posted additional photos of the Herb Martyr Tufted Flycatcher on my photo site at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jroldenettel/ Jerry R. Oldenettel Socorro, NM ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: "Frontiers"-relevant content in current issue of Birding From: Ted Floyd <tedfloyd57 AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 13:58:32 -0700 Hello, Birders. Several articles with "Frontiers"-relevant content are in the current (May/June 2008) issue of Birding, and are available online: Photo Quiz Answers: Here's Lookin' At You...Spizella? by Tony Leukering http://aba.org/birding/v40n3p72.pdf Greenland Geese in North America by Dominic F. Sherony http://aba.org/birding/v40n3p46.pdf News and Notes by Paul Hess http://aba.org/birding/v40n3p34.pdf [see especially items on hybrid warblers and grebe-flamingo relationships] Sightings: Early March to Early April 2008 by Michael L. P. Retter http://aba.org/birding/v40n3p32.pdf Additional content at http://aba.org/birding/archives.html Comments always welcome! Ted Floyd tedfloyd57 AT hotmail.com Lafayette, Boulder County, Colorado _________________________________________________________________ Make Windows Vista more reliable and secure with Windows Vista Service Pack 1. http://www.windowsvista.com/SP1?WT.mc_id=hotmailvistasp1banner Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL> Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:17:50 +0200 Clay Taylor wrote: > True, but Kevin also noted the lack of any other head markings, supercilium, > etc. on Sleeping Waldo. Your photo example is boldly marked, as are > other photos I have seen.< Also true Clay but bear in mind that my pictures were taken at a very short distance, the further away a bird is the more these details fade away. If Kevin saw the same picture of the Grays Harbor peep as I did I admire him for being able to distinguish the features you mention as I saw barely more than a reddish dot! Cheers, Norman Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) From: Clay Taylor <ctaylor AT ATT.NET> Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 00:03:04 -0400 True, but Kevin also noted the lack of any other head markings, supercilium, etc. on Sleeping Waldo. Your photo example is boldly marked, as are other photos I have seen. Clay Taylor Moodus, CT ctaylor AT att.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman D.van Swelm" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:15 PM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) > Kevin T. Karlson wrote: >As far as the cinnamon color goes, it is very > bright for this time of year to be consistent with Little Stint, which > only shows the bright, cinnamon head color in mid to late summer. < > > Little Stint can be brightly coloured in spring too, have a look here: > > http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/LittleStintCalidrisminuta.htm > > In this plumage they may indeed resemble Sanderling in rufous breeding > plumage though that species is a lot bigger. > Norman > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL> Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 02:15:16 +0200 Kevin T. Karlson wrote: >As far as the cinnamon color goes, it is very bright for this time of year to be consistent with Little Stint, which only shows the bright, cinnamon head color in mid to late summer. < Little Stint can be brightly coloured in spring too, have a look here: http://members.lycos.nl/radioactiverobins/snipes-waders/LittleStintCalidrisminuta.htm In this plumage they may indeed resemble Sanderling in rufous breeding plumage though that species is a lot bigger. Norman Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) From: julian hough <jrhough1 AT SNET.NET> Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:10:15 -0700 I agree with what Kevin and the others have said regarding this bird. The only shot I saw was the flock shot and the color and the distribution of the cinammon color extending over the head and onto the back is at odds with either stint species. As for brightness, I have seen Little Stints in the UK and on passage in Spain in May that have been relatively brightly coloured on the head and Red-necked in China and Australia also in May that have been very brightly coloured, but as Kevin says, the distribution of color in any event doesn't match up. Strange bird.. J "Kevin T. Karlson" wrote: To all; I was sent a blow up of this photo by Clay Taylor the other day, and responded privately to him. Here is a copy of my text on this sandpiper: The fact that this bird has a rear toe eliminates Sanderling, and the size seems to be on the large end of Western Sandpiper. Since it has almost identical upper flank markings as the nearby Westerns, and the body structure seems similar as well, I would have to say female Western. As far as the cinnamon color goes, it is very bright for this time of year to be consistent with Little Stint, which only shows the bright, cinnamon head color in mid to late summer. Red-necked Stint should be smaller than most Westerns, particularly females, and they would not show any streaking within the head and neck color, which this bird clearly shows. Red-necked is also not this bright in early spring. I don't know how to explain the intense cinnamon color on this bird, especially the lack of pale supercilium that Western shows. It might be an overload of pigment, or another reason that I cannot think of. Either way, it looks fine in shape and markings for a Western, probably a large female. Anyway, I don't go looking for a rarity if only the color is off on a bird that has the markings of an expected species, and the shape as well. Kevin Ian Paulsen Bainbridge Island, WA, USA " Which just goes to show that aClay, passion for books is extremely unhealthy." from Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart". ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:46:27 -0700 From: Bob Stallcop To: Tweeters List Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? Tweets: I am posting this on behalf of Dave Richarson (wohlheter2 AT aol.com), please send any off-line replies to him. Here is a link to a photo of what I believe to be a Stint (Red-necked by my reckoning, but Little Stint by others) seen at Grays Harbor, WA on May 2, -----Original Message----- From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Paulsen Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:11 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) HI ALL: This is from the Tweeters (WA State) birding listserver. Any comments? -- Ian Paulsen Bainbridge Island, WA, USA " Which just goes to show that a passion for books is extremely unhealthy." from Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart". ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:46:27 -0700 From: Bob Stallcop To: Tweeters List Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? Tweets: I am posting this on behalf of Dave Richarson (wohlheter2 AT aol.com), please send any off-line replies to him. Here is a link to a photo of what I believe to be a Stint (Red-necked by my reckoning, but Little Stint by others) seen at Grays Harbor, WA on May 2, 2008: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3919&l=1b43e&id=1068148841 I did not see the bird foraging, but a number of others did. It was high tide and the bird was about 40 or 50 feet away from us. Marian Bailey, the Nisqually Wildlife Refuge biologist and a number of others saw it probing the sand with a large group of western sandpipers. Those who I questioned said it looked like a western sandpiper except for the fact that it was dramatically red on the head, nape, mantle and foreneck. Its belly was white. By the time the message was passed along the boardwalk to me the bird had settled down to sleep with the other western sandpipers. It was easy to find because of the color and many of us got to view it in our scopes and we got the two photos. After about 10 or 15 minutes it flushed and to my knowledge it was not seen again that day or the next two days of the festival. Of course we had at least 20,000 western sandpipers to wade through. I showed my photo to Charlie Wright, who knew nothing about the bird at the time, and Charlie thought it looked more like a Little Stint. Of course everyone wanted to see a more complete photo. This one looks like those photo quizes in the Birding magazine. I hope my photo might shed some additional information. It doesn't show details of feather patterns etc. but it is dramatically bright, looking more like red-necked stints I saw in Nome, AK. That was Marian's initial opinion as well. Could you give us any help with this? Bob Stallcop bstallcop AT seanet.com (425) 922-2300 Maple Valley Heights (Renton) WA. _______________________________________________ Tweeters mailing list Tweeters AT u.washington.edu http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/tweeters Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? From: Clay Taylor <ctaylor AT ATT.NET> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 23:51:15 -0400 No, he used mine. I'll send you one. At the moment, I have no photo site on which to post it, but I just sent it to Ian,. Ian, you have my permission to post it wherever is appropriate so others can see it. Clay Taylor Moodus, CT ctaylor AT att.