2 Sep Re: Something for the weekend [Kieran Fahy ]
2 Sep Re: Something for the weekend [Eamonn ]
3 Sep Something for the weekend [Paul & Norma Moore ]
2 Sep Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Breffni Martin ]
1 Sep Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Mike O'Keeffe ]
1 Sep EASTERN OLLY - 391 [Lee G R Evans ]
1 Sep Easterly winds already reaping rewards [Lee G R Evans ]
1 Sep Re: stolen 'scope [Eamonn ]
1 Sep Re: stolen 'scope [julian wyllie ]
31 Aug Re: Coomon Crane report on BirdGuides [Mícheál Casey ]
31 Aug Re: Coomon Crane report on BirdGuides [Mícheál Casey ]
31 Aug Re: Coomon Crane report on BirdGuides [Dermot Breen ]
31 Aug Coomon Crane report on BirdGuides ["Casey, Micheal" ]
31 Aug The life of Birds [Andrew Kelly ]
31 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Eamonn ]
31 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Robert Vaughan ]
31 Aug Re: stolen 'scope [Steve Wing ]
31 Aug Re: stolen 'scope [Martin Styles ]
31 Aug stolen 'scope [julian wyllie ]
29 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Robert Vaughan ]
28 Aug Re: Dublin Glossy Ibis Youtube HD Video [Mark Shorten ]
28 Aug Dublin Glossy Ibis Youtube HD Video [Paddy O'Keeffe ]
28 Aug Art Exhibition by Michael O'Clery [Eric Dempsey ]
27 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Lee G R Evans ]
27 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Steve Wing ]
27 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Eamonn O'Donnell ]
27 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Eamonn O'Donnell ]
27 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Robert Vaughan ]
27 Aug Dublin GLOSSY IBISES [Lee G R Evans ]
26 Aug Re: Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin [Lee G R Evans ]
26 Aug Re: Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin [Paddy O'Keeffe ]
26 Aug Re: Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin [Lee G R Evans ]
26 Aug Re: Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin [Paddy O'Keeffe ]
26 Aug Re: Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin [Lee G R Evans ]
26 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Lee G R Evans ]
26 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Robert Vaughan ]
26 Aug Re: Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin [Eamonn O'Donnell ]
26 Aug Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin [Harry Hussey ]
25 Aug Re: Anybody bored by this...please do not read! [Phil Davis ]
25 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Eamonn O'Donnell ]
25 Aug Anybody bored by this...please do not read! [Phil Davis ]
25 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Patrick Lonergan ]
25 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Robert Vaughan ]
25 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Patrick Lonergan ]
25 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Robert Vaughan ]
25 Aug Mega Mega Boring [Hugh Delaney ]
24 Aug Re: Boring [Phil Davis ]
24 Aug Re: Boring [Martin Styles ]
24 Aug Re: Boring [Séamus Feeney ]
24 Aug Boring [Edward Carty ]
23 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Phil Davis ]
23 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [julian wyllie ]
22 Aug Continuing assessment of Owen Foley's records [Lee G R Evans ]
22 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Eamonn O'Donnell ]
22 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Robert Vaughan ]
22 Aug Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye [Joseph Doolan ]
22 Aug Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye [Eoin C. Bairéad ]
22 Aug CHIMNEY SWIFT in August !! [Lee G R Evans ]
22 Aug MEGA: SHARP-TAILED SANDPIPER in East Yorkshire [Lee G R Evans ]
22 Aug Re: News from Wales [Eugene ARCHER ]
22 Aug Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye [Joseph Doolan ]
22 Aug Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye [Eoin C. Bairéad ]
22 Aug Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye [Joseph Doolan ]
22 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Patrick Lonergan ]
22 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Robert Vaughan ]
21 Aug Puffins on Ireland's Eye [Eoin C. Bairéad ]
21 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Ronan McLaughlin ]
21 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Lee G R Evans ]
21 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [John Coveney Birds ]
20 Aug Re: Irish passport holder caught smuggling Peregrine eggs [John Gallagher ]
20 Aug As weekend approaches, LESSER GREY bales out [Lee G R Evans ]
20 Aug Seatrack - August Update [Noel Keogh ]
20 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Phil Davis ]
20 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Mark Carmody ]
20 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Phil Davis ]
20 Aug Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday [Hugh Delaney ]
Subject: Re: Something for the weekend
From: Kieran Fahy <kieranfahy AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 14:17:06 +0100
Drop the ib before ibhttp and works perfectly
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Eamonn
Sent: 02 September 2010 14:15
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Something for the weekend
SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE LINK PAUL
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Paul & Norma Moore
Sent: 03 September 2010 12:50
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Something for the weekend
Worth a look, even if it doesn't come through.
Paul
ibhttp://www.freewebs.com/punkbirder/earlisthenewgloria.htm
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by MailMarshal
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Subject: Re: Something for the weekend
From: Eamonn <eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE>
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 14:14:31 +0100
SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE LINK PAUL
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Paul & Norma Moore
Sent: 03 September 2010 12:50
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Something for the weekend
Worth a look, even if it doesn't come through.
Paul
ibhttp://www.freewebs.com/punkbirder/earlisthenewgloria.htm
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Subject: Something for the weekend
From: Paul & Norma Moore <Paulmoore01 AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 04:49:36 -0700
Worth a look, even if it doesn't come through.
Paul
ibhttp://www.freewebs.com/punkbirder/earlisthenewgloria.htm
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Breffni Martin <bmartin AT REGINTEL.COM>
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:45:38 +0100
Cheers Mike, horned puffin, that was the one. I see that the extent of sea
ice is even more reduced this summer with another month of melting still to
go:
http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_daily_extent_hires.png
I wonder what the effect of russian fires could be on eastern vagrants -
might push birds to fly around fire areas pushing them further west (i
notice two red backed shrikes found in central bog this morning!)
Global fire map: http://geonetwork4.fao.org/firemap/
Breffni
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike O'Keeffe"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [IBN-L] Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
yesterday
> ...getting back to the original purpose of this hijacked post....
>
> The link below is worth a read and in line with comments made by some. So
> there does seem to be two feasible ways Short-tailed Shearwater could be
> making it into our waters. Perhaps the northern route is the more likely
> one afterall. You would have to be a brave seawatcher to head up to the
> arctic to verify if this species has indeed begun crossing the northern
> arctic! These must be some of the least visited parts of our planet.
>
> To quote David Sibley from a current thread on Frontiers of Bird
> Identification ... "On the identification of Short-tailed Shearwater, I
> agree with others that this is extremely difficult and for any reports in
> the Atlantic I would hope for very close and prolonged views and direct
> comparisons to Sooty Shearwater".
>
> Regards
>
> Mike
>
> http://www.sibleyguides.com/2010/09/birding-and-a-warming-arctic/
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Mike O'Keeffe <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 19:03:41 +0100
...getting back to the original purpose of this hijacked post....
The link below is worth a read and in line with comments made by some. So
there does seem to be two feasible ways Short-tailed Shearwater could be
making it into our waters. Perhaps the northern route is the more likely
one afterall. You would have to be a brave seawatcher to head up to the
arctic to verify if this species has indeed begun crossing the northern
arctic! These must be some of the least visited parts of our planet.
To quote David Sibley from a current thread on Frontiers of Bird
Identification ... "On the identification of Short-tailed Shearwater, I
agree with others that this is extremely difficult and for any reports in
the Atlantic I would hope for very close and prolonged views and direct
comparisons to Sooty Shearwater".
Regards
Mike
http://www.sibleyguides.com/2010/09/birding-and-a-warming-arctic/
http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: EASTERN OLLY - 391
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 13:06:21 EDT
With the further addition of 10 new species since my last update in July,
the total number of species now recorded in 2010 in combined British and
Irish land, air and sea space has now risen to 391 species.
The new additions are as follows -:
RED-NECKED STINT (a crippling adult in summer plumage at Ferrybridge,
Weymouth)
SHARP-TAILED SANDPIPER (a well-twitched adult on the River Humber at
Kilnsea, East Yorks)
CHIMNEY SWIFT (a briefly seen very early individual in County Cork)
CITRINE WAGTAIL (a wave of juveniles/first-winters this past week)
AQUATIC WARBLER (about 10 so far, none of which have been twitchable)
EASTERN OLIVACEOUS WARBLER (today's bird at Flamborough Head, East
Yorkshire)
BOOTED WARBLER (late afternoon bird on Blakeney Point, Norfolk)
SYKES'S BOOTED WARBLER (two individuals, with singles on Shetland and in
Northumberland, the latter yielding the first lifer of the year for many
British twitchers)
LESSER GREY SHRIKE (three-dayer in Kelling area, North Norfolk)
BLACK-HEADED BUNTING (brief male in Scottish Highland)
Lee G R Evans
British Birding Association
UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and
Conservationist
Keep up with Lee's daily exploits on his DIARY PAGE at
http://thebirdingdiariesofleeevans.blogspot.com/
Discussion Forum/Email Group: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/)
Rare Bird Alerts:
_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/)
_http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/_
(http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/)
Email Address: LGREUK400 AT aol.com
Website Address: _www.uk400clubonline.co.uk_
(http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/)
Related Blog Sites: _http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/_
(http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/) _
http://rarebirdsinthewesternpalearctic.blogspot.com/http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/_
(http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/) _
http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/_
(http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/)
_http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/_ (http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/)
_http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/_
(http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/)
_http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/_
(http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/)
_http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/_
(http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/)
Chaffinch House
8 Sandycroft Road
Little Chalfont
Amersham
Buckinghamshire
England
HP6 6QL
Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157
Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629
(Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences
in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North
America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and
other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders)
Subject: Easterly winds already reaping rewards
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 11:23:43 EDT
This afternoon, an EASTERN OLIVACEOUS WARBLER (elaeica) is showing very
well in the warm afternoon sunshine in the hedgerow just beyond the Old Fall
Plantation on the south side of Flamborough Head (East Yorkshire) - the
first twitchable individual to be recorded in that county. Although initially
elusive when Craig Thomas and others first found it, it has more recently
started to perform well and has been less skulking.
VIEWING INSTRUCTIONS: Park in the specially designated stubble field car
park on the north side of the main access road to Flamborough Head
(Lighthouse Road) just west of Old Fall Hedge and then follow the footpath
south to
the plantation and just beyond.
Also in Yorkshire, the apparent first-winter COLLARED FLYCATCHER remains
at Spurn Point for a third day, showing occasionally just north of The
Warren in bushes between Posts 11 & 12.and a COMMON ROSEFINCH is there at the
south end of the sheep field by the Heligoland Trap. Up to 5 BARRED WARBLERS
have been seen in the area in recent days.
The other big talking point is the unprecedented August arrival of LAPLAND
BUNTINGS in Britain, with birds of unknown origin flooding into the
Northern Isles, including an incredible 160+ on Fair Isle, 120 on North
Ronaldsay
(Orkney), 74 at the Butt of Lewis (Outer Hebrides) and up to 40 on the
Brough of Birsay (NW Orkney Mainland).
Elsewhere in the drift migrant camp, we have RED-BACKED SHRIKES at Bamburgh
Castle (Northumberland), Waxham Sands Holiday Camp (Norfolk), Cliffe Pools
RSPB (North Kent) and at Biggleswade Common (Beds), with BARRED WARBLERS
on Blakeney Point (Norfolk), in Kilnsea Churchyard (East Yorks), an ICTERINE
WARBLER remaining at Walsey Hills, Cley (Norfolk) and WRYNECKS at
Dungeness (Kent), Benacre Sluice (Suffolk), Middlebere Heath (Dorset), Tidmoor
Cove, The Fleet (Dorset) and at Wall Common, Steart (Somerset) (now dead).
Single GREENISH WARBLERS have recently been at St Mary's Island
(Northumberland) and East Hills, Wells (Norfolk) and a GREATER SHORT-TOED LARK
on Blakeney
Point.
In the West Country, Cornwall has recorded HOOPOE at the south end of The
Lizard, 2 DOTTEREL at Porthgwarra, whilst on the Isles of Scilly, a CITRINE
WAGTAIL is today on the Big Pool on St Agnes, a MELODIOUS WARBLER on Bryher
(with another on St Mary's at Harry's Walls), MONTAGU'S HARRIER on Tresco
The juvenile RED-NECKED PHALAROPE remains at Elmley Marshes RSPB (North
Kent), whilst a juvenile WHISKERED TERN that spent nearly 5 weeks in Cleveland
and was at Venus Pool in Salop on Sunday is now at Rutland Water (Leics)
for its second day (on Lagoon III and visible from Gadwall Hide)
In Scotland, the adult COMMON CRANE remains at Montrose basin (Angus)
whilst the juvenile SEMIPALMATED SANDPIPER continues at John Muir Country Park
at Tyninghame Haven (Lothian).
1-2 GREAT WHITE EGRETS continue to be seen at Meare Heath NR, Shapwick
(Somerset), with another long-stayer at Denge Marsh (East Kent), whilst the two
adult WHITE STORKS that arrived near Sutton Bingham Reservoir (Somerset)
yesterday evening remained in the area until 1000 hours this morning before
flying high north when the temperature heated up.
The weather conditions have been conducive to both Common and EUROPEAN
HONEY BUZZARD arrivals, with large numbers of the former and the first few dark
morph juveniles of the latter.
In IRELAND, there is a generous crop of Spanish-born juvenile GLOSSY IBISES
scattered about, a BARRED WARBLER on Tory Island (Co. Donegal), the rather
scruffy first-year AMERICAN HERRING GULL at Blennerville (Co. Kerry), the
resident SNOWY OWL and AMERICAN BLACK DUCK in County Mayo and good numbers
of arriving LAPLAND BUNTINGS.
