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1 Sep Juv. Sharp-tailed Sandpiper Sept. 5, 1999, South Beach, MA [Jim Barton ] 1 Sep Sharp-tailed data from Maui [Jerry Oldenettel ] 1 Sep American Goldfinch and plumage [DJ Lauten and KACastelein ] 1 Sep Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required [David Sibley ] 31 Aug Ironic: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper [DJ Lauten and KACastelein ] 31 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [John Sterling ] 31 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [John Sterling ] 31 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [Steven Mlodinow ] 30 Aug sanderling inland in S. America [John Sterling ] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [Jeff Gilligan ] 30 Aug Fwd: Juv Sharp-tailed Sand occurrence [was Gambell: miscellaneous miscellanea} [] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [Matt Brady ] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [DJ Lauten and KACastelein ] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper -- late occurrences [Dick Cannings ] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [Hal Opperman ] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [] 30 Aug Sharp-tailed Sandpiper -- late occurrences [Alan Wormington ] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [Adam Sabatine ] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [Kevin Karlson ] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [Wayne Weber ] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [Alan Wormington ] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [Robert Lewis ] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info ["Sean E. McAllister" ] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [Phil Jeffrey ] 30 Aug Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info ["Lethaby, Nick" ] 30 Aug Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info [DJ Lauten and KACastelein ] 30 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question [Alan Kneidel ] 30 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question ["Arne J. Lesterhuis" ] 30 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question [Floyd Hayes ] 30 Aug Melanistic Shorebirds? [] 30 Aug Nazca/Masked Booby from San Diego, CA [Jay K ] 28 Aug Bolivia Sanderling ["Pratt, Doug" ] 28 Aug Red-footed Booby in Spain [ ] 27 Aug Listowner message - Bolivian shorebird [Will Russell ] 28 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird [Pim Wolf ] 28 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird [] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question [Matt Brady ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question [Alvaro Jaramillo ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird [] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question [Jay K ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird ["Lethaby, Nick" ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question [Erik Johnson ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird [julian hough ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question [Peter Pyle ] 27 Aug Re: Western or White-rumped Sandpiper - photos [Kevin Karlson ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question [] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird [] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question [Kevin Karlson ] 27 Aug Short-tailed Shearwaters in the Atlantic ["Lethaby, Nick" ] 27 Aug Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required [] 27 Aug Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required [Joseph Morlan ] 27 Aug Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required [Bruce H Anderson ] 27 Aug Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required [Andrew Kratter ] 27 Aug Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required [Steven Mlodinow ] 27 Aug Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required [Alvaro Jaramillo ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird ["Kevin J. McGowan" ] 27 Aug Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required ["Lethaby, Nick" ] 27 Aug SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required [Lee G R Evans ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird [DJ Lauten and KACastelein ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird ["Lethaby, Nick" ] 27 Aug Re: Unusual Rosy-Finch [Jacob Spendelow ] 27 Aug Re: Bolivian shorebird [julian hough ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird [Steven Mlodinow ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird [ ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird [Peter Adriaens ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question [Phil Jeffrey ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird - correction [] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird - correction [ ] 27 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird [] 27 Aug Re: Bolivian shorebird [Mike O'Keeffe ] 26 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird - correction [DJ Lauten and KACastelein ] 26 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird - correction [DJ Lauten and KACastelein ] 26 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird - correction [Alvaro Jaramillo ] 26 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird - correction [Peter Adriaens ] 26 Aug Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question [Peter Adriaens ] 26 Aug Re: Bolivian shorebird [Christopher Wood ] Subject: Juv. Sharp-tailed Sandpiper Sept. 5, 1999, South Beach, MA From: Jim Barton <redwingatfp1986 AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 18:02:01 -0400 Hello. I studied a stunning juvenile Sharp-tailed Sandpiper roosting among Black-bellied Plovers and Semi Plovers on a northerly flat at South Beach, Chatham, MA for about 10 minutes on September 5, 2009. All the birds flew south, so I saw the bird in flight as well. Continuing south myself, I encountered a birding group moving north. I described the bird and asked whether they might have seen the STSP. The leader responded that, oh, yes, they seen a shorebird that someone had died yellow. She seemed very sure of herself. I didn't think it worthwhile to continue the conversation. I alerted the usual suspects and returned the next day, but was unable to rediscover the bird. Yours, Jim Barton Jim Barton Cambridge, MA U.S. Coordinator - Proact defending birds and their habitats before it's too late www.proact-campaigns.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Sharp-tailed data from Maui From: Jerry Oldenettel <Borealowl AT AOL.COM> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 15:58:33 EDT I spent 4 falls on Maui from 1990-1993. In general, Pectoral arrival dates preceeded those of Sharp-tailed by about a month as follows: 1990 Pectoral - 9/30, Sharp-tials -10/31. 1991 Pectoral - 8/31, Sharp-tails - 9/28 (1) building to 110 birds on 10/13 1992 Pectoral - na, Sharp-tails - 10/25 1993 Pectoral - 9/12, Sharp-tails - 10/9 My early date was a single juvenile plumaged bird on 9/28/91 with a flock of Pecs. Jerry R. Oldenettel Socorro, NM Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: American Goldfinch and plumage From: DJ Lauten and KACastelein <deweysage AT VERIZON.NET> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 11:18:49 -0700 Folks, Getting away from shorebirds, someone posted this link http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephen_parsons/4948269249/ and said the following: "I am noticing more leucistic American Goldfinches at the feeder this year. Sometimes as many as four at the feeder simultaneously. The cooler, wetter weather has increased activity quite a bit. " I don't think this is leucism or partial leucism. First, it would be amazing for someone to have multiple leucistic birds at their feeder, being that leucism is fairly rare. But the black plumage is all normal, and it seems to me that this bird is more likely being affected by some deficiency, or disease, or mites, or maybe just normal heavy molt. Thoughts? Cheers Dave Lauten Bandon OR deweysage AT verizon.ne Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required From: David Sibley <david_sibley AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 09:57:23 -0400 Lee et al., I was just catching up on reading these messages, and the question of Short-tailed Shearwaters in the Atlantic prompted me to finish a blog post I had started over a year ago, which is now up at my website here http://www.sibleyguides.com/2010/09/birding-and-a-warming-arctic/ The gist of it is that with greatly reduced arctic sea ice in the last few years it is now possible for Short-tailed Shearwaters and other species to range much farther north above Alaska and Siberia, and even to have a clear path all around the Arctic Ocean and into the Atlantic. I haven't seen any other mention of this possibility, so I thought it was worth adding to the discussion. On the identification of Short-tailed Shearwater, I agree with others that this is extremely difficult and for any reports in the Atlantic I would hope for very close and prolonged views and direct comparisons to Sooty Shearwater. David Sibley Concord, MA sibleyart AT yahoo.com On Aug 27, 2010, at 11:14 AM, Lee G R Evans wrote: > There has been a wave of SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER (Puffinus > tenuirostris) claims in Britain just recently and I would like to > know if there are any confirmed records of this species in the North > Atlantic at all, particularly along the Eastern Seaboard. It seems a > very unlikely vagrant to me. > > NORMAL DISTRIBUTION > > After breeding, Short-tailed Shearwaters migrate to the north > Pacific Ocean where they winter in huge numbers off of the Aleutian > Islands, with much smaller numbers in the Bering Sea and Gulf of > Alaska. The Alaskan birds depart in September moving south to the > Californian coast during October to February. > > Best wishes > > > Lee G R Evans > British Birding Association > UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and > Conservationist > > Keep up with Lee's daily exploits on his DIARY PAGE at http://thebirdingdiariesofleeevans.blogspot.com/ > > Discussion Forum/Email Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/ > > Rare Bird Alerts: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/ > http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/ > > Email Address: LGREUK400 AT aol.com > Website Address: www.uk400clubonline.co.uk > Related Blog Sites: http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/ http://rarebirdsinthewesternpalearctic.blogspot.com/http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/ > http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/ > http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/ > http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/ > http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/ > http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/ > > Chaffinch House > 8 Sandycroft Road > Little Chalfont > Amersham > Buckinghamshire > England > HP6 6QL > > Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157 > Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629 > > (Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird > occurrences in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western > Palearctic and in North America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird > Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and other related publications; Bird > Tours for Birders) > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Ironic: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper From: DJ Lauten and KACastelein <deweysage AT VERIZON.NET> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:36:23 -0700 Well, here is a bit of irony for us. My partner Kathy Castelein just called from Bandon Marsh NWR Bandon Coos Cty Oregon where she is watching a juvenile Sharp-tailed Sandpiper! This is not the reason I asked yesterday about dates for this species - that inquiry had to do with a potential report from Bend OR on 27 August. Kathy went to run a weekly survey at the marsh, saw a bright colored interesting shorebird, veered off her survey route to investigate, and called to tell me she is looking at Sharp-tailed. Cheers Dave Lauten and Kathy Castelein Bandon OR deweysage AT verizon.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: John Sterling <jsterling AT WAVECABLE.COM> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 10:47:56 -0700 Turns out that I was off in my last email. There are other records from CA of adults after the CBRC stopped reviewing the species with a date range of 21 July to 8 October. The range for juveniles is given as 2 Sept to 5 Jan. thanks Matt Brady for alerting me.. John Sterling VVVVVVVVVV 26 Palm Ave Woodland, CA 95695 cell 530 908-3836 jsterling AT wavecable.com Birding Classes, photos etc www.sterlingbirds.com From: John Sterling [mailto:jsterling AT wavecable.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 9:58 AM To: 'BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU' Subject: RE: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info In California we get juveniles in October-November, with few reports in September (many of which prove to be bright Pectorals). However, last fall in late August we had an adult in the same field as the juvenile Red-necked Stint in the Central Valley. That is the only fall adult for CA that I am aware of, and as such, arrived much earlier than the juveniles. John Sterling VVVVVVVVVV 26 Palm Ave Woodland, CA 95695 cell 530 908-3836 jsterling AT wavecable.com Birding Classes, photos etc www.sterlingbirds.com From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steven Mlodinow Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 6:47 AM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info Greetings All Jeff is quite right. In WA, we have had (during last couple years) a few very bright juv Pecs in Aug identified as ST Sands, but also photographed, so correct ID could be made. Looking through what I have for WA, there are a few records from the first week of Sep, but I believe no August records of juvs. Best Wishes Steve Mlodinow -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Gilligan To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Mon, Aug 30, 2010 6:56 pm Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info August 27 would be exceptionally early. There are quite bright juv. Pectorals now in the state. I am not saying its impossible, but care should be taken. Jeff Gilligan Portland, oregon On 8/30/10 11:04 AM, "DJ Lauten and KACastelein" wrote: > Folks, > > I received a question from someone here in Oregon and am looking for a > few responses. The gist of the question is when do Sharp-tailed > Sandpipers start to show up in fall migration? Our earliest date here > on the southwest coast of OR is 15 Sept. Apparently a possible bird was > sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether that > date is too early for this species. Anyone have any insight or thoughts? > > Cheers > Dave Lauten > Bandon OR > deweysage AT verizon.net > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: John Sterling <jsterling AT WAVECABLE.COM> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:57:40 -0700 In California we get juveniles in October-November, with few reports in September (many of which prove to be bright Pectorals). However, last fall in late August we had an adult in the same field as the juvenile Red-necked Stint in the Central Valley. That is the only fall adult for CA that I am aware of, and as such, arrived much earlier than the juveniles. John Sterling VVVVVVVVVV 26 Palm Ave Woodland, CA 95695 cell 530 908-3836 jsterling AT wavecable.com Birding Classes, photos etc www.sterlingbirds.com From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steven Mlodinow Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 6:47 AM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info Greetings All Jeff is quite right. In WA, we have had (during last couple years) a few very bright juv Pecs in Aug identified as ST Sands, but also photographed, so correct ID could be made. Looking through what I have for WA, there are a few records from the first week of Sep, but I believe no August records of juvs. Best Wishes Steve Mlodinow -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Gilligan To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Mon, Aug 30, 2010 6:56 pm Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info August 27 would be exceptionally early. There are quite bright juv. Pectorals now in the state. I am not saying its impossible, but care should be taken. Jeff Gilligan Portland, oregon On 8/30/10 11:04 AM, "DJ Lauten and KACastelein" wrote: > Folks, > > I received a question from someone here in Oregon and am looking for a > few responses. The gist of the question is when do Sharp-tailed > Sandpipers start to show up in fall migration? Our earliest date here > on the southwest coast of OR is 15 Sept. Apparently a possible bird was > sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether that > date is too early for this species. Anyone have any insight or thoughts? > > Cheers > Dave Lauten > Bandon OR > deweysage AT verizon.net > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: Steven Mlodinow <sgmlod AT AOL.COM> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:47:15 -0400 Greetings All Jeff is quite right. In WA, we have had (during last couple years) a few very bright juv Pecs in Aug identified as ST Sands, but also photographed, so correct ID could be made. Looking through what I have for WA, there are a few records from the first week of Sep, but I believe no August records of juvs. Best Wishes Steve Mlodinow -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Gilligan To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Mon, Aug 30, 2010 6:56 pm Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info August 27 would be exceptionally early. There are quite bright juv. Pectorals now in the state. I am not saying its impossible, but care should be taken. Jeff Gilligan Portland, oregon On 8/30/10 11:04 AM, "DJ Lauten and KACastelein" wrote: > Folks, > > I received a question from someone here in Oregon and am looking for a > few responses. The gist of the question is when do Sharp-tailed > Sandpipers start to show up in fall migration? Our earliest date here > on the southwest coast of OR is 15 Sept. Apparently a possible bird was > sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether that > date is too early for this species. Anyone have any insight or thoughts? > > Cheers > Dave Lauten > Bandon OR > deweysage AT verizon.net > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: sanderling inland in S. America From: John Sterling <jsterling AT WAVECABLE.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:10:35 -0700 Just rejoined the group and saw the discussion on the Bolivian Sanderling in the archives for today. Just wanted to add that I've seen a few migrant Sanderlings on river sandbars western Amazonia in se Peru and if I recall correctly also in Ecuador. John Sterling VVVVVVVVVV 26 Palm Ave Woodland, CA 95695 cell 530 908-3836 jsterling AT wavecable.com Birding Classes, photos etc www.sterlingbirds.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: Jeff Gilligan <jeffgill AT TELEPORT.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:56:55 -0700 August 27 would be exceptionally early. There are quite bright juv. Pectorals now in the state. I am not saying its impossible, but care should be taken. Jeff Gilligan Portland, oregon On 8/30/10 11:04 AM, "DJ Lauten and KACastelein" wrote: > Folks, > > I received a question from someone here in Oregon and am looking for a > few responses. The gist of the question is when do Sharp-tailed > Sandpipers start to show up in fall migration? Our earliest date here > on the southwest coast of OR is 15 Sept. Apparently a possible bird was > sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether that > date is too early for this species. Anyone have any insight or thoughts? > > Cheers > Dave Lauten > Bandon OR > deweysage AT verizon.net > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Fwd: Juv Sharp-tailed Sand occurrence [was Gambell: miscellaneous miscellanea} From: greatgrayowl AT AOL.COM Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:45:45 -0400 All: By coincidence, Paul Lehman just sent the below to a bunch of his correspondents. Since part of it's germane and timely to the current discussion, I felt that forwarding it would be the cat's pajamas. Tony Leukering Villas, NJ -----Original Message----- From: Paul Lehman To: lehman.paul AT verizon.net Cc: barbarac2003 AT yahoo.com; Laurie Larson ; Richard Crossley ; greatgrayowl AT aol.com; akbirder AT eagle.ptialaska.net; alaskabirds AT ak.net; davidsonne AT aol.com; kingbird77 AT hotmail.com; columbarius33 AT yahoo.com; tgtljo AT gci.net; cerwa AT earthlink.net; ghrosenberg AT comcast.net; swallowtailstudio AT comcast.net; mtheindel AT aol.com; miliff AT aol.com; guymcc AT pacbell.net; sgmlod AT aol.com; bandmac AT gci.net; donacoates AT aol.com; g_g_allin AT hotmail.com; marleen.murgitroyde AT njaudubon.org; George Armistead ; lrbevier AT colby.edu; joanlentz AT cox.net; Ned Brinkley ; steve_heinl AT fishgame.state.ak.us; pdavis AT ix.netcom.com; jrhough1 AT snet.net; David MacKay ; schwit AT 3rivers.net; bob AT wildernessbirding.com; jcwilson AT lightspeed.net; markgarland AT mac.com; akbirding AT yahoogroups.com; hilone AT hilonesometours.com; Nick Pulcinella ; jjsykes AT charter.net; Oscar Johnson ; Jeremiah Trimble ; Don Freiday Sent: Mon, Aug 30, 2010 4:58 pm Subject: Gambell: miscellaneous miscellanea Best bird at Gambell the past few days has been the juvenile CHIPPING SPARROW on 8/28 (yes, I know you are all thrilled!), a species which breeds no closer than east-central or southeast AK but which has now occurred here a surprising 19 times in fall. Also a rare-but-regular White-crowned Sparrow today. The first several Sharp-tailed Sandpipers (all juveniles, as is typical) of the season started appearing on 8/28. Today there were also 24 Emperor Geese, Steller's Eider, a couple Eurasian Wigeon. On both 8/27 and 8/28 we estimated a MILLION Crested Auklets passing the point. Another good count was the 51+ N. Wheatears on 8/27, the first Red-throated Pipit in almost a week turned up yesterday, a couple more japonicus American Pipits, a bunch more Arctic Warblers, and another Bluethroat. Up to 4 Ancient Murrelets continue daily right along the beach. The arrival of the first juvenile Black-legged Kittiwakes yesterday beat the all-time arrival date for that age-class by a whopping one day. Two days ago I saw a dark-morph N. Fulmar, a rare visitor from points south--the local fulmars are all light-morph birds. Short-tailed Shearwater numbers are picking up, with ca. 100,000 estimated yesterday. --Paul Lehman Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: Matt Brady <podoces AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:18:17 -0700 According the Rare Birds of California (Hamilton et al., 2007), California has records of adult Sharp-tailed Sandpipers from 21 July (1988, Goleta, Santa Barbara Co.) though 8 October (first date 29 Sept., 1992, San Joaquin Marsh, Orange Co.). Juveniles have appeared between 2 Sept (1996, SE Farallon Island) and 5 January (1986; first detected 17 Nov, 1985, at Alviso Santa Clara Co.). Alviso, Santa Clara Co has the three latest fall records: in addition to the one cited above, there have also been juvs from 16-20 Dec., 2001 and 7-18 Dec., 2005. The only Sharp-tailed Sandpiper that was known to winter was present 19 Jan to 2 Mar., 1980. There are also four spring records for the state, but that may be beyond the scope of this discussion. Matt Brady SE Farallon Island, SF Co., CA Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: DJ Lauten and KACastelein <deweysage AT VERIZON.NET> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:17:51 -0700 Thanks everyone, I must say that this must be the best bird network on the planet. You people rock.....or should I say fly? Cheers Dave Lauten Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper -- late occurrences From: Dick Cannings <dickcannings AT SHAW.CA> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:11:21 -0700 Hi Alan: There is a record of 2 individuals (specimens in the Royal BC Museum) on the Queen Charlotte Islands 27 Dec 1897. regards Dick Cannings Penticton, BC -------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Wormington" Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 3:12 PM To: Subject: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper -- late occurrences > There is also a record of a juvenile Sharp-tailed Sandpiper at Hamilton, > Ontario, on the dates of November 19 to December 5, 1975. > > Surely this must be the latest for the country, if not the latest. > > > Alan Wormington > Leamington, Ontario > > > > > > > On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:37:36 +0000 Kevin Karlson > writes: >> >> >> Dave, Kathy and all; >> >> NJ only has two confirmed records of Sharp-tailed Sandpipers, but >> one is a juvenile that occured� at the early dates of� September >> 3-5, 2003� at the Johnson Sod Farm in� Cumberland County� NJ >> (documented by photos). The other juvenile was on a more typical >> date of October 8, 2002� at Stone Harbor, which I was fortunate to >> photograph. These dates are not far from the date of August 27 that >> you mention. I also photographed a molting adult at Bombay Hook in >> Delaware on August 11, 1993. >> >> >> >> Kevin Karlson >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "DJ Lauten and KACastelein" >> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:04:38 PM >> Subject: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info >> >> � � Folks, >> >> I received a question from someone here in Oregon and am looking for >> a >> few responses. � The gist of the question is when do Sharp-tailed >> Sandpipers start to show up in fall migration? � Our earliest date >> here >> on the southwest coast of OR is 15 Sept. � Apparently a possible >> bird was >> sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether >> that >> date is too early for this species. � Anyone have any insight or >> thoughts? >> >> Cheers >> Dave Lauten >> Bandon OR >> deweysage AT verizon.net >> >> >> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: >> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 >> >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html >> >> >> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: >> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 >> >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html >> > > > > "The Early Worm Gets The Bird!" > > -- Alan Wormington > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: Hal Opperman <hal AT CATHARUS.NET> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:03:17 -0700 Dave and all: Steve Mlodinow's article on this species in Birding 33:330-341 (August 2001) lists 11 records of adults south of Alaska over the period 1967-1999, at first-detection dates ranging between 30 June and 20 August. The earliest unequivocal juvenile record he shows from the Lower 48 is from North Dakota on 25 August, although he has a much earlier one from near Regina, Saskatchewan, on 28 July. He does not list early dates for juveniles along the West Coast where they occur far more commonly (if not earlier). Kind of expecting Steve to chime in with an update.... Hal Opperman Medina, WA hal AT catharus.net On Aug 30, 2010, at 11:04 AM, DJ Lauten and KACastelein wrote: > Folks, > > I received a question from someone here in Oregon and am looking for a few responses. The gist of the question is when do Sharp-tailed Sandpipers start to show up in fall migration? Our earliest date here on the southwest coast of OR is 15 Sept. Apparently a possible bird was sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether that date is too early for this species. Anyone have any insight or thoughts? > > Cheers > Dave Lauten > Bandon OR > deweysage AT verizon.net > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: OLCOOT1 AT AOL.COM Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:17:26 EDT In a message dated 8/30/2010 1:24:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time, deweysage AT VERIZON.NET writes: Apparently a possible bird was sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether that date is too early for this species. Anyone have any insight or thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> How about a juvenile I found pretty early and pretty far south in the interior. September 12-19, 1992 , Memphis TN. Good Birding !!! Jeff R. Wilson / TLBA 6300 Memphis-Arlington Road Bartlett, TN 38135 http://www.pbase.com/ol_coot/ What is this feathered thing that lifts my heart to the heavens. Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper -- late occurrences From: Alan Wormington <wormington AT JUNO.