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Contreras" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:45 PM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? I can't see its feet at all. Are you using the same photo? -- Alan Contreras EUGENE, OREGON acontrer AT mindspring.com www.OREGONREVIEW.BLOGSPOT.COM ­ Commentary www.CONTRERASBIRDS.BLOGSPOT.COM ­ Current Bird Photos "Every time I hear a political speech or I read those of our leaders, I am horrified at having, for years, heard nothing which sounded human. It is always the same words telling the same lies. And the fact that men accept this, that the people's anger has not destroyed these hollow clowns, strikes me as proof that men attribute no importance to the way they are governed; that they gamble--yes, gamble--with a whole part of their life and their so-called 'vital interests'." Albert Camus, 1937 > From: "Kevin T. Karlson" > Reply-To: "Kevin T. Karlson" > Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 23:41:37 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays > Harbor > May2? (fwd) > > cinnamon head > color in mid to late summer. Red-necked Stint should be smaller than most Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? From: Alan Contreras <acontrer AT MINDSPRING.COM> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 20:45:50 -0700 I can't see its feet at all. Are you using the same photo? -- Alan Contreras EUGENE, OREGON acontrer AT mindspring.com www.OREGONREVIEW.BLOGSPOT.COM ­ Commentary www.CONTRERASBIRDS.BLOGSPOT.COM ­ Current Bird Photos "Every time I hear a political speech or I read those of our leaders, I am horrified at having, for years, heard nothing which sounded human. It is always the same words telling the same lies. And the fact that men accept this, that the people's anger has not destroyed these hollow clowns, strikes me as proof that men attribute no importance to the way they are governed; that they gamble--yes, gamble--with a whole part of their life and their so-called 'vital interests'." Albert Camus, 1937 > From: "Kevin T. Karlson" > Reply-To: "Kevin T. Karlson" > Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 23:41:37 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor > May2? (fwd) > > cinnamon head > color in mid to late summer. Red-necked Stint should be smaller than most Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) From: "Kevin T. Karlson" <karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 23:41:37 -0400 To all; I was sent a blow up of this photo by Clay Taylor the other day, and responded privately to him. Here is a copy of my text on this sandpiper: The fact that this bird has a rear toe eliminates Sanderling, and the size seems to be on the large end of Western Sandpiper. Since it has almost identical upper flank markings as the nearby Westerns, and the body structure seems similar as well, I would have to say female Western. As far as the cinnamon color goes, it is very bright for this time of year to be consistent with Little Stint, which only shows the bright, cinnamon head color in mid to late summer. Red-necked Stint should be smaller than most Westerns, particularly females, and they would not show any streaking within the head and neck color, which this bird clearly shows. Red-necked is also not this bright in early spring. I don't know how to explain the intense cinnamon color on this bird, especially the lack of pale supercilium that Western shows. It might be an overload of pigment, or another reason that I cannot think of. Either way, it looks fine in shape and markings for a Western, probably a large female. Anyway, I don't go looking for a rarity if only the color is off on a bird that has the markings of an expected species, and the shape as well. Kevin Ian Paulsen Bainbridge Island, WA, USA " Which just goes to show that aClay, passion for books is extremely unhealthy." from Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart". ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:46:27 -0700 From: Bob Stallcop To: Tweeters List Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? Tweets: I am posting this on behalf of Dave Richarson (wohlheter2 AT aol.com), please send any off-line replies to him. Here is a link to a photo of what I believe to be a Stint (Red-necked by my reckoning, but Little Stint by others) seen at Grays Harbor, WA on May 2, -----Original Message----- From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Paulsen Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:11 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) HI ALL: This is from the Tweeters (WA State) birding listserver. Any comments? -- Ian Paulsen Bainbridge Island, WA, USA " Which just goes to show that a passion for books is extremely unhealthy." from Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart". ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:46:27 -0700 From: Bob Stallcop To: Tweeters List Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? Tweets: I am posting this on behalf of Dave Richarson (wohlheter2 AT aol.com), please send any off-line replies to him. Here is a link to a photo of what I believe to be a Stint (Red-necked by my reckoning, but Little Stint by others) seen at Grays Harbor, WA on May 2, 2008: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3919&l=1b43e&id=1068148841 I did not see the bird foraging, but a number of others did. It was high tide and the bird was about 40 or 50 feet away from us. Marian Bailey, the Nisqually Wildlife Refuge biologist and a number of others saw it probing the sand with a large group of western sandpipers. Those who I questioned said it looked like a western sandpiper except for the fact that it was dramatically red on the head, nape, mantle and foreneck. Its belly was white. By the time the message was passed along the boardwalk to me the bird had settled down to sleep with the other western sandpipers. It was easy to find because of the color and many of us got to view it in our scopes and we got the two photos. After about 10 or 15 minutes it flushed and to my knowledge it was not seen again that day or the next two days of the festival. Of course we had at least 20,000 western sandpipers to wade through. I showed my photo to Charlie Wright, who knew nothing about the bird at the time, and Charlie thought it looked more like a Little Stint. Of course everyone wanted to see a more complete photo. This one looks like those photo quizes in the Birding magazine. I hope my photo might shed some additional information. It doesn't show details of feather patterns etc. but it is dramatically bright, looking more like red-necked stints I saw in Nome, AK. That was Marian's initial opinion as well. Could you give us any help with this? Bob Stallcop bstallcop AT seanet.com (425) 922-2300 Maple Valley Heights (Renton) WA. _______________________________________________ Tweeters mailing list Tweeters AT u.washington.edu http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/tweeters Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? From: Alan Contreras <acontrer AT MINDSPRING.COM> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 20:29:39 -0700 The huge expanse of color makes it look like a Sanderling. Having made that mistake twice (and helped a group of birders avoid making it once) I know what it feels like. I suppose it could also be a color-dyed Western. Maybe an extreme variant Red-necked could look that way. I have only seen a couple of June adults and a couple of juveniles. -- Alan Contreras EUGENE, OREGON acontrer AT mindspring.com www.OREGONREVIEW.BLOGSPOT.COM ­ Commentary www.CONTRERASBIRDS.BLOGSPOT.COM ­ Current Bird Photos "Every time I hear a political speech or I read those of our leaders, I am horrified at having, for years, heard nothing which sounded human. It is always the same words telling the same lies. And the fact that men accept this, that the people's anger has not destroyed these hollow clowns, strikes me as proof that men attribute no importance to the way they are governed; that they gamble--yes, gamble--with a whole part of their life and their so-called 'vital interests'." Albert Camus, 1937 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby AT TI.COM> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 22:16:32 -0500 This is just some freaky bird, presumably a Western based on the descriptions of it being similar to Westerns. A RNST or LIST doesn't look anything like this. -----Original Message----- From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Paulsen Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:11 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDWG01] [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) HI ALL: This is from the Tweeters (WA State) birding listserver. Any comments? -- Ian Paulsen Bainbridge Island, WA, USA " Which just goes to show that a passion for books is extremely unhealthy." from Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart". ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:46:27 -0700 From: Bob Stallcop To: Tweeters List Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? Tweets: I am posting this on behalf of Dave Richarson (wohlheter2 AT aol.com), please send any off-line replies to him. Here is a link to a photo of what I believe to be a Stint (Red-necked by my reckoning, but Little Stint by others) seen at Grays Harbor, WA on May 2, 2008: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3919&l=1b43e&id=1068148841 I did not see the bird foraging, but a number of others did. It was high tide and the bird was about 40 or 50 feet away from us. Marian Bailey, the Nisqually Wildlife Refuge biologist and a number of others saw it probing the sand with a large group of western sandpipers. Those who I questioned said it looked like a western sandpiper except for the fact that it was dramatically red on the head, nape, mantle and foreneck. Its belly was white. By the time the message was passed along the boardwalk to me the bird had settled down to sleep with the other western sandpipers. It was easy to find because of the color and many of us got to view it in our scopes and we got the two photos. After about 10 or 15 minutes it flushed and to my knowledge it was not seen again that day or the next two days of the festival. Of course we had at least 20,000 western sandpipers to wade through. I showed my photo to Charlie Wright, who knew nothing about the bird at the time, and Charlie thought it looked more like a Little Stint. Of course everyone wanted to see a more complete photo. This one looks like those photo quizes in the Birding magazine. I hope my photo might shed some additional information. It doesn't show details of feather patterns etc. but it is dramatically bright, looking more like red-necked stints I saw in Nome, AK. That was Marian's initial opinion as well. Could you give us any help with this? Bob Stallcop bstallcop AT seanet.com (425) 922-2300 Maple Valley Heights (Renton) WA. _______________________________________________ Tweeters mailing list Tweeters AT u.washington.edu http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/tweeters Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? (fwd) From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker AT ZIPCON.NET> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 20:10:43 -0700 HI ALL: This is from the Tweeters (WA State) birding listserver. Any comments? -- Ian Paulsen Bainbridge Island, WA, USA " Which just goes to show that a passion for books is extremely unhealthy." from Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart". ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 18:46:27 -0700 From: Bob Stallcop To: Tweeters List Subject: [Tweeters] Red-necked or Little Stint at Grays Harbor May2? Tweets: I am posting this on behalf of Dave Richarson (wohlheter2 AT aol.com), please send any off-line replies to him. Here is a link to a photo of what I believe to be a Stint (Red-necked by my reckoning, but Little Stint by others) seen at Grays Harbor, WA on May 2, 2008: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3919&l=1b43e&id=1068148841 I did not see the bird foraging, but a number of others did. It was high tide and the bird was about 40 or 50 feet away from us. Marian Bailey, the Nisqually Wildlife Refuge biologist and a number of others saw it probing the sand with a large group of western sandpipers. Those who I questioned said it looked like a western sandpiper except for the fact that it was dramatically red on the head, nape, mantle and foreneck. Its belly was white. By the time the message was passed along the boardwalk to me the bird had settled down to sleep with the other western sandpipers. It was easy to find because of the color and many of us got to view it in our scopes and we got the two photos. After about 10 or 15 minutes it flushed and to my knowledge it was not seen again that day or the next two days of the festival. Of course we had at least 20,000 western sandpipers to wade through. I showed my photo to Charlie Wright, who knew nothing about the bird at the time, and Charlie thought it looked more like a Little Stint. Of course everyone wanted to see a more complete photo. This one looks like those photo quizes in the Birding magazine. I hope my photo might shed some additional information. It doesn't show details of feather patterns etc. but it is dramatically bright, looking more like red-necked stints I saw in Nome, AK. That was Marian's initial opinion as well. Could you give us any help with this? Bob Stallcop bstallcop AT seanet.com (425) 922-2300 Maple Valley Heights (Renton) WA. _______________________________________________ Tweeters mailing list Tweeters AT u.washington.edu http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/tweeters Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Phylloscopus borealis (Arctic Warbler), a 1st for Israel ? From: Avner Cohen <AvnerCo AT FUNDTECH.CO.IL> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 14:42:51 +0300 Greetings all, A Phylloscopus borealis (Arctic Warbler) has been seemingly sighted and photographed at the southern tip of Israel (Eilat). The local knowledge on this species is very limited and being a potential first for the country, I will appreciate comments from people experienced with this species. Image (single one for the time being) can be found at : http://www.israbirding.com/reports/rarity_alerts/arctic_warbler_eilat_08 / I will highly appreciate comments regarding the bird, even just privately sending "sure it is one!" will be of great help. Best Regards, Avner Cohen, Israel. Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: RFI - Rail vocalization From: Andrew Spencer <gwwarbler AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 18:11:29 -0600 I don't think it is the "grr" call of Black Rail - that is higher pitched, on one pitch, and faster, with more notes. I recorded it from an agitated bird immediately before I made this recording. I have had a couple of people who know King Rail well say they don't recognize this vocalization, and who say they don't recognize this vocalization at all. I don't think it is from Virginia Rail - it is lower pitched, and more resonant. I don't think it was very loud; it didn't seem all that far away. Andrew Spencer Fort Collins, CO Sebastian Patti wrote: > hard to tell how "loud" the call was, i.e. no sense of distance, but couldn't that be a Black Rail "grrr" call??? > > > > > > sebastianpatti AT hotmail.comSebastian T. Patti (Lincoln Park) Chicago, ILLINOIS 60614-3354 PHONE: 312/603-4416 (o) 773/248-0570 (h) FAX: 312/603-2041 (o) 773/248-0264 (h) > > ---------------------------------------- > >> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:53:45 -0600 >> From: gwwarbler AT GMAIL.COM >> Subject: [BIRDWG01] RFI - Rail vocalization >> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >> >> Hello all, >> >> While down in southeastern Colorado this past weekend, I was recording >> Black Rails in the Fort Lyon area marshes when I heard a deep grunting >> call come from nearby. Luckily, I had my mic on, so I got it in the >> background of my recording. I have posted it as a mystery sound here: >> >> http://www.xeno-canto.org/discussion.php?snd_nr=681 >> >> The call is quiet, and in the background, so you might need to listed >> with headphones, and ignore the much louder Black Rail in the foreground. >> >> Birds of North America describes a call: "given by males during the >> prenesting period is a deep booming sound /óom-óom-óom/, requiring an >> effort that causes the body to appear to expand slightly. It is not very >> loud and its purpose unknown. ", which sounds very similar to what I >> recorded. I have never heard a call like this from Virginia Rail, nor >> does BNA describe anything that matches. Can any of you with experience >> with King Rail vocalizations say if that is the species that made this >> one? Or have any of you heard this sound from other marsh species? Thanks, >> >> Andrew Spencer >> Fort Collins, CO >> >> >> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 >> >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html >> > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: RFI - Rail vocalization From: Sebastian Patti <sebastianpatti AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 18:44:16 -0500 hard to tell how "loud" the call was, i.e. no sense of distance, but couldn't that be a Black Rail "grrr" call??? sebastianpatti AT hotmail.comSebastian T. Patti (Lincoln Park) Chicago, ILLINOIS 60614-3354 PHONE: 312/603-4416 (o) 773/248-0570 (h) FAX: 312/603-2041 (o) 773/248-0264 (h) ---------------------------------------- > Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:53:45 -0600 > From: gwwarbler AT GMAIL.COM > Subject: [BIRDWG01] RFI - Rail vocalization > To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > Hello all, > > While down in southeastern Colorado this past weekend, I was recording > Black Rails in the Fort Lyon area marshes when I heard a deep grunting > call come from nearby. Luckily, I had my mic on, so I got it in the > background of my recording. I have posted it as a mystery sound here: > > http://www.xeno-canto.org/discussion.php?snd_nr=681 > > The call is quiet, and in the background, so you might need to listed > with headphones, and ignore the much louder Black Rail in the foreground. > > Birds of North America describes a call: "given by males during the > prenesting period is a deep booming sound /óom-óom-óom/, requiring an > effort that causes the body to appear to expand slightly. It is not very > loud and its purpose unknown. ", which sounds very similar to what I > recorded. I have never heard a call like this from Virginia Rail, nor > does BNA describe anything that matches. Can any of you with experience > with King Rail vocalizations say if that is the species that made this > one? Or have any of you heard this sound from other marsh species? Thanks, > > Andrew Spencer > Fort Collins, CO > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: RFI - Rail vocalization From: Andrew Spencer <gwwarbler AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:53:45 -0600 Hello all, While down in southeastern Colorado this past weekend, I was recording Black Rails in the Fort Lyon area marshes when I heard a deep grunting call come from nearby. Luckily, I had my mic on, so I got it in the background of my recording. I have posted it as a mystery sound here: http://www.xeno-canto.org/discussion.php?snd_nr=681 The call is quiet, and in the background, so you might need to listed with headphones, and ignore the much louder Black Rail in the foreground. Birds of North America describes a call: "given by males during the prenesting period is a deep booming sound /óom-óom-óom/, requiring an effort that causes the body to appear to expand slightly. It is not very loud and its purpose unknown. ", which sounds very similar to what I recorded. I have never heard a call like this from Virginia Rail, nor does BNA describe anything that matches. Can any of you with experience with King Rail vocalizations say if that is the species that made this one? Or have any of you heard this sound from other marsh species? Thanks, Andrew Spencer Fort Collins, CO Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Sutton Warbler pics From: Matt Sharp <gentrysharp AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 12:05:23 -0400 Not really a ID question but thought other might find this interesting. I have never come across such good pics of this bird and wonder if anything comparable even exists! Best http://www.westol.com/~banding/Suttons_Warbler.htm http://www.birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/PENN.html#1209944645 http://www.birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/PENN.html#1209922206 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Colorado Ruff From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL> Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 12:30:16 +0200 Like so many other wader species on migration at this very moment passing Ruffs show all kinds of stages mo(u)lting from winter to breeding plumage. I bet if you could trap this adult male you will find both crest and ruff in the making underneath it's head and neck feathers. Norman Richard Chandler wrote: >This is a most interesting bird. First, as Kevin Karlson says, it is a male, on both size in comparison with the Lesser Yellowlegs, and also on structure. Compared to a (more delicate) female Ruff it is bulky, rather angular in shape, and has a proportionally smaller head and bill. It is in breeding/alternate plumage (which Ruffs of both sexes acquire from late January), but it does not show any supplementary breeding plumage, that is the ruff, ear tufts, etc. In Europe male Ruffs have their supplemental plumage from mid-late April. So why is it not in full supplementary plumage? There are two or three likely explanations for this that I can think of. First it is simply delayed in attaining its supplemental plumage, perhaps because it is un-fit, or simply totally disoriented. This seems unlikely, as if this was the case it would still show mainly basic plumage, and would not have acquired breeding plumage. Second, it might be a second calendar year bird that will not breed; again this is inconsistent with the near complete alternate plumage. However I would like to see the wing-coverts (in the images shown they are largely covered by the breast feathers) which are usually retained juvenile or basic feathers in second calendar years, but breeding-type in adults. The third possibility is that this is an example of the recently recognised "faeder", a male with female-type breeding plumage which "sneaks" matings at the lek. Faeders are rare; 1 in 100 apparently. They have measurements that in just about every respect are intermediate between conventional males and females. Difficult to be sure, but as I said, an interesting bird. On a secondary issue, does anyone know if Ruffs breed in north America? Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Colorado Ruff From: Richard Chandler <r_chandler AT TISCALI.CO.UK> Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 10:53:48 +0100 This is a most interesting bird. First, as Kevin Karlson says, it is a male, on both size in comparison with the Lesser Yellowlegs, and also on structure. Compared to a (more delicate) female Ruff it is bulky, rather angular in shape, and has a proportionally smaller head and bill. It is in breeding/alternate plumage (which Ruffs of both sexes acquire from late January), but it does not show any supplementary breeding plumage, that is the ruff, ear tufts, etc. In Europe male Ruffs have their supplemental plumage from mid-late April. So why is it not in full supplementary plumage? There are two or three likely explanations for this that I can think of. First it is simply delayed in attaining its supplemental plumage, perhaps because it is un-fit, or simply totally disoriented. This seems unlikely, as if this was the case it would still show mainly basic plumage, and would not have acquired breeding plumage. Second, it might be a second calendar year bird that will not breed; again this is inconsistent with the near complete alternate plumage. However I would like to see the wing-coverts (in the images shown they are largely covered by the breast feathers) which are usually retained juvenile or basic feathers in second calendar years, but breeding-type in adults. The third possibility is that this is an example of the recently recognised "faeder", a male with female-type breeding plumage which "sneaks" matings at the lek. Faeders are rare; 1 in 100 apparently. They have measurements that in just about every respect are intermediate between conventional males and females. Difficult to be sure, but as I said, an interesting bird. On a secondary issue, does anyone know if Ruffs breed in north America? Richard Chandler Oundle UK Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Colorado Ruff From: John Puschock <g_g_allin AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 19:43:30 +0000 > I will show Clive Minton this photo when I return from Alaska in 2 1/2 weeks > and give you feedback from an Australian shorebird expert. Ted told me > yesterday that the bird in question also dwarfed a Lesser Yellowlegs in body > bulk and overall size, although not length, which a Reeve would not. I wish > a photo had been taken with the Lesser Yellowlegs in the same frame. It > would eliminate all this discussion. > Kevin There is a photo of this bird next to a yellowlegs in the Surfbirds 'North American Stop Press' photo gallery (http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery10) John Puschock Seattle, WA g_g_allin AT hotmail.com http://www.birdtreks.com _________________________________________________________________ Get Free (PRODUCT) RED™ Emoticons, Winks and Display Pics. http://joinred.spaces.live.com?ocid=TXT_HMTG_prodredemoticons_052008 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Colorado Ruff From: "Kevin T. Karlson" <karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 14:48:42 -0400 To All; I responded privately to Rachel and Ted Floyd about the bird in this posting, but I did not get the message from Frontiers in my e-mail, so I thought that I would respond with the original message attached with the same message that I sent earlier. Kevin Karlson Rachel and Ted, I think this bird is a Ruff, not a Reeve. I saw hundreds of Ruffs and several Reeves in Israel in December, and just by body shape alone, it matches the large, rounded body shape of Ruff and not the slender, tapered shape of Reeve. In direct comparison, which does not happen often since they segregate by sex during migration and mostly in winter as well, you can see the bulky, more rounded body shape of Ruff, with thicker neck, giving the head a disproportionally small impression. I did not get this impression when a few much smaller nonbreeding Reeves walked past a group of about 200 Ruffs. The Reeves gave the impression of Pectoral Sandpiper in shape, somewhat slender and more tapered. Also, adult Reeve in breeding plumage shows limited amounts of the complex dark markings on the breast (see photo of about 25 breeding Reeves taken in May in Greece on page 303 in The Shorebird Guide), and none of the rich, cinnamon coloration on the head, back, breast and flanks that the Colorado bird shows. I have limited experience in the field with breeding season Ruffs, although I saw and photographed a questionable sex bird near Cape May a few years ago in May, which I thought was a first summer Ruff, while others thought it to be a Reeve. I sent the photo to my friend Clive Minton in Australia, who was also puzzled by the dark markings on this bird, so he sent it to his biologist friend in Russia, who has worked with breeding Ruffs and Reeves for many years. He said it was a Reeve, but a heavily marked one at that, ad a tough ID for most birders in the field with limited experience with breeding Ruffs and Reeves. I have attached a link to that photo http://www.kevinkarlsonphotography.com/gallery/v/Shorebirds/Sandpipers/Reeve +and+rutu_+NJ_+May.jpg.html I will show Clive Minton this photo when I return from Alaska in 2 1/2 weeks and give you feedback from an Australian shorebird expert. Ted told me yesterday that the bird in question also dwarfed a Lesser Yellowlegs in body bulk and overall size, although not length, which a Reeve would not. I wish a photo had been taken with the Lesser Yellowlegs in the same frame. It would eliminate all this discussion. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Rachel Hopper Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 8:04 AM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDWG01] Colorado Ruff Hi all, I am interested in any comments on a Ruff that was discovered in Boulder, Colorado, by Ted Floyd on May 1. The discussion on our listserv has most folks leaning heavily towards an adult female in alternate. However, there has been a suggestion that the bird might be a formative plumaged male or "satellite male." Pictures can be seen using the links below: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24817180 AT N02/show/ www.pbase.com/birdercellist/inbox Thanks for any help. ----------------------- Rachel Hopper Ft. Collins, CO Visit the CFO County Birding site at: www.coloradocountybirding.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Colorado Ruff From: Rachel Hopper <r-hopper AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 06:03:49 -0600 Hi all, I am interested in any comments on a Ruff that was discovered in Boulder, Colorado, by Ted Floyd on May 1. The discussion on our listserv has most folks leaning heavily towards an adult female in alternate. However, there has been a suggestion that the bird might be a formative plumaged male or "satellite male." Pictures can be seen using the links below: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24817180 AT N02/show/ www.pbase.com/birdercellist/inbox Thanks for any help. ----------------------- Rachel Hopper Ft. Collins, CO Visit the CFO County Birding site at: www.coloradocountybirding.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sabine's Gull molt From: Peter Pyle <ppyle AT BIRDPOP.ORG> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 13:20:35 -0700 Hello Laurent - Howell and Dunn (p. 337) provide a good summary of the definitive molting cycle in Sabine' Gull. The prebasic molt actually begins with head feathers on the breeding grounds or during southbound migration, and completes primarily on the winter grounds. Many transequatorial migrant species delay the prebasic molt due to more favorable conditions for "winter" molt in the opposite hemisphere. There are no constraints on timing, as there is with north-hemisphere wintering species (such as Black-headed Gull), so the molt becomes protracted over the non-breeding season. The prealternate molt only includes body feathers and can overlap the tail end of the protracted prebasic molt, but it can still be treated as a prealternate molt, homologous with the partial molt in Black-headed Gull. I hope this helps clear it up. Peter Pyle At 07:13 PM 4/29/2008, Laurent Raty wrote: >Hi Peter, > >But Sabine's molt strategy is not simply characterised by an increase in >the amount of feathers molted during their preformative molts. After >their complete preformative molt, unlike any other gull species, they >stay on a 'reversed' cycle, with partial molts in autumn and complete >molts in spring. > >Under Humphrey & Parkes' terminology, as far as I understand it, a >complete molt occurring once every cycle should always be termed >prebasic (independently of other phenomena in the bird cycle such as >season or breeding, that may influence the brightness of the plumage it >produces). The possible partial molts between them should be called >prealternate. Prebasic molts (and the basic plumages acquired through >them) are explicitly assumed to be homologous across all bird species; >prealternate molts are presumed to have been 'added' between them. > >How does this apply to Sabine's Gull? Does this make their dark-hooded >summer plumage a basic plumage, not homologous to the dark-hooded summer >plumage of, say, a Black-headed Gull? > >Best, >Laurent - > > >Peter Pyle wrote: >>Hi Joe and all - >>Under the revised