Lee G R Evans
British Birding Association
UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and
Conservationist
Keep up with Lee's daily exploits on his DIARY PAGE at
http://thebirdingdiariesofleeevans.blogspot.com/
Discussion Forum/Email Group: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/)
Rare Bird Alerts:
_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/)
_http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/_
(http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/)
Email Address: LGREUK400 AT aol.com
Website Address: _www.uk400clubonline.co.uk_
(http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/)
Related Blog Sites: _http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/_
(http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/) _
http://rarebirdsinthewesternpalearctic.blogspot.com/http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/_
(http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/) _
http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/_
(http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/)
_http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/_ (http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/)
_http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/_
(http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/)
_http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/_
(http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/)
_http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/_
(http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/)
Chaffinch House
8 Sandycroft Road
Little Chalfont
Amersham
Buckinghamshire
England
HP6 6QL
Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157
Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629
(Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences
in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North
America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and
other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders)
Subject: Re: stolen 'scope
From: Eamonn <eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 09:23:18 +0100
Just in time for the arrival of Earl !
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of julian
wyllie
Sent: 01 September 2010 09:22
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: stolen 'scope
Hi,
Just a quick update to say my trusty Kowa has been tracked down and that we
shall be re-united within the next 48 hours. Happy days. And thankyou Harry,
Killian, Martin, Owen, Ronán & Steve.
Best wishes and Happy September, Julian.
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Steve Wing wrote:
> Julian,
> We have my VERY old and second rate scope here on Cape that Mary sometimes
> uses. You can borrow that if you want?
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Martin Styles
> wrote:
>
> > Julian,
> >
> > I'll be in Cork City tomorrow so I'll have a look in the Cash Converters
> > shop for you. That's one place it could turn up....
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:19:05 +0100, julian wyllie
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi all & particularly those in the Cork area,
> >>
> >> I found out this morning that my scope is missing, presumed stolen, from
> >> my
> >> home on Sherkin and reckon that there's half a chance that it may
> >> re-surface
> >> in the Cork area. It's a Kowa 820/620 series with angled eye-piece (I
> >> can't
> >> remember the exact model) and Kowa case (the case is actually for a
> >> straight
> >> eye-piece model, which may help to identify it). Other identifying
> >> features
> >> are that the eye-piece took a knock and consequently doesn't screw in as
> >> well as it should do and that the tripod mount (not universal screw,
> other
> >> sort & Manfrotto) is missing it's spring-clip thing and has to be
> >> tightened
> >> with a 2 cent piece. While it may not be the best or most modern 'scope
> in
> >> the land, it's the only one I have/had and there's no chance of me
> getting
> >> another, not before the autumn's out at least. Bummer. So if anyone sees
> a
> >> similar type Kowa for sale any place, please get in touch.
> >>
> >> Many thanks, Julian Wyllie
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Martin Styles
> > Ballincollig
> > Cork
> >
>
#####################################################################################
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Subject: Re: stolen 'scope
From: julian wyllie <jhwyllie AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 09:21:50 +0100
Hi,
Just a quick update to say my trusty Kowa has been tracked down and that we
shall be re-united within the next 48 hours. Happy days. And thankyou Harry,
Killian, Martin, Owen, Ronán & Steve.
Best wishes and Happy September, Julian.
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Steve Wing wrote:
> Julian,
> We have my VERY old and second rate scope here on Cape that Mary sometimes
> uses. You can borrow that if you want?
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Martin Styles
> wrote:
>
> > Julian,
> >
> > I'll be in Cork City tomorrow so I'll have a look in the Cash Converters
> > shop for you. That's one place it could turn up....
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:19:05 +0100, julian wyllie
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi all & particularly those in the Cork area,
> >>
> >> I found out this morning that my scope is missing, presumed stolen, from
> >> my
> >> home on Sherkin and reckon that there's half a chance that it may
> >> re-surface
> >> in the Cork area. It's a Kowa 820/620 series with angled eye-piece (I
> >> can't
> >> remember the exact model) and Kowa case (the case is actually for a
> >> straight
> >> eye-piece model, which may help to identify it). Other identifying
> >> features
> >> are that the eye-piece took a knock and consequently doesn't screw in as
> >> well as it should do and that the tripod mount (not universal screw,
> other
> >> sort & Manfrotto) is missing it's spring-clip thing and has to be
> >> tightened
> >> with a 2 cent piece. While it may not be the best or most modern 'scope
> in
> >> the land, it's the only one I have/had and there's no chance of me
> getting
> >> another, not before the autumn's out at least. Bummer. So if anyone sees
> a
> >> similar type Kowa for sale any place, please get in touch.
> >>
> >> Many thanks, Julian Wyllie
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Martin Styles
> > Ballincollig
> > Cork
> >
>
Subject: Re: Coomon Crane report on BirdGuides
From: Mícheál Casey <michealjcasey AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:38:08 +0100
Also I note that it referred to Common Crane rather than the much more rare
Coomon Crane I mentioned in the subject line.
Mícheál
On 31 Aug 2010, at 20:12, Dermot Breen wrote:
> Hi Mícheál
>
> Looks like it was a typo alright, its since been changed to Gibraltar Point
> NNR, Lincs.
>
> Dermot
>
> On 31 August 2010 16:55, Casey, Micheal
wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Anybody know anything about 2 Common Cranes reported at Gibraltar Point,
>> Co. Sligo on BirdGuides today?
>>
>> Nobody seems to have heard anything about themlocally, and nothing on
>> irishbirding.com - I wonder if they were actually seen at Gibraltar Point
>> in Lincolnshire.
>>
>> Mícheál
>>
>>
>> Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food
>>
>> The information contained in this email and in any attachments is
>> confidential and is designated solely for the attention and use of the
>> intended recipient(s). This information may be subject to legal and
>> professional privilege. If you are not an intended recipient of this email,
>> you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this message or any
>> part of it. If you have received this email in error, please notify the
>> sender immediately and delete all copies of this email from your computer
>> system(s).
>>
>> An Roinn Talmhaíochta, Iascaigh agus Bia
>>
>> Tá an t-eolais san ríomhphost seo, agus in aon ceangláin leis, faoi
>> phribhléid agus faoi rún agus le h-aghaigh an seolaí amháin. D’fhéadfadh
>> ábhar an seoladh seo bheith faoi phribhléid profisiúnta nó dlíthiúil. Mura
>> tusa an seolaí a bhí beartaithe leis an ríomhphost seo a fháil, tá cosc air,
>> nó aon chuid de, a úsáid, a chóipeál, nó a scaoileadh. Má tháinig sé chugat
>> de bharr dearmad, téigh i dteagmháil leis an seoltóir agus scrios an t-ábhar
>> ó do ríomhaire le do thoil.
>>
Subject: Re: Coomon Crane report on BirdGuides
From: Mícheál Casey <michealjcasey AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:35:44 +0100
Yes, thanks Dermot, I just logged on to say that BirdGuides replied to an
e-mail from me, saying it was an error.
Too bad!
Mícheál
On 31 Aug 2010, at 20:12, Dermot Breen wrote:
> Hi Mícheál
>
> Looks like it was a typo alright, its since been changed to Gibraltar Point
> NNR, Lincs.
>
> Dermot
>
> On 31 August 2010 16:55, Casey, Micheal
wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Anybody know anything about 2 Common Cranes reported at Gibraltar Point,
>> Co. Sligo on BirdGuides today?
>>
>> Nobody seems to have heard anything about themlocally, and nothing on
>> irishbirding.com - I wonder if they were actually seen at Gibraltar Point
>> in Lincolnshire.
>>
>> Mícheál
>>
>>
>> Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food
>>
>> The information contained in this email and in any attachments is
>> confidential and is designated solely for the attention and use of the
>> intended recipient(s). This information may be subject to legal and
>> professional privilege. If you are not an intended recipient of this email,
>> you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this message or any
>> part of it. If you have received this email in error, please notify the
>> sender immediately and delete all copies of this email from your computer
>> system(s).
>>
>> An Roinn Talmhaíochta, Iascaigh agus Bia
>>
>> Tá an t-eolais san ríomhphost seo, agus in aon ceangláin leis, faoi
>> phribhléid agus faoi rún agus le h-aghaigh an seolaí amháin. D’fhéadfadh
>> ábhar an seoladh seo bheith faoi phribhléid profisiúnta nó dlíthiúil. Mura
>> tusa an seolaí a bhí beartaithe leis an ríomhphost seo a fháil, tá cosc air,
>> nó aon chuid de, a úsáid, a chóipeál, nó a scaoileadh. Má tháinig sé chugat
>> de bharr dearmad, téigh i dteagmháil leis an seoltóir agus scrios an t-ábhar
>> ó do ríomhaire le do thoil.
>>
Subject: Re: Coomon Crane report on BirdGuides
From: Dermot Breen <breen.dermot AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:12:05 +0100
Hi Mícheál
Looks like it was a typo alright, its since been changed to Gibraltar Point
NNR, Lincs.
Dermot
On 31 August 2010 16:55, Casey, Micheal
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Anybody know anything about 2 Common Cranes reported at Gibraltar Point,
> Co. Sligo on BirdGuides today?
>
> Nobody seems to have heard anything about themlocally, and nothing on
> irishbirding.com - I wonder if they were actually seen at Gibraltar Point
> in Lincolnshire.
>
> Mícheál
>
>
> Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food
>
> The information contained in this email and in any attachments is
> confidential and is designated solely for the attention and use of the
> intended recipient(s). This information may be subject to legal and
> professional privilege. If you are not an intended recipient of this email,
> you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this message or any
> part of it. If you have received this email in error, please notify the
> sender immediately and delete all copies of this email from your computer
> system(s).
>
> An Roinn Talmhaíochta, Iascaigh agus Bia
>
> Tá an t-eolais san ríomhphost seo, agus in aon ceangláin leis, faoi
> phribhléid agus faoi rún agus le h-aghaigh an seolaí amháin. D’fhéadfadh
> ábhar an seoladh seo bheith faoi phribhléid profisiúnta nó dlíthiúil. Mura
> tusa an seolaí a bhí beartaithe leis an ríomhphost seo a fháil, tá cosc air,
> nó aon chuid de, a úsáid, a chóipeál, nó a scaoileadh. Má tháinig sé chugat
> de bharr dearmad, téigh i dteagmháil leis an seoltóir agus scrios an t-ábhar
> ó do ríomhaire le do thoil.
>
Subject: Coomon Crane report on BirdGuides
From: "Casey, Micheal" <Micheal.Casey AT AGRICULTURE.GOV.IE>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:55:38 +0100
Hi all,
Anybody know anything about 2 Common Cranes reported at Gibraltar Point, Co.
Sligo on BirdGuides today?
Nobody seems to have heard anything about themlocally, and nothing on
irishbirding.com - I wonder if they were actually seen at Gibraltar Point in
Lincolnshire.
MÃcheál
Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food
The information contained in this email and in any attachments is confidential
and is designated solely for the attention and use of the intended
recipient(s). This information may be subject to legal and professional
privilege. If you are not an intended recipient of this email, you must not
use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this message or any part of it. If
you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and
delete all copies of this email from your computer system(s).
An Roinn TalmhaÃochta, Iascaigh agus Bia
Tá an t-eolais san rÃomhphost seo, agus in aon ceangláin leis, faoi
phribhléid agus faoi rún agus le h-aghaigh an seolaà amháin. D’fhéadfadh
ábhar an seoladh seo bheith faoi phribhléid profisiúnta nó dlÃthiúil.
Mura tusa an seolaà a bhà beartaithe leis an rÃomhphost seo a fháil, tá
cosc air, nó aon chuid de, a úsáid, a chóipeál, nó a scaoileadh. Má
tháinig sé chugat de bharr dearmad, téigh i dteagmháil leis an seoltóir
agus scrios an t-ábhar ó do rÃomhaire le do thoil.
Subject: The life of Birds
From: Andrew Kelly <andrew_kelly_home AT HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:46:06 +0100
I have a VHS copy of The life of Birds, if anyone wants it they are welcome to
it.
E-mail privately
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Eamonn <eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:30:50 +0100
Surely you mean 'boring without answers' ? Give it over Rob. Even I am
p*ss off with this now.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Robert Vaughan
Sent: 31 August 2010 16:28
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
Pat,
Well, anything?
How about the new rumours emerging that you are starting a blog to rival
Owens,- birding without answers?
Rob
#####################################################################################
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared
by MailMarshal
#####################################################################################
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Robert Vaughan <robertvaug AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:28:14 +0100
Pat,
Well, anything?
How about the new rumours emerging that you are starting a blog to rival
Owens,- birding without answers?
Rob
Subject: Re: stolen 'scope
From: Steve Wing <steve.ccbo AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:01:57 +0100
Julian,
We have my VERY old and second rate scope here on Cape that Mary sometimes
uses. You can borrow that if you want?
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Martin Styles wrote:
> Julian,
>
> I'll be in Cork City tomorrow so I'll have a look in the Cash Converters
> shop for you. That's one place it could turn up....
>
> Martin
>
>
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:19:05 +0100, julian wyllie
> wrote:
>
> Hi all & particularly those in the Cork area,
>>
>> I found out this morning that my scope is missing, presumed stolen, from
>> my
>> home on Sherkin and reckon that there's half a chance that it may
>> re-surface
>> in the Cork area. It's a Kowa 820/620 series with angled eye-piece (I
>> can't
>> remember the exact model) and Kowa case (the case is actually for a
>> straight
>> eye-piece model, which may help to identify it). Other identifying
>> features
>> are that the eye-piece took a knock and consequently doesn't screw in as
>> well as it should do and that the tripod mount (not universal screw, other
>> sort & Manfrotto) is missing it's spring-clip thing and has to be
>> tightened
>> with a 2 cent piece. While it may not be the best or most modern 'scope in
>> the land, it's the only one I have/had and there's no chance of me getting
>> another, not before the autumn's out at least. Bummer. So if anyone sees a
>> similar type Kowa for sale any place, please get in touch.