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:12:35 -0400 There is also a record of a juvenile Sharp-tailed Sandpiper at Hamilton, Ontario, on the dates of November 19 to December 5, 1975. Surely this must be the latest for the country, if not the latest. Alan Wormington Leamington, Ontario On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:37:36 +0000 Kevin Karlson writes: > > > Dave, Kathy and all; > > NJ only has two confirmed records of Sharp-tailed Sandpipers, but > one is a juvenile that occured at the early dates of September > 3-5, 2003 at the Johnson Sod Farm in Cumberland County NJ > (documented by photos). The other juvenile was on a more typical > date of October 8, 2002 at Stone Harbor, which I was fortunate to > photograph. These dates are not far from the date of August 27 that > you mention. I also photographed a molting adult at Bombay Hook in > Delaware on August 11, 1993. > > > > Kevin Karlson > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DJ Lauten and KACastelein" > To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:04:38 PM > Subject: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info > >   Folks, > > I received a question from someone here in Oregon and am looking for > a > few responses.   The gist of the question is when do Sharp-tailed > Sandpipers start to show up in fall migration?  Our earliest date > here > on the southwest coast of OR is 15 Sept.  Apparently a possible > bird was > sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether > that > date is too early for this species.  Anyone have any insight or > thoughts? > > Cheers > Dave Lauten > Bandon OR > deweysage AT verizon.net > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > "The Early Worm Gets The Bird!" -- Alan Wormington Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: Adam Sabatine <birdman538 AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:03:23 -0400 Kevin and all, I seem to remember an unconfirmed November report from Brigantine a few years back. Jamaica Bay, NY also had one in 2008 I think. I have to check my notes, but our first Sharp-tailed, a juvenile, showed up on St. Paul Island (Pribilofs) during the first week of August in 2008. Bird on, Adam Sabatine Delaware Water Gap, Pennsylvania Birdman538 AT gmail.com Sent from my iPhone On Aug 30, 2010, at 5:37 PM, Kevin Karlson wrote: > Dave, Kathy and all; > > NJ only has two confirmed records of Sharp-tailed Sandpipers, but > one is a juvenile that occured at the early dates of September 3-5, > 2003 at the Johnson Sod Farm in Cumberland County NJ (documented by > photos). The other juvenile was on a more typical date of October 8, > 2002 at Stone Harbor, which I was fortunate to photograph. These > dates are not far from the date of August 27 that you mention. I > also photographed a molting adult at Bombay Hook in Delaware on > August 11, 1993. > > > > Kevin Karlson > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DJ Lauten and KACastelein" > To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:04:38 PM > Subject: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info > > Folks, > > I received a question from someone here in Oregon and am looking for a > few responses. The gist of the question is when do Sharp-tailed > Sandpipers start to show up in fall migration? Our earliest date here > on the southwest coast of OR is 15 Sept. Apparently a possible bird > was > sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether > that > date is too early for this species. Anyone have any insight or > thoughts? > > Cheers > Dave Lauten > Bandon OR > deweysage AT verizon.net > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: Kevin Karlson <karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:37:36 +0000 Dave, Kathy and all; NJ only has two confirmed records of Sharp-tailed Sandpipers, but one is a juvenile that occured at the early dates of September 3-5, 2003 at the Johnson Sod Farm in Cumberland County NJ (documented by photos). The other juvenile was on a more typical date of October 8, 2002 at Stone Harbor, which I was fortunate to photograph. These dates are not far from the date of August 27 that you mention. I also photographed a molting adult at Bombay Hook in Delaware on August 11, 1993. Kevin Karlson ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJ Lauten and KACastelein" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:04:38 PM Subject: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info   Folks, I received a question from someone here in Oregon and am looking for a few responses.   The gist of the question is when do Sharp-tailed Sandpipers start to show up in fall migration?  Our earliest date here on the southwest coast of OR is 15 Sept.  Apparently a possible bird was sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether that date is too early for this species.  Anyone have any insight or thoughts? Cheers Dave Lauten Bandon OR deweysage AT verizon.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: Wayne Weber <contopus AT TELUS.NET> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:29:34 -0700 Bird ID people, In southwestern British Columbia, the vast majority of Sharp-tailed sightings are between about September 7 and October 31, peaking in the first week of October. There are a very few records in the last week of August, and a scattering of records well into November. The timing of the fall passage is very similar to that of Pectoral Sandpipers. These dates apply to juveniles, which account for nearly 100% of our sightings. If adults showed up, which they almost never do, they could occur much earlier in the summer. Wayne C. Weber Delta, BC contopus AT telus.net -----Original Message----- From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of DJ Lauten and KACastelein Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 11:05 AM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info Folks, I received a question from someone here in Oregon and am looking for a few responses. The gist of the question is when do Sharp-tailed Sandpipers start to show up in fall migration? Our earliest date here on the southwest coast of OR is 15 Sept. Apparently a possible bird was sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether that date is too early for this species. Anyone have any insight or thoughts? Cheers Dave Lauten Bandon OR deweysage AT verizon.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: Alan Wormington <wormington AT JUNO.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:56:32 -0400 Point Pelee (Ontario) has a record of a post-alternate adult for August 20, 1988. The bird was at Hillman Marsh. Alan Wormington Leamington, Ontario On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:49:23 -0400 Robert Lewis writes: > The first record at Jamaica Bay, also an adult, was on July 18, 1981, > seen by Tom Davis and me. > > Bob Lewis > Sleepy Hollow NY > > > > On Aug 30, 2010, at 2:51 PM, Phil Jeffrey wrote: > > > An adult Sharp-tailed Sandpiper in alternate plumage was seen at > > Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge in NYC on August 3rd 2008, but this is > > probably an exceptional case and not an experience I anticipate > > repeating. > > > > Phil Jeffrey > > NJ > > > > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > "The Early Worm Gets The Bird!" -- Alan Wormington Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: Robert Lewis <lewis AT BWAY.NET> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:49:23 -0400 The first record at Jamaica Bay, also an adult, was on July 18, 1981, seen by Tom Davis and me. Bob Lewis Sleepy Hollow NY On Aug 30, 2010, at 2:51 PM, Phil Jeffrey wrote: > An adult Sharp-tailed Sandpiper in alternate plumage was seen at > Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge in NYC on August 3rd 2008, but this is > probably an exceptional case and not an experience I anticipate > repeating. > > Phil Jeffrey > NJ > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: "Sean E. McAllister" <sean AT MADRIVERBIO.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:40:37 -0700 According to Harris (1996), the two earliest fall records for northwestern California share the date of September 7th. Sean McAllister Eureka, CA sean AT madriverbio.com -----Original Message----- From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of DJ Lauten and KACastelein Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 11:05 AM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info Folks, I received a question from someone here in Oregon and am looking for a few responses. The gist of the question is when do Sharp-tailed Sandpipers start to show up in fall migration? Our earliest date here on the southwest coast of OR is 15 Sept. Apparently a possible bird was sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether that date is too early for this species. Anyone have any insight or thoughts? Cheers Dave Lauten Bandon OR deweysage AT verizon.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: Phil Jeffrey <phil.jeffrey AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 14:51:15 -0400 An adult Sharp-tailed Sandpiper in alternate plumage was seen at Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge in NYC on August 3rd 2008, but this is probably an exceptional case and not an experience I anticipate repeating. Phil Jeffrey NJ Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby AT TI.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:17:16 -0500 If we are talking juveniles, I think Jeff Gilligan once had one in very late August on the N. OR coast. More typically birds first show up around Sept 10 (the earliest I had one in N. OR). So I think the date is very early, but may not be totally implausible. -----Original Message----- From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of DJ Lauten and KACastelein Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 11:05 AM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDWG01] Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info Folks, I received a question from someone here in Oregon and am looking for a few responses. The gist of the question is when do Sharp-tailed Sandpipers start to show up in fall migration? Our earliest date here on the southwest coast of OR is 15 Sept. Apparently a possible bird was sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether that date is too early for this species. Anyone have any insight or thoughts? Cheers Dave Lauten Bandon OR deweysage AT verizon.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Sharp-tailed Sandpiper info From: DJ Lauten and KACastelein <deweysage AT VERIZON.NET> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:04:38 -0700 Folks, I received a question from someone here in Oregon and am looking for a few responses. The gist of the question is when do Sharp-tailed Sandpipers start to show up in fall migration? Our earliest date here on the southwest coast of OR is 15 Sept. Apparently a possible bird was sited 27 August around Bend, OR, and there is some question whether that date is too early for this species. Anyone have any insight or thoughts? Cheers Dave Lauten Bandon OR deweysage AT verizon.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question From: Alan Kneidel <akneidel AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:44:07 -0400 Last thoughts... I agree with the bird being a 1st cycle Sanderling, and considered it as such when I first came across the bird. The doubts came later on, when I started to think about the depth of its feeding, peculiarities in shape, and the fact that it was feeding alongside orinoco geese and southern screamers.. but thanks to our wealth of knowledge and experience here, those doubts have been quenched. I'm glad that a consensus has been made made, and thanks everybody for the lively and informative consultation. If further write ups need to be done to formally document this sighting, I am happy to oblige. -- Alan H. Kneidel Charlotte, North Carolina Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question From: "Arne J. Lesterhuis" <arne_j_lesterhuis AT YAHOO.CO.UK> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:41:49 +0000 Hi All, Just to affirm that indeed a Sanderling is not that rare in the interior of South America, at least not here in Paraguay as mentioned by Floyd. Multiple (almost anual) records of 1-3 birds at Bah�a de Asunci�n and the Central Chaco saline lagoons as of 2000 when we carried out regular monitoring. Also, in November 2000 a total 34 birds were observed at the saline lagoons in the Central Chaco, though that was rather an exceptional occurence. Also remember multiple site records of the species in Bolivia near Oruro by Tim Miller in November 1999, but guess that because of a lack of proper documentation, it is still hypothetical for Bolivia. Cheers!Arne �Arne J. Lesterhuis Asunci�n,�ParaguaySkyper: arne.lesterhuis��**********************************************************************The Brights;�illuminating and elevating the naturalistic worldviewThe Brights' Net is an international internet constituency of individuals who have a naturalistic worldview. You can visit the Brights homepage to learn more: http://www.the-brights.net � --- On Mon, 8/30/10, Floyd Hayes wrote: From: Floyd Hayes Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 6:48 PM I didn't seen this thread until this morning and want to point out that a Sanderling in Bolivia is not unexpected, for we know a few migrate south through central South America, probably annually. I photographed one in Paraguay on 17 and 25 November 1988, and I know there have been a number of subsequent records in various parts of Paraguay, some involving multiple birds (I know of at least one report of four on 31 August 1990). After reviewing the photos, comments and links to photos and videos (thanks Peter Adriaens), I'm firmly in the Sanderling camp. Floyd Hayes Hidden Valley Lake, CA � � � Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:48:03 -0700 I didn't seen this thread until this morning and want to point out that a Sanderling in Bolivia is not unexpected, for we know a few migrate south through central South America, probably annually. I photographed one in Paraguay on 17 and 25 November 1988, and I know there have been a number of subsequent records in various parts of Paraguay, some involving multiple birds (I know of at least one report of four on 31 August 1990). After reviewing the photos, comments and links to photos and videos (thanks Peter Adriaens), I'm firmly in the Sanderling camp. Floyd Hayes Hidden Valley Lake, CA Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Melanistic Shorebirds? From: OLCOOT1 AT AOL.COM Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:35:22 EDT Aug. 30, 2010 Over the years, sorting through a million shorebirds, I've seen and photographed shorebirds showing partial albinism, leucism and erythrism but never to my knowledge melanistic tendencies. I found a very odd Pectoral (for many reasons other than just color) in north Mississippi this weekend with a deep charcoal brown head certainly not stained. How often do others see this type of dark coloration in shorebirds? Photos at: _http://www.pbase.com/ol_coot/odd_pectoral_ (http://www.pbase.com/ol_coot/odd_pectoral) Good Birding !!! Jeff R. Wilson / TLBA 6300 Memphis-Arlington Road Bartlett, TN 38135 http://www.pbase.com/ol_coot/ What is this feathered thing that lifts my heart to the heavens. Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Nazca/Masked Booby from San Diego, CA From: Jay K <azure.jay AT EARTHLINK.NET> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 00:15:16 -0400 Four of us went offshore San Diego, CA USA today and photographed a juvenile booby that could either be a Masked or Nazca. It's quite difficult to tell juveniles apart, but per what we have read, most Nazcas tend to show the broken collar (as this one shows) and most Maskeds have a complete one, but this apparently is not definitive. We are exploring this ID with known Nazca/Masked experts, but also would like to hear from anyone reading this that also may have experience with them and could offer an opinion. Photos taken by BJ Stacey are at the link below: http://tinyurl.com/25guaup We'd appreciate hearing your thoughts. Jay Keller, San Diego, CA USA Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Bolivia Sanderling From: "Pratt, Doug" <doug.pratt AT NCDENR.GOV> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:57:42 -0400 Hi folks: I just spent a couple of hours looking for images on the internet that refute all the reasons given by those who think this bird is anything other than a Sanderling, and now see in today's digest that others have now been there and done that. This bird is identical, feather-for-feather (and more than just the black bend of wing; look at those distinctive Sanderling juv scapulars!) with a juvenile Sanderling transitioning to first basic. It's one thing for a bird of a given species to have aberrant plumage; it happens all the time. It's quite another for a bird to take on the exact plumage of another species. This bird is a Sanderling photographed in a very unusual location, one quite different from the habitats in which many of us see them. I see them often in the tropical Pacific, and there they always look slimmer and longer-necked than birds in cooler climes. Anyway, at the risk of duplication, below are urls for some photos I located that may be of interest. Birds feeding with head in the water and birds "tipping up": http://www.lloydspitalnik.com/v/shorebirds/sanderling/sanderling_R2D4994.jpg.html http://www.picsearch.com/imageDetail.cgi?id=D0Gn2iUCBnyZtgT8-qZ43aZaW0sFUpDIdePa84focZQ&width=1260&start=3781&q=Sanderling Birds in postures close to that of the Bolivia bird: www.christophesalin.com/oiseau/littoral/littoral12 http://www.homepages.mcb.net/wormwell/Sanderling200805.htm http://www.homepages.mcb.net/wormwell/Sanderling080906a.htm www.rocklandaudubon.org/images/IMG_3911c%20copy_sm A point worth mentioning, that is evident in the thousands of photos I looked at on the web, is that juvenile Sanderlings characteristically have a primary extension identical to that of the Bolivia bird, which is quite different from that of adults. Also, all a bird has to do to make its exposed tibia longer is compress its feathers to cool off. Bills of Sanderlings are, like those of most shorebirds, quite variable individually. Doug H. Douglas Pratt, Ph. D. Research Curator of Birds North Carolina State Museum of Natural Sciences 11 West Jones Street Raleigh, NC 27601 (919) 733-7450 ex 728 *E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.* Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Red-footed Booby in Spain From: [ Ricard Guti�rrez ] <rgutierrez AT GUTARB.JAZZTEL.ES> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 10:50:11 +0200 Hello all On 11.8.2010 John & Jane Hopkins photographed a small gannet off Estepona, M�laga, Mediterranean S Spain, which has turned up to be the 1st Red-footed Booby for Spain (and probably Europe). The full story with the photos are online at Rare Birds in Spain site here: http://www.rarebirdspain.net/arbsi035.htm . This record has already been submitted to the Spanish Rarities Committee. This area of the extreme SW Mediterranean is oceanographically considered to be in fact part of the Atlantic (even having a breeding colony of Cory�s Shearwaters! (Calonectris [diomedea] borealis)!) so in my opinion that fact may have some influence in the observation of these extralimital vagrants. But in the view of the extreme variation of this species and the also variable patterns of occurrence of the different morphs along the range of the booby, while I assume the most probable hypothesis is the bird coming from W African coasts (or Caribbean?), any comment on the possibility this morph could also match those of other areas would be welcome for the recording file. All the best Ricard Guti�rrez http://www.rarebirdspain.net 10 years Sept.1.2000-2010 Follow latest updates and Rarebirdspain news through facebook http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/pages/Rare-Birds-in-Spain/47728497760 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Listowner message - Bolivian shorebird From: Will Russell <willrussell AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:08:39 -0700 Enough! The sort of banter seen recently is fine for conversations between friends but wholly inappropriate when you think that 1000 others get dragged along. Norman: I'm losing patience with you. WR Will Russell willrussell AT comcast.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird From: Pim Wolf <pim.wolf AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 00:55:47 +0200 at least one of your friends thinks that the Bolivian wader is a worn juvenile Sanderling Norman. regards, pim On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 12:50 AM, wrote: > Nick, I am no expert in these matters but I promise to ask my friends. > BTW there is a very clever octopus in Germany's seaworld aquarium, he > predicted among other things that Spain was to win the world championship > soccer and not Holland. I am sure he is an expert in solving conflicts about > bird ID as well. Ask him! Here are the links: > > > > > http://www.radioactiverobins.com/snipes-waders/eskimo%20curlew%20numenius%20borealis.htm > > > > > > http://www.radioactiverobins.com/snipes-waders/wilson's%20plover%20charadrius%20wilsonia-1.htm > > > > > > http://www.radioactiverobins.com/snipes-waders/wilson's%20plover%20charadrius%20wilsonia-2.htm > > > > Cheers, Norman > > > > >I feel sure that this bird is either a Wilson�s Plover or an Eskimo > Curlew, but not sure which given the similarities of these two species. > > > > Nick > > nlethaby AT ti.com > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto: > BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *julian hough > *Sent:* Friday, August 27, 2010 1:49 PM > *To:* BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Subject:* Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird > > > > Norman, > > > > I wish I could get 166 of my friends to respond to any of my emails that > quickly. And to all agree with you. That's some loyal circle of friends. I'd > definitely agree with them. > > > > Best, > > > > Julian Hough, > > CT, USA > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* "norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL" > *To:* BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Sent:* Fri, August 27, 2010 4:03:02 PM > *Subject:* Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird > > The choice is between a White-rumped Sandpiper in abnormal plumage and not > more than that or a Sanderling combining a number of unusual characters in > one individual i.e. 1) too long tibia; 2) an unusual bill-shape; 3) an > uncharacteristic long primary-projection; 4) a jizz and size similar to the > White-rumped Sandpiper standing next to it and 5) turning up in place where > no Sanderling has ever been reported before. And there is more: 6) it has > worn white coverts in November! A phenomenon not even known from Sanderlings > in the Camarque of all places! The quality of 'leucistic' feathers may be > inferior compared to normal feathers and suffer more from the bright > sunlight of the southern summer! > I showed the pics to 166 of my closest friends and, believe it or not, all > of them said: definitely a leucistic white-rump! Well, if that doesn't proof > it can never be a sanderling I would eat my hat if I had one! > Cheers, Norman > > > Dave Lauten wrote: > Ok, you folks are convincing me. I just think that > the second bird in > > the second shot has a similar bill, blackish primaries, leg length, and > primary projection. But as I said last night, I don't normally like to > stick my neck out, because I find these 1-2 photograph birds to be difficult > to assess. If I saw a video or this bird in real life, maybe I would > quickly say 'that's a Sanderling'. I must admit, in the first shot there is > nothing to compare the bird to, so size and shape are not that easy to > assess.< > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > -- Pim Wolf Vlissingen The Netherlands uit Nederland 06-22783428 from abroad +31 6227 834 28 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird From: norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 00:50:23 +0200 Nick, I am no expert in these matters but I promise to ask my friends. BTW there is a very clever octopus in Germany's seaworld aquarium, he predicted among other things that Spain was to win the world championship soccer and not Holland. I am sure he is an expert in solving conflicts about bird ID as well. Ask him! Here are the links: http://www.radioactiverobins.com/snipes-waders/eskimo%20curlew%20numenius%20borealis.htm http://www.radioactiverobins.com/snipes-waders/wilson's%20plover%20charadrius%20wilsonia-1.htm http://www.radioactiverobins.com/snipes-waders/wilson's%20plover%20charadrius%20wilsonia-2.htm Cheers, Norman >I feel sure that this bird is either a Wilson's Plover or an Eskimo Curlew, but not sure which given the similarities of these two species. Nick nlethaby AT ti.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of julian hough Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:49 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird Norman, I wish I could get 166 of my friends to respond to any of my emails that quickly. And to all agree with you. That's some loyal circle of friends. I'd definitely agree with them. Best, Julian Hough, CT, USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 4:03:02 PM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird The choice is between a White-rumped Sandpiper in abnormal plumage and not more than that or a Sanderling combining a number of unusual characters in one individual i.e. 1) too long tibia; 2) an unusual bill-shape; 3) an uncharacteristic long primary-projection; 4) a jizz and size similar to the White-rumped Sandpiper standing next to it and 5) turning up in place where no Sanderling has ever been reported before. And there is more: 6) it has worn white coverts in November! A phenomenon not even known from Sanderlings in the Camarque of all places! The quality of 'leucistic' feathers may be inferior compared to normal feathers and suffer more from the bright sunlight of the southern summer! I showed the pics to 166 of my closest friends and, believe it or not, all of them said: definitely a leucistic white-rump! Well, if that doesn't proof it can never be a sanderling I would eat my hat if I had one! Cheers, Norman Dave Lauten wrote: > Ok, you folks are convincing me. I just think that the second bird in > the second shot has a similar bill, blackish primaries, leg length, and primary projection. But as I said last night, I don't normally like to stick my neck out, because I find these 1-2 photograph birds to be difficult to assess. If I saw a video or this bird in real life, maybe I would quickly say 'that's a Sanderling'. I must admit, in the first shot there is nothing to compare the bird to, so size and shape are not that easy to assess.< Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question From: Matt Brady <podoces AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:04:33 -0700 Given the relatively narrow breeding range (longitudinally-speaking) of species such as Sanderling, Surfbird and Western Sandpiper, but extremely broad (again, longitudinally-speaking) non-breeding range, would it make sense to expect that individuals with longer wings also migrate further? Just like longer-winged species migrate further, perhaps longer-winged individuals within a species also migrate further. This might help explain why a bird found in Bolivia, towards the southern end of the species non-breeding range, might look surprisingly long-winged to those of us used to seeing the species in the middle of the Northern Hemisphere. Does anyone know if this has actually been documented, one way or the other? Matt Brady SE Farallon Island, CA ________________________________ From: Alvaro Jaramillo To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 2:34:23 PM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Peter On your last point. Aerial surveys suggest that nearly 90% of all Sanderlings wintering in South America winter on the Pacific Coast. Most of these are in Peru and Chile, of course those two countries account for much of the Pacific Coast of the continent! Surveys (Guy Morrison, Canadian Wildlife Service) in the 80s counted just over 100,000 Sanderlings on the continent. Given that there are large numbers that migrate on the Atlantic Coast of North America, more than 10,000 this suggests that some of these Atlantic birds do indeed use the Pacific coast in winter. Large numbers winter as far south as Chiloe (41 degrees south) in Chile, so they certainly do get well south in good quantities. During migration I have seen flocks of 5000 Sanderlings in Chile, absolutely stunning! I have yet to see these types of numbers in California. But more directly to your point, you are correct. Myers, Salaberry et al. 1990 confirm that many east coast migrant Sanderlings winter on the Pacific Coast bsased on color marked individuals. Furthermore some North American West Coast northbound migrants head south using an Atlantic Route! Check it out: http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v107n01/p0172-p0180.pdf Cheers, Alvaro Alvaro Jaramillo chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide www.fieldguides.com -----Original Message----- From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Pyle Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:40 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Good discussion, and I'm also now on board with first-cycle Sanderling, now that I've had a longer look (and thanks to all the other opinion provided), based on a good look at the the plumage. Structure and habits still seem off to me, especially that of the bill, but I'm thinking now that this might be because I too am used to this species running up and down the beach in California and Hawaii, and never see them wading around like this. I had also thought wing-tip too long for Sanderling (and too short for White-rumped) but see now that it can be matched by some Sanderlings, but not as much it seems by our shorter-distant migrant California winterers. Perhaps bill length and structure also shows slight geographic variation. This all makes me wonder if the longer-distance migrant Sanderlings all come from the Atlantic side (cf. Willet) and that the Bolivian bird is of this origin. Peter At 12:37 PM 8/27/2010, Kevin Karlson wrote: >All: > >As I mentioned before, I did not feel that strongly about naming this >bird, but agreed that the plumage was dead on for Sanderling. >After listening to all the carefully thought out arguments, I would >agree that it is probably a Sanderling. As for my points on behavior >and body shape/structure, I was only pointing out the "normal" >behavior and body structure, and also pointed out that I had seen a >number of my own photos of Sanderling that showed a long primary >projection, but all of these photos were either juvenile or first cycle >birds in spring, where the flight feathers and wing coverts were >retained juvenile feathers, and consequently longer than an adult bird >shows. All of my adult Sanderling shots showed very little primary >projection, which is a point that should be noted here. > > > > When Peter shows a number of photos that illustrate his point, I > could post 100's of photos that reinforce my points, which only > means that there is more variation in this species than I > previously thought. This is the value of this forum, where numerous > expert points are shared with a discussion of a tricky photo. I am > in good company when both Peter Pyle and I thought the first shot > suggested Pectoral, but as I pointed out, a single photo capture > can often be more misleading than helpful when trying to evaluate > the shape and structure of a bird. I agree with Pierrre and Peter > that the plumage is indicative of a first winter Sanderling, with > worn retained wing coverts and a smattering of 1st adult basic > upperpart feathers. This could also explain the long primary > projection. Phil Jefferey also posed some good points that added to > the strength of Sanderling. Thanks for a positive learning > experience. I live on the Atlantic Coast in Cape May, and see > Sanderling every day of the year, including tens of thousands in > spring a block from my house on Reeds Beach Rd, but there is always > something new to learn from others. I have also observed numerous > Sanderlings feeding in deep water in Titusville Florida every > winter, and near High Island Texas in March and April each year, > but I guess I need to watch their behavior more carefully in these > situations. You can bet I will this January in Florida. > > > >Kevin Karlson >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Alan Kneidel" >To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM >Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question > >Hello folks, > >In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a shorebird >seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of Trinidad) in >November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several White-rumped >Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a shallow freshwater >lagoon. > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ > >I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all that >being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped Sandpiper? >juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts would be >appreciated... > >Cheers, >-- >Alan H. Kneidel >980-254-2706 >akneidel AT gmail.com > > > >-- >Alan H. Kneidel >980-254-2706 >akneidel AT gmail.com > > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > >Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01: >http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > >Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao AT COASTSIDE.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:34:23 -0700 Peter On your last point. Aerial surveys suggest that nearly 90% of all Sanderlings wintering in South America winter on the Pacific Coast. Most of these are in Peru and Chile, of course those two countries account for much of the Pacific Coast of the continent! Surveys (Guy Morrison, Canadian Wildlife Service) in the 80s counted just over 100,000 Sanderlings on the continent. Given that there are large numbers that migrate on the Atlantic Coast of North America, more than 10,000 this suggests that some of these Atlantic birds do indeed use the Pacific coast in winter. Large numbers winter as far south as Chiloe (41 degrees south) in Chile, so they certainly do get well south in good quantities. During migration I have seen flocks of 5000 Sanderlings in Chile, absolutely stunning! I have yet to see these types of numbers in California. But more directly to your point, you are correct. Myers, Salaberry et al. 1990 confirm that many east coast migrant Sanderlings winter on the Pacific Coast bsased on color marked individuals. Furthermore some North American West Coast northbound migrants head south using an Atlantic Route! Check it out: http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v107n01/p0172-p0180.pdf Cheers, Alvaro Alvaro Jaramillo chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide www.fieldguides.com -----Original Message----- From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Pyle Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:40 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Good discussion, and I'm also now on board with first-cycle Sanderling, now that I've had a longer look (and thanks to all the other opinion provided), based on a good look at the the plumage. Structure and habits still seem off to me, especially that of the bill, but I'm thinking now that this might be because I too am used to this species running up and down the beach in California and Hawaii, and never see them wading around like this. I had also thought wing-tip too long for Sanderling (and too short for White-rumped) but see now that it can be matched by some Sanderlings, but not as much it seems by our shorter-distant migrant California winterers. Perhaps bill length and structure also shows slight geographic variation. This all makes me wonder if the longer-distance migrant Sanderlings all come from the Atlantic side (cf. Willet) and that the Bolivian bird is of this origin. Peter At 12:37 PM 8/27/2010, Kevin Karlson wrote: >All: > >As I mentioned before, I did not feel that strongly about naming this >bird, but agreed that the plumage was dead on for Sanderling. >After listening to all the carefully thought out arguments, I would >agree that it is probably a Sanderling. As for my points on behavior >and body shape/structure, I was only pointing out the "normal" >behavior and body structure, and also pointed out that I had seen a >number of my own photos of Sanderling that showed a long primary >projection, but all of these photos were either juvenile or first cycle >birds in spring, where the flight feathers and wing coverts were >retained juvenile feathers, and consequently longer than an adult bird >shows. All of my adult Sanderling shots showed very little primary >projection, which is a point that should be noted here. > > > > When Peter shows a number of photos that illustrate his point, I > could post 100's of photos that reinforce my points, which only > means that there is more variation in this species than I > previously thought. This is the value of this forum, where numerous > expert points are shared with a discussion of a tricky photo. I am > in good company when both Peter Pyle and I thought the first shot > suggested Pectoral, but as I pointed out, a single photo capture > can often be more misleading than helpful when trying to evaluate > the shape and structure of a bird. I agree with Pierrre and Peter > that the plumage is indicative of a first winter Sanderling, with > worn retained wing coverts and a smattering of 1st adult basic > upperpart feathers. This could also explain the long primary > projection. Phil Jefferey also posed some good points that added to > the strength of Sanderling. Thanks for a positive learning > experience. I live on the Atlantic Coast in Cape May, and see > Sanderling every day of the year, including tens of thousands in > spring a block from my house on Reeds Beach Rd, but there is always > something new to learn from others. I have also observed numerous > Sanderlings feeding in deep water in Titusville Florida every > winter, and near High Island Texas in March and April each year, > but I guess I need to watch their behavior more carefully in these > situations. You can bet I will this January in Florida. > > > >Kevin Karlson >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Alan Kneidel" >To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM >Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question > >Hello folks, > >In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a shorebird >seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of Trinidad) in >November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several White-rumped >Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a shallow freshwater >lagoon. > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ > >I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all that >being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped Sandpiper? >juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts would be >appreciated... > >Cheers, >-- >Alan H. Kneidel >980-254-2706 >akneidel AT gmail.com > > > >-- >Alan H. Kneidel >980-254-2706 >akneidel AT gmail.com > > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > >Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01: >http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > >Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird From: norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 23:07:36 +0200 The secret dear Julian, but please don't tell anyone(!): Glenfiddich galore Cheers & cheers, Norman! >I wish I could get 166 of my friends to respond to any of my emails that quickly. And to all agree with you. That's some loyal circle of friends. I'd definitely agree with them. Best, Julian Hough, CT, USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 4:03:02 PM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird The choice is between a White-rumped Sandpiper in abnormal plumage and not more than that or a Sanderling combining a number of unusual characters in one individual i.e. 1) too long tibia; 2) an unusual bill-shape; 3) an uncharacteristic long primary-projection; 4) a jizz and size similar to the White-rumped Sandpiper standing next to it and 5) turning up in place where no Sanderling has ever been reported before. And there is more: 6) it has worn white coverts in November! A phenomenon not even known from Sanderlings in the Camarque of all places! The quality of 'leucistic' feathers may be inferior compared to normal feathers and suffer more from the bright sunlight of the southern summer! I showed the pics to 166 of my closest friends and, believe it or not, all of them said: definitely a leucistic white-rump! Well, if that doesn't proof it can never be a sanderling I would eat my hat if I had one! Cheers, Norman Dave Lauten wrote: > Ok, you folks are convincing me. I just think that the second bird in > the second shot has a similar bill, blackish primaries, leg length, and primary projection. But as I said last night, I don't normally like to stick my neck out, because I find these 1-2 photograph birds to be difficult to assess. If I saw a video or this bird in real life, maybe I would quickly say 'that's a Sanderling'. I must admit, in the first shot there is nothing to compare the bird to, so size and shape are not that easy to assess.< Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question From: Jay K <azure.jay AT EARTHLINK.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:50:31 -0400 The below-linked study on Sanderling migration may be of interest to those following this thread. http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v107n01/p0172-p0180.pdf Jay Keller, San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- >From: Peter Pyle >Sent: Aug 27, 2010 4:39 PM >To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question > >Good discussion, and I'm also now on board with first-cycle >Sanderling, now that I've had a longer look (and thanks to all the >other opinion provided), based on a good look at the the plumage. > >Structure and habits still seem off to me, especially that of the >bill, but I'm thinking now that this might be because I too am used >to this species running up and down the beach in California and >Hawaii, and never see them wading around like this. I had also >thought wing-tip too long for Sanderling (and too short for >White-rumped) but see now that it can be matched by some Sanderlings, >but not as much it seems by our shorter-distant migrant California >winterers. Perhaps bill length and structure also shows slight >geographic variation. > >This all makes me wonder if the longer-distance migrant Sanderlings >all come from the Atlantic side (cf. Willet) and that the Bolivian >bird is of this origin. > >Peter > >At 12:37 PM 8/27/2010, Kevin Karlson wrote: > >>All: >> >>As I mentioned before, I did not feel that strongly about naming >>this bird, but agreed that the plumage was dead on for Sanderling. >>After listening to all the carefully thought out arguments, I would >>agree that it is probably a Sanderling. As for my points on behavior >>and body shape/structure, I was only pointing out the "normal" >>behavior and body structure, and also pointed out that I had seen a >>number of my own photos of Sanderling that showed a long primary >>projection, but all of these photos were either juvenile or first >>cycle birds in spring, where the flight feathers and wing coverts >>were retained juvenile feathers, and consequently longer than an >>adult bird shows. All of my adult Sanderling shots showed very >>little primary projection, which is a point that should be noted here. >> >> >> >> When Peter shows a number of photos that illustrate his point, I >> could post 100's of photos that reinforce my points, which only >> means that there is more variation in this species than I >> previously thought. This is the value of this forum, where numerous >> expert points are shared with a discussion of a tricky photo. I am >> in good company when both Peter Pyle and I thought the first shot >> suggested Pectoral, but as I pointed out, a single photo capture >> can often be more misleading than helpful when trying to evaluate >> the shape and structure of a bird. I agree with Pierrre and Peter >> that the plumage is indicative of a first winter Sanderling, with >> worn retained wing coverts and a smattering of 1st adult basic >> upperpart feathers. This could also explain the long primary >> projection. Phil Jefferey also posed some good points that added to >> the strength of Sanderling. Thanks for a positive learning >> experience. I live on the Atlantic Coast in Cape May, and see >> Sanderling every day of the year, including tens of thousands in >> spring a block from my house on Reeds Beach Rd, but there is always >> something new to learn from others. I have also observed numerous >> Sanderlings feeding in deep water in Titusville Florida every >> winter, and near High Island Texas in March and April each year, >> but I guess I need to watch their behavior more carefully in these >> situations. You can bet I will this January in Florida. >> >> >> >>Kevin Karlson >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Alan Kneidel" >>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >>Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM >>Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question >> >>Hello folks, >> >>In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a shorebird >>seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of Trinidad) in >>November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several White-rumped >>Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a shallow freshwater >>lagoon. >> >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ >> >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ >> >>I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all that >>being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped Sandpiper? >>juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts would be >>appreciated... >> >>Cheers, >>-- >>Alan H. Kneidel >>980-254-2706 >>akneidel AT gmail.com >> >> >> >>-- >>Alan H. Kneidel >>980-254-2706 >>akneidel AT gmail.com >> >> >>Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 >> >>Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html >> >>Join or Leave BIRDWG01: >>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 >> >>Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > >Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby AT TI.COM> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:54:12 -0500 Norm: I feel sure that this bird is either a Wilson's Plover or an Eskimo Curlew, but not sure which given the similarities of these two species. Nick nlethaby AT ti.com ________________________________ From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of julian hough Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:49 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird Norman, I wish I could get 166 of my friends to respond to any of my emails that quickly. And to all agree with you. That's some loyal circle of friends. I'd definitely agree with them. Best, Julian Hough, CT, USA ________________________________ From: "norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 4:03:02 PM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird The choice is between a White-rumped Sandpiper in abnormal plumage and not more than that or a Sanderling combining a number of unusual characters in one individual i.e. 1) too long tibia; 2) an unusual bill-shape; 3) an uncharacteristic long primary-projection; 4) a jizz and size similar to the White-rumped Sandpiper standing next to it and 5) turning up in place where no Sanderling has ever been reported before. And there is more: 6) it has worn white coverts in November! A phenomenon not even known from Sanderlings in the Camarque of all places! The quality of 'leucistic' feathers may be inferior compared to normal feathers and suffer more from the bright sunlight of the southern summer! I showed the pics to 166 of my closest friends and, believe it or not, all of them said: definitely a leucistic white-rump! Well, if that doesn't proof it can never be a sanderling I would eat my hat if I had one! Cheers, Norman Dave Lauten wrote: > Ok, you folks are convincing me. I just think that the second bird in > the second shot has a similar bill, blackish primaries, leg length, and primary projection. But as I said last night, I don't normally like to stick my neck out, because I find these 1-2 photograph birds to be difficult to assess. If I saw a video or this bird in real life, maybe I would quickly say 'that's a Sanderling'. I must admit, in the first shot there is nothing to compare the bird to, so size and shape are not that easy to assess.< Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question From: Erik Johnson <ejohn33 AT TIGERS.LSU.EDU> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:51:58 -0500 All, I am not sure this bird is as bleached or worn as Norman suggests. The photos are overexposed and with close examination you can see crisp edging to the median coverts, especially in the shot with the head above water. The med covs are among the palest-centered wing feathers in a typical 1CY bird and would be the first to bleach out from overexposure. In my opinion, the plumage is perfectly consistent with a 1CY Sanderling with this consideration. Cheers, Erik Johnson S Lafayette, LA ejohn33 AT lsu.edu On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Peter Pyle wrote: > Good discussion, and I'm also now on board with first-cycle Sanderling, now > that I've had a longer look (and thanks to all the other opinion provided), > based on a good look at the the plumage. > > Structure and habits still seem off to me, especially that of the bill, but > I'm thinking now that this might be because I too am used to this species > running up and down the beach in California and Hawaii, and never see them > wading around like this. I had also thought wing-tip too long for Sanderling > (and too short for White-rumped) but see now that it can be matched by some > Sanderlings, but not as much it seems by our shorter-distant migrant > California winterers. Perhaps bill length and structure also shows slight > geographic variation. > > This all makes me wonder if the longer-distance migrant Sanderlings all come > from the Atlantic side (cf. Willet) and that the Bolivian bird is of this > origin. > > Peter > > At 12:37 PM 8/27/2010, Kevin Karlson wrote: > >> All: >> >> As I mentioned before, I did not feel that strongly about naming this >> bird, but agreed that the plumage was dead on for Sanderling. After >> listening to all the carefully thought out arguments, I would agree that it >> is probably a Sanderling. As for my points on behavior and body >> shape/structure, I was only pointing out the "normal" behavior and body >> structure, and also pointed out that I had seen a number of my own photos of >> Sanderling that showed a long primary projection, but all of these photos >> were either juvenile or first cycle birds in spring, where the flight >> feathers and wing coverts were retained juvenile feathers, and consequently >> longer than an adult bird shows. All of my adult Sanderling shots showed >> very little primary projection, which is a point that should be noted here. >> >> >> >> �When Peter shows a number of photos that illustrate his point, I could >> post 100's of photos that reinforce my points, which only means that there >> is more variation in this species than I previously thought. This is the >> value of this forum, where numerous expert points are shared with a >> discussion of a tricky photo. I am in good company when both Peter Pyle and >> I thought the first shot suggested Pectoral, but as I pointed out, a single >> photo capture can often be more misleading than helpful when trying to >> evaluate the shape and structure of a bird. I agree with Pierrre and Peter >> that the plumage is indicative of a first winter Sanderling, with worn >> retained wing coverts and a smattering of 1st adult basic upperpart >> feathers. This could also explain the long primary projection. Phil Jefferey >> also posed some good points that added to the strength of Sanderling. Thanks >> for a positive learning experience. I live on the Atlantic Coast in Cape >> May, and see Sanderling every day of the year, including tens of thousands >> in spring a block from my house on Reeds Beach Rd, but there is always >> something new to learn from others. I have also observed numerous >> Sanderlings feeding in deep water in Titusville Florida every winter, and >> near High Island Texas in March and April each year, but I guess I need to >> watch their behavior more carefully in these situations. You can bet I will >> this January in Florida. >> >> >> >> Kevin Karlson >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Alan Kneidel" >> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM >> Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question >> >> Hello folks, >> >> In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a shorebird >> seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of Trinidad) in >> November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several White-rumped >> Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a shallow freshwater >> lagoon. >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ >> >> I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all >> that >> being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped Sandpiper? >> juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts would be >> appreciated... >> >> Cheers, >> -- >> Alan H. Kneidel >> 980-254-2706 >> akneidel AT gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Alan H. Kneidel >> 980-254-2706 >> akneidel AT gmail.com >> >> >> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: >> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 >> >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html >> >> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: >> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 >> >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird From: julian hough <jrhough1 AT SNET.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:49:02 -0700 Norman, I wish I could get 166 of my friends to respond to any of my emails that quickly. And to all agree with you. That's some loyal circle of friends. I'd definitely agree with them. Best, Julian Hough, CT, USA ________________________________ From: "norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 4:03:02 PM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird The choice is between a White-rumped Sandpiper in abnormal plumage and not more than that or a Sanderling combining a number of unusual characters in one individual i.e. 1) too long tibia; 2) an unusual bill-shape; 3) an uncharacteristic long primary-projection; 4) a jizz and size similar to the White-rumped Sandpiper standing next to it and 5) turning up in place where no Sanderling has ever been reported before. And there is more: 6) it has worn white coverts in November! A phenomenon not even known from Sanderlings in the Camarque of all places! The quality of 'leucistic' feathers may be inferior compared to normal feathers and suffer more from the bright sunlight of the southern summer! I showed the pics to 166 of my closest friends and, believe it or not, all of them said: definitely a leucistic white-rump! Well, if that doesn't proof it can never be a sanderling I would eat my hat if I had one! Cheers, Norman Dave Lauten wrote: >� Ok, you folks are convincing me.� I just think that the second bird in > the second shot has a similar bill, blackish primaries, leg length, and primary >projection.� But as I said last night, I don't normally like to stick my neck >out, because I find these 1-2 photograph birds to be difficult to assess.� If I >saw a video or this bird in real life, maybe I would quickly say 'that's a >Sanderling'.� I must admit, in the first shot there is nothing to compare the >bird to, so size and shape are not that easy to assess.< Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question From: Peter Pyle <ppyle AT BIRDPOP.ORG> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:39:40 -0700 Good discussion, and I'm also now on board with first-cycle Sanderling, now that I've had a longer look (and thanks to all the other opinion provided), based on a good look at the the plumage. Structure and habits still seem off to me, especially that of the bill, but I'm thinking now that this might be because I too am used to this species running up and down the beach in California and Hawaii, and never see them wading around like this. I had also thought wing-tip too long for Sanderling (and too short for White-rumped) but see now that it can be matched by some Sanderlings, but not as much it seems by our shorter-distant migrant California winterers. Perhaps bill length and structure also shows slight geographic variation. This all makes me wonder if the longer-distance migrant Sanderlings all come from the Atlantic side (cf. Willet) and that the Bolivian bird is of this origin. Peter At 12:37 PM 8/27/2010, Kevin Karlson wrote: >All: > >As I mentioned before, I did not feel that strongly about naming >this bird, but agreed that the plumage was dead on for Sanderling. >After listening to all the carefully thought out arguments, I would >agree that it is probably a Sanderling. As for my points on behavior >and body shape/structure, I was only pointing out the "normal" >behavior and body structure, and also pointed out that I had seen a >number of my own photos of Sanderling that showed a long primary >projection, but all of these photos were either juvenile or first >cycle birds in spring, where the flight feathers and wing coverts >were retained juvenile feathers, and consequently longer than an >adult bird shows. All of my adult Sanderling shots showed very >little primary projection, which is a point that should be noted here. > > > > When Peter shows a number of photos that illustrate his point, I > could post 100's of photos that reinforce my points, which only > means that there is more variation in this species than I > previously thought. This is the value of this forum, where numerous > expert points are shared with a discussion of a tricky photo. I am > in good company when both Peter Pyle and I thought the first shot > suggested Pectoral, but as I pointed out, a single photo capture > can often be more misleading than helpful when trying to evaluate > the shape and structure of a bird. I agree with Pierrre and Peter > that the plumage is indicative of a first winter Sanderling, with > worn retained wing coverts and a smattering of 1st adult basic > upperpart feathers. This could also explain the long primary > projection. Phil Jefferey also posed some good points that added to > the strength of Sanderling. Thanks for a positive learning > experience. I live on the Atlantic Coast in Cape May, and see > Sanderling every day of the year, including tens of thousands in > spring a block from my house on Reeds Beach Rd, but there is always > something new to learn from others. I have also observed numerous > Sanderlings feeding in deep water in Titusville Florida every > winter, and near High Island Texas in March and April each year, > but I guess I need to watch their behavior more carefully in these > situations. You can bet I will this January in Florida. > > > >Kevin Karlson >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Alan Kneidel" >To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM >Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question > >Hello folks, > >In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a shorebird >seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of Trinidad) in >November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several White-rumped >Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a shallow freshwater >lagoon. > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ > >I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all that >being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped Sandpiper? >juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts would be >appreciated... > >Cheers, >-- >Alan H. Kneidel >980-254-2706 >akneidel AT gmail.com > > > >-- >Alan H. Kneidel >980-254-2706 >akneidel AT gmail.com > > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > >Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01: >http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > >Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Western or White-rumped Sandpiper - photos From: Kevin Karlson <karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:22:17 +0000 Jean and all: I now agree with all of you that this bird is a small, bright White-rumped Sandpiper. These extra photos really show the variation in size and plumage that occurs near James Bay in August, as we never see birds this bright on the Mid-Atlantic coast in August. Chris Wood's point about birds molting in the far north seems like a good one. I see that Mark Peck took these photos, so I owe you a beer, my friend, for a lesson well learned. I wish these extra photos had been posted earlier so that I could have avoided two mistakes in two days. Oh well, life is for learning, and there are plenty of astute shorebird enthusiasts out there to point out our mistakes. This is so much more fun than gulls. Kevin Karlson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Iron" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:44:27 PM Subject: [BIRDWG01] Western or White-rumped Sandpiper - photos We are now confident that the James Bay sandpiper is a White-rumped Sandpiper. Here are photos showing variation in White-rumped Sandpipers from James Bay. See details in captions. http://www.jeaniron.ca/2010/JamesBay2010/whiterumpedvariation.htm Original two photos of bird under discussion. http://www.jeaniron.ca/2010/JamesBay2010/longridge2.htm Jean Iron and Ron Pittaway Toronto and Minden, Ontario Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question From: norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 22:09:21 +0200 Dear Kevin, may I recommend you look at Sanderling's wing-coverts and tertials come November? Cheers, Norman Kevin Karlson wrote: >As I mentioned before, I did not feel that strongly about naming this bird, but agreed that the plumage was dead on for Sanderling. After listening to all the carefully thought out arguments, I would agree that it is probably a Sanderling. As for my points on behavior and body shape/structure, I was only pointing out the "normal" behavior and body structure, and also pointed out that I had seen a number of my own photos of Sanderling that showed a long primary projection, but all of these photos were either juvenile or first cycle birds in spring, where the flight feathers and wing coverts were retained juvenile feathers, and consequently longer than an adult bird shows. All of my adult Sanderling shots showed very little primary projection, which is a point that should be noted here. When Peter shows a number of photos that illustrate his point, I could post 100's of photos that reinforce my points, which only means that there is more variation in this species than I previously thought. This is the value of this forum, where numerous expert points are shared with a discussion of a tricky photo. I am in good company when both Peter Pyle and I thought the first shot suggested Pectoral, but as I pointed out, a single photo capture can often be more misleading than helpful when trying to evaluate the shape and structure of a bird. I agree with Pierrre and Peter that the plumage is indicative of a first winter Sanderling, with worn retained wing coverts and a smattering of 1st adult basic upperpart feathers. This could also explain the long primary projection. Phil Jefferey also posed some good points that added to the strength of Sanderling. Thanks for a positive learning experience. I live on the Atlantic Coast in Cape May, and see Sanderling every day of the year, including tens of thousands in spring a block from my house on Reeds Beach Rd, but there is always something new to learn from others. I have also observed numerous Sanderlings feeding in deep water in Titusville Florida every winter, and near High Island Texas in March and April each year, but I guess I need to watch their behavior more carefully in these situations. You can bet I will this January in Florida. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kneidel" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Hello folks, In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a shorebird seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of Trinidad) in November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several White-rumped Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a shallow freshwater lagoon. http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all that being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped Sandpiper? juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts would be appreciated... Cheers, -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird From: norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 22:03:02 +0200 The choice is between a White-rumped Sandpiper in abnormal plumage and not more than that or a Sanderling combining a number of unusual characters in one individual i.e. 1) too long tibia; 2) an unusual bill-shape; 3) an uncharacteristic long primary-projection; 4) a jizz and size similar to the White-rumped Sandpiper standing next to it and 5) turning up in place where no Sanderling has ever been reported before. And there is more: 6) it has worn white coverts in November! A phenomenon not even known from Sanderlings in the Camarque of all places! The quality of 'leucistic' feathers may be inferior compared to normal feathers and suffer more from the bright sunlight of the southern summer! I showed the pics to 166 of my closest friends and, believe it or not, all of them said: definitely a leucistic white-rump! Well, if that doesn't proof it can never be a sanderling I would eat my hat if I had one! Cheers, Norman Dave Lauten wrote: > Ok, you folks are convincing me. I just think that the second bird in > the second shot has a similar bill, blackish primaries, leg length, and > primary projection. But as I said last night, I don't normally like to > stick my neck out, because I find these 1-2 photograph birds to be > difficult to assess. If I saw a video or this bird in real life, maybe I > would quickly say 'that's a Sanderling'. I must admit, in the first shot > there is nothing to compare the bird to, so size and shape are not that > easy to assess.< Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question From: Kevin Karlson <karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 19:37:59 +0000 All: As I mentioned before, I did not feel that strongly about naming this bird, but agreed that the plumage was dead on for Sanderling. After listening to all the carefully thought out arguments, I would agree that it is probably a Sanderling. As for my points on behavior and body shape/structure, I was only pointing out the "normal" behavior and body structure, and also pointed out that I had seen a number of my own photos of Sanderling that showed a long primary projection, but all of these photos were either juvenile or first cycle birds in spring, where the flight feathers and wing coverts were retained juvenile feathers, and consequently longer than an adult bird shows. All of my adult Sanderling shots showed very little primary projection, which is a point that should be noted here.  When Peter shows a number of photos that illustrate his point, I could post 100's of photos that reinforce my points, which only means that there is more variation in this species than I previously thought. This is the value of this forum, where numerous expert points are shared with a discussion of a tricky photo. I am in good company when both Peter Pyle and I thought the first shot suggested Pectoral, but as I pointed out, a single photo capture can often be more misleading than helpful when trying to evaluate the shape and structure of a bird. I agree with Pierrre and Peter that the plumage is indicative of a first winter Sanderling, with worn retained wing coverts and a smattering of 1st adult basic upperpart feathers. This could also explain the long primary projection. Phil Jefferey also posed some good points that added to the strength of Sanderling. Thanks for a positive learning experience. I live on the Atlantic Coast in Cape May, and see Sanderling every day of the year, including tens of thousands in spring a block from my house on Reeds Beach Rd, but there is always something new to learn from others. I have also observed numerous Sanderlings feeding in deep water in Titusville Florida every winter, and near High Island Texas in March and April each year , but I guess I need to watch their behavior more carefully in these situations. You can bet I will this January in Florida. Kevin Karlson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kneidel" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Hello folks, In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a shorebird seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of Trinidad) in November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several White-rumped Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a shallow freshwater lagoon. http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all that being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped Sandpiper? juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts would be appreciated... Cheers, -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Short-tailed Shearwaters in the Atlantic From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby AT TI.COM> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:35:05 -0500 All; Given that there are now apparently two specimen records for the Atlantic (FLA and Brazil - I wasn't able to open this paper but assume a speciment) that presumably were found dead, I am wondering how suggestive it is that ST Shear might be a fairly frequent vagrant to the Atlantic. Is anyone aware of Great or Manx Shearwater specimens in the Pacific? How frequent are dead pterodromas along the Atlantic seaboard? Regards, Nick Lethaby nlethaby AT ti.com +1 805 562 5106 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required From: davidsonne AT AOL.COM Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:18:31 -0400 There are now two photo documented records of Great Shearwater for Alaska. David Sonneborn Anchorage -----Original Message----- From: Steven Mlodinow <sgmlod AT AOL.COM> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:44 am Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required Greetings Lee and others I can not speak to North American Atlantic Coast records of ST Shearwater, though I seem to remember one, but could be wrong. I also seem to remember an east coast (North America) Buller's Shearwater record. Perhaps equally importantly is that Manx Shearwater seems to be in process of colonizing the ne. Pacific, Greater Shearwaters have been seen >10 times off California/Oregon/Washington/British Columbia (or nearly 10 times), and that a Cory's Shearwater spent a summer (built a nest???) off NW Baja California. So, it seems to me that these southern ocean shearwaters are not only capable of, but likely to rarely occur in the "wrong" ocean during the non-breeding season. Cheers Steve Mlodinow -----Original Message----- From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, Aug 27, 2010 8:14 am Subject: [BIRDWG01] SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required There has been a wave of SHORT-TAILED?SHEARWATER (Puffinus tenuirostris) claims in Britain just recently and I would like to know if there are any confirmed records of this species in the North Atlantic at all, particularly along the Eastern Seaboard. It seems a very unlikely vagrant to me. ? NORMAL DISTRIBUTION ? After breeding, Short-tailed Shearwaters migrate to the north Pacific Ocean where they winter in huge numbers off of the Aleutian Islands, with much smaller numbers in the Bering Sea and Gulf of Alaska. The Alaskan birds depart in September moving south to the Californian coast?during October to February. ? Best wishes ? Lee G R Evans British Birding Association UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and Conservationist Keep up with Lee's daily exploits on his DIARY PAGE at http://thebirdingdiariesofleeevans.blogspot.com/ Discussion Forum/Email Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/ Rare Bird Alerts: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/ http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/ Email Address: LGREUK400 AT aol.com Website Address: www.uk400clubonline.co.uk Related Blog Sites: http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/ http://rarebirdsinthewesternpalearctic.blogspot.com/http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/ http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/ http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/ http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/ http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/ http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/ Chaffinch House 8 Sandycroft Road Little Chalfont Amersham Buckinghamshire England HP6 6QL Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157 Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629 (Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html = Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:21:13 -0700 On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:36:28 -0700, Alvaro Jaramillo wrote: > >But, here is a link to the South American Classification Committee's >proposal to add this species based on a specimen from Brazil (unfortunately >the link is broken to the photo). The link is good, but there is a typo. It should be... LIMA, P. C. 2006. Aves do Litoral Norte da Bahia. Birds of the northern Coastal region of Bahia. Available on: http://www.ao.com.br/download/lnbahia.pdf The color photo of the Short-tailed Shearwater is on page 369. The paper is a large 28MB download. On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:59:46 -0700, Andrew Kratter wrote: > >The specimen Alvaro mentioned (UF 41873) was found alive 7 July 2000 40 km west of Sanibel Island >(Florida) in the Gulf of Mexico. It died at a rehab clinic and the specimen is now at the Florida >Museum of Natural History. I can send a pdf if anyone wants of the paper (Kratter & Steadman, 2003. >North American Birds 57: 277-27).. This paper is also available online: http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/NAB/v057n02/p00277-p00279.pdf It includes photos of spread wings showing the underwing. -- Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu SF Birding Classes start Sep 14 http://fog.ccsf.edu/jmorlan/ California Bird Records Committee http://www.californiabirds.org/ Western Field Ornithologists http://www.westernfieldornithologists.org/ Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required From: Bruce H Anderson <Scizortail AT AOL.COM> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:54:06 EDT Hi, all. There is a specimen from Florida, originally found alive at Sanibel Island, Lee Co., (Gulf coast), 7 July 2000. The specimen resides in the Florida Museum of Natural History in Gainesville. See Kratter, A. W., T. Webber, T. Taylor, and D. W. Steadman. 2002. New specimen-based records of Florida birds. Bulletin of the Florida Museum of Natural History 43:111-161. Bruce Bruce H. Anderson member, Florida Ornithological Society Records Committee associate editor (for bird distribution), FOS "Florida Field Naturalist" regional coeditor, Florida region, "North American Birds" coeditor, Florida, "American Birds Christmas Bird Count" 2917 Scarlet Road Winter Park, FL 32792 407-671-3137 scizortail AT aol.com Florida Ornithological Society http://fosbirds.org Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required From: Andrew Kratter <kratter AT FLMNH.UFL.EDU> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:59:46 -0700 The specimen Alvaro mentioned (UF 41873) was found alive 7 July 2000 40 km west of Sanibel Island (Florida) in the Gulf of Mexico. It died at a rehab clinic and the specimen is now at the Florida Museum of Natural History. I can send a pdf if anyone wants of the paper (Kratter & Steadman, 2003. North American Birds 57: 277-27).. Andy Kratter Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required From: Steven Mlodinow <sgmlod AT AOL.COM> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:34:18 -0400 Greetings Lee and others I can not speak to North American Atlantic Coast records of ST Shearwater, though I seem to remember one, but could be wrong. I also seem to remember an east coast (North America) Buller's Shearwater record. Perhaps equally importantly is that Manx Shearwater seems to be in process of colonizing the ne. Pacific, Greater Shearwaters have been seen >10 times off California/Oregon/Washington/British Columbia (or nearly 10 times), and that a Cory's Shearwater spent a summer (built a nest???) off NW Baja California. So, it seems to me that these southern ocean shearwaters are not only capable of, but likely to rarely occur in the "wrong" ocean during the non-breeding season. Cheers Steve Mlodinow -----Original Message----- From: Lee G R Evans To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, Aug 27, 2010 8:14 am Subject: [BIRDWG01] SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required There has been a wave of SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER (Puffinus tenuirostris) claims in Britain just recently and I would like to know if there are any confirmed records of this species in the North Atlantic at all, particularly along the Eastern Seaboard. It seems a very unlikely vagrant to me. NORMAL DISTRIBUTION After breeding, Short-tailed Shearwaters migrate to the north Pacific Ocean where they winter in huge numbers off of the Aleutian Islands, with much smaller numbers in the Bering Sea and Gulf of Alaska. The Alaskan birds depart in September moving south to the Californian coast during October to February. Best wishes Lee G R Evans British Birding Association UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and Conservationist Keep up with Lee's daily exploits on his DIARY PAGE at http://thebirdingdiariesofleeevans.blogspot.com/ Discussion Forum/Email Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/ Rare Bird Alerts: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/ http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/ Email Address: LGREUK400 AT aol.com Website Address: www.uk400clubonline.co.uk Related Blog Sites: http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/ http://rarebirdsinthewesternpalearctic.blogspot.com/http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/ http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/ http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/ http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/ http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/ http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/ Chaffinch House 8 Sandycroft Road Little Chalfont Amersham Buckinghamshire England HP6 6QL Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157 Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629 (Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao AT COASTSIDE.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:36:28 -0700 Yikes, I better get off this thing..it's making me feel weird. But, here is a link to the South American Classification Committee's proposal to add this species based on a specimen from Brazil (unfortunately the link is broken to the photo). Also look at the references for Andy Kratter's paper on a specimen from the Gulf of Mexico, and Ned Brinkley's sight record. Since this species likes cold water any Atlantic bird will eventually make its way to the North Atlantic is my guess. By the way, a White-chinned Petrel was photographed off Maine just a few days ago! Anything is possible. http://www.museum.lsu.edu/~Remsen/SACCprop428.html Curiously there are no good records of the species from Pacific South America, obviously overlooked but when you have millions and millions of Sooties to work through to find one, you end up looking for white-bellied species instead. Regards, Alvaro Alvaro Jaramillo chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide www.fieldguides.com _____ From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee G R Evans Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 8:15 AM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDWG01] SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required There has been a wave of SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER (Puffinus tenuirostris) claims in Britain just recently and I would like to know if there are any confirmed records of this species in the North Atlantic at all, particularly along the Eastern Seaboard. It seems a very unlikely vagrant to me. NORMAL DISTRIBUTION After breeding, Short-tailed Shearwaters migrate to the north Pacific Ocean where they winter in huge numbers off of the Aleutian Islands, with much smaller numbers in the Bering Sea and Gulf of Alaska. The Alaskan birds depart in September moving south to the Californian coast during October to February. Best wishes Lee G R Evans British Birding Association UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and Conservationist Keep up with Lee's daily exploits on his DIARY PAGE at http://thebirdingdiariesofleeevans.blogspot.com/ Discussion Forum/Email Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/ Rare Bird Alerts: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA / http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/ Email Address: LGREUK400 AT aol.com Website Address: www.uk400clubonline.co.uk Related Blog Sites: http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/ http://rarebirdsinthewesternpalearctic.blogspot.com/http://birdingamersham.b logspot.com/ http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/ http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/ http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/ http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/ http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/ Chaffinch House 8 Sandycroft Road Little Chalfont Amersham Buckinghamshire England HP6 6QL Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157 Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629 (Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird From: "Kevin J. McGowan" <kjm2 AT CORNELL.EDU> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:32:27 -0400 When I glanced at the first shot I was fooled by the overexposure. To me it looked too pure white, more like a partial albino rather than any normal white bird. That plus its stance and feeding action made me think abnormal White-rump. But, after reviewing the plumage of the bird I agree with the Sanderling camp. Sanderlings up to their belly in water is nothing new around here. In fact, my son and I had just been commenting two days ago while scanning the mudflats at Montezuma NWR, that the Sanderlings were preferring the deeper water. Seemed odd to find them out with the phalaropes, but all 4 were doing it. One of the things that is causing problems with the feel of this bird is that it is hot. It is compressing its body feathers tight to its body and has its wings slightly out. This action makes its legs and neck look longer and give it a more similar appearance to the White-rump, which is doing the same thing. It was interesting looking at the comparison photos that people have suggested, with all those cute little round, cold, shorebirds. Kevin -- Kevin J. McGowan Ithaca, NY Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby AT TI.COM> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:31:24 -0500 Lee: I wouldn't agree that ST Shearwater is that a very unlikely vagrant to the UK. We have had Great and Cory's Shearwaters off California and Buller's Shearwater has occurred off New Jersey. Short-tailed Shearwater is a very long-distance migrant. It is also very common and easy to overlook in areas where there are lots of Sooty Shearwaters. It could reach the UK a couple of ways: 1. Joining in with a movement of Sooty Shearwaters that goes off into the Atlantic. 