terminology of Howell et al. 2003 (Condor >>105:635-653) the "first prebasic molt" (PB1) is now considered to be >> the molt into juvenal plumage, which occurs at the natal site >> (synonymous with "prejuvenal molt"). Formerly, various molts were >> considered the PB1, including what we now call the preformative molt >> (most species), the first-prealternate molt (some species that lack >> preformative molts), or the second prebasic molt (some hawks, >> seabirds, and a few other taxa that lack first-cycle molts al >> together). This did not reflect evolutionary homologies among birds, >> which is what Humphrey and Parkes were trying to achieve with their >> nomenclature. The revisions of Howell et al. (2003) have greatly >> improved first-cycle H-P terminology from an evolutionary standpoint >> and have made it much easier to train students in the use of molt >>for ageing and identification. >>The preformative molt varies across species from absent to partial to >> incomplete to complete, depending on the life-history strategies of >> the species, and not as much on phylogenetics. Only a small >> proportion of species have evolved complete preformative molts, >> including species that are small and do not need substantial >> energy to replace all feathers (hummingbirds, Bushtit, etc.) and >> certain opportunists that can find enough resources during their >> first year to undergo a complete molt (starlings, doves). Most >> waterbirds that undergo complete preformative molts are small and >> highly migratory species that spend the first boreal winter in the >> southern hemisphere, where austral-summer resources and foraging >> day-lengths are sufficient to undergo more complete molting. These >> include some sandpipers, some terns, and Sabine's Gull. In many >> species, the molt >> can vary from incomplete to complete among individuals. Thus, >> completeness cannot be used to define these molts, and they are still >> preformative molts when compared to related or ancestral species. If >> you called the preformative molt in these waterbirds the PB1, >> just because they are complete, then you would be comparing them >> with preformative molts in related species (e.g., other sandpipers, terns, >> and gulls) and homology would be lost. >>Molt is not a user-friendly subject but once you look at it from an >>evolutionary perspective, as Humphrey and Parkes originally promoted, >> it becomes a lot clearer. Hope this helps. >>Peter >>At 08:35 AM 4/29/2008, Joseph Morlan wrote: >>>Last week I was teaching gulls in my Ornithology class and was >>>confused by the account of Sabine's Gull molt in "Gulls of the >>>Americas" by Howell & Dunn. >>>Page 338 discusses a "typically complete" PF (preformative) molt. >>>If it's complete, then why not call it PB1 (prebasic 1)? >>>Under Second Cycle the book discusses a PB2 molt. How can there >>>logically be a PB2 molt unless there is also a PB1 molt? >>>-- Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu >>>Birding Classes start Apr 1 in SF http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/ >>>California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/ > > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > >Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Listowner Message From: will russell <willrussell AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:17:32 -0700 Good morning: This seems like a good time to remind all ID-F subscribers that ID-F is an open forum. People can register and post without delay. In all the years that I've overseen the list, I can't recall once having to remove a subscriber for unbecoming conduct. There have of course been a few occasions where the discourse has become rough or unbearably silly and I've felt obliged to speak privately to the parties involved. I much prefer this approach. All of us have seen ID-F posts that we consider useless or senseless . or worse. This is an inevitable part of an open list and sometimes results in a furious exchange. I would like to encourage all subscribers to act in what history shows is among the most effective ways of responding to what they consider nonsense..no response at all. Thanks. Will Russell Listowner Will Russell willrussell AT comcast.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: IBWO cruising flight From: Mike Collins <cinclodes AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 08:54:12 -0700 I have recently posted additional information on the new video (including comments from an expert on the flight mechanics of birds) here... http://www.fishcrow.com/winter08.html Mike Collins Annandale, Virginia Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: House Wren subspecies From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:20:32 -0700 FWIW I decided to dig into the literature. T. parkmanii was originally described by Audubon (1841). His original description focuses mostly on the length and curvature of the bill: http://www.abirdshome.com/Audubon/VolII/00210.html In "A Revision of the North American House Wrens," Oberholser described parkmanii thus: SUBSPECIFIC CHARACTERS.—Similar to Troglodytes domesticus baldwini, but much paler, and sometimes more grayish above; sides and flanks paler, rather more rufescent; remainder of lower surface lighter, more buffy. https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/1811/2678/1/V34N02_086.pdf Neither of these authors make an issue about the extent or prominence of back barring. However Ridgway and Bent both describe parkmanii as slightly larger, but paler and grayer with the back and scapulars more distinctly barred with dusky. Ridgway's description appears to be the first reference to back barring as a feature distinguishing parkmanii from nominate aedon. However it is given last in the list of distinguishing features. Handbook of Birds of the World says parkmanii is "larger, paler and grayer" than nominate. It makes no mention of any differences in back barring. My guess is that back barring varies in both races. On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:29:17 -0500, Ross Silcock wrote: >I haven't seen any responses to this interesting question- did I miss them >(it)? > >Ross > >Ross Silcock >P.O. Box 57 >Tabor, IA 51653 >New Zealand Land and Pelagic Bird Tours >http://www.rosssilcock.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ian A. McLaren" >To: >Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:33 PM >Subject: [BIRDWG01] House Wren subspecies > > >> All: >> >> I'm confused (not infrequent). Pyle gives "western" subspecies _parkmanii_ >> as >> "back feathers usually with dusky barring" and "eastern" _aedon_ as "back >> feathers usually unmarked" and this echoes Phillips' statements. Yet >> illustrations in both Nat. Geogr. and Sibley Guide seem to show the >> opposite. >> >> Am I missing something? >> >> Cheers, Ian M. >> >> Ian McLaren >> Biology Department >> Dalhousie University >> Halifax, NS Canada B3H 4J1 >> >> >> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: >> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 >> >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html >> > > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > >Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html -- Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu Birding Classes start Apr 1 in SF http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/ California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/ Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sabine's Gull molt From: Laurent Raty <l.raty AT SKYNET.BE> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 04:13:46 +0200 Hi Peter, But Sabine's molt strategy is not simply characterised by an increase in the amount of feathers molted during their preformative molts. After their complete preformative molt, unlike any other gull species, they stay on a 'reversed' cycle, with partial molts in autumn and complete molts in spring. Under Humphrey & Parkes' terminology, as far as I understand it, a complete molt occurring once every cycle should always be termed prebasic (independently of other phenomena in the bird cycle such as season or breeding, that may influence the brightness of the plumage it produces). The possible partial molts between them should be called prealternate. Prebasic molts (and the basic plumages acquired through them) are explicitly assumed to be homologous across all bird species; prealternate molts are presumed to have been 'added' between them. How does this apply to Sabine's Gull? Does this make their dark-hooded summer plumage a basic plumage, not homologous to the dark-hooded summer plumage of, say, a Black-headed Gull? Best, Laurent - Peter Pyle wrote: > Hi Joe and all - > > Under the revised terminology of Howell et al. 2003 (Condor > 105:635-653) the "first prebasic molt" (PB1) is now considered to be > the molt into juvenal plumage, which occurs at the natal site > (synonymous with "prejuvenal molt"). Formerly, various molts were > considered the PB1, including what we now call the preformative molt > (most species), the first-prealternate molt (some species that lack > preformative molts), or the second prebasic molt (some hawks, > seabirds, and a few other taxa that lack first-cycle molts al > together). This did not reflect evolutionary homologies among birds, > which is what Humphrey and Parkes were trying to achieve with their > nomenclature. The revisions of Howell et al. (2003) have greatly > improved first-cycle H-P terminology from an evolutionary standpoint > and have made it much easier to train students in the use of molt > for ageing and identification. > > The preformative molt varies across species from absent to partial to > incomplete to complete, depending on the life-history strategies of > the species, and not as much on phylogenetics. Only a small > proportion of species have evolved complete preformative molts, > including species that are small and do not need substantial energy > to replace all feathers (hummingbirds, Bushtit, etc.) and certain > opportunists that can find enough resources during their first year > to undergo a complete molt (starlings, doves). Most waterbirds that > undergo complete preformative molts are small and highly migratory > species that spend the first boreal winter in the southern > hemisphere, where austral-summer resources and foraging day-lengths > are sufficient to undergo more complete molting. These