>>
>> Many thanks, Julian Wyllie
>>
>>
>
> --
> Martin Styles
> Ballincollig
> Cork
>
Subject: Re: stolen 'scope
From: Martin Styles <mdstyles AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 14:26:44 +0100
Julian,
I'll be in Cork City tomorrow so I'll have a look in the Cash Converters
shop for you. That's one place it could turn up....
Martin
On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:19:05 +0100, julian wyllie
wrote:
> Hi all & particularly those in the Cork area,
>
> I found out this morning that my scope is missing, presumed stolen, from
> my
> home on Sherkin and reckon that there's half a chance that it may
> re-surface
> in the Cork area. It's a Kowa 820/620 series with angled eye-piece (I
> can't
> remember the exact model) and Kowa case (the case is actually for a
> straight
> eye-piece model, which may help to identify it). Other identifying
> features
> are that the eye-piece took a knock and consequently doesn't screw in as
> well as it should do and that the tripod mount (not universal screw,
> other
> sort & Manfrotto) is missing it's spring-clip thing and has to be
> tightened
> with a 2 cent piece. While it may not be the best or most modern 'scope
> in
> the land, it's the only one I have/had and there's no chance of me
> getting
> another, not before the autumn's out at least. Bummer. So if anyone sees
> a
> similar type Kowa for sale any place, please get in touch.
>
> Many thanks, Julian Wyllie
>
--
Martin Styles
Ballincollig
Cork
Subject: stolen 'scope
From: julian wyllie <jhwyllie AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:19:05 +0100
Hi all & particularly those in the Cork area,
I found out this morning that my scope is missing, presumed stolen, from my
home on Sherkin and reckon that there's half a chance that it may re-surface
in the Cork area. It's a Kowa 820/620 series with angled eye-piece (I can't
remember the exact model) and Kowa case (the case is actually for a straight
eye-piece model, which may help to identify it). Other identifying features
are that the eye-piece took a knock and consequently doesn't screw in as
well as it should do and that the tripod mount (not universal screw, other
sort & Manfrotto) is missing it's spring-clip thing and has to be tightened
with a 2 cent piece. While it may not be the best or most modern 'scope in
the land, it's the only one I have/had and there's no chance of me getting
another, not before the autumn's out at least. Bummer. So if anyone sees a
similar type Kowa for sale any place, please get in touch.
Many thanks, Julian Wyllie
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Robert Vaughan <robertvaug AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:50:39 +0100
Lee,
it is an honour and a priviledge to have the mighty and honourable Scotland
Yard Ornithological unit keeping an eye on us. I look forward to the
accurate, independent and un-biased final report on the matter.
Eamonn,
I have replied to you twice on this thread and not once have I mentioned
moths or giant bats (until now), so hopefully that should be enough to
convince you that I am not Owen.
Pat,
I am still looking forward to any answers to any of the questions I have put
to you. You accused Owen and I of being inaccurate, but have failed to
answer why your IRBC replacements are spreading the slanderous lies about a
sighting of Owens, using your name to add credibility to it?
You have also failed to tell me what first hand experience you have of Owen
that allowed you to make your decision that he birds without standards. What
exactly was it that you saw for yourself that made *you* question
*his*'observer integrity'? Why exactly was it that
* 'you'* put your signature on that letter?
Rob
Subject: Re: Dublin Glossy Ibis Youtube HD Video
From: Mark Shorten <mshorten AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 18:45:41 +0200
Paddy,
Great quality video, watching it in south of France but did have not seen any
glossys here this year
Mark
On 28 Aug 2010, at 13:56, Paddy O'Keeffe wrote:
> Folks
> I have uploaded a short video of the Portmarnock Glossy Ibis to Youtube. Best
viewed in HD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmWq3Q_mcNM
>
> Happy Days
> Best birding
> Paddy O'Keeffe
Subject: Dublin Glossy Ibis Youtube HD Video
From: Paddy O'Keeffe <okeeffe.patrickj AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:56:48 +0100
Folks
I have uploaded a short video of the Portmarnock Glossy Ibis to Youtube.
Best viewed in HD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmWq3Q_mcNM
Happy Days
Best birding
Paddy O'Keeffe
Subject: Art Exhibition by Michael O'Clery
From: Eric Dempsey <irishbirdnews AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 07:52:18 +0100
Hi all
would like to use this forum to let everyone know that an exhibition of
paintings and new plates (from the forthcoming Complete Field Guide to
Ireland's Birds) by Michael O'Clery will begin today at Castle Espie, Down and
will run until 12th Sept. Well worth a look if you're in the area.
Eric
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:18:00 EDT
Rob
I have never denied that there are 101 internet sites about me - full of
the type of drivel that Owen churns out and full of libellous material, none
of which is true incidentally (if you have a case, then publish it here).
The Invisible Man is well known for his views and the reasons behind it are
also very well known on this side of the Irish Sea. Remember, this is a guy
who claimed on his website that Evans had not seen the Wexford Great
Spotted Cuckoo, even though Killian Mullarney had picked me up from Rosslare
Harbour and driven me to the bird ! It is also very well known the sort of
drivel produced by Adrian Riley in his book, who incidentally never recorded
more than 349 of his claimed 380 birds (do you want to see a list of his
strings, most of which were rejected by BBRC).
You clearly do not know anything about the history of BBRC and the
behaviour of Tim Sharrock and hence my reasons for not submitting records to
the
Committee (a quick search of the internet of the name Tim Sharrock and the
Bedford Times should provide some interesting reading for you). He renegaded
on an agreement he had with me in relation to records but that was nothing
to what he was about to be convicted of.
I do not deny that I seriously polarise birders - they either love or
loathe you - that is the cost of being the self-proclaimed 'policeman' of
British birding and the consequences of making judgements about claimed bird
sightings and adding or negating birds from life or year lists. There is no way
around that I am afraid and I respect the fact that many people will be
alienated by such behaviour. That's life.
Cheers
Lee Evans
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Steve Wing <steve.ccbo AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 21:07:11 +0100
Thats a relief!
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Eamonn O'Donnell wrote:
> I should say before knickers start to get twisted, I was joking about the
> Diver.
>
> Bob
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Eamonn O'Donnell >wrote:
>
> > This is definitely Owen ! Someone should tell Rob.
> >
> > Now, back to the possible Short-tailed Shearwater or, perhaps, did you
> hear
> > the one about the Pacific Diver off Blannan :-)?
> >
> > Sent with love, Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Robert Vaughan >wrote:
> >
> >> Lee,
> >> Obviously hypocrisy is as lost on you as geography.
> >> Where to start? You come on to the Irish Bird Network, tell us how you
> >> don't
> >> submit your records to the British Rarity Committee and then back up the
> >> IRBC.
> >> You tell us you don't know Owen but you get your opinion of him from his
> >> mails and blog. It is remarkable how similar your summary of Owen is and
> >> general feeling birders in Britain have for you. There are endless links
> I
> >> put up here, mails I could copy from other bird networks of your
> behaviour
> >> towards other birders, your grossly inaccurate and deliberately
> >> condescending posts about 'rival' birders and their sightings, but you
> >> already know this. I have a strong feeling that one of the reasons you
> >> post
> >> on the IBN is because you have been laughed off birdforum so many times
> in
> >> the past.
> >> You also obviously haven't a notion what this thread is about.'He may be
> a
> >> good birder (and
> >> there is no denying that from what I have heard from Irish birders)',
> the
> >> whole point of this argument is that he is a good birder and that the
> IRBC
> >> are supposed to base their decisions on the bird and not the birder.
> This
> >> is
> >> quite clearly not the case and you just proved it. Thanks.
> >>
> >> 5 years ago, before the infamous letter, I don't think anyone would have
> >> considered Owen in any way how you describe him. Even on this forum, his
> >> accusers have commented on his friendly and helpful demeanor in the
> field.
> >> His 'inaccurate, aggressive and vitriolic' (to quote Pat) posts are only
> >> ever posted in response to many of the inaccurate and attacking posts by
> >> others on this forum. Even now there is now reply to one rumour that has
> >> been proven wrong that was being spread by current IRBC members.
> >> And as for Owens blog, everyone has the right to satirize public
> figures,
> >> it
> >> is entrenched as a core of free speech. It merely balances the scales,
> as
> >> many of the people that he mentions, have bitched about all and sundry,
> >> behind peoples back, for years. He is not hiding behind any false names,
> >> such as Yarislav, or stormin Normin etc etc.
> >>
> >> And its not the only website which relates to you, not a fan of this one
> >> myself, but I am sure you know it well.
> >> http://www.webbsteve.freeserve.co.uk/
> >>
> >> Rob
> >>
> >
> >
>
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Eamonn O'Donnell <bobolink300 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:38:52 +0100
I should say before knickers start to get twisted, I was joking about the
Diver.
Bob
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Eamonn O'Donnell wrote:
> This is definitely Owen ! Someone should tell Rob.
>
> Now, back to the possible Short-tailed Shearwater or, perhaps, did you hear
> the one about the Pacific Diver off Blannan :-)?
>
> Sent with love, Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Robert Vaughan wrote:
>
>> Lee,
>> Obviously hypocrisy is as lost on you as geography.
>> Where to start? You come on to the Irish Bird Network, tell us how you
>> don't
>> submit your records to the British Rarity Committee and then back up the
>> IRBC.
>> You tell us you don't know Owen but you get your opinion of him from his
>> mails and blog. It is remarkable how similar your summary of Owen is and
>> general feeling birders in Britain have for you. There are endless links I
>> put up here, mails I could copy from other bird networks of your behaviour
>> towards other birders, your grossly inaccurate and deliberately
>> condescending posts about 'rival' birders and their sightings, but you
>> already know this. I have a strong feeling that one of the reasons you
>> post
>> on the IBN is because you have been laughed off birdforum so many times in
>> the past.
>> You also obviously haven't a notion what this thread is about.'He may be a
>> good birder (and
>> there is no denying that from what I have heard from Irish birders)', the
>> whole point of this argument is that he is a good birder and that the IRBC
>> are supposed to base their decisions on the bird and not the birder. This
>> is
>> quite clearly not the case and you just proved it. Thanks.
>>
>> 5 years ago, before the infamous letter, I don't think anyone would have
>> considered Owen in any way how you describe him. Even on this forum, his
>> accusers have commented on his friendly and helpful demeanor in the field.
>> His 'inaccurate, aggressive and vitriolic' (to quote Pat) posts are only
>> ever posted in response to many of the inaccurate and attacking posts by
>> others on this forum. Even now there is now reply to one rumour that has
>> been proven wrong that was being spread by current IRBC members.
>> And as for Owens blog, everyone has the right to satirize public figures,
>> it
>> is entrenched as a core of free speech. It merely balances the scales, as
>> many of the people that he mentions, have bitched about all and sundry,
>> behind peoples back, for years. He is not hiding behind any false names,
>> such as Yarislav, or stormin Normin etc etc.
>>
>> And its not the only website which relates to you, not a fan of this one
>> myself, but I am sure you know it well.
>> http://www.webbsteve.freeserve.co.uk/
>>
>> Rob
>>
>
>
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Eamonn O'Donnell <bobolink300 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:34:14 +0100
This is definitely Owen ! Someone should tell Rob.
Now, back to the possible Short-tailed Shearwater or, perhaps, did you hear
the one about the Pacific Diver off Blannan :-)?
Sent with love, Bob
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Robert Vaughan wrote:
> Lee,
> Obviously hypocrisy is as lost on you as geography.
> Where to start? You come on to the Irish Bird Network, tell us how you
> don't
> submit your records to the British Rarity Committee and then back up the
> IRBC.
> You tell us you don't know Owen but you get your opinion of him from his
> mails and blog. It is remarkable how similar your summary of Owen is and
> general feeling birders in Britain have for you. There are endless links I
> put up here, mails I could copy from other bird networks of your behaviour
> towards other birders, your grossly inaccurate and deliberately
> condescending posts about 'rival' birders and their sightings, but you
> already know this. I have a strong feeling that one of the reasons you post
> on the IBN is because you have been laughed off birdforum so many times in
> the past.
> You also obviously haven't a notion what this thread is about.'He may be a
> good birder (and
> there is no denying that from what I have heard from Irish birders)', the
> whole point of this argument is that he is a good birder and that the IRBC
> are supposed to base their decisions on the bird and not the birder. This
> is
> quite clearly not the case and you just proved it. Thanks.
>
> 5 years ago, before the infamous letter, I don't think anyone would have
> considered Owen in any way how you describe him. Even on this forum, his
> accusers have commented on his friendly and helpful demeanor in the field.
> His 'inaccurate, aggressive and vitriolic' (to quote Pat) posts are only
> ever posted in response to many of the inaccurate and attacking posts by
> others on this forum. Even now there is now reply to one rumour that has
> been proven wrong that was being spread by current IRBC members.
> And as for Owens blog, everyone has the right to satirize public figures,
> it
> is entrenched as a core of free speech. It merely balances the scales, as
> many of the people that he mentions, have bitched about all and sundry,
> behind peoples back, for years. He is not hiding behind any false names,
> such as Yarislav, or stormin Normin etc etc.
>
> And its not the only website which relates to you, not a fan of this one
> myself, but I am sure you know it well.
> http://www.webbsteve.freeserve.co.uk/
>
> Rob
>
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Robert Vaughan <robertvaug AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 19:56:23 +0100
Lee,
Obviously hypocrisy is as lost on you as geography.