2. Heading through the Arctic ocean. This species occurs in large numbers N. of the Bering Straits in summer/autumn and could potentially drift E. or W. to the Atlantic. Also the majority of the population does not move south to California. It migrates back across the Pacific direct to breeding grounds. It is much less common off CA than AK. This last fact has no bearing on vagrancy to the UK of course. Having said all this, I think this is a pretty hard ID. There is a good chance that a number of the touted id features may be subject to more variation than realized since they have only become widely known the last few years. Also the fact that most seabirds are seen from land in the UK means the chances of having one sitting by a boat for an hour for prolonged study and photographs is less likely. Nick ________________________________ From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee G R Evans Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 8:15 AM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDWG01] SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required There has been a wave of SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER (Puffinus tenuirostris) claims in Britain just recently and I would like to know if there are any confirmed records of this species in the North Atlantic at all, particularly along the Eastern Seaboard. It seems a very unlikely vagrant to me. NORMAL DISTRIBUTION After breeding, Short-tailed Shearwaters migrate to the north Pacific Ocean where they winter in huge numbers off of the Aleutian Islands, with much smaller numbers in the Bering Sea and Gulf of Alaska. The Alaskan birds depart in September moving south to the Californian coast during October to February. Best wishes Lee G R Evans British Birding Association UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and Conservationist Keep up with Lee's daily exploits on his DIARY PAGE at http://thebirdingdiariesofleeevans.blogspot.com/ Discussion Forum/Email Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/ Rare Bird Alerts: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/ http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/ Email Address: LGREUK400 AT aol.com Website Address: www.uk400clubonline.co.uk Related Blog Sites: http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/ http://rarebirdsinthewesternpalearctic.blogspot.com/http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/ http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/ http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/ http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/ http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/ http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/ Chaffinch House 8 Sandycroft Road Little Chalfont Amersham Buckinghamshire England HP6 6QL Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157 Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629 (Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER occurrences - help required From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:14:59 EDT There has been a wave of SHORT-TAILED SHEARWATER (Puffinus tenuirostris) claims in Britain just recently and I would like to know if there are any confirmed records of this species in the North Atlantic at all, particularly along the Eastern Seaboard. It seems a very unlikely vagrant to me. NORMAL DISTRIBUTION After breeding, Short-tailed Shearwaters migrate to the north Pacific Ocean where they winter in huge numbers off of the Aleutian Islands, with much smaller numbers in the Bering Sea and Gulf of Alaska. The Alaskan birds depart in September moving south to the Californian coast during October to February. Best wishes Lee G R Evans British Birding Association UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and Conservationist Keep up with Lee's daily exploits on his DIARY PAGE at http://thebirdingdiariesofleeevans.blogspot.com/ Discussion Forum/Email Group: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/) Rare Bird Alerts: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/) _http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/_ (http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/) Email Address: LGREUK400 AT aol.com Website Address: _www.uk400clubonline.co.uk_ (http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/) Related Blog Sites: _http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/_ (http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/) _ http://rarebirdsinthewesternpalearctic.blogspot.com/http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/_ (http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/) _ http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/_ (http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/) _http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/_ (http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/) _http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/_ (http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/) _http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/_ (http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/) _http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/_ (http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/) Chaffinch House 8 Sandycroft Road Little Chalfont Amersham Buckinghamshire England HP6 6QL Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157 Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629 (Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders) Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird From: DJ Lauten and KACastelein <deweysage AT VERIZON.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:05:49 -0700 Ok, you folks are convincing me. I just think that the second bird in the second shot has a similar bill, blackish primaries, leg length, and primary projection. But as I said last night, I don't normally like to stick my neck out, because I find these 1-2 photograph birds to be difficult to assess. If I saw a video or this bird in real life, maybe I would quickly say 'that's a Sanderling'. I must admit, in the first shot there is nothing to compare the bird to, so size and shape are not that easy to assess. Cheers Dave Lauten Bandon OR deweysage AT verizon.net Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby AT TI.COM> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:05:25 -0500 All: I got contacted by a birder from Tennessee who sent a photo of a Sanderling feeding belly deep in water and submerging its head. They regularly do this apparently at the sites this birder sees them. The bird also had a whopping primary projection. I also don't see why the bill is more wrong for Sanderling than it is for White-rumped or Pec. Nick ________________________________ From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Adriaens Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 5:27 AM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird I hope I am not repeating myself too much, but I remain unconvinced about such arguments like - Sanderlings do not feed joint-deep in water - Sanderlings do not submerge their heads - Sanderlings do not have long primary projection - Sanderlings do not have long tibia I have already given links to photographs that refute all this, and I can only hope that people have a look at them. Below, I present some more links. As for bill shape: Dave writes that bill looks too heavy for Sanderling, while Kevin thought it was too thin - so which one is it ? Since photographs are but split-second captures of the moment, as Kevin rightly pointed out, it may also be a good idea to look at some videos of foraging Sanderlings. In this one, for instance, note long tibia and, near the end of the video, bird wading with belly into water: http://ibc.lynxeds.com/video/sanderling-calidris-alba/birds-feeding-low-water Two more, which show birds with relatively long tibia + long primary projection + body consistently tilted forward: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8kxv3NJpXY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGBec5yfl7w Some photographs: up to belly in water + head submerged http://www.pbase.com/image/72937464 http://www.pbase.com/image/116644968 http://www.pbase.com/image/118776030 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/118856 head submerged http://www.pbase.com/image/97735104 up to belly in water (note: this one was easy. Lots of photographs that show Sanderlings foraging joint-deep in the water!) http://www.pbase.com/image/123369416 http://www.pbase.com/image/113089488 http://www.pbase.com/image/90731737 http://www.pbase.com/image/90348449 http://www.pbase.com/image/94029080 http://www.pbase.com/image/60565111 http://www.pbase.com/image/90348505 http://www.pbase.com/image/107564868 http://www.pbase.com/image/97405313 http://www.pbase.com/image/102843702 http://www.pbase.com/image/107564866 http://www.pbase.com/image/117138568 http://www.pbase.com/image/124006616 http://www.pbase.com/image/97465393 http://www.pbase.com/image/88853603 http://www.pbase.com/image/116644977 http://www.pbase.com/image/74450395 long tibia This bird's legs are in a similar position as in the Bolivian bird; note exposed tibia: http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1255032 Other examples: http://www.pbase.com/image/101451250 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=59315 long primary projection http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=147464 http://www.pbase.com/image/127485831 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=162537 body tilted forward http://www.pbase.com/dophoto/image/118375841 http://www.pbase.com/image/93447267 http://www.pbase.com/image/87015188 Sincerely, Peter Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Unusual Rosy-Finch From: Jacob Spendelow <redshank AT TRINGA.ORG> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:56:21 -0400 Thanks for some great input, Tony! I agree that the extent of the pink up onto the breast indicates Brown-capped. Also, agreed on the head pattern - the crown feathers on this bird have more gray and less brown than a typical Brown-caps, which may represent normal variation, but could also be explained by presence of some Gray-crowned or Black genes. However, it still looks overwhelmingly more like a Brown-capped crown, since both Gray-crowned and Black would show a cleaner gray in this area (less brown tones), and neither would show the black speckling, as you pointed out. The most anomalous characteristic of this bird, at least to my eye, is in the color of the breast, cheek, and upperparts. This bird is far darker and cooler-toned in these areas than a typical Brown-cap, appearing intermediate between Brown-capped and Black. Brown-caps are variable in this regard, but this bird seems far outside the normal range of variation, which can be seen when you compare it against a larger set of Brown-cap photos, available here: http://www.tringa.org/birds/8849_Brown-capped_Rosy-Finch.html Here's another link to the bird in question: http://www.tringa.org/bird_pictures/884X_Hybrid_Rosy-Finch_03-19-2010.jpg Hybrids between Black and Gray-crowned (tephrocotis) in Idaho and Montana have been described as looking similar to Gray-crowned, but darker overall due to the presence of Black genes. This bird looks similar to Brown-capped, but darker overall - possibly due to Black genes? Or is it just an aberrant Brown-capped? I'd like to read your article - is it available online? Thanks! Jacob >Jacob et al.: > >First off, spectacular picture! > >The extensive pink on the underparts is certainly indicative of Brown-capp= >ed and I would consider it to be a Brown-capped Rosy-Finch. However, it= > appears to be one of the not-inconsequential percentage of adult males wi= >th a Gray-crowned-like head pattern. I wrote an article on this subject= > for Colorado Birds a while ago. The typical crown pattern of Brown-cappe= >d is indistinct, with a black forehead (as for all adult male rosies) and= > with the crown feathers becoming more extensively gray as one progresses= > from front to back producing an appearance of the crown grading in color= > from black to gray, front to back. However, something like 5% of adult= > male Brown-cappeds have these crown feathers with more gray than usual cr= >eating the Gray-crowned-like crown pattern (one can see the black bases to= > most of the crown feathers on the bird in question -- something that neit= >her Gray-crowned, nor Black exhibit. Such birds also sport the colder bro= >wn underparts and extensive pink belly typical of Brown-capped and differi= >ng from those aspects in Gray-crowned (and Black). I suspect that these= > are older males, as they have been nearly uniformly among the brighter an= >d most striking of adult male Brown-cappeds that I have seen, banded, and= > photographed in Colorado where I have been studying the three rosy specie= >s since the late 1990s. > >This is a group that does not see much traffic on ID Frontiers, presumably= > because so few birders actually have extensive experience with the specie= >s. So, it's nice to see a post on these most wonderful of passerines! > >Tony Leukering >Villas, NJ Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Bolivian shorebird From: julian hough <jrhough1 AT SNET.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 06:54:51 -0700 I think most observers have commented well on this bird, and I agree with those that think it's a Sanderling. Photos, as we have all seen in the past week, can really throw you off and when the lighting or photo has captured a stance that may not be indicative of the species shown. Such images can lead you down the proverbial wormhole. The two features that I sort of latched on to are the bill - quite Sanderling-like to me, but also the eye, which is proportionately large - White-rumped's to me always have a smaller eye, proportionate to the head (Glaucous vs Iceland Gulls, if that's not too much of an analogy!) which this bird seems to lack. Hard to comment to much on plumage, but Peter A. comments made earlier seem hard to refute or add to. If those grey upper scaps coming in are new, then they are pale and typically Sanderling-like and I don't think that these feather patterns could be matched by a first-winter White-rumped. I certainly agree that the shape and amount of primary exposure in the images are initially suggestive of WRSA, but think that plumage here seems the less-seductive path to take. Man, you almost wish someone would start posting gull photos at this point :) Julian Hough, CT, USA ________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- >From: Lethaby, Nick >To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU >Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:56 AM >Subject: [BIRDWG01] Bolivian shorebird > > >All: > >While this bird does look odd in some ways for a Sanderling, I checked the >web out a bit and found several Sanderling that seem to show a pretty decent >primary projection. For example, scroll down to the second last photo entered >for the August 26 entry on: > >http://bbfo.blogspot.com/ > >Also, it’s possible it looks odd because it can’t behave like a Sanderling at >this location. I would be interested in other people’s experience with >Sanderlings at inland sites at the US . I saw a couple in OR but it was >18 years ago and I can’t remember what their behavior was like. Has anyone >seen one wading and feeding in water like this? > >Nick Lethaby >nlethaby AT ti.com >+1 805 562 5106 > >Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 >Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird From: Steven Mlodinow <sgmlod AT AOL.COM> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:41:05 -0400 Greetings All Birds sometimes act weird. I've seen Least Sandpipers stand upright and feed like a Pec (falsely encouraging hopes of LT Stint); that is the example that immediately comes to mind, but I am sure I could think of a few others pretty quickly. When I first looked at the photos, I thought, aberrant WRSA/PESA, etc. However, the fact that the black on the wings precisely mimics that of a Sanderling would seem quite unlikely in an aberrant individual of another species. I have photos of Sanderlings with similar primary projection (many) and bill length (a couple). So 1) an aberrant (pick your species) that happens to have markings that match Sanderling very closely 2) or an out-of-range Sanderling feeding in unusual habitat and thus exhibiting unusual behavior Those are really the choices. Number 2 seems far more likely to me. Best Wishes Steve Mlodinow -----Original Message----- From: Pierre-André CROCHET To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:33 am Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird I just showed the pics to one of my French birder friend who is well-experiencedwith waders (F Veyrunes). He immediately (less than 1 sec) identified it asSanderling (I had not suggested anything!). His second comment was “a bit long billed”. I agree, many Sanderlings have shorter bills. But some also(see Peter’s links) have exactly identical bill. I’ll stop here, can’t really add anything (but support) to Peter’smessages. Pierre Pierre-AndréCrochet CNRS-UMR5175 Centre d'Ecologie Fonctionnelle et Evolutive 1919,route de Mende 34293Montpellier cedex 5 France tel:+ 33 6 07 32 60 75 (mobile) + 33 4 67 61 32 98 (office) fax:+ 33 4 67 41 21 38 De : NBHC ID-FRONTIERSFrontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] Dela part de Peter Adriaens Envoyé : vendredi 27 août 2010 14:27 À : BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird I hope I am not repeating myself too much, but I remainunconvinced about such arguments like - Sanderlings do not feed joint-deep in water - Sanderlings do not submerge their heads - Sanderlings do not have long primary projection - Sanderlings do not have long tibia I have already given links to photographs that refute all this, and I can onlyhope that people have a look at them. Below, I present some more links. As for bill shape: Dave writes that bill looks too heavy for Sanderling, whileKevin thought it was too thin - so which one is it ? Since photographs are but split-second captures of the moment, as Kevin rightlypointed out, it may also be a good idea to look at some videos of foragingSanderlings. In this one, for instance, note long tibia and, near the end of the video, birdwading with belly into water: http://ibc.lynxeds.com/video/sanderling-calidris-alba/birds-feeding-low-water Two more, which show birds with relatively long tibia + long primary projection+ body consistently tilted forward: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8kxv3NJpXY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGBec5yfl7w Some photographs: up to belly in water + head submerged http://www.pbase.com/image/72937464 http://www.pbase.com/image/116644968 http://www.pbase.com/image/118776030 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/118856 head submerged http://www.pbase.com/image/97735104 up to belly in water (note: this one was easy. Lots of photographs that showSanderlings foraging joint-deep in the water!) http://www.pbase.com/image/123369416 http://www.pbase.com/image/113089488 http://www.pbase.com/image/90731737 http://www.pbase.com/image/90348449 http://www.pbase.com/image/94029080 http://www.pbase.com/image/60565111 http://www.pbase.com/image/90348505 http://www.pbase.com/image/107564868 http://www.pbase.com/image/97405313 http://www.pbase.com/image/102843702 http://www.pbase.com/image/107564866 http://www.pbase.com/image/117138568 http://www.pbase.com/image/124006616 http://www.pbase.com/image/97465393 http://www.pbase.com/image/88853603 http://www.pbase.com/image/116644977 http://www.pbase.com/image/74450395 long tibia This bird's legs are in a similar position as in the Bolivian bird; noteexposed tibia: http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1255032 Other examples: http://www.pbase.com/image/101451250 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=59315 long primary projection http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=147464 http://www.pbase.com/image/127485831 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=162537 body tilted forward http://www.pbase.com/dophoto/image/118375841 http://www.pbase.com/image/93447267 http://www.pbase.com/image/87015188 Sincerely, Peter Join or Leave BIRDWG01:http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird From: Pierre-Andr� CROCHET <pierre-andre.crochet AT CEFE.CNRS.FR> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:33:28 +0200 I just showed the pics to one of my French birder friend who is well-experienced with waders (F Veyrunes). He immediately (less than 1 sec) identified it as Sanderling (I had not suggested anything!). His second comment was "a bit long billed". I agree, many Sanderlings have shorter bills. But some also (see Peter's links) have exactly identical bill. I'll stop here, can't really add anything (but support) to Peter's messages. Pierre Pierre-Andr� Crochet CNRS-UMR 5175 Centre d'Ecologie Fonctionnelle et Evolutive 1919, route de Mende 34293 Montpellier cedex 5 France tel: + 33 6 07 32 60 75 (mobile) + 33 4 67 61 32 98 (office) fax: + 33 4 67 41 21 38 De : NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] De la part de Peter Adriaens Envoy� : vendredi 27 ao�t 2010 14:27 � : BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird I hope I am not repeating myself too much, but I remain unconvinced about such arguments like - Sanderlings do not feed joint-deep in water - Sanderlings do not submerge their heads - Sanderlings do not have long primary projection - Sanderlings do not have long tibia I have already given links to photographs that refute all this, and I can only hope that people have a look at them. Below, I present some more links. As for bill shape: Dave writes that bill looks too heavy for Sanderling, while Kevin thought it was too thin - so which one is it ? Since photographs are but split-second captures of the moment, as Kevin rightly pointed out, it may also be a good idea to look at some videos of foraging Sanderlings. In this one, for instance, note long tibia and, near the end of the video, bird wading with belly into water: http://ibc.lynxeds.com/video/sanderling-calidris-alba/birds-feeding-low-water Two more, which show birds with relatively long tibia + long primary projection + body consistently tilted forward: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8kxv3NJpXY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGBec5yfl7w Some photographs: up to belly in water + head submerged http://www.pbase.com/image/72937464 http://www.pbase.com/image/116644968 http://www.pbase.com/image/118776030 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/118856 head submerged http://www.pbase.com/image/97735104 up to belly in water (note: this one was easy. Lots of photographs that show Sanderlings foraging joint-deep in the water!) http://www.pbase.com/image/123369416 http://www.pbase.com/image/113089488 http://www.pbase.com/image/90731737 http://www.pbase.com/image/90348449 http://www.pbase.com/image/94029080 http://www.pbase.com/image/60565111 http://www.pbase.com/image/90348505 http://www.pbase.com/image/107564868 http://www.pbase.com/image/97405313 http://www.pbase.com/image/102843702 http://www.pbase.com/image/107564866 http://www.pbase.com/image/117138568 http://www.pbase.com/image/124006616 http://www.pbase.com/image/97465393 http://www.pbase.com/image/88853603 http://www.pbase.com/image/116644977 http://www.pbase.com/image/74450395 long tibia This bird's legs are in a similar position as in the Bolivian bird; note exposed tibia: http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1255032 Other examples: http://www.pbase.com/image/101451250 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=59315 long primary projection http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=147464 http://www.pbase.com/image/127485831 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=162537 body tilted forward http://www.pbase.com/dophoto/image/118375841 http://www.pbase.com/image/93447267 http://www.pbase.com/image/87015188 Sincerely, Peter Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird From: Peter Adriaens <p_adriaens AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 05:27:05 -0700 I hope I am not repeating myself too much, but I remain unconvinced about such arguments like - Sanderlings do not feed joint-deep in water - Sanderlings do not submerge their heads - Sanderlings do not have long primary projection - Sanderlings do not have long tibia I have already given links to photographs that refute all this, and I can only hope that people have a look at them. Below, I present some more links. As for bill shape: Dave writes that bill looks too heavy for Sanderling, while Kevin thought it was too thin - so which one is it ? Since photographs are but split-second captures of the moment, as Kevin rightly pointed out, it may also be a good idea to look at some videos of foraging Sanderlings. In this one, for instance, note long tibia and, near the end of the video, bird wading with belly into water: http://ibc.lynxeds.com/video/sanderling-calidris-alba/birds-feeding-low-water Two more, which show birds with relatively long tibia + long primary projection + body consistently tilted forward: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8kxv3NJpXY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGBec5yfl7w Some photographs: up to belly in water + head submerged http://www.pbase.com/image/72937464 http://www.pbase.com/image/116644968 http://www.pbase.com/image/118776030 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/118856 head submerged http://www.pbase.com/image/97735104 up to belly in water (note: this one was easy. Lots of photographs that show Sanderlings foraging joint-deep in the water!) http://www.pbase.com/image/123369416 http://www.pbase.com/image/113089488 http://www.pbase.com/image/90731737 http://www.pbase.com/image/90348449 http://www.pbase.com/image/94029080 http://www.pbase.com/image/60565111 http://www.pbase.com/image/90348505 http://www.pbase.com/image/107564868 http://www.pbase.com/image/97405313 http://www.pbase.com/image/102843702 http://www.pbase.com/image/107564866 http://www.pbase.com/image/117138568 http://www.pbase.com/image/124006616 http://www.pbase.com/image/97465393 http://www.pbase.com/image/88853603 http://www.pbase.com/image/116644977 http://www.pbase.com/image/74450395 long tibia This bird's legs are in a similar position as in the Bolivian bird; note exposed tibia: http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1255032 Other examples: http://www.pbase.com/image/101451250 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=59315 long primary projection http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=147464 http://www.pbase.com/image/127485831 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=162537 body tilted forward http://www.pbase.com/dophoto/image/118375841 http://www.pbase.com/image/93447267 http://www.pbase.com/image/87015188 Sincerely, Peter Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question From: Phil Jeffrey <phil.jeffrey AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 07:22:11 -0400 For me, this thread nicely encapsulates some of the issues of recent threads that we have discussed: 1. individual photos can be deceptive 2. in many cases it's simply not possible to be definitive 3. detailed arguments can prove anything if you try hard enough - particularly ones about structure and behavior 4. we need to solicit more information from the observers who were there at the time especially concerning structure I don't *know* what this bird is, but I *think* it's a Sanderling. Why? 1. Plumage: the first shot is quite overexposed, making the bird look monochrome, but it is really just pale. The second photo (less overexposed) shows something that goes against any White-rumped Sandpiper plumage I'm aware of: the mottled wedge on the side of the breast. Why would a leucistic White-rumped show this feature ?? But Sanderling certainly does, and the wedge persists in basic plumage. The darker crown relative to the face also makes me think Sanderling. 