include some > sandpipers, some terns, and Sabine's Gull. In many species, the molt > can vary from incomplete to complete among individuals. Thus, > completeness cannot be used to define these molts, and they are still > preformative molts when compared to related or ancestral species. If > you called the preformative molt in these waterbirds the PB1, just > because they are complete, then you would be comparing them with > preformative molts in related species (e.g., other sandpipers, terns, > and gulls) and homology would be lost. > > Molt is not a user-friendly subject but once you look at it from an > evolutionary perspective, as Humphrey and Parkes originally promoted, > it becomes a lot clearer. Hope this helps. > > Peter > > At 08:35 AM 4/29/2008, Joseph Morlan wrote: >> Last week I was teaching gulls in my Ornithology class and was >> confused by the account of Sabine's Gull molt in "Gulls of the >> Americas" by Howell & Dunn. >> >> Page 338 discusses a "typically complete" PF (preformative) molt. >> If it's complete, then why not call it PB1 (prebasic 1)? >> >> Under Second Cycle the book discusses a PB2 molt. How can there >> logically be a PB2 molt unless there is also a PB1 molt? >> >> -- Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu >> Birding Classes start Apr 1 in SF http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/ >> California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/ Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sabine's Gull molt From: Peter Pyle <ppyle AT BIRDPOP.ORG> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:18:27 -0700 Hi Joe and all - Under the revised terminology of Howell et al. 2003 (Condor 105:635-653) the "first prebasic molt" (PB1) is now considered to be the molt into juvenal plumage, which occurs at the natal site (synonymous with "prejuvenal molt"). Formerly, various molts were considered the PB1, including what we now call the preformative molt (most species), the first-prealternate molt (some species that lack preformative molts), or the second prebasic molt (some hawks, seabirds, and a few other taxa that lack first-cycle molts al together). This did not reflect evolutionary homologies among birds, which is what Humphrey and Parkes were trying to achieve with their nomenclature. The revisions of Howell et al. (2003) have greatly improved first-cycle H-P terminology from an evolutionary standpoint and have made it much easier to train students in the use of molt for ageing and identification. The preformative molt varies across species from absent to partial to incomplete to complete, depending on the life-history strategies of the species, and not as much on phylogenetics. Only a small proportion of species have evolved complete preformative molts, including species that are small and do not need substantial energy to replace all feathers (hummingbirds, Bushtit, etc.) and certain opportunists that can find enough resources during their first year to undergo a complete molt (starlings, doves). Most waterbirds that undergo complete preformative molts are small and highly migratory species that spend the first boreal winter in the southern hemisphere, where austral-summer resources and foraging day-lengths are sufficient to undergo more complete molting. These include some sandpipers, some terns, and Sabine's Gull. In many species, the molt can vary from incomplete to complete among individuals. Thus, completeness cannot be used to define these molts, and they are still preformative molts when compared to related or ancestral species. If you called the preformative molt in these waterbirds the PB1, just because they are complete, then you would be comparing them with preformative molts in related species (e.g., other sandpipers, terns, and gulls) and homology would be lost. Molt is not a user-friendly subject but once you look at it from an evolutionary perspective, as Humphrey and Parkes originally promoted, it becomes a lot clearer. Hope this helps. Peter At 08:35 AM 4/29/2008, Joseph Morlan wrote: >Last week I was teaching gulls in my Ornithology class and was confused by >the account of Sabine's Gull molt in "Gulls of the Americas" by Howell & >Dunn. > >Page 338 discusses a "typically complete" PF (preformative) molt. If it's >complete, then why not call it PB1 (prebasic 1)? > >Under Second Cycle the book discusses a PB2 molt. How can there logically >be a PB2 molt unless there is also a PB1 molt? > >-- >Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu >Birding Classes start Apr 1 in SF http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/ >California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/ > > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > >Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Sabine's Gull molt From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:35:42 -0700 Last week I was teaching gulls in my Ornithology class and was confused by the account of Sabine's Gull molt in "Gulls of the Americas" by Howell & Dunn. Page 338 discusses a "typically complete" PF (preformative) molt. If it's complete, then why not call it PB1 (prebasic 1)? Under Second Cycle the book discusses a PB2 molt. How can there logically be a PB2 molt unless there is also a PB1 molt? -- Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu Birding Classes start Apr 1 in SF http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/ California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/ Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: House Wren subspecies From: Ross Silcock <silcock AT ROSSSILCOCK.COM> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:29:17 -0500 I haven't seen any responses to this interesting question- did I miss them (it)? Ross Ross Silcock P.O. Box 57 Tabor, IA 51653 New Zealand Land and Pelagic Bird Tours http://www.rosssilcock.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian A. McLaren" To: Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:33 PM Subject: [BIRDWG01] House Wren subspecies > All: > > I'm confused (not infrequent). Pyle gives "western" subspecies _parkmanii_ > as > "back feathers usually with dusky barring" and "eastern" _aedon_ as "back > feathers usually unmarked" and this echoes Phillips' statements. Yet > illustrations in both Nat. Geogr. and Sibley Guide seem to show the > opposite. > > Am I missing something? > > Cheers, Ian M. > > Ian McLaren > Biology Department > Dalhousie University > Halifax, NS Canada B3H 4J1 > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Long-billed thrasher photos From: Jerry Oldenettel <Borealowl AT AOL.COM> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:11:05 EDT I've posted images of the Long-billed Thrasher found at Crossroads in Lea Co, NM, (NM's 4th) on my photo site at http://www.flickr.com/photos/jroldenettel. Look at the photostream or in the "Spring 2008 Documentary Photos" set Jerry R. Oldenettel Socorro, NM ************** Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: LBBG's in the Americas From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:05:22 +0200 Can anyone help me get a digital version of: Post, Peter W., & Robert H. Lewis. 1995. The Lesser Black-backed Gull in the Americas: Occurrence and Subspecific Identity. Birding 27:282-290; 370-380. Thanks in advance, Norman Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: FW: [alertaves] Sterna elegans en Prov de Bs As: primero registro para Argentina From: Daniel PHILIPPE <laurette.daniel AT ORANGE.FR> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:28:03 +0200 Hi Laurent, This is fascinating ... If this bird is a "Southern" Cayenne Tern, with such a large, long and bicolored bill, flat gonydeal angle and a strongly decurved upper mandibule, blackish-red legs and a long shaggy crest (down to the shoulders), isn't it a geographical variation that deserves subspecific status recognition ? Or is it just clinal ? I haven't seen many illustrations/photos of those yet. ??? Daniel -----Message d'origine----- De : NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] De la part de Laurent Raty Envoyé : mardi 22 avril 2008 19:13 À : BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] FW: [alertaves] Sterna elegans en Prov de Bs As: primero registro para Argentina Hi Al (and all), > Not an id issue here, but it has a potential to be one. A few days > ago Juan Mazar Barnett and James Lowen found an Elegant Tern in > Buenos Aires province, Argentina (on the Atlantic ). After this > report a fellow sent a photo of another one he had photographed in > Buenos Aires Province last April. Mark Pearman today went to twitch > the Elegant (these are the first records for Argentina ) and found > 4!!! At the same site. So we suddenly have a “bunch” of Elegant Terns > at the same site on the Atlantic , and very soon these birds are > going to go north. I would look hard in concentrations of terns this > summer for Elegant type birds in the Eastern US...or even Europe . (Sorry, I had somehow overlooked this up to now, hence the very late reply.) I think we do have a definite ID issue here. The pics I have seen all show only the first bird: http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=108111 http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery28 http://www.pbase.com/james_lowen/image/93707385 http://www.pbase.com/james_lowen/image/93707387 http://www.pbase.com/james_lowen/image/93707388 http://www.pbase.com/james_lowen/image/93707390 ...so this is the only one about which I can write something meaningful. This bird certainly looks very much like what I would expect of an Elegant Tern in, say, August or September. But in late February...? The bird's head seems mostly black (with black extending down to bill base on the forehead - this is not a winter-plumaged head), and some white creeping out above the eye and on the lores, "pepper-and-salt" fashion. The outer hand (p6-10) is decidedly worn; there is a molt limit between p5 and p6 but no active molt there; p1(-2?) are in the process of being replaced. The tail is clearly in active molt as well, with inner feathers new, outer feathers still old, and intermediate lacking. This is fully consistent with a bird starting a post-breeding complete molt. Head is going out of summer plumage. The 5 outer primaries are almost one-year-old; p3-5 have been replaced during the previous partial pre-breeding molt; the complete wing replacement is starting in the inner hand. Tail