Where to start? You come on to the Irish Bird Network, tell us how you don't
submit your records to the British Rarity Committee and then back up the
IRBC.
You tell us you don't know Owen but you get your opinion of him from his
mails and blog. It is remarkable how similar your summary of Owen is and
general feeling birders in Britain have for you. There are endless links I
put up here, mails I could copy from other bird networks of your behaviour
towards other birders, your grossly inaccurate and deliberately
condescending posts about 'rival' birders and their sightings, but you
already know this. I have a strong feeling that one of the reasons you post
on the IBN is because you have been laughed off birdforum so many times in
the past.
You also obviously haven't a notion what this thread is about.'He may be a
good birder (and
there is no denying that from what I have heard from Irish birders)', the
whole point of this argument is that he is a good birder and that the IRBC
are supposed to base their decisions on the bird and not the birder. This is
quite clearly not the case and you just proved it. Thanks.
5 years ago, before the infamous letter, I don't think anyone would have
considered Owen in any way how you describe him. Even on this forum, his
accusers have commented on his friendly and helpful demeanor in the field.
His 'inaccurate, aggressive and vitriolic' (to quote Pat) posts are only
ever posted in response to many of the inaccurate and attacking posts by
others on this forum. Even now there is now reply to one rumour that has
been proven wrong that was being spread by current IRBC members.
And as for Owens blog, everyone has the right to satirize public figures, it
is entrenched as a core of free speech. It merely balances the scales, as
many of the people that he mentions, have bitched about all and sundry,
behind peoples back, for years. He is not hiding behind any false names,
such as Yarislav, or stormin Normin etc etc.
And its not the only website which relates to you, not a fan of this one
myself, but I am sure you know it well.
http://www.webbsteve.freeserve.co.uk/
Rob
Subject: Dublin GLOSSY IBISES
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:34:48 EDT
I have just had a reply from Spain and can confirm that the colour-ringed
juvenile GLOSSY IBIS was ringed this breeding season at the large colony at
the isolated reserve location to the Northeast of El Rocio on the Coto
Donana - the same locality from whence last year's irruption originated.
Many, many thanks to all that responded to my email request - it was very
much appreciated
The Glossy Ibis colony that this relates to is a relatively new phenomenon
and is a soaraway success, burgeoning from just a handful of pairs at the
turn of the century to a remarkable near 400 pairs in 2010. In fact, this
SEO reserve has fully protected a huge number of other species, particularly
egrets, Purple Herons and Little Bitterns - the only forseeable challenge
to this success being severe drought
I have also traced a number of colour-marked RUFF sightings from the early
autumn - these all emanating from a location on the Dutch polders
Good Birding Always
Lee G R Evans
British Birding Association
UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and
Conservationist
Keep up with Lee's daily exploits on his DIARY PAGE at
http://thebirdingdiariesofleeevans.blogspot.com/
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(http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/) _
http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/_
(http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/)
_http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/_ (http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/)
_http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/_
(http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/)
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(http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/)
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(http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/)
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Subject: Re: Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:24:51 EDT
It is interesting to see this northward post-breeding dispersal of Donana
Glossy Ibises for a second autumn running. Does this mean that they are
struggling to find food in Spain or is it just part of a natural post-breeding
dispersal, which we also see with Pied Avocet, Great White Egret, Little
Egret, Yellow-legged Gull and other Mediterranean species, and may also
impart on the assorted White-headed Duck and Marbled Duck records we have
frequently had in late summer/early autumn on the South Coast?
Best wishes
Lee
Subject: Re: Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin
From: Paddy O'Keeffe <okeeffe.patrickj AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:15:31 +0100
Lee G R Evans wrote:
> Many thanks Paddy - very much appreciated
>
> Have you already got a history on it or shall I raise a query
>
> Best wishes
>
> Lee
>
>
Lee
I have already dispatched the ring number to Estación Biológica de
Doñana, Spain and I'll report back when I get a response from them.
Best Birding,
Paddy O'Keeffe
Subject: Re: Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:48:31 EDT
Many thanks Paddy - very much appreciated
Have you already got a history on it or shall I raise a query
Best wishes
Lee
Subject: Re: Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin
From: Paddy O'Keeffe <okeeffe.patrickj AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 20:37:31 +0100
Lee G R Evans wrote:
>
> Harry
>
> Do you have the ring details at all of this GLOSSY IBIS?
>
> Best wishes
>
> Lee
>
>
>
>
>
Lee
The ring number on the Glossy Ibis is U6U.
Best Birding
Paddy O'Keeffe
Subject: Re: Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:17:13 EDT
Harry
Do you have the ring details at all of this GLOSSY IBIS?
Best wishes
Lee
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:46:41 EDT
In a message dated 26/08/2010 18:18:34 GMT Daylight Time,
robertvaug AT GMAIL.COM writes:
An almost identical bird was seen at Sumburgh(?) head on Shetland around
the same time and that went several days as a pallid before anyone
questioned the bird. How many mistakes would he have to admit before you
start saying he has no standards because he constantly makes mistakes?!
What
is the magic number we should aim for of identifications versus
Not true. I saw the images of this bird shortly after they were placed on
the Shetland website and phoned Paul Harvey up to see if he had seen it. I
exclaimed to him that the bird portrayed in the images was a juvenile COMMON
SWIFT. He hadn't seen it unfortunately but did make the effort to travel
down to Sumburgh to see it and once observed critically, contacted me to say
that he agreed with my synopsis. I later emailed Rob Fray who runs the
website and notified him of my reservations and after four days, he slightly
amended his captions.
As for Owen Foley, just one glance at his own website speaks volumes - who
is he to take the piss out of both Killian Mullarney and I on such a
frequent basis? For a start, he does not know me one iota and I find his
website
both insulting and highly cringeworthy. What has he ever done for the wider
birding fraternity? What books has he published and where has he ever
forwarded our knowledge of difficult identifications? He is one very nasty
piece of work who has no place on this forum. He may be a good birder (and
there is no denying that from what I have heard from Irish birders) but his
attitude is absolutely appalling and clearly why the majority of Irish birders
don't wasn't anything to do with him or don't wish to hear about his
offensive opposition to certain members of the IRBC.
Sorry for the rant but the tone of support for this character is well out
of sync.
Regards
Lee Evans
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Robert Vaughan <robertvaug AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 18:17:58 +0100
Pat,
before you go, maybe you could help me correct some of my inaccuracies.
Since apparently nobody else wants to deal with me, perhaps you may have
more luck.
If you were to ask around you may be able to trace the origins of the
'goshawk' rumour, the current IRBC crop could start you off.
While you're at it, you could also ask why your name was mentioned in
certain recitals of the story by those in the IRBC.
While your at it still, you could ask the instigators of Owen's downfall at
the 'open forum' if this rumour had anything to do with their opinions.
Perhaps your and my own inaccuracies could be traced to the same rumour
mill?
All this time I thought you had first hand experience of Owens lack of
standards having seen one of his finds and disagreed with the id, but
obviously I was wrong again. Perhaps you could tell me just on what you are
basing your claims that Owen lacks 'criticality'? As far as I am aware now,
you have not seen a bird he has claimed and thought he may be wrong? After
all, you did accept his submissions up to then? Could it be that you like
others are being led by inaccurate rumours being spread by certain people?
I for one would love to hear how you came to this conclusion on your own
experiences and weren't just led.
I too, would love to see this thread end, but again it just looks like it
will keep on rolling. Once more a member/former member of the IRBC has come
on, talked of inaccuracies on our part, then run for the hills without
answering any of the questions put before them.
Eamonn,
Owen found and called a pallid swift on Hook head a few years back. He was
with Mark Carmody at the time and many birders were setting off to twitch
it. HE realised he was wrong and put the news out. Here is a link to the
shots of the bird.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30802879 AT N08/
Even with such excellent photographs it still looks quite good for a pallid.
It would have been very difficult to identify in the field. The excellent
photographs aren't an accurate reflection of an incredibly fast bird on a
windy day.
An almost identical bird was seen at Sumburgh(?) head on Shetland around
the same time and that went several days as a pallid before anyone
questioned the bird. How many mistakes would he have to admit before you
start saying he has no standards because he constantly makes mistakes?! What
is the magic number we should aim for of identifications versus
mis-identifications to be honest and trustworthy in your opinion?
A few years ago while in Clare, Owen and myself travelled up to Liscannor to
see the buff bellied pipit that had been reported for well over a week at
the time. We had brief views of a flighty pipit that a local birder said was
the buff bellied, we both knew instantly it wasn't a buff bellied, but a
water/ littoralis type. Owen id'd the bird on call as a water and
subsequently the finder admitted he was wrong and accepted it was a water.
Did he lack 'criticality' in this instance?
How many times have birders twitched a rarity and happily ticked it without
questioning it. Many people ticked the Kilcoole 'Marsh' Warbler a few years
ago. Quite a few travelled up North for wintering 'spotted' sandpiper, spent
plenty of time enjoying it before finding out they had spent the day
watching a common sand when they got home. Do these people lack criticality?
Can they look forward to a letter? That would be interesting, considering
atleast one of them is on the IRBC now!
Sorry for boring anyone further,
Rob
Subject: Re: Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin
From: Eamonn O'Donnell <bobolink300 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:35:26 +0100
As the Ibis flies, Harry, Portmarnock is about a 10/15 minute flight from
Rogerstown.
Bob
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Harry Hussey wrote:
> Hi all,
> Check out the pic of two Glossy Ibis at Portmarnock, Co. Dublin on
> irishbirding.com: one bird is colour-ringed, apparently from the project
> in the Coto Donana as per http://www.cr-birding.be. There was a report of
> 10 Glossy Ibis at Rogerstown a few days ago, presumably the flock just split
> up, as has happened on a number of occasions in recent years in Britain
> following autumn influxes. Is Portmarnock far from Rogerstown?
> Also, and I may be wrong, but surely the two birds are both juveniles,
> as distinct from an adult and juvenile as captioned?
> Regards,
> Harry
>
>
>
>
Subject: Colour-ringed Glossy Ibis in Co. Dublin
From: Harry Hussey <hhussey3 AT YAHOO.COM>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:21:54 +0000
Hi all,
Check out the pic of two Glossy Ibis at Portmarnock, Co. Dublin on
irishbirding.com: one bird is colour-ringed, apparently from the project in the
Coto Donana as per http://www.cr-birding.be. There was a report of 10 Glossy
Ibis at Rogerstown a few days ago, presumably the flock just split up, as has
happened on a number of occasions in recent years in Britain following autumn
influxes. Is Portmarnock far from Rogerstown?
Also, and I may be wrong, but surely the two birds are both juveniles, as
distinct from an adult and juvenile as captioned?
Regards,
Harry
Subject: Re: Anybody bored by this...please do not read!
From: Phil Davis <phildavis AT IOL.IE>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:06:08 +0100
Sorry Pat , I should have said "you are making unfounded assumptions" not
"you are AGAIN making unfounded assumptions,
as I have no proof you have made other unfounded assumptions.
Phil.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Davis"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:01 PM
Subject: Anybody bored by this...please do not read!
> Pat, You are again making unfounded assumptions...I am not against record
> assessment, I am against biased record assessment and biased record
> assessors. Antbody bored by this please do not read.!
> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Patrick Lonergan"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>
>
> Rob
> Irrespective of what you were told, and by whom, it is totally incorrect
> and illustrates what I said in my previous message to you.
>
> Apart from a message from Phil, who for as long as I have been birding has
> been openly anti record assessment and (I don't think I am being unfair
> there Phil), there has not been a single message of surrport despite both
> of your atempts to raise the issue. In contrast, there have been several
> messages asking to end the subject.
>
> I will not bore people anymore. I think the messages speak for themselves.
>
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: Robert Vaughan
> Date: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:40 pm
> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>
>> Pat,
>> If this was not the case, I apologise. It was your name told to
>> me by 2
>> current IRBC members during their rendition of this story. Another
>> two people told me the story but wouldn't tell me who had seen
>> it, just said
>> it was an IRBC member.
>> How many others have been told this story? Is it any wonder how
>> a reputation
>> gets destroyed with these kind of innacurate rumours flying
>> about? Is there
>> anyway to defend yourself with this kind of cowardly attack?
>> Rob
>
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Eamonn O'Donnell <bobolink300 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:01:16 +0100
I would like to continue to bore you all just briefly and ask you, Rob, has
Owen EVER admitted to being wrong, in public, with any bird identification ?
I believe not and this is why nobody asks him, ANYMORE.
Eamonn
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Patrick Lonergan wrote:
> Rob
> Irrespective of what you were told, and by whom, it is totally incorrect
> and illustrates what I said in my previous message to you.
>
> Apart from a message from Phil, who for as long as I have been birding has
> been openly anti record assessment and (I don't think I am being unfair
> there Phil), there has not been a single message of surrport despite both of
> your atempts to raise the issue. In contrast, there have been several
> messages asking to end the subject.
>
> I will not bore people anymore. I think the messages speak for themselves.
>
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Vaughan
> Date: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:40 pm
> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>
> > Pat,
> > If this was not the case, I apologise. It was your name told to
> > me by 2
> > current IRBC members during their rendition of this story. Another
> > two people told me the story but wouldn't tell me who had seen
> > it, just said
> > it was an IRBC member.
> > How many others have been told this story? Is it any wonder how
> > a reputation
> > gets destroyed with these kind of innacurate rumours flying
> > about? Is there
> > anyway to defend yourself with this kind of cowardly attack?
> > Rob
>
Subject: Anybody bored by this...please do not read!