2. Structure: if it's made it to all the way to Bolivia in November I'd conjecture that this is the least dumpy a Sanderling is likely to get. The bill appears thick and straight (more Sanderling than White-rumped or Pectoral). The head appears more boxy with a stronger forehead angle. Compare to the White-rumped on the left of the second photo: the bill on the White-rumped is curved and the bird appears slimmer. But this is not a very good comparison because of different angles. On average from checking my photos: Sanderling bills average thicker and straighter, but there is overlap with White-rumped on both. On curvature I'd put Pectoral > White-rumped > Sanderling. On average the Sanderling head is squarer with that pronounced forehead, whereas White-rumped tends to be more rounded. Again I could find exceptions to this generalization, and if the head on the shorebird is wet, it might just look like that anyway. On behavior: I've seen Sanderling up to their belly in water: http://www.flickr.com/photos/phil-jeffrey/4931239435/ Ironically this is a flat-backed Sanderling, although it's bulking up on crab eggs in NJ in May, but look at the head shape and bill. Since a Sanderling bill is usually < leg length I assume it was face down in the water at some point but I don't keep those photos. This photo was taken in a situation where the Sanderling could have fed on the beach if it preferred to. White-rumped Sandpiper for comparison: http://www.flickr.com/photos/phil-jeffrey/4931830512/ (mainly for head shape and bill comparisons, since these were shot at different times of year) Since I'm a fan of acknowledging the probabilistic nature of bird ID: this is *probably* a Sanderling, at least to my eyes. Phil Jeffrey NJ Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird - correction From: norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:03:46 +0200 There is one more thing ofcourse: the primary projection of the Bolivian sandpiper is wrong (i.e. too long) for Sanderling! Cheers, Norman Pierre-Andre Crochet wrote: >I'm fully with Peter A on this one! Sanderling are very variable in "jizz", with many birds having a long-winged, attenuated body that even make them a pitfall for adult Baird's in Europe. Now, back with the Bolivian bird: the plumage is quite like a 1yc Sanderling. On plumage alone, there isn't much at odd with an overexposed pic of a pale exemple of worn 1cy Sanderling. The contrast between rufous scaps and cold/pale wing is typical of 1cy Sanderling, as is the pale face, the dark wing bend, and many other plumage features. If someone spots a plumage feature that seem wrong for Sanderling, please let us know. Putting all weight on structure / jizz /impression when plumage seems so conclusive seems a bit strange given the notorious difficulties of assessing a bird's structure on a single or small number of pics. As Peter A's links amply illustrate, Sanderling can indeed look very similar in term of jizz to the bird in question. By the way, the bill shape and head profile seem off for White-rumped. So, a White-rumped with so many plumage anomalies that no one has ever seen a WR like that, or a rather typical Sanderling in a slightly untypical situation? Having seen Sanderling feed among other Calidrids in the Camargue so often, my choice is simple!!! Pierre-Andr� Crochet CNRS-UMR 5175 Centre d'Ecologie Fonctionnelle et Evolutive 1919, route de Mende 34293 Montpellier cedex 5 France tel: + 33 6 07 32 60 75 (mobile) + 33 4 67 61 32 98 (office) fax: + 33 4 67 41 21 38 De : NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] De la part de Peter Adriaens Envoy� : vendredi 27 ao�t 2010 04:54 � : BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird - correction Apologies. The first link I gave is not the correct one (I think it even shows a Little Stint...). Wanted to use this one instead: http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/48281434 Peter ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Peter Adriaens To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 4:38:16 AM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question I must say I am a bit surprised by the controversy caused by what I initially took for a straightforward Sanderling. While I certainly have nowhere near as good a feeling for body shape and structure as Kevin's and perhaps place too much importance on plumage, I do believe that Sanderlings are notoriously variable in these traits, depending on the habitat and condition in which they are found. There is certainly a big difference when it comes to first impression between the familiar Sanderlings nervously running around on the beach like dinky toys, and the occasional bird that is seen far inland, feeding leisurely on its own. I do think that Sanderlings can occasionally tip forward strongly, with the the tail pointed towards the sky and/or the head submerged. I guess it is just a matter of how deep the water is, how hungry the bird, and how deeply it has to probe for prey. On the beach, you often see them probing deeply into the sand, and when they have a bit of difficulty getting the prey out, they may tilt their whole body for 45� or more. Likewise, tibia length is a bit variable too. I agree it is usually very short and almost completely feathered, but some birds show quite a long, unfeathered tibia. It may be the usual scenario: a bird in hot weather will look longer-legged than a bird on the beach on a cold winter day. Quite a few birds show a massive primary projection, or at least long enough to make a White-rumped Sandpiper jealous! When Sanderlings are seen well inland on a warm spring or summer day, they often look like this (and may confuse some observers): http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/43365065 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/49355 (Note body shape, exposed tibia, and so on in these birds). A few birds tipping forward, or with head submerged: http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/118856 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/257222 Some more photographs, illustrating variation in primary projection, rear body, neck length, bill shape, tibia length, body shape, etc: http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=147464 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=219537 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=110376 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=196576 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188971 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188525 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=171778 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=162537 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=149576 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=108823 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=59315 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=39003 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1461071 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1419725 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1255032 If the Bolivian bird really is no Sanderling, I think it sure does a good job impersonating one, with that pale plumage, black wing bend and broad white wing bar. Kind regards, Peter ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Kevin Karlson To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 12:36:31 AM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Alan and all: This seems to be a period of unusual photos of shorebirds, and yours is no exception. The first impression given is Sanderling, with the plumage being somewhat consistent with that species, but the body and bill shapes are not consistent with Sanderling, which is a dumpy bird overall that has a more forshortened body structure and lacks the obvious attenuated rear body shape of this bird, not to mention a uniformly thicker bill, larger head and shorter neck. Sanderling also lacks the noticeable primary projection of this bird, including the distance from the longest tertial. Adult Sanderlings have primaries that only extend slightly past the longest tertial, but some first year birds show more primary projection for their first life year, but nowhere near as pronounced as this bird. Sanderling also shows very little exposed tibia, which adds to its short legged appearance and quick stepping behavior, but the second photo of this bird shows a good amount of exposed tibia and a longer-legged look than Sanderling has. Another problem with Sanderling is the tipping posture this bird is exhibiting when it feeds. Its tail is tipping towards the sky on this feeding bird, and its head is submerged. I know these are not the typical field marks that birders are used to when identifying birds, but Sanderling does not feed in this fashion, preferring to pick and probe for its food, and occasionally feeding in deeper water, but not with its head submerged and not with its body tipping upwards. This is directly related to its body structure of short legs and compact body shape, and when a Sanderling leans over to feed, its short legs do not enable the compact body to tip. This tipping behavior is a reliable feature that we use to pick White-rumps out in a crowd of other smallish calidrids, which is a similar trait for Stilt Sandpiper, and both of these species regularly submerge their heads under water while feeding. I agree with Peter Pyle that the first photo seems to suggest Pectoral in body shape, proportional head size and elongation of the body and wings, and I would probably guess Pectoral from this one photo if the bird were in full silhouette. However, the second photo that shows it feeding suggests White-rumped in body posture, shape and neck length compared to the other White-rumped in the background, with the unique tipping feeding behavior clearly illustrated. I am not going to strongly endorse any species on this oddly patterned bird that suggests Sanderling, especially the dark wing bend marking, but the second photo certainly suggests White-rumped in comparative size, shape and body structure, especially the long wings and attenuated body shape. I know that many birders have a hard time evaluating subtle, and even obvious, body shape and structural body parts differences, since we have been taught to primarily analyze field marks and plumage details to reach an ID conclusion, but shorebirds are notorious for showing a variety of inconsistent plumage conditions due to age, molt and transition states, and many of these appearances don't conform to the "expected" views. This is an instance where an evaluation of body shape and structure is more reliable than trying to make sense out of a plumage that normally does not exist with whatever species this is. Another problem is the split second capture of a photo that often puts a bird in a posture that is misleading rather than helpful. Like I said earlier, the first photo in silhouette would trigger an intuitive recognition of a Pectoral Sandpiper body profile, while the second photo really suggests White-rumped. I don't think that the bird is a Pectoral, however, with the super attenuated rear body in the second photo contrary to their body profile, and the tipping feeding behavior in deep water outside their normal repetoire of foraging styles. I would throw my hat in the White-rumped camp based on the comparative view with the other White-rumped in normal plumage. Kevin Karlson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kneidel" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Hello folks, In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a shorebird seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of Trinidad) in November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several White-rumped Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a shallow freshwater lagoon. http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all that being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped Sandpiper? juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts would be appreciated... Cheers, -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird - correction From: Pierre-Andr� CROCHET <pierre-andre.crochet AT CEFE.CNRS.FR> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:18:11 +0200 I'm fully with Peter A on this one! Sanderling are very variable in "jizz", with many birds having a long-winged, attenuated body that even make them a pitfall for adult Baird's in Europe. Now, back with the Bolivian bird: the plumage is quite like a 1yc Sanderling. On plumage alone, there isn't much at odd with an overexposed pic of a pale exemple of worn 1cy Sanderling. The contrast between rufous scaps and cold/pale wing is typical of 1cy Sanderling, as is the pale face, the dark wing bend, and many other plumage features. If someone spots a plumage feature that seem wrong for Sanderling, please let us know... Putting all weight on structure / jizz /impression when plumage seems so conclusive seems a bit strange given the notorious difficulties of assessing a bird's structure on a single or small number of pics. As Peter A's links amply illustrate, Sanderling can indeed look very similar in term of jizz to the bird in question. By the way, the bill shape and head profile seem off for White-rumped... So, a White-rumped with so many plumage anomalies that no one has ever seen a WR like that, or a rather typical Sanderling in a slightly untypical situation? Having seen Sanderling feed among other Calidrids in the Camargue so often, my choice is simple!!! Pierre Pierre-Andr� Crochet CNRS-UMR 5175 Centre d'Ecologie Fonctionnelle et Evolutive 1919, route de Mende 34293 Montpellier cedex 5 France tel: + 33 6 07 32 60 75 (mobile) + 33 4 67 61 32 98 (office) fax: + 33 4 67 41 21 38 De : NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] De la part de Peter Adriaens Envoy� : vendredi 27 ao�t 2010 04:54 � : BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird - correction Apologies. The first link I gave is not the correct one (I think it even shows a Little Stint...). Wanted to use this one instead: http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/48281434 Peter ________________________________ From: Peter Adriaens To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 4:38:16 AM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question I must say I am a bit surprised by the controversy caused by what I initially took for a straightforward Sanderling. While I certainly have nowhere near as good a feeling for body shape and structure as Kevin's and perhaps place too much importance on plumage, I do believe that Sanderlings are notoriously variable in these traits, depending on the habitat and condition in which they are found. There is certainly a big difference when it comes to first impression between the familiar Sanderlings nervously running around on the beach like dinky toys, and the occasional bird that is seen far inland, feeding leisurely on its own. I do think that Sanderlings can occasionally tip forward strongly, with the the tail pointed towards the sky and/or the head submerged. I guess it is just a matter of how deep the water is, how hungry the bird, and how deeply it has to probe for prey. On the beach, you often see them probing deeply into the sand, and when they have a bit of difficulty getting the prey out, they may tilt their whole body for 45� or more. Likewise, tibia length is a bit variable too. I agree it is usually very short and almost completely feathered, but some birds show quite a long, unfeathered tibia. It may be the usual scenario: a bird in hot weather will look longer-legged than a bird on the beach on a cold winter day. Quite a few birds show a massive primary projection, or at least long enough to make a White-rumped Sandpiper jealous! When Sanderlings are seen well inland on a warm spring or summer day, they often look like this (and may confuse some observers): http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/43365065 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/49355 (Note body shape, exposed tibia, and so on in these birds). A few birds tipping forward, or with head submerged: http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/118856 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/257222 Some more photographs, illustrating variation in primary projection, rear body, neck length, bill shape, tibia length, body shape, etc: http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=147464 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=219537 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=110376 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=196576 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188971 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188525 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=171778 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=162537 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=149576 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=108823 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=59315 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=39003 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1461071 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1419725 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1255032 If the Bolivian bird really is no Sanderling, I think it sure does a good job impersonating one, with that pale plumage, black wing bend and broad white wing bar. Kind regards, Peter ________________________________ From: Kevin Karlson To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 12:36:31 AM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Alan and all: This seems to be a period of unusual photos of shorebirds, and yours is no exception. The first impression given is Sanderling, with the plumage being somewhat consistent with that species, but the body and bill shapes are not consistent with Sanderling, which is a dumpy bird overall that has a more forshortened body structure and lacks the obvious attenuated rear body shape of this bird, not to mention a uniformly thicker bill, larger head and shorter neck. Sanderling also lacks the noticeable primary projection of this bird, including the distance from the longest tertial. Adult Sanderlings have primaries that only extend slightly past the longest tertial, but some first year birds show more primary projection for their first life year, but nowhere near as pronounced as this bird. Sanderling also shows very little exposed tibia, which adds to its short legged appearance and quick stepping behavior, but the second photo of this bird shows a good amount of exposed tibia and a longer-legged look than Sanderling has. Another problem with Sanderling is the tipping posture this bird is exhibiting when it feeds. Its tail is tipping towards the sky on this feeding bird, and its head is submerged. I know these are not the typical field marks that birders are used to when identifying birds, but Sanderling does not feed in this fashion, preferring to pick and probe for its food, and occasionally feeding in deeper water, but not with its head submerged and not with its body tipping upwards. This is directly related to its body structure of short legs and compact body shape, and when a Sanderling leans over to feed, its short legs do not enable the compact body to tip. This tipping behavior is a reliable feature that we use to pick White-rumps out in a crowd of other smallish calidrids, which is a similar trait for Stilt Sandpiper, and both of these species regularly submerge their heads under water while feeding. I agree with Peter Pyle that the first photo seems to suggest Pectoral in body shape, proportional head size and elongation of the body and wings, and I would probably guess Pectoral from this one photo if the bird were in full silhouette. However, the second photo that shows it feeding suggests White-rumped in body posture, shape and neck length compared to the other White-rumped in the background, with the unique tipping feeding behavior clearly illustrated. I am not going to strongly endorse any species on this oddly patterned bird that suggests Sanderling, especially the dark wing bend marking, but the second photo certainly suggests White-rumped in comparative size, shape and body structure, especially the long wings and attenuated body shape. I know that many birders have a hard time evaluating subtle, and even obvious, body shape and structural body parts differences, since we have been taught to primarily analyze field marks and plumage details to reach an ID conclusion, but shorebirds are notorious for showing a variety of inconsistent plumage conditions due to age, molt and transition states, and many of these appearances don't conform to the "expected" views. This is an instance where an evaluation of body shape and structure is more reliable than trying to make sense out of a plumage that normally does not exist with whatever species this is. Another problem is the split second capture of a photo that often puts a bird in a posture that is misleading rather than helpful. Like I said earlier, the first photo in silhouette would trigger an intuitive recognition of a Pectoral Sandpiper body profile, while the second photo really suggests White-rumped. I don't think that the bird is a Pectoral, however, with the super attenuated rear body in the second photo contrary to their body profile, and the tipping feeding behavior in deep water outside their normal repetoire of foraging styles. I would throw my hat in the White-rumped camp based on the comparative view with the other White-rumped in normal plumage. Kevin Karlson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kneidel" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Hello folks, In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a shorebird seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of Trinidad) in November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several White-rumped Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a shallow freshwater lagoon. http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all that being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped Sandpiper? juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts would be appreciated... Cheers, -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird From: norman.vanswelm AT WXS.NL Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:51:34 +0200 If this bird were be a Sanderling it could, given the location, belong to the race rubides which has a slightly longer bill than the short billed nominate race, a few pictures of rubides taken in California are available in Dennis Paulson's guide: 'Shorebirds of North America' . Pictures of Greenland/NE Canadian birds can be seen here, they also show Sanderling's typical feeding behaviour : http://www.radioactiverobins.com/snipes-waders/sanderling-calidris%20alba%20.htm http://www.radioactiverobins.com/snipes-waders/sanderlings%20in%20a%20storm.htm The Bolivian bird however is no Sanderling for the reasons given by by Pyle,Kevin and Dave, the crux is in the second picture where the tibia are shown which are too long for Sanderling and fine for White-rumped Sandpiper. How does one label it's curious plumage though? Leucistic? Cheers, Norman Dave Lauten wrote: >I don't normally do this, because I feel many of you are more experienced than me, and that makes me wary to stick my neck out, but I happen to work in an environment - the beach - where I see Sanderling literally everyday for about 6 months for the past 14 years. And all due respect to all, because many of you are friends of mine (Alvaro, Kevin, Julian...), but I don't see an obvious Sanderling here. When I first looked at the picture, I agree with Kevin, it doesn't look right for Sanderling. I'm not as savy as Kevin with his words, so I can't describe what I'm seeing so well, but the bill in particular looks too heavy for Sanderling. But what bugs me more, is the second picture. The bird in the upper left is nearly the same shape and size as the bird in question, and that's no Sanderling. I think this picture is deceiving, because the bird in question has its bill in the water, but I think it is a stretch to suggest that these two birds are not the same species, and one certainly is not a Sanderling. They are both long winged, thick billed shorebirds. I think this is an aberrant Pec or White-rumped Sand, and not a Sanderling. cheers Bandon OR deweysage AT verizon.net On 8/26/2010 9:16 PM, Alvaro Jaramillo wrote: Folks I am onboard with Sanderling, when Peter sent Pyle in his note I did worry particularly since I thought the photos was recent and a juvenile molting that far south right now seemed impossible. Then I realized that this was from late October (according to the site) a few years back, which makes perfect sense. Sanderling is hypothetical in Bolivia, so if the identification as a Sanderling is supported by the observer, this should be published. It is a very rare species in the interior of South America; I have seen it twice away from the ocean. Once on Nov 1, 2000 at Lago Pozuelos, Argentina (pretty close to Bolivia), and the other on Nov 4, 2008 at Laguna Negro Francisco, III Region, Chile. Both of these sites are way up high (over 4000m) in the Andes, and in both cases they were molting juveniles just like the Bolivia bird. It is striking how similar the dates are for these three, it would seem that these youngsters on their first flight south are the most likely to wind up inland away from the ocean. Both birds I saw were with Baird's Sandpiper, the expected peep in the Andes; White-rumps are absent from the Pacific and Andes but they are the expected peep east of the Andes at the latitude of Bolivia. The Andes are seemingly a formidable barrier, particularly for a largely coastal bird, but I have seen Red Phalaropes on the Argentine side of the Andes, as well as the Chilean side of the Andes. Franklin's Gulls regularly show up in southbound migration on the Argentine side of the Andes (they are coastal birds in South America, not an interior species). Birds that are east slope migrants do cross over to the west side on occasion as well, with several Upland Sandpiper records in Chile, and one recent record of Buff-breasted Sandpiper. Lots still to find out regarding South American bird migration, it is particularly fun now that we are getting more and more vagrant records from the south! I had a look at my Sanderling photos and they are pretty long winged buggers. I must admit I had never really thought about it, but they have pretty good primary extensions. This is not surprising given the huge distances many of them migrate. Regards, Alvaro Alvaro Jaramillo chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide www.fieldguides.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Adriaens Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 7:54 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird - correction Apologies. The first link I gave is not the correct one (I think it even shows a Little Stint...). Wanted to use this one instead: http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/48281434 Peter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Adriaens To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 4:38:16 AM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question I must say I am a bit surprised by the controversy caused by what I initially took for a straightforward Sanderling. While I certainly have nowhere near as good a feeling for body shape and structure as Kevin's and perhaps place too much importance on plumage, I do believe that Sanderlings are notoriously variable in these traits, depending on the habitat and condition in which they are found. There is certainly a big difference when it comes to first impression between the familiar Sanderlings nervously running around on the beach like dinky toys, and the occasional bird that is seen far inland, feeding leisurely on its own. I do think that Sanderlings can occasionally tip forward strongly, with the the tail pointed towards the sky and/or the head submerged. I guess it is just a matter of how deep the water is, how hungry the bird, and how deeply it has to probe for prey. On the beach, you often see them probing deeply into the sand, and when they have a bit of difficulty getting the prey out, they may tilt their whole body for 45� or more. Likewise, tibia length is a bit variable too. I agree it is usually very short and almost completely feathered, but some birds show quite a long, unfeathered tibia. It may be the usual scenario: a bird in hot weather will look longer-legged than a bird on the beach on a cold winter day. Quite a few birds show a massive primary projection, or at least long enough to make a White-rumped Sandpiper jealous! When Sanderlings are seen well inland on a warm spring or summer day, they often look like this (and may confuse some observers): http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/43365065 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/49355 (Note body shape, exposed tibia, and so on in these birds). A few birds tipping forward, or with head submerged: http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/118856 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/257222 Some more photographs, illustrating variation in primary projection, rear body, neck length, bill shape, tibia length, body shape, etc: http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=147464 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=219537 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=110376 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=196576 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188971 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188525 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=171778 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=162537 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=149576 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=108823 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=59315 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=39003 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1461071 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1419725 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1255032 If the Bolivian bird really is no Sanderling, I think it sure does a good job impersonating one, with that pale plumage, black wing bend and broad white wing bar. Kind regards, Peter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kevin Karlson To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 12:36:31 AM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Alan and all: This seems to be a period of unusual photos of shorebirds, and yours is no exception. The first impression given is Sanderling, with the plumage being somewhat consistent with that species, but the body and bill shapes are not consistent with Sanderling, which is a dumpy bird overall that has a more forshortened body structure and lacks the obvious attenuated rear body shape of this bird, not to mention a uniformly thicker bill, larger head and shorter neck. Sanderling also lacks the noticeable primary projection of this bird, including the distance from the longest tertial. Adult Sanderlings have primaries that only extend slightly past the longest tertial, but some first year birds show more primary projection for their first life year, but nowhere near as pronounced as this bird. Sanderling also shows very little exposed tibia, which adds to its short legged appearance and quick stepping behavior, but the second photo of this bird shows a good amount of exposed tibia and a longer-legged look than Sanderling has. Another problem with Sanderling is the tipping posture this bird is exhibiting when it feeds. Its tail is tipping towards the sky on this feeding bird, and its head is submerged. I know these are not the typical field marks that birders are used to when identifying birds, but Sanderling does not feed in this fashion, preferring to pick and probe for its food, and occasionally feeding in deeper water, but not with its head submerged and not with its body tipping upwards. This is directly related to its body structure of short legs and compact body shape, and when a Sanderling leans over to feed, its short legs do not enable the compact body to tip. This tipping behavior is a reliable feature that we use to pick White-rumps out in a crowd of other smallish calidrids, which is a similar trait for Stilt Sandpiper, and both of these species regularly submerge their heads under water while feeding. I agree with Peter Pyle that the first photo seems to suggest Pectoral in body shape, proportional head size and elongation of the body and wings, and I would probably guess Pectoral from this one photo if the bird were in full silhouette. However, the second photo that shows it feeding suggests White-rumped in body