feathers are replaced only during complete molts. This is a late summer bird, not a late winter bird - a bird on a southern hemisphere schedule. This is also exactly the state of plumage I would expect at this time of the year for a Cayenne from the southernmost populations. These are the longest-billed among Cayennes, and they can certainly also have a bill with this type of Elegant-like color pattern. What makes this something else? Cheers, Laurent - -- Laurent Raty l.raty AT skynet.be Brussels, Belgium Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Carrier-Homing Pigeon for ID Please From: Anand Arya <anandarya01 AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:02:57 +0530 First I hope I am correct in assuming this is a Carrier/Homing Pigeon. I assume so based on the thread which is somehow attached to the Pigeon and also holds something (paper) rolled tightly. This is quite visible on the bird. Here is the link for image: http://groups.google.co.in/group/birdphotoindia/attach/be45597296f4a7d7/Pigeon+for+ID+-+OBP+-+2008.04.23+(_E5J4793).jpg?hl=en&part=4&view=1 This bird was found sitting on a burnt out root of a small bush at the Okhla Bird Park, South-east of Delhi, India (coordinates for OBP being: N 28°32'43.5" Latitude and E 77°18'41.7" Longitude on Delhi Side and N 28°32'56.3" Latitude E 77°18'56.6" Longitude on the Okhla, U.P. Side - the bird found on UP side) It looked scared and did not move for almost 20 minutes of so I spent in that area. Searching Internet, threw quite a few options - the most important being the number of breeds available. Every letter of alphabet has quite a few names begining with it except for Z which has only one name. May be somebody can Id it for me. Regards, Anand Arya ANAND ARYA ASSOCIATES STRATEGIC TURN-AROUND MANAGEMENT GROUP 353, SECTOR 15-A NOIDA 201301 INDIA + 91 98182 61909 www.anandarya.com www.okhlabirdpark.com Canon 1DsM2 + 500mm + 1.4x TC + Gitzo + Wimberley Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: FW: [alertaves] Sterna elegans en Prov de Bs As: primero registro para Argentina From: Laurent Raty <l.raty AT SKYNET.BE> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:13:03 +0200 Hi Al (and all), > Not an id issue here, but it has a potential to be one. A few days > ago Juan Mazar Barnett and James Lowen found an Elegant Tern in > Buenos Aires province, Argentina (on the Atlantic ). After this > report a fellow sent a photo of another one he had photographed in > Buenos Aires Province last April. Mark Pearman today went to twitch > the Elegant (these are the first records for Argentina ) and found > 4!!! At the same site. So we suddenly have a “bunch” of Elegant Terns > at the same site on the Atlantic , and very soon these birds are > going to go north. I would look hard in concentrations of terns this > summer for Elegant type birds in the Eastern US...or even Europe . (Sorry, I had somehow overlooked this up to now, hence the very late reply.) I think we do have a definite ID issue here. The pics I have seen all show only the first bird: http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=108111 http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery28 http://www.pbase.com/james_lowen/image/93707385 http://www.pbase.com/james_lowen/image/93707387 http://www.pbase.com/james_lowen/image/93707388 http://www.pbase.com/james_lowen/image/93707390 ...so this is the only one about which I can write something meaningful. This bird certainly looks very much like what I would expect of an Elegant Tern in, say, August or September. But in late February...? The bird's head seems mostly black (with black extending down to bill base on the forehead - this is not a winter-plumaged head), and some white creeping out above the eye and on the lores, "pepper-and-salt" fashion. The outer hand (p6-10) is decidedly worn; there is a molt limit between p5 and p6 but no active molt there; p1(-2?) are in the process of being replaced. The tail is clearly in active molt as well, with inner feathers new, outer feathers still old, and intermediate lacking. This is fully consistent with a bird starting a post-breeding complete molt. Head is going out of summer plumage. The 5 outer primaries are almost one-year-old; p3-5 have been replaced during the previous partial pre-breeding molt; the complete wing replacement is starting in the inner hand. Tail feathers are replaced only during complete molts. This is a late summer bird, not a late winter bird - a bird on a southern hemisphere schedule. This is also exactly the state of plumage I would expect at this time of the year for a Cayenne from the southernmost populations. These are the longest-billed among Cayennes, and they can certainly also have a bill with this type of Elegant-like color pattern. What makes this something else? Cheers, Laurent - -- Laurent Raty l.raty AT skynet.be Brussels, Belgium Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Little Egrets, Snowies and spoonbill. From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:59:34 -0700 There has been at least one direct observation of mating between Little and Snowy Egrets in Barbados. I quote from the Southeastern Caribbean Bird Alert 1999-15 (which I wrote): "During five years of observing the breeding LITTLE and SNOWY EGRETS at Graeme Hall Swamp, there was no evidence of mixed pairs until a LITTLE EGRET was seen courting with and then copulating with a SNOWY EGRET on a nest in early April; the same SNOWY EGRET was then seen copulating with a male SNOWY EGRET!" I'm not sure whether it was observed by Martin Frost or Eddie Massiah (the two local Bajan birders) or Mark Gawn, a Canadian birder who was living there at the time. Floyd Hayes Hidden Valley Lake, CA ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Little Egrets, Snowies and spoonbill. From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao AT COASTSIDE.NET> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:10:50 -0700 Folks I am just back from my fourth and very successful tour of the Lesser Antilles. Among the many amazing birds seen we followed up on a sighting of a Roseate Spoonbill in St. Lucia and surprisingly realized that the bird was a Eurasian Spoonbill!! So if you twitch AOU rarities, send me a note and I can tell you where it is! This is the 2nd or third record for the New World I think. The Snowy and Little egret situation has grown more difficult for me, the more I look. Up until this year, it seemed really easy, but a couple of things changed. One was that we visited Barbados this time. There we saw plenty of Little Egrets. The other situation was that in Antigua where I have seen them before, this year there were more than ever (at least 7) and one seen at an egret breeding colony. So they are likely breeding in Antigua as well as Barbados. Our tour was a little earlier this year, and we noted that basically all the Little Egrets in Antigua had yellow lores. This is not too troubling as it is expected during the height of the breeding period. What was troubling was seeing 2-3 different birds which had a plume pattern intermediate between Little and Snowy; they had longer plumes but mixed with shorter “fuzzier” ones. The long plumes were not two single, discrete plumes, but shaggier looking long plumes. It suggests that at least in Antigua there is some hybridization; as it may be a new breeding locality perhaps this is not unusual or unexpected. In Barbados they apparently do not interbreed, and that breeding colony is well watched. My questions are: 1) Can Snowy Egrets ever show long plumes mixed in with their shaggier crown plumes. 2) Are there any confirmed records of Snowy x Little hybrids? 3) Would folks who see Little Egrets in the Old world be uncomfortable with yellow lores at this time of year, on birds with well formed double plumes? Photos to follow later once I get myself organized. Regards Alvaro Alvaro Jaramillo HYPERLINK "mailto:chucao AT coastside.net"chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide HYPERLINK "http://www.fieldguides.com"www.fieldguides.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1389 - Release Date: 4/21/2008 8:34 AM Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Matsudaira's Storm-Petrel From: DJ Lauten and KACastelein <deweysage AT VERIZON.NET> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:32:54 -0700 Hi folks, If you want to see the storm petrel photos, they are at: http://oceanwanderersnews.blogspot.com/2008/04/storm-petrel-identification.html Thanks Angus! Cheers Dave Lauten Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Oiled Willet ID? From: "Kevin T. Karlson" <karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:30:04 -0400 Everyone: I wanted to share this recent letter sent to me by Magill Weber concerning the E. Willet from Texas. It has an enlarged photo that shows that the bird is not oiled, but overloaded with black coloration to its plumage. I have never seen anything like this with Eastern Willet in the thousands of individuals that I have consciously studied over the last ten years, so I will leave this one up to the scientists to work out. Kevin Karlson Magill, You are right. It is not an oiled bird, but one that has an abundance of black coloration to its plumage. I am not sure what caused this overload of black coloration, and why it was distributed to the neck region, but it is clearly a bird that has a bunch of black coloration where it does not belong (including the head, face and flanks). Everything else is perfect for E. Willet, so I will not stretch for a hybrid explanation, especially since there are no shorebirds that nest anywhere near E. Willet's range that would contribute to this aberrant coloration, especially Arctic breeding birds like Ruff and Spotted Redshank. This is not a common occurrence in shorebirds, as I have seen literally thousands of Eastern Willets from the High Island to Galveston area of the upper Texas Coast. Kevin _____ From: Magill Weber [mailto:magill_weber AT hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:15 PM To: Kevin T. Karlson Subject: Oiled Willet ID? Kevin, Definitely appreciate your response on the Willet ID, and totally agree with your assessment that except for the black, its an eastern race Willet. I've gotten lots of back-channels suggesting everything from hybrids (Redshank, Ruff) to various godwits (I guess because of the redish tinge on the bill, which I think is a halo effect from the