From: Phil Davis <phildavis AT IOL.IE>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:01:19 +0100
Pat, You are again making unfounded assumptions...I am not against record
assessment, I am against biased record assessment and biased record
assessors. Antbody bored by this please do not read.!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Lonergan"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
Rob
Irrespective of what you were told, and by whom, it is totally incorrect and
illustrates what I said in my previous message to you.
Apart from a message from Phil, who for as long as I have been birding has
been openly anti record assessment and (I don't think I am being unfair
there Phil), there has not been a single message of surrport despite both of
your atempts to raise the issue. In contrast, there have been several
messages asking to end the subject.
I will not bore people anymore. I think the messages speak for themselves.
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Vaughan
Date: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:40 pm
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Pat,
> If this was not the case, I apologise. It was your name told to
> me by 2
> current IRBC members during their rendition of this story. Another
> two people told me the story but wouldn't tell me who had seen
> it, just said
> it was an IRBC member.
> How many others have been told this story? Is it any wonder how
> a reputation
> gets destroyed with these kind of innacurate rumours flying
> about? Is there
> anyway to defend yourself with this kind of cowardly attack?
> Rob
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Patrick Lonergan <pat.lonergan AT UCD.IE>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:50:28 +0100
Rob
Irrespective of what you were told, and by whom, it is totally incorrect and
illustrates what I said in my previous message to you.
Apart from a message from Phil, who for as long as I have been birding has been
openly anti record assessment and (I don't think I am being unfair there
Phil), there has not been a single message of surrport despite both of your
atempts to raise the issue. In contrast, there have been several messages
asking to end the subject.
I will not bore people anymore. I think the messages speak for themselves.
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Vaughan
Date: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:40 pm
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Pat,
> If this was not the case, I apologise. It was your name told to
> me by 2
> current IRBC members during their rendition of this story. Another
> two people told me the story but wouldn't tell me who had seen
> it, just said
> it was an IRBC member.
> How many others have been told this story? Is it any wonder how
> a reputation
> gets destroyed with these kind of innacurate rumours flying
> about? Is there
> anyway to defend yourself with this kind of cowardly attack?
> Rob
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Robert Vaughan <robertvaug AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:39:21 +0100
Pat,
If this was not the case, I apologise. It was your name told to me by 2
current IRBC members during their rendition of this story. Another
two people told me the story but wouldn't tell me who had seen it, just said
it was an IRBC member.
How many others have been told this story? Is it any wonder how a reputation
gets destroyed with these kind of innacurate rumours flying about? Is there
anyway to defend yourself with this kind of cowardly attack?
Rob
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Patrick Lonergan <pat.lonergan AT UCD.IE>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:27:32 +0100
Rob
I'm afraid, yet again, you are providing completely inaccurate information. You
are mixing me up with someone else. The first I knew of this Goshawk episode
was your email tonight - I certainly was not present on the day and knew
nothing about it. Unless of course you meant another Pat, in which case I
apologise.
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Vaughan
Date: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:02 pm
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Eamonn,
> Reputation counts for very little in birding circles, the type
> of cowardly
> behaviour exhibited by so many means that nobody is safe. Two simple
> examples-
>
> Ronan is an extremely competent and experienced birder, has seen
> countlessleaches in native Donegal, and had he seen the madeiran
> on his own, I very
> much doubt Coveney would have been in so quick to dismiss it.
> Guilty by
> association, Ronan's reputation immediately be-littled just by
> the pure
> co-incidence of sitting on Galley and independently finding and
> identifying the madeiran. My attackers were even more pathetic, hiding
> behind the pseudo name of a Slovakian tourist.
>
> Several years ago Owen, Conor and Donal had a goshawk in the forgotten
> corner of Tacumshin. Our good friend Pat also saw this bird,
> but, he thought
> it was a peregrine falcon. Instead of saying anything to Owen,
> Conor or
> Donal, he told an endless array of 'buddies', and up until very
> recently,Owen had no idea about this. When this type of behind
> the back bitching goes
> on, how can anyone defend themselves? Pat has had 6 years to
> contact Owen
> about this, but has just continued to slander him behind his
> back. Was it a
> Gos? I don't know, and I don't really care. Any time in the past
> where there
> has been a difference of opinion over a birds identification, it is
> questioned. Observers are allowed to talk about the
> identification, but why
> is this not so with Owen, why is there always the same little group
> spreading this story? Why has 6 years passed and not a single
> person had a
> pair and questioned Owen about this if they think he is wrong?
> Reputationcan't be defended when you don't know who is spreading
> rumours behind your
> back.
>
> So as for losing my reputation by continuing this thread, I will
> continue to
> travel around birding with Owen, so it is only a matter of time
> before the
> tatters of my remaining reputation are gone anyway.
>
> As for anyone who finds this thread boring or repetitive,
> apoligies. It is
> repetitive, it has gone on far too long. The same questions
> being asked and
> ignored. The 'old' irbc saying it has nothing to do with them
> now, and the
> new batch saying it wasn't them who implemented it so nothing to
> do with
> them. It has gone on long enough and unfortunately it is only
> going to
> continue dragging on, because there are no answers forthcoming.
> Rob
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Robert Vaughan <robertvaug AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:01:41 +0100
Eamonn,
Reputation counts for very little in birding circles, the type of cowardly
behaviour exhibited by so many means that nobody is safe. Two simple
examples-
Ronan is an extremely competent and experienced birder, has seen countless
leaches in native Donegal, and had he seen the madeiran on his own, I very
much doubt Coveney would have been in so quick to dismiss it. Guilty by
association, Ronan's reputation immediately be-littled just by the pure
co-incidence of sitting on Galley and independently finding and
identifying the madeiran. My attackers were even more pathetic, hiding
behind the pseudo name of a Slovakian tourist.
Several years ago Owen, Conor and Donal had a goshawk in the forgotten
corner of Tacumshin. Our good friend Pat also saw this bird, but, he thought
it was a peregrine falcon. Instead of saying anything to Owen, Conor or
Donal, he told an endless array of 'buddies', and up until very recently,
Owen had no idea about this. When this type of behind the back bitching goes
on, how can anyone defend themselves? Pat has had 6 years to contact Owen
about this, but has just continued to slander him behind his back. Was it a
Gos? I don't know, and I don't really care. Any time in the past where there
has been a difference of opinion over a birds identification, it is
questioned. Observers are allowed to talk about the identification, but why
is this not so with Owen, why is there always the same little group
spreading this story? Why has 6 years passed and not a single person had a
pair and questioned Owen about this if they think he is wrong? Reputation
can't be defended when you don't know who is spreading rumours behind your
back.
So as for losing my reputation by continuing this thread, I will continue to
travel around birding with Owen, so it is only a matter of time before the
tatters of my remaining reputation are gone anyway.
As for anyone who finds this thread boring or repetitive, apoligies. It is
repetitive, it has gone on far too long. The same questions being asked and
ignored. The 'old' irbc saying it has nothing to do with them now, and the
new batch saying it wasn't them who implemented it so nothing to do with
them. It has gone on long enough and unfortunately it is only going to
continue dragging on, because there are no answers forthcoming.
Rob
Subject: Mega Mega Boring
From: Hugh Delaney <hughdelaney AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 02:57:02 +0100
So don't post it Phil - even with wine taken!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Davis"
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Sent: Tuesday, 24 August, 2010 22:07:14 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland,
Portugal
Subject: Re: Boring
So don't read it Martin.
Phil.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Styles"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: Boring
> Yes, informative the first time, but do we need reminding of it every
> couple of months? I'm sick of reading it.
>
> M
>
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:04:43 +0100, Séamus Feeney
> wrote:
>
>> Boring for some, informative for others. I've seen people show their
>> true colours here on IBN. Thanks to regular un-moderated outbursts from
>> some I have some idea of what is out there, and I'm not talking about
>> birds. As I said informative.
>>
>> Séamus.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Edward Carty"
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 6:00 AM
>> To:
>> Subject: Boring
>>
>>> Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn,
>>> Lads can all this IRBC V
>>> Owen V Rob V Whoever be done directly with the Committee instead of on
>>> the IBN..........its gone full circle several times at this
>>> stage.........Ed
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 23/8/10, Phil Davis wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Phil Davis
>>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>>> Date: Monday, 23 August, 2010, 14:38
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Pat, might I suggest that maybe the reason for the lack of response
>>> to Robs mail does not show a lack of support but maybe frustration and
>>> a feeling of inability to change the status quo.
>>> Now you are "off " the committee and feel free to talk on this subject,
>>> can I ask "do you still think you were right to be involved in the
>>> penning of that letter, and why? " Given the last sentence in your
>>> mail, it would appear that your opinion is still the same.Despite the
>>> fact that you admit Owen finds rare birds, you maintain he has no
>>> standards, as a birder who has also found many rare birds and was also
>>> accused of having no standards, I would dearly like to know what these
>>> standards are!
>>> John....I apologise if my last mail inferred that you were one of the
>>> "usual suspects", this was not my intention.I have always had the
>>> highest regard for you as a person and a birder but I have to say I was
>>> surprised by your mail on the Madeiran, I thought it was very negative
>>> and reminded me of the many times I have heard other birders slagging
>>> peoples finds, with little or no justification.
>>> Eamonn....glad you could find the time to read and reply to Robs post.
>>> IRBC Members past and present....get off the fence, take a deep breath
>>> and be honest with yourselves, do you/did you agree with the letter
>>> sent to Owen....
>>> Phil.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Lonergan"
>>>
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:21 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>>
>>>
>>> RobWe don’t
>>> know each other; I think we may have met in a crowd once or twice. As
>>> a past member of the IRBC, I am one of those who penned the infamous
>>> letter to Owen Foley. It has been IRBC policy not to discuss such
>>> matters on a public forum like IBN, but as I am now ‘off’ the committee
>>> I guess I can say
>>> something. The complete lack of response from anyone to your email of
>>> August 12th, culminating in your attempt to raise the issue again
>>> today, should suggest to you that perhaps your views do not have the
>>> support of 98% of people as you indicated. Could it be that perhaps you
>>> are in the minority? I think it demonstrates clearly that most people
>>> do not care, and do not want to engage with you on the subject,
>>> possibly because many of your posts have become as inaccurate,
>>> aggressive and vitriolic as Owen’s. Despite what you may think, no one
>>> took any pleasure in writing the letter to Owen. We had just introduced
>>> the new method of recording, reflected in the monthly excel sheet that
>>> appears on the IRBC website. Even the most cynical (or
>>> sceptical….John??) will admit that this has been a major step forward
>>> in recording, with relatively few of the rare birds being seen annually
>>> slipping through the net, compared to the case prior to its
>>> establishment.
>>> Everything possible was and is done to ensure that the list is as
>>> accurate and complete as possible. As you are aware, with many species
>>> removed from the list requiring formal descriptions, the accuracy of
>>> the list is dependent on the accuracy of the information provided and
>>> is, in some cases, entirely open to being exploited. Observer integrity
>>> plays a key role. As I am no longer on the IRBC, I do not pay as close
>>> attention to ‘the list’ as I should, or used to. However, I was
>>> surprised at your assertion that Michael (O’Keeffe) is deliberately
>>> omitting records from Owen. If memory serves me right, Owen asked, or
>>> rather demanded, that his records not be included. Perhaps he withdrew
>>> this request, I don’t remember. As you correctly point out, the
>>> membership of the IRBC has almost completely changed since and it may
>>> be that our successors will decide on a different course of action in
>>> the future; that is their prerogative. Their primary
>>> objective, however, has not changed i.e., to maintain as complete and
>>> accurate a list of the rare birds occurring each year as possible.
>>> Your unerring support for Owen is admirable. Owen clearly finds rare
>>> birds, as do most people who spend time in the field. The problem seems
>>> to be the application of self-criticism. The subtitle of his blog
>>> ‘birding without standards’, while presumably tongue-in-cheek, sums it
>>> up pretty well. Best wishes Pat
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Robert Vaughan
>>> Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:19 am
>>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>>>
>>>> John,
>>>> It seems slightly contradictory that you would ask for a finders
>>>> descriptionfor these birds so that you can assess them, while at
>>>> the same time, point
>>>> out that it is the role of the irbc and not yourself to do so.
>>>> I would also think it odd that you twice refer to single
>>>> observer records in
>>>> your posting when this is not the case in either of these
>>>> instances, both
>>>> the madeiran and short tailed were seen by multiple observers.
>>>> I would also suggest you buy the sound approach, petrels night
>>>> and day, as
>>>> you have made it quite clear in both the madeiran thread and the
>>>> scopolisthread that you are not up to date with the latest
>>>> information regarding
>>>> such seabirds and therefore should be the last to comment.
>>>>
>>>> 'I do not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
>>>> whoeverthey might be.' Strange that you would say that, and in
>>>> the original mail
>>>> state that you, like many people considered the madeiran and
>>>> leaches petrel
>>>> seen off Cape to be the same bird. So if not part of a group,
>>>> who were you
>>>> referring to with 'most people?'
>>>>
>>>> Having been at the "open forum" yourself back in 2006, I somehow
>>>> doubt you
>>>> kept your big mouth shut, when Owen and his sightings came up in
>>>> "discussion". You have now seen what effect your dismissive
>>>> emails have had
>>>> on Ronan and his contribution to the IBN and he is not alone in
>>>> who thought
>>>> your mails were abusive. Even Mr O'Keefe thought your e-mail was
>>>> dismissiveregarding the madeiran and not 'scientific scrutiny'.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps now would be a good time to reiterate my questions to
>>>> the IRBC.
>>>> Seeing as they seem to have missed them, or are ignoring them.
>>>>
>>>> "Has the policy towards Owen's finds changed and the IRBC did
>>>> not tell
>>>> anyone?