posture, shape and neck length compared to the other White-rumped in the background, with the unique tipping feeding behavior clearly illustrated. I am not going to strongly endorse any species on this oddly patterned bird that suggests Sanderling, especially the dark wing bend marking, but the second photo certainly suggests White-rumped in comparative size, shape and body structure, especially the long wings and attenuated body shape. I know that many birders have a hard time evaluating subtle, and even obvious, body shape and structural body parts differences, since we have been taught to primarily analyze field marks and plumage details to reach an ID conclusion, but shorebirds are notorious for showing a variety of inconsistent plumage conditions due to age, molt and transition states, and many of these appearances don't conform to the "expected" views. This is an instance where an evaluation of body shape and structure is more reliable than trying to make sense out of a plumage that normally does not exist with whatever species this is. Another problem is the split second capture of a photo that often puts a bird in a posture that is misleading rather than helpful. Like I said earlier, the first photo in silhouette would trigger an intuitive recognition of a Pectoral Sandpiper body profile, while the second photo really suggests White-rumped. I don't think that the bird is a Pectoral, however, with the super attenuated rear body in the second photo contrary to their body profile, and the tipping feeding behavior in deep water outside their normal repetoire of foraging styles. I would throw my hat in the White-rumped camp based on the comparative view with the other White-rumped in normal plumage. Kevin Karlson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kneidel" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Hello folks, In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a shorebird seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of Trinidad) in November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several White-rumped Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a shallow freshwater lagoon. http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all that being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped Sandpiper? juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts would be appreciated... Cheers, -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Bolivian shorebird From: Mike O'Keeffe <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:05:18 +0100 All, Remind anyone of the recent Baird's/Temminck's Stint confusion? Fantastic to see this forum really coming to life again! Regards Mike O'Keeffe Ireland ----- Original Message ----- From: Lethaby, Nick To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:56 AM Subject: [BIRDWG01] Bolivian shorebird All: While this bird does look odd in some ways for a Sanderling, I checked the web out a bit and found several Sanderling that seem to show a pretty decent primary projection. For example, scroll down to the second last photo entered for the August 26 entry on: http://bbfo.blogspot.com/ Also, it's possible it looks odd because it can't behave like a Sanderling at this location. I would be interested in other people's experience with Sanderlings at inland sites at the US. I saw a couple in OR but it was 18 years ago and I can't remember what their behavior was like. Has anyone seen one wading and feeding in water like this? Nick Lethaby nlethaby AT ti.com +1 805 562 5106 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird - correction From: DJ Lauten and KACastelein <deweysage AT VERIZON.NET> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:34:29 -0700 PS - Sanderling don't feed like that - the bird is up to its joint in water - this is White-rump like at best and maybe Pec like but not really Sanderling like. And I don't really see Sanderling dunking their heads that much, but maybe I'm not paying enough attention and you will all prove me wrong. Seems to me when Sanderling are out of beach habitat, which I tend to think is their preferred habitat, they are on the mudflat, not joint deep in water. Cheers Dave Lauten On 8/26/2010 9:16 PM, Alvaro Jaramillo wrote: > > Folks > > I am onboard with Sanderling, when Peter sent Pyle in his note I > did worry particularly since I thought the photos was recent and a > juvenile molting that far south right now seemed impossible. Then I > realized that this was from late October (according to the site) a few > years back, which makes perfect sense. Sanderling is hypothetical in > Bolivia, so if the identification as a Sanderling is supported by the > observer, this should be published. It is a very rare species in the > interior of South America; I have seen it twice away from the ocean. > Once on Nov 1, 2000 at Lago Pozuelos, Argentina (pretty close to > Bolivia), and the other on Nov 4, 2008 at Laguna Negro Francisco, III > Region, Chile. Both of these sites are way up high (over 4000m) in the > Andes, and in both cases they were molting juveniles just like the > Bolivia bird. It is striking how similar the dates are for these > three, it would seem that these youngsters on their first flight south > are the most likely to wind up inland away from the ocean. Both birds > I saw were with Baird's Sandpiper, the expected peep in the Andes; > White-rumps are absent from the Pacific and Andes but they are the > expected peep east of the Andes at the latitude of Bolivia. The Andes > are seemingly a formidable barrier, particularly for a largely coastal > bird, but I have seen Red Phalaropes on the Argentine side of the > Andes, as well as the Chilean side of the Andes. Franklin's Gulls > regularly show up in southbound migration on the Argentine side of the > Andes (they are coastal birds in South America, not an interior > species). Birds that are east slope migrants do cross over to the west > side on occasion as well, with several Upland Sandpiper records in > Chile, and one recent record of Buff-breasted Sandpiper. Lots still to > find out regarding South American bird migration, it is particularly > fun now that we are getting more and more vagrant records from the south! > > I had a look at my Sanderling photos and they are pretty > long winged buggers. I must admit I had never really thought about it, > but they have pretty good primary extensions. This is not surprising > given the huge distances many of them migrate. > > Regards, > > Alvaro > > Alvaro Jaramillo > > chucao AT coastside.net > > Half Moon Bay, California > > Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide > > www.fieldguides.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification > [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Peter Adriaens > *Sent:* Thursday, August 26, 2010 7:54 PM > *To:* BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Subject:* Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird - correction > > Apologies. The first link I gave is not the correct one (I think it > even shows a Little Stint...). > Wanted to use this one instead: > http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/48281434 > > Peter > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Peter Adriaens > *To:* BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Sent:* Fri, August 27, 2010 4:38:16 AM > *Subject:* Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question > > I must say I am a bit surprised by the controversy caused by what I > initially took for a straightforward Sanderling. > While I certainly have nowhere near as good a feeling for body shape > and structure as Kevin's and perhaps place too much importance on > plumage, I do believe that Sanderlings are notoriously variable in > these traits, depending on the habitat and condition in which they are > found. There is certainly a big difference when it comes to first > impression between the familiar Sanderlings nervously running around > on the beach like dinky toys, and the occasional bird that is seen far > inland, feeding leisurely on its own. > > I do think that Sanderlings can occasionally tip forward strongly, > with the the tail pointed towards the sky and/or the head submerged. I > guess it is just a matter of how deep the water is, how hungry the > bird, and how deeply it has to probe for prey. On the beach, you often > see them probing deeply into the sand, and when they have a bit of > difficulty getting the prey out, they may tilt their whole body for > 45� or more. Likewise, tibia length is a bit variable too. I agree it > is usually very short and almost completely feathered, but some birds > show quite a long, unfeathered tibia. It may be the usual scenario: a > bird in hot weather will look longer-legged than a bird on the beach > on a cold winter day. Quite a few birds show a massive primary > projection, or at least long enough to make a White-rumped Sandpiper > jealous! > When Sanderlings are seen well inland on a warm spring or summer day, > they often look like this (and may confuse some observers): > http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/43365065 > http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/49355 > (Note body shape, exposed tibia, and so on in these birds). > > A few birds tipping forward, or with head submerged: > http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/118856 > http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/257222 > > Some more photographs, illustrating variation in primary projection, > rear body, neck length, bill shape, tibia length, body shape, etc: > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=147464 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=219537 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=110376 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=196576 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188971 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188525 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=171778 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=162537 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=149576 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=108823 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=59315 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=39003 > http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1461071 > http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1419725 > http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1255032 > > If the Bolivian bird really is no Sanderling, I think it sure does a > good job impersonating one, with that pale plumage, black wing bend > and broad white wing bar. > > Kind regards, > Peter > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Kevin Karlson > *To:* BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Sent:* Fri, August 27, 2010 12:36:31 AM > *Subject:* Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question > > Alan and all: > > This seems to be a period of unusual photos of shorebirds, and yours > is no exception. The first impression given is Sanderling, with the > plumage being somewhat consistent with that species, but the body and > bill shapes are not consistent with Sanderling, which is a dumpy bird > overall that has a more forshortened body structure and lacks the > obvious attenuated rear body shape of this bird, not to mention a > uniformly thicker bill, larger head and shorter neck. Sanderling also > lacks the noticeable primary projection of this bird, including the > distance from the longest tertial. Adult Sanderlings have primaries > that only extend slightly past the longest tertial, but some first > year birds show more primary projection for their first life year, but > nowhere near as pronounced as this bird. Sanderling also shows very > little exposed tibia, which adds to its short legged appearance and > quick stepping behavior, but the second photo of this bird shows a > good amount of exposed tibia and a longer-legged look than Sanderling > has. Another problem with Sanderling is the tipping posture this bird > is exhibiting when it feeds. Its tail is tipping towards the sky on > this feeding bird, and its head is submerged. I know these are not the > typical field marks that birders are used to when identifying birds, > but Sanderling does not feed in this fashion, preferring to pick and > probe for its food, and occasionally feeding in deeper water, but not > with its head submerged and not with its body tipping upwards. This is > directly related to its body structure of short legs and compact body > shape, and when a Sanderling leans over to feed, its short legs do not > enable the compact body to tip. This tipping behavior is a reliable > feature that we use to pick White-rumps out in a crowd of other > smallish calidrids, which is a similar trait for Stilt Sandpiper, and > both of these species regularly submerge their heads under water while > feeding. > > I agree with Peter Pyle that the first photo seems to suggest > Pectoral in body shape, proportional head size and elongation of the > body and wings, and I would probably guess Pectoral from this one > photo if the bird were in full silhouette. However, the second photo > that shows it feeding suggests White-rumped in body posture, shape and > neck length compared to the other White-rumped in the background, with > the unique tipping feeding behavior clearly illustrated. I am not > going to strongly endorse any species on this oddly patterned bird > that suggests Sanderling, especially the dark wing bend marking, but > the second photo certainly suggests White-rumped in comparative size, > shape and body structure, especially the long wings and attenuated > body shape. > > I know that many birders have a hard time evaluating subtle, and even > obvious, body shape and structural body parts differences, since we > have been taught to primarily analyze field marks and plumage details > to reach an ID conclusion, but shorebirds are notorious for showing a > variety of inconsistent plumage conditions due to age, molt and > transition states, and many of these appearances don't conform to the > "expected" views. This is an instance where an evaluation of body > shape and structure is more reliable than trying to make sense out of > a plumage that normally does not exist with whatever species this is. > Another problem is the split second capture of a photo that often puts > a bird in a posture that is misleading rather than helpful. Like I > said earlier, the first photo in silhouette would trigger an intuitive > recognition of a Pectoral Sandpiper body profile, while the second > photo really suggests White-rumped. I don't think that the bird is a > Pectoral, however, with the super attenuated rear body in the second > photo contrary to their body profile, and the tipping feeding behavior > in deep water outside their normal repetoire of foraging styles. I > would throw my hat in the White-rumped camp based on the comparative > view with the other White-rumped in normal plumage. > > > Kevin Karlson > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Kneidel" > To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM > Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question > > Hello folks, > > > In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a > shorebird seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of > Trinidad) in November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several > White-rumped Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a > shallow freshwater lagoon. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ > > I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all > that being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped > Sandpiper? juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts > would be appreciated... > > Cheers, > -- > Alan H. Kneidel > 980-254-2706 > akneidel AT gmail.com > > > > > -- > Alan H. Kneidel > 980-254-2706 > akneidel AT gmail.com > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird - correction From: DJ Lauten and KACastelein <deweysage AT VERIZON.NET> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:30:35 -0700 Folks, I don't normally do this, because I feel many of you are more experienced than me, and that makes me wary to stick my neck out, but I happen to work in an environment - the beach - where I see Sanderling literally everyday for about 6 months for the past 14 years. And all due respect to all, because many of you are friends of mine (Alvaro, Kevin, Julian...), but I don't see an obvious Sanderling here. When I first looked at the picture, I agree with Kevin, it doesn't look right for Sanderling. I'm not as savy as Kevin with his words, so I can't describe what I'm seeing so well, but the bill in particular looks too heavy for Sanderling. But what bugs me more, is the second picture. The bird in the upper left is nearly the same shape and size as the bird in question, and that's no Sanderling. I think this picture is deceiving, because the bird in question has its bill in the water, but I think it is a stretch to suggest that these two birds are not the same species, and one certainly is not a Sanderling. They are both long winged, thick billed shorebirds. I think this is an aberrant Pec or White-rumped Sand, and not a Sanderling. cheers Dave Lauten Bandon OR deweysage AT verizon.net On 8/26/2010 9:16 PM, Alvaro Jaramillo wrote: > > Folks > > I am onboard with Sanderling, when Peter sent Pyle in his note I > did worry particularly since I thought the photos was recent and a > juvenile molting that far south right now seemed impossible. Then I > realized that this was from late October (according to the site) a few > years back, which makes perfect sense. Sanderling is hypothetical in > Bolivia, so if the identification as a Sanderling is supported by the > observer, this should be published. It is a very rare species in the > interior of South America; I have seen it twice away from the ocean. > Once on Nov 1, 2000 at Lago Pozuelos, Argentina (pretty close to > Bolivia), and the other on Nov 4, 2008 at Laguna Negro Francisco, III > Region, Chile. Both of these sites are way up high (over 4000m) in the > Andes, and in both cases they were molting juveniles just like the > Bolivia bird. It is striking how similar the dates are for these > three, it would seem that these youngsters on their first flight south > are the most likely to wind up inland away from the ocean. Both birds > I saw were with Baird's Sandpiper, the expected peep in the Andes; > White-rumps are absent from the Pacific and Andes but they are the > expected peep east of the Andes at the latitude of Bolivia. The Andes > are seemingly a formidable barrier, particularly for a largely coastal > bird, but I have seen Red Phalaropes on the Argentine side of the > Andes, as well as the Chilean side of the Andes. Franklin's Gulls > regularly show up in southbound migration on the Argentine side of the > Andes (they are coastal birds in South America, not an interior > species). Birds that are east slope migrants do cross over to the west > side on occasion as well, with several Upland Sandpiper records in > Chile, and one recent record of Buff-breasted Sandpiper. Lots still to > find out regarding South American bird migration, it is particularly > fun now that we are getting more and more vagrant records from the south! > > I had a look at my Sanderling photos and they are pretty > long winged buggers. I must admit I had never really thought about it, > but they have pretty good primary extensions. This is not surprising > given the huge distances many of them migrate. > > Regards, > > Alvaro > > Alvaro Jaramillo > > chucao AT coastside.net > > Half Moon Bay, California > > Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide > > www.fieldguides.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification > [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Peter Adriaens > *Sent:* Thursday, August 26, 2010 7:54 PM > *To:* BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Subject:* Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird - correction > > Apologies. The first link I gave is not the correct one (I think it > even shows a Little Stint...). > Wanted to use this one instead: > http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/48281434 > > Peter > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Peter Adriaens > *To:* BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Sent:* Fri, August 27, 2010 4:38:16 AM > *Subject:* Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question > > I must say I am a bit surprised by the controversy caused by what I > initially took for a straightforward Sanderling. > While I certainly have nowhere near as good a feeling for body shape > and structure as Kevin's and perhaps place too much importance on > plumage, I do believe that Sanderlings are notoriously variable in > these traits, depending on the habitat and condition in which they are > found. There is certainly a big difference when it comes to first > impression between the familiar Sanderlings nervously running around > on the beach like dinky toys, and the occasional bird that is seen far > inland, feeding leisurely on its own. > > I do think that Sanderlings can occasionally tip forward strongly, > with the the tail pointed towards the sky and/or the head submerged. I > guess it is just a matter of how deep the water is, how hungry the > bird, and how deeply it has to probe for prey. On the beach, you often > see them probing deeply into the sand, and when they have a bit of > difficulty getting the prey out, they may tilt their whole body for > 45� or more. Likewise, tibia length is a bit variable too. I agree it > is usually very short and almost completely feathered, but some birds > show quite a long, unfeathered tibia. It may be the usual scenario: a > bird in hot weather will look longer-legged than a bird on the beach > on a cold winter day. Quite a few birds show a massive primary > projection, or at least long enough to make a White-rumped Sandpiper > jealous! > When Sanderlings are seen well inland on a warm spring or summer day, > they often look like this (and may confuse some observers): > http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/43365065 > http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/49355 > (Note body shape, exposed tibia, and so on in these birds). > > A few birds tipping forward, or with head submerged: > http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/118856 > http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/257222 > > Some more photographs, illustrating variation in primary projection, > rear body, neck length, bill shape, tibia length, body shape, etc: > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=147464 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=219537 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=110376 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=196576 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188971 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188525 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=171778 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=162537 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=149576 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=108823 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=59315 > http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=39003 > http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1461071 > http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1419725 > http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1255032 > > If the Bolivian bird really is no Sanderling, I think it sure does a > good job impersonating one, with that pale plumage, black wing bend > and broad white wing bar. > > Kind regards, > Peter > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Kevin Karlson > *To:* BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > *Sent:* Fri, August 27, 2010 12:36:31 AM > *Subject:* Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question > > Alan and all: > > This seems to be a period of unusual photos of shorebirds, and yours > is no exception. The first impression given is Sanderling, with the > plumage being somewhat consistent with that species, but the body and > bill shapes are not consistent with Sanderling, which is a dumpy bird > overall that has a more forshortened body structure and lacks the > obvious attenuated rear body shape of this bird, not to mention a > uniformly thicker bill, larger head and shorter neck. Sanderling also > lacks the noticeable primary projection of this bird, including the > distance from the longest tertial. Adult Sanderlings have primaries > that only extend slightly past the longest tertial, but some first > year birds show more primary projection for their first life year, but > nowhere near as pronounced as this bird. Sanderling also shows very > little exposed tibia, which adds to its short legged appearance and > quick stepping behavior, but the second photo of this bird shows a > good amount of exposed tibia and a longer-legged look than Sanderling > has. Another problem with Sanderling is the tipping posture this bird > is exhibiting when it feeds. Its tail is tipping towards the sky on > this feeding bird, and its head is submerged. I know these are not the > typical field marks that birders are used to when identifying birds, > but Sanderling does not feed in this fashion, preferring to pick and > probe for its food, and occasionally feeding in deeper water, but not > with its head submerged and not with its body tipping upwards. This is > directly related to its body structure of short legs and compact body > shape, and when a Sanderling leans over to feed, its short legs do not > enable the compact body to tip. This tipping behavior is a reliable > feature that we use to pick White-rumps out in a crowd of other > smallish calidrids, which is a similar trait for Stilt Sandpiper, and > both of these species regularly submerge their heads under water while > feeding. > > I agree with Peter Pyle that the first photo seems to suggest > Pectoral in body shape, proportional head size and elongation of the > body and wings, and I would probably guess Pectoral from this one > photo if the bird were in full silhouette. However, the second photo > that shows it feeding suggests White-rumped in body posture, shape and > neck length compared to the other White-rumped in the background, with > the unique tipping feeding behavior clearly illustrated. I am not > going to strongly endorse any species on this oddly patterned bird > that suggests Sanderling, especially the dark wing bend marking, but > the second photo certainly suggests White-rumped in comparative size, > shape and body structure, especially the long wings and attenuated > body shape. > > I know that many birders have a hard time evaluating subtle, and even > obvious, body shape and structural body parts differences, since we > have been taught to primarily analyze field marks and plumage details > to reach an ID conclusion, but shorebirds are notorious for showing a > variety of inconsistent plumage conditions due to age, molt and > transition states, and many of these appearances don't conform to the > "expected" views. This is an instance where an evaluation of body > shape and structure is more reliable than trying to make sense out of > a plumage that normally does not exist with whatever species this is. > Another problem is the split second capture of a photo that often puts > a bird in a posture that is misleading rather than helpful. Like I > said earlier, the first photo in silhouette would trigger an intuitive > recognition of a Pectoral Sandpiper body profile, while the second > photo really suggests White-rumped. I don't think that the bird is a > Pectoral, however, with the super attenuated rear body in the second > photo contrary to their body profile, and the tipping feeding behavior > in deep water outside their normal repetoire of foraging styles. I > would throw my hat in the White-rumped camp based on the comparative > view with the other White-rumped in normal plumage. > > > Kevin Karlson > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Kneidel" > To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM > Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question > > Hello folks, > > > In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a > shorebird seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of > Trinidad) in November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several > White-rumped Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a > shallow freshwater lagoon. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ > > I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all > that being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped > Sandpiper? juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts > would be appreciated... > > Cheers, > -- > Alan H. Kneidel > 980-254-2706 > akneidel AT gmail.com > > > > > -- > Alan H. Kneidel > 980-254-2706 > akneidel AT gmail.com > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: > http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 > > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html > Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird - correction From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao AT COASTSIDE.NET> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:16:25 -0700 Folks I am onboard with Sanderling, when Peter sent Pyle in his note I did worry particularly since I thought the photos was recent and a juvenile molting that far south right now seemed impossible. Then I realized that this was from late October (according to the site) a few years back, which makes perfect sense. Sanderling is hypothetical in Bolivia, so if the identification as a Sanderling is supported by the observer, this should be published. It is a very rare species in the interior of South America; I have seen it twice away from the ocean. Once on Nov 1, 2000 at Lago Pozuelos, Argentina (pretty close to Bolivia), and the other on Nov 4, 2008 at Laguna Negro Francisco, III Region, Chile. Both of these sites are way up high (over 4000m) in the Andes, and in both cases they were molting juveniles just like the Bolivia bird. It is striking how similar the dates are for these three, it would seem that these youngsters on their first flight south are the most likely to wind up inland away from the ocean. Both birds I saw were with Baird�s Sandpiper, the expected peep in the Andes; White-rumps are absent from the Pacific and Andes but they are the expected peep east of the Andes at the latitude of Bolivia. The Andes are seemingly a formidable barrier, particularly for a largely coastal bird, but I have seen Red Phalaropes on the Argentine side of the Andes, as well as the Chilean side of the Andes. Franklin�s Gulls regularly show up in southbound migration on the Argentine side of the Andes (they are coastal birds in South America, not an interior species). Birds that are east slope migrants do cross over to the west side on occasion as well, with several Upland Sandpiper records in Chile, and one recent record of Buff-breasted Sandpiper. Lots still to find out regarding South American bird migration, it is particularly fun now that we are getting more and more vagrant records from the south! I had a look at my Sanderling photos and they are pretty long winged buggers. I must admit I had never really thought about it, but they have pretty good primary extensions. This is not surprising given the huge distances many of them migrate. Regards, Alvaro Alvaro Jaramillo chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide www.fieldguides.com _____ From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Adriaens Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 7:54 PM To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird - correction Apologies. The first link I gave is not the correct one (I think it even shows a Little Stint...). Wanted to use this one instead: http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/48281434 Peter _____ From: Peter Adriaens To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 4:38:16 AM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question I must say I am a bit surprised by the controversy caused by what I initially took for a straightforward Sanderling. While I certainly have nowhere near as good a feeling for body shape and structure as Kevin's and perhaps place too much importance on plumage, I do believe that Sanderlings are notoriously variable in these traits, depending on the habitat and condition in which they are found. There is certainly a big difference when it comes to first impression between the familiar Sanderlings nervously running around on the beach like dinky toys, and the occasional bird that is seen far inland, feeding leisurely on its own. I do think that Sanderlings can occasionally tip forward strongly, with the the tail pointed towards the sky and/or the head submerged. I guess it is just a matter of how deep the water is, how hungry the bird, and how deeply it has to probe for prey. On the beach, you often see them probing deeply into the sand, and when they have a bit of difficulty getting the prey out, they may tilt their whole body for 45� or more. Likewise, tibia length is a bit variable too. I agree it is usually very short and almost completely feathered, but some birds show quite a long, unfeathered tibia. It may be the usual scenario: a bird in hot weather will look longer-legged than a bird on the beach on a cold winter day. Quite a few birds show a massive primary projection, or at least long enough to make a White-rumped Sandpiper jealous! When Sanderlings are seen well inland on a warm spring or summer day, they often look like this (and may confuse some observers): http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/43365065 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/49355 (Note body shape, exposed tibia, and so on in these birds). A few birds tipping forward, or with head submerged: http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/118856 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/257222 Some more photographs, illustrating variation in primary projection, rear body, neck length, bill shape, tibia length, body shape, etc: http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=147464 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=219537 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=110376 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=196576 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188971 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188525 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=171778 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=162537 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=149576 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=108823 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=59315 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=39003 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1461071 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1419725 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1255032 If the Bolivian bird really is no Sanderling, I think it sure does a good job impersonating one, with that pale plumage, black wing bend and broad white wing bar. Kind regards, Peter _____ From: Kevin Karlson To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 12:36:31 AM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Alan and all: This seems to be a period of unusual photos of shorebirds, and yours is no exception. The first impression given is Sanderling, with the plumage being somewhat consistent with that species, but the body and bill shapes are not consistent with Sanderling, which is a dumpy bird overall that has a more forshortened body structure and lacks the obvious attenuated rear body shape of this bird, not to mention a uniformly thicker bill, larger head and shorter neck. Sanderling also lacks the noticeable primary projection of this bird, including the distance from the longest tertial. Adult Sanderlings have primaries that only extend slightly past the longest tertial, but some first year birds show more primary projection for their first life year, but nowhere near as pronounced as this bird. Sanderling also shows very little exposed tibia, which adds to its short legged appearance and quick stepping behavior, but the second photo of this bird shows a good amount of exposed tibia and a longer-legged look than Sanderling has. Another problem with Sanderling is the tipping posture this bird is exhibiting when it feeds. Its tail is tipping towards the sky on this feeding bird, and its head is submerged. I know these are not the typical field marks that birders are used to when identifying birds, but Sanderling does not feed in this fashion, preferring to pick and probe for its food, and occasionally feeding in deeper water, but not with its head submerged and not with its body tipping upwards. This is directly related to its body structure of short legs and compact body shape, and when a Sanderling leans over to feed, its short legs do not enable the compact body to tip. This tipping behavior is a reliable feature that we use to pick White-rumps out in a crowd of other smallish calidrids, which is a similar trait for Stilt Sandpiper, and both of these species regularly submerge their heads under water while feeding. I agree with Peter Pyle that the first photo seems to suggest Pectoral in body shape, proportional head size and elongation of the body and wings, and I would probably guess Pectoral from this one photo if the bird were in full silhouette. However, the second photo that shows it feeding suggests White-rumped in body posture, shape and neck length compared to the other White-rumped in the background, with the unique tipping feeding behavior clearly illustrated. I am not going to strongly endorse any species on this oddly patterned bird that suggests Sanderling, especially the dark wing bend marking, but the second photo certainly suggests White-rumped in comparative size, shape and body structure, especially the long wings and attenuated body shape. I know that many birders have a hard time evaluating subtle, and even obvious, body shape and structural body parts differences, since we have been taught to primarily analyze field marks and plumage details to reach an ID conclusion, but shorebirds are notorious for showing a variety of inconsistent plumage conditions due to age, molt and transition states, and many of these appearances don't conform to the "expected" views. This is an instance where an evaluation of body shape and structure is more reliable than trying to make sense out of a plumage that normally does not exist with whatever species this is. Another problem is the split second capture of a photo that often puts a bird in a posture that is misleading rather than helpful. Like I said earlier, the first photo in silhouette would trigger an intuitive recognition of a Pectoral Sandpiper body profile, while the second photo really suggests White-rumped. I don't think that the bird is a Pectoral, however, with the super attenuated rear body in the second photo contrary to their body profile, and the tipping feeding behavior in deep water outside their normal repetoire of foraging styles. I would throw my hat in the White-rumped camp based on the comparative view with the other White-rumped in normal plumage. Kevin Karlson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kneidel" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Hello folks, In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a shorebird seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of Trinidad) in November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several White-rumped Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a shallow freshwater lagoon. http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all that being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped Sandpiper? juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts would be appreciated... Cheers, -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird - correction From: Peter Adriaens <p_adriaens AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:54:24 -0700 Apologies. The first link I gave is not the correct one (I think it even shows a Little Stint...). Wanted to use this one instead: http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/48281434 Peter ________________________________ From: Peter Adriaens To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 4:38:16 AM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question I must say I am a bit surprised by the controversy caused by what I initially took for a straightforward Sanderling. While I certainly have nowhere near as good a feeling for body shape and structure as Kevin's and perhaps place too much importance on plumage, I do believe that Sanderlings are notoriously variable in these traits, depending on the habitat and condition in which they are found. There is certainly a big difference when it comes to first impression between the familiar Sanderlings nervously running around on the beach like dinky toys, and the occasional bird that is seen far inland, feeding leisurely on its own. I do think that Sanderlings can occasionally tip forward strongly, with the the tail pointed towards the sky and/or the head submerged. I guess it is just a matter of how deep the water is, how hungry the bird, and how deeply it has to probe for prey. On the beach, you often see them probing deeply into the sand, and when they have a bit of difficulty getting the prey out, they may tilt their whole body for 45� or more. Likewise, tibia length is a bit variable too. I agree it is usually very short and almost completely feathered, but some birds show quite a long, unfeathered tibia. It may be the usual scenario: a bird in hot weather will look longer-legged than a bird on the beach on a cold winter day. Quite a few birds show a massive primary projection, or at least long enough to make a White-rumped Sandpiper jealous! When Sanderlings are seen well inland on a warm spring or summer day, they often look like this (and may confuse some observers): http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/43365065 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/49355 (Note body shape, exposed tibia, and so on in these birds). A few birds tipping forward, or with head submerged: http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/118856 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/257222 Some more photographs, illustrating variation in primary projection, rear body, neck length, bill shape, tibia length, body shape, etc: http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=147464 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=219537 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=110376 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=196576 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188971 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188525 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=171778 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=162537 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=149576 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=108823 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=59315 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=39003 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1461071 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1419725 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1255032 If the Bolivian bird really is no Sanderling, I think it sure does a good job impersonating one, with that pale plumage, black wing bend and broad white wing bar. Kind regards, Peter ________________________________ From: Kevin Karlson To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 12:36:31 AM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Alan and all: This seems to be a period of unusual photos of shorebirds, and yours is no exception. The first impression given is Sanderling, with the plumage being somewhat consistent with that species, but the body and bill shapes are not consistent with Sanderling, which is a dumpy bird overall that has a more forshortened body structure and lacks the obvious attenuated rear body shape of this bird, not to mention a uniformly thicker bill, larger head and shorter neck. Sanderling also lacks the noticeable primary projection of this bird, including the distance from the longest tertial. Adult Sanderlings have primaries that only extend slightly past the longest tertial, but some first year birds show more primary projection for their first life year, but nowhere near as pronounced as this bird. Sanderling also shows very little exposed tibia, which adds to its short legged appearance and quick stepping behavior, but the second photo of this bird shows a good amount of exposed tibia and a longer-legged look than Sanderling has. Another problem with Sanderling is the tipping posture this bird is exhibiting when it feeds. Its tail is tipping towards the sky on this feeding bird, and its head is submerged. I know these are not the typical field marks that birders are used to when identifying birds, but Sanderling does not feed in this fashion, preferring to pick and probe for its food, and occasionally feeding in deeper water, but not with its head submerged and not with its body tipping upwards. This is directly related to its body structure of short legs and compact body shape, and when a Sanderling leans over to feed, its short legs do not enable the compact body to tip. This tipping behavior is a reliable feature that we use to pick White-rumps out in a crowd of other smallish calidrids, which is a similar trait for Stilt Sandpiper, and both of these species regularly submerge their heads under water while feeding. I agree with Peter Pyle that the first photo seems to suggest Pectoral in body shape, proportional head size and elongation of the body and wings, and I would probably guess Pectoral from this one photo if the bird were in full silhouette. However, the second photo that shows it feeding suggests White-rumped in body posture, shape and neck length compared to the other White-rumped in the background, with the unique tipping feeding behavior clearly illustrated. I am not going to strongly endorse any species on this oddly patterned bird that suggests Sanderling, especially the dark wing bend marking, but the second photo certainly suggests White-rumped in comparative size, shape and body structure, especially the long wings and attenuated body shape. I know that many birders have a hard time evaluating subtle, and even obvious, body shape and structural body parts differences, since we have been taught to primarily analyze field marks and plumage details to reach an ID conclusion, but shorebirds are notorious for showing a variety of inconsistent plumage conditions due to age, molt and transition states, and many of these appearances don't conform to the "expected" views. This is an instance where an evaluation of body shape and structure is more reliable than trying to make sense out of a plumage that normally does not exist with whatever species this is. Another problem is the split second capture of a photo that often puts a bird in a posture that is misleading rather than helpful. Like I said earlier, the first photo in silhouette would trigger an intuitive recognition of a Pectoral Sandpiper body profile, while the second photo really suggests White-rumped. I don't think that the bird is a Pectoral, however, with the super attenuated rear body in the second photo contrary to their body profile, and the tipping feeding behavior in deep water outside their normal repetoire of foraging styles. I would throw my hat in the White-rumped camp based on the comparative view with the other White-rumped in normal plumage. Kevin Karlson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kneidel" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Hello folks, In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a shorebird seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of Trinidad) in November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several White-rumped Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a shallow freshwater lagoon. http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all that being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped Sandpiper? juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts would be appreciated... Cheers, -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: pale bolivian shorebird in question From: Peter Adriaens <p_adriaens AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:38:16 -0700 I must say I am a bit surprised by the controversy caused by what I initially took for a straightforward Sanderling. While I certainly have nowhere near as good a feeling for body shape and structure as Kevin's and perhaps place too much importance on plumage, I do believe that Sanderlings are notoriously variable in these traits, depending on the habitat and condition in which they are found. There is certainly a big difference when it comes to first impression between the familiar Sanderlings nervously running around on the beach like dinky toys, and the occasional bird that is seen far inland, feeding leisurely on its own. I do think that Sanderlings can occasionally tip forward strongly, with the the tail pointed towards the sky and/or the head submerged. I guess it is just a matter of how deep the water is, how hungry the bird, and how deeply it has to probe for prey. On the beach, you often see them probing deeply into the sand, and when they have a bit of difficulty getting the prey out, they may tilt their whole body for 45� or more. Likewise, tibia length is a bit variable too. I agree it is usually very short and almost completely feathered, but some birds show quite a long, unfeathered tibia. It may be the usual scenario: a bird in hot weather will look longer-legged than a bird on the beach on a cold winter day. Quite a few birds show a massive primary projection, or at least long enough to make a White-rumped Sandpiper jealous! When Sanderlings are seen well inland on a warm spring or summer day, they often look like this (and may confuse some observers): http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/43365065 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/49355 (Note body shape, exposed tibia, and so on in these birds). A few birds tipping forward, or with head submerged: http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/118856 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/257222 Some more photographs, illustrating variation in primary projection, rear body, neck length, bill shape, tibia length, body shape, etc: http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=147464 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=219537 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=110376 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=196576 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188971 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=188525 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=171778 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=162537 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=149576 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=108823 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=59315 http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=39003 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1461071 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1419725 http://waarneming.nl/foto/view/1255032 If the Bolivian bird really is no Sanderling, I think it sure does a good job impersonating one, with that pale plumage, black wing bend and broad white wing bar. Kind regards, Peter ________________________________ From: Kevin Karlson To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 12:36:31 AM Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Alan and all: This seems to be a period of unusual photos of shorebirds, and yours is no exception. The first impression given is Sanderling, with the plumage being somewhat consistent with that species, but the body and bill shapes are not consistent with Sanderling, which is a dumpy bird overall that has a more forshortened body structure and lacks the obvious attenuated rear body shape of this bird, not to mention a uniformly thicker bill, larger head and shorter neck. Sanderling also lacks the noticeable primary projection of this bird, including the distance from the longest tertial. Adult Sanderlings have primaries that only extend slightly past the longest tertial, but some first year birds show more primary projection for their first life year, but nowhere near as pronounced as this bird. Sanderling also shows very little exposed tibia, which adds to its short legged appearance and quick stepping behavior, but the second photo of this bird shows a good amount of exposed tibia and a longer-legged look than Sanderling has. Another problem with Sanderling is the tipping posture this bird is exhibiting when it feeds. Its tail is tipping towards the sky on this feeding bird, and its head is submerged. I know these are not the typical field marks that birders are used to when identifying birds, but Sanderling does not feed in this fashion, preferring to pick and probe for its food, and occasionally feeding in deeper water, but not with its head submerged and not with its body tipping upwards. This is directly related to its body structure of short legs and compact body shape, and when a Sanderling leans over to feed, its short legs do not enable the compact body to tip. This tipping behavior is a reliable feature that we use to pick White-rumps out in a crowd of other smallish calidrids, which is a similar trait for Stilt Sandpiper, and both of these species regularly submerge their heads under water while feeding. I agree with Peter Pyle that the first photo seems to suggest Pectoral in body shape, proportional head size and elongation of the body and wings, and I would probably guess Pectoral from this one photo if the bird were in full silhouette. However, the second photo that shows it feeding suggests White-rumped in body posture, shape and neck length compared to the other White-rumped in the background, with the unique tipping feeding behavior clearly illustrated. I am not going to strongly endorse any species on this oddly patterned bird that suggests Sanderling, especially the dark wing bend marking, but the second photo certainly suggests White-rumped in comparative size, shape and body structure, especially the long wings and attenuated body shape. I know that many birders have a hard time evaluating subtle, and even obvious, body shape and structural body parts differences, since we have been taught to primarily analyze field marks and plumage details to reach an ID conclusion, but shorebirds are notorious for showing a variety of inconsistent plumage conditions due to age, molt and transition states, and many of these appearances don't conform to the "expected" views. This is an instance where an evaluation of body shape and structure is more reliable than trying to make sense out of a plumage that normally does not exist with whatever species this is. Another problem is the split second capture of a photo that often puts a bird in a posture that is misleading rather than helpful. Like I said earlier, the first photo in silhouette would trigger an intuitive recognition of a Pectoral Sandpiper body profile, while the second photo really suggests White-rumped. I don't think that the bird is a Pectoral, however, with the super attenuated rear body in the second photo contrary to their body profile, and the tipping feeding behavior in deep water outside their normal repetoire of foraging styles. I would throw my hat in the White-rumped camp based on the comparative view with the other White-rumped in normal plumage. Kevin Karlson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kneidel" To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:15:47 PM Subject: [BIRDWG01] pale bolivian shorebird in question Hello folks, In the links below are two separate, mediocre photographs of a shorebird seen in Beni Department of Bolivia(north of the town of Trinidad) in November of 2008. The bird was seen foraging with several White-rumped Sandpipers(one is present in the 2nd photograph) in a shallow freshwater lagoon. http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4902534630/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322683 AT N05/4901949261/ I was unable to document rump or wing patterns, unfortunately. So, all that being said... is it simply an extremely pale White-rumped Sandpiper? juvenile Sanderling? something else entirely? Any thoughts would be appreciated... Cheers, -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com -- Alan H. Kneidel 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Subject: Re: Bolivian shorebird From: Christopher Wood <pinicola AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:18:52 -0400 I see no reason to think this isn't a Sanderling. I have seen many feeding like this when forced down during storms in the Great Plains (or simply feeding at high inland reservoirs). I don't think the behavior is at all uncommon under the right (wrong?) circumstances. Chris Wood Ithaca, New York http://ebird.org On Aug 26, 2010, at 8:56 PM, "Lethaby, Nick" wrote: All: While this bird does look odd in some ways for a Sanderling, I checked the web out a bit and found several Sanderling that seem to show a pretty decent primary projection. For example, scroll down to the second last photo entered for the August 26 entry on: http://bbfo.blogspot.com/ Also, it�s possible it looks odd because it can�t behave like a Sanderling at this location. I would be interested in other people�s experience with Sanderlings at inland sites at the US. I saw a couple in OR but it was 18 years ago and I can�t remember what their behavior was like. Has anyone seen one wading and feeding in water like this? Nick Lethaby nlethaby AT ti.com +1 805 562 5106 Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01 Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html