poor light conditions), but I can't see anything that is inconsistent with typical Willet. But wanted to follow up a bit more, esp. since I used your guide as a primary resource in an attempt to figure this beast out. I'm attaching the link to the extra-large blow up of the pic. http://badger.smugmug.com/gallery/4745270_mQinj#281142357_GEjne-X3-LB As I mentioned in my original post, when we first saw the bird, we were calling it the 'dirty Willet', assuming that it got into oil. But the totally clean underside--I just can't figure out why that would be the case. Check out the super enlargement--its not entirely consistent with oil, at least in my experience--it looks too streaky, not 'stained'--like its actually a plumage abberation. But have no idea how a hyperpigmentation would look. Just wanted to get your take on it, enlarged a bit bigger. This bird is giving me total headaches, but figured I'd ask you to take a look one last time. Thanks much! Magill Weber _____ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:32:13 -0400 From: karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Willet ID To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Magill and others, This is clearly a breeding Eastern Willet of the Gulf Coast form, which tends to be a bit paler and longer billed than the Atlantic Coast Eastern Willets. After studying these Eastern Willets in the High Island/Galveston area for the past seven years in March or April, I have found them to be generally less heavily marked on the breast and back than the Atlantic E. Willets that breed near my house in southern NJ. They also tend to have longer bills overall, and often approach smaller Western Willets in bill length and shape. This bird is either oiled on the neck, or marked with another extraneous dye, which is not out of the question, considering the oil fields that ring Anahuac NWR. Both willets feed and bathe in the fresh water pools that are associated with the oil fields, although I must admit that the coloration looks fairly restricted to the upper breast and neck, and the bird would be hard pressed to only get a stain in that area. I often bird the oil fields near High Island, and have never seen an oiled Eastern Willet there. Maybe it is an aberration in color or pigment in these areas, but either way, it is a typical Eastern Willet. Kevin Karlson _____ From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Magill Weber Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 7:52 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDWG01] Willet ID Curious to hear any comments on this shorebird, photographed several days ago near Anhuac NWR, Texas. I observed the bird in poor early evening light in a mixed flock of Willets, Whimbrel, and Marbled Godwits, and as the flock flushed. Roughly Willet sized and shaped, bill consistent with Willet, no good looks at underwings of this individual (blending in with a eastern race Willet dominated flock). Our initial impression was that the bird had gotten into some oil, but in looking at the dark patterning in the photo, crisp facial appearance, and dark under the wings but showing a clean underside, this would be an unlikely result. The bird was relocated and photographed the next day (see single photo), but I have no additional information from that observation, except that it again flushed quickly. (Classic example of shooting photos first, and getting lazy with field notes, particularly around skittish flocks. I'll be the first to take the blame for that one.) Note the oddly dark 'ring' around the neck and back (shown in the photograph) and dark legs. Unfortunately this is the best photo my group has put their hands on, thus far. I'd appreciate any comments or other observations of this type of molt patterning or dark-necked appearance. Could this just be an oiled bird? Any other explanation? http://badger.smugmug.com/gallery/4745270_mQinj#281142357_GEjne Thanks, Magill Weber, Phoenix, AZ _____ More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger. Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html _____ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started! Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Willet ID From: Brendan Fogarty <birderbf AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:31:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Willet ID From: "Kevin T. Karlson" <karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:32:13 -0400 Magill and others, This is clearly a breeding Eastern Willet of the Gulf Coast form, which tends to be a bit paler and longer billed than the Atlantic Coast Eastern Willets. After studying these Eastern Willets in the High Island/Galveston area for the past seven years in March or April, I have found them to be generally less heavily marked on the breast and back than the Atlantic E. Willets that breed near my house in southern NJ. They also tend to have longer bills overall, and often approach smaller Western Willets in bill length and shape. This bird is either oiled on the neck, or marked with another extraneous dye, which is not out of the question, considering the oil fields that ring Anahuac NWR. Both willets feed and bathe in the fresh water pools that are associated with the oil fields, although I must admit that the coloration looks fairly restricted to the upper breast and neck, and the bird would be hard pressed to only get a stain in that area. I often bird the oil fields near High Island, and have never seen an oiled Eastern Willet there. Maybe it is an aberration in color or pigment in these areas, but either way, it is a typical Eastern Willet. Kevin Karlson _____ From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Magill Weber Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 7:52 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDWG01] Willet ID Curious to hear any comments on this shorebird, photographed several days ago near Anhuac NWR, Texas. I observed the bird in poor early evening light in a mixed flock of Willets, Whimbrel, and Marbled Godwits, and as the flock flushed. Roughly Willet sized and shaped, bill consistent with Willet, no good looks at underwings of this individual (blending in with a eastern race Willet dominated flock). Our initial impression was that the bird had gotten into some oil, but in looking at the dark patterning in the photo, crisp facial appearance, and dark under the wings but showing a clean underside, this would be an unlikely result. The bird was relocated and photographed the next day (see single photo), but I have no additional information from that observation, except that it again flushed quickly. (Classic example of shooting photos first, and getting lazy with field notes, particularly around skittish flocks. I'll be the first to take the blame for that one.) Note the oddly dark 'ring' around the neck and back (shown in the photograph) and dark legs. Unfortunately this is the best photo my group has put their hands on, thus far. I'd appreciate any comments or other observations of this type of molt patterning or dark-necked appearance. Could this just be an oiled bird? Any other explanation? http://badger.smugmug.com/gallery/4745270_mQinj#281142357_GEjne Thanks, Magill Weber, Phoenix, AZ _____ More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger. Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Matsudaira's Storm Petrel From: DJ Lauten and KACastelein <deweysage AT VERIZON.NET> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:10:37 -0700 Hello Folks, A marine biologist and non-birding friend of ours is on the R/V Melville off of Guam somewhere. He sent me three photos of a storm petrel, asking me what it was. I am no seabird expert, but from the photos I believe the bird is a Matsudaira's Storm-Petrel (Oceanodroma matsudairae). I don't have a web page to post these photos too. I'm wondering if anyone might like to post or look at the photos, and whether or not anyone knows if this species is common or not in the area, or whether the info and location of the birds is of any interest to anyone. Thanks all Cheers Dave Lauten Bandon OR deweysage AT verizon.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Willet ID From: Magill Weber <magill_weber AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 23:52:06 +0000 Curious to hear any comments on this shorebird, photographed several days ago near Anhuac NWR, Texas. I observed the bird in poor early evening light in a mixed flock of Willets, Whimbrel, and Marbled Godwits, and as the flock flushed. Roughly Willet sized and shaped, bill consistent with Willet, no good looks at underwings of this individual (blending in with a eastern race Willet dominated flock). Our initial impression was that the bird had gotten into some oil, but in looking at the dark patterning in the photo, crisp facial appearance, and dark under the wings but showing a clean underside, this would be an unlikely result. The bird was relocated and photographed the next day (see single photo), but I have no additional information from that observation, except that it again flushed quickly. (Classic example of shooting photos first, and getting lazy with field notes, particularly around skittish flocks. I'll be the first to take the blame for that one.) Note the oddly dark 'ring' around the neck and back (shown in the photograph) and dark legs. Unfortunately this is the best photo my group has put their hands on, thus far. I'd appreciate any comments or other observations of this type of molt patterning or dark-necked appearance. Could this just be an oiled bird? Any other explanation? http://badger.smugmug.com/gallery/4745270_mQinj#281142357_GEjne Thanks, Magill Weber, Phoenix, AZ _________________________________________________________________ More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: House Wren subspecies From: "Ian A. McLaren" <I.A.McLaren AT DAL.CA> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:33:21 -0300 All: I'm confused (not infrequent). Pyle gives "western" subspecies _parkmanii_ as "back feathers usually with dusky barring" and "eastern" _aedon_ as "back feathers usually unmarked" and this echoes Phillips' statements. Yet illustrations in both Nat. Geogr. and Sibley Guide seem to show the opposite. Am I missing something? Cheers, Ian M. Ian McLaren Biology Department Dalhousie University Halifax, NS Canada B3H 4J1 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html