>>>> I notice that since Mike began compiling the IRBC provisional
>>>> list, most of
>>>> Owen's rarities have not been placed on the list. Yet I know for
>>>> a fact that
>>>> Mike receives this information from birders in Cork and the Cork
>>>> birdingtwitter service. Is Mike/IRBC now trashing Owen's records
>>>> before the report
>>>> publishing stage? (not very provisional) or are they complying
>>>> with Owen's
>>>> request that his rarities be kept off the IRBC's books?
>>>> (something that I am
>>>> sure Owen would be just fine with). Or does this new version of
>>>> the IRBC
>>>> continue to uphold the policy put in place by their predecessors
>>>> and if so?
>>>> Why?
>>>> Why does each member of the IRBC feel that this policy, which
>>>> most people
>>>> disagree with, should be upheld?''
>>>>
>>>> Kieran, Dermot, Dave Mcadams, Dave Suddaby, Mike, Dick, Joe,?
>>>>
>>>> Will you keep hiding or give a stance on where these issues stand?
>>>>
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 8:29 PM, John Coveney Birds
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > Phil and perhaps others (I haven't had time to go back over
>>>> exactly who
>>>> > said
>>>> > what),
>>>> >
>>>> > I am currently skeptical, in the scientific sense, of both the
>>>> Madeiran> Petrel and the Short-tailed Shearwater claims, not
>>>> because of who saw them,
>>>> > but because the observers have, to my knowledge, put little or no
>>>> > information in the public domain. That is, of course, their
>>>> right but in my
>>>> > opinion, however, it is then unreasonable if they or others
>>>> are upset at
>>>> > skeptical reactions - and it would appear to me that people
>>>> are skeptical
>>>> > about both records. In contrast, the reaction to this
>>>> skepticism seems to
>>>> > take it all as an attack on one of the observers of the
>>>> Madeiran Petrel.
>>>> > Personally, I would not claim such difficult to identify
>>>> species with
>>>> > little
>>>> > or no corroborating evidence.
>>>> >
>>>> > I would contrast this approach with that of Paul Walsh in
>>>> relation to his
>>>> > recent posting about the possible Yelkouan Shearwater off
>>>> Brownstown. At
>>>> > least in that case, we can form opinions based on the
>>>> available evidence -
>>>> > it is not the role of the IBN to make decisions or judgments -
>>>> that is the
>>>> > job of the IRBC - for those that accept its role. It would be
>>>> good to see
>>>> > more discussion of Paul's bird from those with more expertise
>>>> than me,
>>>> > based on the details observed. Also, perhaps Lee would give us
>>>> a summary of
>>>> > the UK claims and the evidence supporting them.
>>>> >
>>>> > In my view, mega-rarity claims from seawatches and single
>>>> observer sight
>>>> > only situations will always be difficult to assess ever before the
>>>> > "observer
>>>> > factor" is considered - and just before anyone starts pounding their
>>>> > keyboard, I'm not going there! There are many factors that can
>>>> be discussed
>>>> > objectively without flinging around dispersions or even
>>>> nasturtiums such
>>>> > as:- patterns of occurrence, or lack of; similarity to other
>>>> species; the
>>>> > current knowledge of the ID criteria; distance, light and
>>>> other conditions
>>>> > during the observation; and the amount of information obtained
>>>> during the
>>>> > observation - bearing in mind the previous point. If people
>>>> take this
>>>> > personally, all I can say is that, at least in relation to my
>>>> > contributions,
>>>> > it ain't so!
>>>> >
>>>> > To make a more general point, I think it is good to see more
>>>> discussion of
>>>> > sightings on IBN - it was a bit moribund in the spring. I for
>>>> one don't
>>>> > intend to let the circumstances of one particular dispute that
>>>> I was not
>>>> > involved in stop me making contributions (I would consider my
>>>> previous> unofficial "moderating" input as peripheral to the
>>>> dispute itself).
>>>> > Furthermore, in posting my views, my intention is to open up
>>>> skeptical and
>>>> > even robust discussion on current observations - not on the
>>>> observers nor
>>>> > on
>>>> > previous disputes.
>>>> >
>>>> > I would conclude by stressing that my opinions on the IBN are
>>>> my own - I do
>>>> > not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
>>>> whoever they
>>>> > might be - to misquote Groucho Marx, I don't care to belong to
>>>> any club
>>>> > that
>>>> > people might put me in!
>>>> >
>>>> > John C
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>> > Phil
>>>> > Davis
>>>> > Sent: 20 August 2010 07:45
>>>> > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>>>> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
>>>> yesterday>
>>>> > Hi Mark, I wasn't implying that you were dissing the record,
>>>> the exact
>>>> > opposite in fact. The point I was making was that none of the usual
>>>> > suspects
>>>> >
>>>> > have been on rubbishing this bird, yet when Madeiran Petrel
>>>> was claimed by
>>>> > two excellent birders they were all over the record like a
>>>> rash! I just
>>>> > think its strange.
>>>> > Phil
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "Mark Carmody"
>>>> > To:
>>>> > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:09 PM
>>>> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
>>>> yesterday>
>>>> >
>>>> > > Phil, I'm not dissing the record...I hope it is one! It's
>>>> made up mind to
>>>> > > head to Galley this weekend. Haven't been seawatching this
>>>> year yet and
>>>> > am
>>>> > > chomping at the bit now. I haven't seen a Cory's in a long
>>>> time so that
>>>> > > for
>>>> > > me would be brilliant. Anything else would be a bonus ;)
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Mark
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Phil Davis
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > >> I'm so glad Owen didn't claim this (possible)bird, cos then
>>>> we would
>>>> > have
>>>> > >> loads of mails dismissing it, instead of ,
>>>> (rightly so in my opinion),
>>>> > >> birders looking forward to the Autumn, cos they might see a
>>>> Short Tailed
>>>> > >> Shearwater, or Sooty or
>>>> Balearic, or Madeiran Petrel or Dodo.
>>>> > >> Jesus!!!!!! the hypocrisy..... is that spelt right? John
>>>> Coveney, where
>>>> > >> are
>>>> > >> you when we need you?
>>>> > >> Phil(must lay off the red wine)Davis.
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Keeffe" <
>>>> > >> okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> To:
>>>> > >> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:39 PM
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
>>>> Bridges yesterday
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> Rick,
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> My friend if Short-tailed falls in between Sooty and
>>>> Balearic in
>>>> > >>> appearance (closer to Sooty) it could be confusable with either
>>>> > species.
>>>> > >>> That's not the same as saying Sooty and Balearic are as similar.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Mark,
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> The Pacific birds you mention are all breeding in Northern
>>>> Canada> >>> whereas
>>>> > >>> Short-tailed breeds in Australia, thousands of miles
>>>> further again as
>>>> > >>> you
>>>> > >>> know. Black-bellied/White-bellied Storm-petrels
>>>> breed in the South
>>>> > >>> Atlantic. No Short-tailed would a be truely
>>>> exceptional record! Then
>>>> > >>> again, Streaked Shearwater from the same area made it to
>>>> Isreal in
>>>> > >>> 1992/1993.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> From reading up on Short-tailed occurrances off the
>>>> West Coast of
>>>> > North
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>> America they seem to be mainly 1st years. So one
>>>> possible scenario
>>>> > >>> would
>>>> > >>> be that a bird which was born in Australia towards the end
>>>> of last year
>>>> > >>> has
>>>> > >>> spent the last eight or nine months making its way accross
>>>> the South
>>>> > >>> Pacific
>>>> > >>> into the Atlantic, perhaps meeting up with Sooty and Great
>>>> Shears a few
>>>> > >>> months ago and heading North with them to began its
>>>> circuit north.
>>>> > >>> Except
>>>> > >>> this time it was up the east coast of the Americas
>>>> (instead of East
>>>> > >>> Asia)
>>>> > >>> and finally around to the Irish coast. If one did it
>>>> certainly would
>>>> > be
>>>> >
>>>> > >>> a
>>>> > >>> mighty job and it would raise the possibility of other
>>>> species like
>>>> > >>> Pink-footed or Buller's Shearwater doing likewise.
>>>> On our Chilean trip
>>>> > >>> last
>>>> > >>> year we had both these species at 46 degrees south
>>>> which is only a day
>>>> > >>> or
>>>> > >>> two's flight to Cape Horn for one of these guys (the
>>>> Buller's was
>>>> > >>> exceptional that far south but normal for Pink-footed).
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> I cant wait to hear more about the sighting. It has
>>>> certainly livened
>>>> > >>> up
>>>> > >>> the Autumn!
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Regards
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Mike
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>> From: "richard mundy"
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>> To:
>>>> > >>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:00 PM
>>>> > >>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
>>>> Bridges yesterday
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> How can it be difficult to separate from Sooty and
>>>> difficult to
>>>> > >>> separate
>>>> > >>>> from Balearic? That is tantamount to saying that Sooty is
>>>> difficult to
>>>> > >>>> separate from Balearic.
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Rick
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Lee G R Evans
>>>> > >>>> wrote:
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Mike and others
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>> This report came in from Tom Lowe, Dan Brown, Michael
>>>> Hoit and one
>>>> > >>>>> other
>>>> > >>>>> whose name escapes me; described as a possible and not
>>>> claimed as
>>>> > >>>>> outright.
>>>> > >>>>> There have been several claims of this species from
>>>> Flamborough Head
>>>> > >>>>> in
>>>> > >>>>> East
>>>> > >>>>> Yorkshire (same observer each time) but as others
>>>> have already
>>>> > >>>>> commented,
>>>> > >>>>> very difficult to separate from both Sooty and Balearic
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>> Best wishes
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>> Lee
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
>>>> > > www.markcarmodyphotography.com
>>>> > > My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-
>>>> Wilson/dp/1848890176> > )
>>>> > > General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Martin Styles
> Ballincollig
> Cork
>
Subject: Re: Boring
From: Phil Davis <phildavis AT IOL.IE>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:07:14 +0100
So don't read it Martin.
Phil.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Styles"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: Boring
> Yes, informative the first time, but do we need reminding of it every
> couple of months? I'm sick of reading it.
>
> M
>
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:04:43 +0100, Séamus Feeney
> wrote:
>
>> Boring for some, informative for others. I've seen people show their
>> true colours here on IBN. Thanks to regular un-moderated outbursts from
>> some I have some idea of what is out there, and I'm not talking about
>> birds. As I said informative.
>>
>> Séamus.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Edward Carty"
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 6:00 AM
>> To:
>> Subject: Boring
>>
>>> Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn,
>>> Lads can all this IRBC V
>>> Owen V Rob V Whoever be done directly with the Committee instead of on
>>> the IBN..........its gone full circle several times at this
>>> stage.........Ed
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 23/8/10, Phil Davis wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Phil Davis
>>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>>> Date: Monday, 23 August, 2010, 14:38
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Pat, might I suggest that maybe the reason for the lack of response
>>> to Robs mail does not show a lack of support but maybe frustration and
>>> a feeling of inability to change the status quo.
>>> Now you are "off " the committee and feel free to talk on this subject,
>>> can I ask "do you still think you were right to be involved in the
>>> penning of that letter, and why? " Given the last sentence in your
>>> mail, it would appear that your opinion is still the same.Despite the
>>> fact that you admit Owen finds rare birds, you maintain he has no
>>> standards, as a birder who has also found many rare birds and was also
>>> accused of having no standards, I would dearly like to know what these
>>> standards are!
>>> John....I apologise if my last mail inferred that you were one of the
>>> "usual suspects", this was not my intention.I have always had the
>>> highest regard for you as a person and a birder but I have to say I was
>>> surprised by your mail on the Madeiran, I thought it was very negative
>>> and reminded me of the many times I have heard other birders slagging
>>> peoples finds, with little or no justification.
>>> Eamonn....glad you could find the time to read and reply to Robs post.
>>> IRBC Members past and present....get off the fence, take a deep breath
>>> and be honest with yourselves, do you/did you agree with the letter
>>> sent to Owen....
>>> Phil.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Lonergan"
>>>
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:21 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>>
>>>
>>> RobWe don’t
>>> know each other; I think we may have met in a crowd once or twice. As
>>> a past member of the IRBC, I am one of those who penned the infamous
>>> letter to Owen Foley. It has been IRBC policy not to discuss such
>>> matters on a public forum like IBN, but as I am now ‘off’ the committee
>>> I guess I can say
>>> something. The complete lack of response from anyone to your email of
>>> August 12th, culminating in your attempt to raise the issue again
>>> today, should suggest to you that perhaps your views do not have the
>>> support of 98% of people as you indicated. Could it be that perhaps you
>>> are in the minority? I think it demonstrates clearly that most people
>>> do not care, and do not want to engage with you on the subject,
>>> possibly because many of your posts have become as inaccurate,
>>> aggressive and vitriolic as Owen’s. Despite what you may think, no one
>>> took any pleasure in writing the letter to Owen. We had just introduced
>>> the new method of recording, reflected in the monthly excel sheet that
>>> appears on the IRBC website. Even the most cynical (or
>>> sceptical….John??) will admit that this has been a major step forward
>>> in recording, with relatively few of the rare birds being seen annually
>>> slipping through the net, compared to the case prior to its
>>> establishment.
>>> Everything possible was and is done to ensure that the list is as
>>> accurate and complete as possible. As you are aware, with many species
>>> removed from the list requiring formal descriptions, the accuracy of
>>> the list is dependent on the accuracy of the information provided and
>>> is, in some cases, entirely open to being exploited. Observer integrity
>>> plays a key role. As I am no longer on the IRBC, I do not pay as close
>>> attention to ‘the list’ as I should, or used to. However, I was
>>> surprised at your assertion that Michael (O’Keeffe) is deliberately
>>> omitting records from Owen. If memory serves me right, Owen asked, or
>>> rather demanded, that his records not be included. Perhaps he withdrew
>>> this request, I don’t remember. As you correctly point out, the
>>> membership of the IRBC has almost completely changed since and it may
>>> be that our successors will decide on a different course of action in
>>> the future; that is their prerogative. Their primary
>>> objective, however, has not changed i.e., to maintain as complete and
>>> accurate a list of the rare birds occurring each year as possible.
>>> Your unerring support for Owen is admirable. Owen clearly finds rare
>>> birds, as do most people who spend time in the field. The problem seems
>>> to be the application of self-criticism. The subtitle of his blog
>>> ‘birding without standards’, while presumably tongue-in-cheek, sums it
>>> up pretty well. Best wishes Pat
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Robert Vaughan
>>> Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:19 am
>>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>>>
>>>> John,
>>>> It seems slightly contradictory that you would ask for a finders
>>>> descriptionfor these birds so that you can assess them, while at
>>>> the same time, point
>>>> out that it is the role of the irbc and not yourself to do so.
>>>> I would also think it odd that you twice refer to single
>>>> observer records in
>>>> your posting when this is not the case in either of these
>>>> instances, both
>>>> the madeiran and short tailed were seen by multiple observers.
>>>> I would also suggest you buy the sound approach, petrels night
>>>> and day, as
>>>> you have made it quite clear in both the madeiran thread and the
>>>> scopolisthread that you are not up to date with the latest
>>>> information regarding
>>>> such seabirds and therefore should be the last to comment.
>>>>
>>>> 'I do not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
>>>> whoeverthey might be.' Strange that you would say that, and in
>>>> the original mail
>>>> state that you, like many people considered the madeiran and
>>>> leaches petrel
>>>> seen off Cape to be the same bird. So if not part of a group,
>>>> who were you
>>>> referring to with 'most people?'
>>>>
>>>> Having been at the "open forum" yourself back in 2006, I somehow
>>>> doubt you
>>>> kept your big mouth shut, when Owen and his sightings came up in
>>>> "discussion". You have now seen what effect your dismissive
>>>> emails have had
>>>> on Ronan and his contribution to the IBN and he is not alone in
>>>> who thought
>>>> your mails were abusive. Even Mr O'Keefe thought your e-mail was
>>>> dismissiveregarding the madeiran and not 'scientific scrutiny'.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps now would be a good time to reiterate my questions to
>>>> the IRBC.
>>>> Seeing as they seem to have missed them, or are ignoring them.
>>>>
>>>> "Has the policy towards Owen's finds changed and the IRBC did
>>>> not tell
>>>> anyone?
>>>> I notice that since Mike began compiling the IRBC provisional
>>>> list, most of
>>>> Owen's rarities have not been placed on the list. Yet I know for
>>>> a fact that
>>>> Mike receives this information from birders in Cork and the Cork
>>>> birdingtwitter service. Is Mike/IRBC now trashing Owen's records
>>>> before the report
>>>> publishing stage? (not very provisional) or are they complying
>>>> with Owen's
>>>> request that his rarities be kept off the IRBC's books?
>>>> (something that I am
>>>> sure Owen would be just fine with). Or does this new version of
>>>> the IRBC
>>>> continue to uphold the policy put in place by their predecessors
>>>> and if so?
>>>> Why?
>>>> Why does each member of the IRBC feel that this policy, which
>>>> most people
>>>> disagree with, should be upheld?''
>>>>
>>>> Kieran, Dermot, Dave Mcadams, Dave Suddaby, Mike, Dick, Joe,?
>>>>
>>>> Will you keep hiding or give a stance on where these issues stand?
>>>>
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 8:29 PM, John Coveney Birds
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > Phil and perhaps others (I haven't had time to go back over
>>>> exactly who
>>>> > said
>>>> > what),
>>>> >
>>>> > I am currently skeptical, in the scientific sense, of both the
>>>> Madeiran> Petrel and the Short-tailed Shearwater claims, not
>>>> because of who saw them,
>>>> > but because the observers have, to my knowledge, put little or no
>>>> > information in the public domain. That is, of course, their
>>>> right but in my
>>>> > opinion, however, it is then unreasonable if they or others
>>>> are upset at
>>>> > skeptical reactions - and it would appear to me that people
>>>> are skeptical
>>>> > about both records. In contrast, the reaction to this
>>>> skepticism seems to
>>>> > take it all as an attack on one of the observers of the
>>>> Madeiran Petrel.
>>>> > Personally, I would not claim such difficult to identify
>>>> species with
>>>> > little
>>>> > or no corroborating evidence.
>>>> >
>>>> > I would contrast this approach with that of Paul Walsh in
>>>> relation to his
>>>> > recent posting about the possible Yelkouan Shearwater off
>>>> Brownstown. At
>>>> > least in that case, we can form opinions based on the
>>>> available evidence -
>>>> > it is not the role of the IBN to make decisions or judgments -
>>>> that is the
>>>> > job of the IRBC - for those that accept its role. It would be
>>>> good to see
>>>> > more discussion of Paul's bird from those with more expertise
>>>> than me,
>>>> > based on the details observed. Also, perhaps Lee would give us
>>>> a summary of
>>>> > the UK claims and the evidence supporting them.
>>>> >
>>>> > In my view, mega-rarity claims from seawatches and single
>>>> observer sight
>>>> > only situations will always be difficult to assess ever before the
>>>> > "observer
>>>> > factor" is considered - and just before anyone starts pounding their
>>>> > keyboard, I'm not going there! There are many factors that can
>>>> be discussed
>>>> > objectively without flinging around dispersions or even
>>>> nasturtiums such
>>>> > as:- patterns of occurrence, or lack of; similarity to other
>>>> species; the
>>>> > current knowledge of the ID criteria; distance, light and
>>>> other conditions
>>>> > during the observation; and the amount of information obtained
>>>> during the
>>>> > observation - bearing in mind the previous point. If people
>>>> take this
>>>> > personally, all I can say is that, at least in relation to my
>>>> > contributions,
>>>> > it ain't so!
>>>> >
>>>> > To make a more general point, I think it is good to see more
>>>> discussion of
>>>> > sightings on IBN - it was a bit moribund in the spring. I for
>>>> one don't
>>>> > intend to let the circumstances of one particular dispute that
>>>> I was not
>>>> > involved in stop me making contributions (I would consider my
>>>> previous> unofficial "moderating" input as peripheral to the
>>>> dispute itself).
>>>> > Furthermore, in posting my views, my intention is to open up
>>>> skeptical and
>>>> > even robust discussion on current observations - not on the
>>>> observers nor
>>>> > on
>>>> > previous disputes.
>>>> >
>>>> > I would conclude by stressing that my opinions on the IBN are
>>>> my own - I do
>>>> > not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
>>>> whoever they
>>>> > might be - to misquote Groucho Marx, I don't care to belong to
>>>> any club
>>>> > that
>>>> > people might put me in!
>>>> >
>>>> > John C
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>> > Phil
>>>> > Davis
>>>> > Sent: 20 August 2010 07:45
>>>> > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>>>> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
>>>> yesterday>
>>>> > Hi Mark, I wasn't implying that you were dissing the record,
>>>> the exact
>>>> > opposite in fact. The point I was making was that none of the usual
>>>> > suspects
>>>> >
>>>> > have been on rubbishing this bird, yet when Madeiran Petrel
>>>> was claimed by
>>>> > two excellent birders they were all over the record like a
>>>> rash! I just
>>>> > think its strange.
>>>> > Phil
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "Mark Carmody"
>>>> > To:
>>>> > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:09 PM
>>>> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
>>>> yesterday>
>>>> >
>>>> > > Phil, I'm not dissing the record...I hope it is one! It's
>>>> made up mind to
>>>> > > head to Galley this weekend. Haven't been seawatching this
>>>> year yet and
>>>> > am
>>>> > > chomping at the bit now. I haven't seen a Cory's in a long
>>>> time so that
>>>> > > for
>>>> > > me would be brilliant. Anything else would be a bonus ;)
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Mark
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Phil Davis
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > >> I'm so glad Owen didn't claim this (possible)bird, cos then
>>>> we would
>>>> > have
>>>> > >> loads of mails dismissing it, instead of ,
>>>> (rightly so in my opinion),
>>>> > >> birders looking forward to the Autumn, cos they might see a
>>>> Short Tailed
>>>> > >> Shearwater, or Sooty or
>>>> Balearic, or Madeiran Petrel or Dodo.
>>>> > >> Jesus!!!!!! the hypocrisy..... is that spelt right? John
>>>> Coveney, where
>>>> > >> are
>>>> > >> you when we need you?
>>>> > >> Phil(must lay off the red wine)Davis.
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Keeffe" <
>>>> > >> okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> To:
>>>> > >> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:39 PM
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
>>>> Bridges yesterday
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> Rick,
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> My friend if Short-tailed falls in between Sooty and
>>>> Balearic in
>>>> > >>> appearance (closer to Sooty) it could be confusable with either
>>>> > species.
>>>> > >>> That's not the same as saying Sooty and Balearic are as similar.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Mark,
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> The Pacific birds you mention are all breeding in Northern
>>>> Canada> >>> whereas
>>>> > >>> Short-tailed breeds in Australia, thousands of miles
>>>> further again as
>>>> > >>> you
>>>> > >>> know. Black-bellied/White-bellied Storm-petrels
>>>> breed in the South
>>>> > >>> Atlantic. No Short-tailed would a be truely
>>>> exceptional record! Then
>>>> > >>> again, Streaked Shearwater from the same area made it to
>>>> Isreal in
>>>> > >>> 1992/1993.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> From reading up on Short-tailed occurrances off the
>>>> West Coast of
>>>> > North
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>> America they seem to be mainly 1st years. So one
>>>> possible scenario
>>>> > >>> would
>>>> > >>> be that a bird which was born in Australia towards the end
>>>> of last year
>>>> > >>> has
>>>> > >>> spent the last eight or nine months making its way accross
>>>> the South
>>>> > >>> Pacific
>>>> > >>> into the Atlantic, perhaps meeting up with Sooty and Great
>>>> Shears a few
>>>> > >>> months ago and heading North with them to began its
>>>> circuit north.
>>>> > >>> Except
>>>> > >>> this time it was up the east coast of the Americas
>>>> (instead of East
>>>> > >>> Asia)
>>>> > >>> and finally around to the Irish coast. If one did it
>>>> certainly would
>>>> > be
>>>> >
>>>> > >>> a
>>>> > >>> mighty job and it would raise the possibility of other
>>>> species like
>>>> > >>> Pink-footed or Buller's Shearwater doing likewise.
>>>> On our Chilean trip
>>>> > >>> last
>>>> > >>> year we had both these species at 46 degrees south
>>>> which is only a day
>>>> > >>> or
>>>> > >>> two's flight to Cape Horn for one of these guys (the
>>>> Buller's was
>>>> > >>> exceptional that far south but normal for Pink-footed).
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> I cant wait to hear more about the sighting. It has
>>>> certainly livened
>>>> > >>> up
>>>> > >>> the Autumn!
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Regards
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Mike
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>> From: "richard mundy"
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>> To:
>>>> > >>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:00 PM
>>>> > >>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
>>>> Bridges yesterday
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> How can it be difficult to separate from Sooty and
>>>> difficult to
>>>> > >>> separate
>>>> > >>>> from Balearic? That is tantamount to saying that Sooty is
>>>> difficult to
>>>> > >>>> separate from Balearic.
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Rick
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Lee G R Evans
>>>> > >>>> wrote:
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>> Mike and others
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>> This report came in from Tom Lowe, Dan Brown, Michael
>>>> Hoit and one
>>>> > >>>>> other
>>>> > >>>>> whose name escapes me; described as a possible and not
>>>> claimed as
>>>> > >>>>> outright.
>>>> > >>>>> There have been several claims of this species from
>>>> Flamborough Head
>>>> > >>>>> in
>>>> > >>>>> East
>>>> > >>>>> Yorkshire (same observer each time) but as others
>>>> have already
>>>> > >>>>> commented,
>>>> > >>>>> very difficult to separate from both Sooty and Balearic
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>> Best wishes
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>> Lee
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>>
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>>
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
>>>> > > www.markcarmodyphotography.com
>>>> > > My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-
>>>> Wilson/dp/1848890176> > )
>>>> > > General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Martin Styles
> Ballincollig
> Cork
>
Subject: Re: Boring
From: Martin Styles <mdstyles AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:04:36 +0100
Yes, informative the first time, but do we need reminding of it every
couple of months? I'm sick of reading it.
M
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:04:43 +0100, Séamus Feeney
wrote:
> Boring for some, informative for others. I've seen people show their
> true colours here on IBN. Thanks to regular un-moderated outbursts from
> some I have some idea of what is out there, and I'm not talking about
> birds. As I said informative.
>
> Séamus.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Edward Carty"
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 6:00 AM
> To:
> Subject: Boring
>
>> Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn,
>> Lads can all this IRBC V
>> Owen V Rob V Whoever be done directly with the Committee instead of on
>> the IBN..........its gone full circle several times at this
>> stage.........Ed
>>
>> --- On Mon, 23/8/10, Phil Davis wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Phil Davis
>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>> Date: Monday, 23 August, 2010, 14:38
>>
>>
>> Hi Pat, might I suggest that maybe the reason for the lack of response
>> to Robs mail does not show a lack of support but maybe frustration and
>> a feeling of inability to change the status quo.
>> Now you are "off " the committee and feel free to talk on this subject,
>> can I ask "do you still think you were right to be involved in the
>> penning of that letter, and why? " Given the last sentence in your
>> mail, it would appear that your opinion is still the same.Despite the
>> fact that you admit Owen finds rare birds, you maintain he has no
>> standards, as a birder who has also found many rare birds and was also
>> accused of having no standards, I would dearly like to know what these
>> standards are!
>> John....I apologise if my last mail inferred that you were one of the
>> "usual suspects", this was not my intention.I have always had the
>> highest regard for you as a person and a birder but I have to say I was
>> surprised by your mail on the Madeiran, I thought it was very negative
>> and reminded me of the many times I have heard other birders slagging
>> peoples finds, with little or no justification.
>> Eamonn....glad you could find the time to read and reply to Robs post.
>> IRBC Members past and present....get off the fence, take a deep breath
>> and be honest with yourselves, do you/did you agree with the letter
>> sent to Owen....
>> Phil.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Lonergan"
>>
>> To:
>> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>
>>
>> RobWe don’t
>> know each other; I think we may have met in a crowd once or twice. As
>> a past member of the IRBC, I am one of those who penned the infamous
>> letter to Owen Foley. It has been IRBC policy not to discuss such
>> matters on a public forum like IBN, but as I am now ‘off’ the committee
>> I guess I can say
>> something. The complete lack of response from anyone to your email of
>> August 12th, culminating in your attempt to raise the issue again
>> today, should suggest to you that perhaps your views do not have the
>> support of 98% of people as you indicated. Could it be that perhaps you
>> are in the minority? I think it demonstrates clearly that most people
>> do not care, and do not want to engage with you on the subject,
>> possibly because many of your posts have become as inaccurate,
>> aggressive and vitriolic as Owen’s. Despite what you may think, no one
>> took any pleasure in writing the letter to Owen. We had just introduced
>> the new method of recording, reflected in the monthly excel sheet that
>> appears on the IRBC website. Even the most cynical (or
>> sceptical….John??) will admit that this has been a major step forward
>> in recording, with relatively few of the rare birds being seen annually
>> slipping through the net, compared to the case prior to its
>> establishment.
>> Everything possible was and is done to ensure that the list is as
>> accurate and complete as possible. As you are aware, with many species
>> removed from the list requiring formal descriptions, the accuracy of
>> the list is dependent on the accuracy of the information provided and
>> is, in some cases, entirely open to being exploited. Observer integrity
>> plays a key role. As I am no longer on the IRBC, I do not pay as close
>> attention to ‘the list’ as I should, or used to. However, I was
>> surprised at your assertion that Michael (O’Keeffe) is deliberately
>> omitting records from Owen. If memory serves me right, Owen asked, or
>> rather demanded, that his records not be included. Perhaps he withdrew
>> this request, I don’t remember. As you correctly point out, the
>> membership of the IRBC has almost completely changed since and it may
>> be that our successors will decide on a different course of action in
>> the future; that is their prerogative. Their primary
>> objective, however, has not changed i.e., to maintain as complete and
>> accurate a list of the rare birds occurring each year as possible.
>> Your unerring support for Owen is admirable. Owen clearly finds rare
>> birds, as do most people who spend time in the field. The problem seems
>> to be the application of self-criticism. The subtitle of his blog
>> ‘birding without standards’, while presumably tongue-in-cheek, sums it
>> up pretty well. Best wishes Pat
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Robert Vaughan
>> Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:19 am
>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>>
>>> John,
>>> It seems slightly contradictory that you would ask for a finders
>>> descriptionfor these birds so that you can assess them, while at
>>> the same time, point
>>> out that it is the role of the irbc and not yourself to do so.
>>> I would also think it odd that you twice refer to single
>>> observer records in
>>> your posting when this is not the case in either of these
>>> instances, both
>>> the madeiran and short tailed were seen by multiple observers.
>>> I would also suggest you buy the sound approach, petrels night
>>> and day, as
>>> you have made it quite clear in both the madeiran thread and the
>>> scopolisthread that you are not up to date with the latest
>>> information regarding
>>> such seabirds and therefore should be the last to comment.
>>>
>>> 'I do not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
>>> whoeverthey might be.' Strange that you would say that, and in
>>> the original mail
>>> state that you, like many people considered the madeiran and
>>> leaches petrel
>>> seen off Cape to be the same bird. So if not part of a group,
>>> who were you
>>> referring to with 'most people?'
>>>
>>> Having been at the "open forum" yourself back in 2006, I somehow
>>> doubt you
>>> kept your big mouth shut, when Owen and his sightings came up in
>>> "discussion". You have now seen what effect your dismissive
>>> emails have had
>>> on Ronan and his contribution to the IBN and he is not alone in
>>> who thought
>>> your mails were abusive. Even Mr O'Keefe thought your e-mail was
>>> dismissiveregarding the madeiran and not 'scientific scrutiny'.
>>>
>>> Perhaps now would be a good time to reiterate my questions to
>>> the IRBC.
>>> Seeing as they seem to have missed them, or are ignoring them.
>>>
>>> "Has the policy towards Owen's finds changed and the IRBC did
>>> not tell
>>> anyone?
>>> I notice that since Mike began compiling the IRBC provisional
>>> list, most of
>>> Owen's rarities have not been placed on the list. Yet I know for
>>> a fact that
>>> Mike receives this information from birders in Cork and the Cork
>>> birdingtwitter service. Is Mike/IRBC now trashing Owen's records
>>> before the report
>>> publishing stage? (not very provisional) or are they complying
>>> with Owen's
>>> request that his rarities be kept off the IRBC's books?
>>> (something that I am
>>> sure Owen would be just fine with). Or does this new version of
>>> the IRBC
>>> continue to uphold the policy put in place by their predecessors
>>> and if so?
>>> Why?
>>> Why does each member of the IRBC feel that this policy, which
>>> most people
>>> disagree with, should be upheld?''
>>>
>>> Kieran, Dermot, Dave Mcadams, Dave Suddaby, Mike, Dick, Joe,?
>>>
>>> Will you keep hiding or give a stance on where these issues stand?
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 8:29 PM, John Coveney Birds
>>> wrote:
>>> > Phil and perhaps others (I haven't had time to go back over
>>> exactly who
>>> > said
>>> > what),
>>> >
>>> > I am currently skeptical, in the scientific sense, of both the
>>> Madeiran> Petrel and the Short-tailed Shearwater claims, not
>>> because of who saw them,
>>> > but because the observers have, to my knowledge, put little or no
>>> > information in the public domain. That is, of course, their
>>> right but in my
>>> > opinion, however, it is then unreasonable if they or others
>>> are upset at
>>> > skeptical reactions - and it would appear to me that people
>>> are skeptical
>>> > about both records. In contrast, the reaction to this
>>> skepticism seems to
>>> > take it all as an attack on one of the observers of the
>>> Madeiran Petrel.
>>> > Personally, I would not claim such difficult to identify
>>> species with
>>> > little
>>> > or no corroborating evidence.
>>> >
>>> > I would contrast this approach with that of Paul Walsh in
>>> relation to his
>>> > recent posting about the possible Yelkouan Shearwater off
>>> Brownstown. At
>>> > least in that case, we can form opinions based on the
>>> available evidence -
>>> > it is not the role of the IBN to make decisions or judgments -
>>> that is the
>>> > job of the IRBC - for those that accept its role. It would be
>>> good to see
>>> > more discussion of Paul's bird from those with more expertise
>>> than me,
>>> > based on the details observed. Also, perhaps Lee would give us
>>> a summary of
>>> > the UK claims and the evidence supporting them.
>>> >
>>> > In my view, mega-rarity claims from seawatches and single
>>> observer sight
>>> > only situations will always be difficult to assess ever before the
>>> > "observer
>>> > factor" is considered - and just before anyone starts pounding their
>>> > keyboard, I'm not going there! There are many factors that can
>>> be discussed
>>> > objectively without flinging around dispersions or even
>>> nasturtiums such
>>> > as:- patterns of occurrence, or lack of; similarity to other
>>> species; the
>>> > current knowledge of the ID criteria; distance, light and
>>> other conditions
>>> > during the observation; and the amount of information obtained
>>> during the
>>> > observation - bearing in mind the previous point. If people
>>> take this
>>> > personally, all I can say is that, at least in relation to my
>>> > contributions,
>>> > it ain't so!
>>> >
>>> > To make a more general point, I think it is good to see more
>>> discussion of
>>> > sightings on IBN - it was a bit moribund in the spring. I for
>>> one don't
>>> > intend to let the circumstances of one particular dispute that
>>> I was not
>>> > involved in stop me making contributions (I would consider my
>>> previous> unofficial "moderating" input as peripheral to the
>>> dispute itself).
>>> > Furthermore, in posting my views, my intention is to open up
>>> skeptical and
>>> > even robust discussion on current observations - not on the
>>> observers nor
>>> > on
>>> > previous disputes.
>>> >
>>> > I would conclude by stressing that my opinions on the IBN are
>>> my own - I do
>>> > not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
>>> whoever they
>>> > might be - to misquote Groucho Marx, I don't care to belong to
>>> any club
>>> > that
>>> > people might put me in!
>>> >
>>> > John C
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On
>>> Behalf Of
>>> > Phil
>>> > Davis
>>> > Sent: 20 August 2010 07:45
>>> > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>>> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
>>> yesterday>
>>> > Hi Mark, I wasn't implying that you were dissing the record,
>>> the exact
>>> > opposite in fact. The point I was making was that none of the usual
>>> > suspects
>>> >
>>> > have been on rubbishing this bird, yet when Madeiran Petrel
>>> was claimed by
>>> > two excellent birders they were all over the record like a
>>> rash! I just
>>> > think its strange.
>>> > Phil
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Mark Carmody"
>>> > To:
>>> > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:09 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
>>> yesterday>
>>> >
>>> > > Phil, I'm not dissing the record...I hope it is one! It's
>>> made up mind to
>>> > > head to Galley this weekend. Haven't been seawatching this
>>> year yet and
>>> > am
>>> > > chomping at the bit now. I haven't seen a Cory's in a long
>>> time so that
>>> > > for
>>> > > me would be brilliant. Anything else would be a bonus ;)
>>> > >
>>> > > Mark
>>> > >
>>> > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Phil Davis
>>> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >> I'm so glad Owen didn't claim this (possible)bird, cos then
>>> we would
>>> > have
>>> > >> loads of mails dismissing it, instead of ,
>>> (rightly so in my opinion),
>>> > >> birders looking forward to the Autumn, cos they might see a
>>> Short Tailed
>>> > >> Shearwater, or Sooty or
>>> Balearic, or Madeiran Petrel or Dodo.
>>> > >> Jesus!!!!!! the hypocrisy..... is that spelt right? John
>>> Coveney, where
>>> > >> are
>>> > >> you when we need you?
>>> > >> Phil(must lay off the red wine)Davis.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Keeffe" <
>>> > >> okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> To:
>>> > >> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:39 PM
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
>>> Bridges yesterday
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Rick,
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> My friend if Short-tailed falls in between Sooty and
>>> Balearic in
>>> > >>> appearance (closer to Sooty) it could be confusable with either
>>> > species.
>>> > >>> That's not the same as saying Sooty and Balearic are as similar.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Mark,
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> The Pacific birds you mention are all breeding in Northern
>>> Canada> >>> whereas
>>> > >>> Short-tailed breeds in Australia, thousands of miles
>>> further again as
>>> > >>> you
>>> > >>> know. Black-bellied/White-bellied Storm-petrels
>>> breed in the South
>>> > >>> Atlantic. No Short-tailed would a be truely
>>> exceptional record! Then
>>> > >>> again, Streaked Shearwater from the same area made it to
>>> Isreal in
>>> > >>> 1992/1993.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> From reading up on Short-tailed occurrances off the
>>> West Coast of
>>> > North
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>> America they seem to be mainly 1st years. So one
>>> possible scenario
>>> > >>> would
>>> > >>> be that a bird which was born in Australia towards the end
>>> of last year
>>> > >>> has
>>> > >>> spent the last eight or nine months making its way accross
>>> the South
>>> > >>> Pacific
>>> > >>> into the Atlantic, perhaps meeting up with Sooty and Great
>>> Shears a few
>>> > >>> months ago and heading North with them to began its
>>> circuit north.
>>> > >>> Except
>>> > >>> this time it was up the east coast of the Americas
>>> (instead of East
>>> > >>> Asia)
>>> > >>> and finally around to the Irish coast. If one did it
>>> certainly would
>>> > be
>>> >
>>> > >>> a
>>> > >>> mighty job and it would raise the possibility of other
>>> species like
>>> > >>> Pink-footed or Buller's Shearwater doing likewise.
>>> On our Chilean trip
>>> > >>> last
>>> > >>> year we had both these species at 46 degrees south
>>> which is only a day
>>> > >>> or
>>> > >>> two's flight to Cape Horn for one of these guys (the
>>> Buller's was
>>> > >>> exceptional that far south but normal for Pink-footed).
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> I cant wait to hear more about the sighting. It has
>>> certainly livened
>>> > >>> up
>>> > >>> the Autumn!
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Regards
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Mike
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>> From: "richard mundy"
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>> To:
>>> > >>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:00 PM
>>> > >>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
>>> Bridges yesterday
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> How can it be difficult to separate from Sooty and
>>> difficult to
>>> > >>> separate
>>> > >>>> from Balearic? That is tantamount to saying that Sooty is
>>> difficult to
>>> > >>>> separate from Balearic.
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> Rick
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Lee G R Evans
>>> > >>>> wrote:
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> Mike and others
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>> This report came in from Tom Lowe, Dan Brown, Michael
>>> Hoit and one
>>> > >>>>> other
>>> > >>>>> whose name escapes me; described as a possible and not
>>> claimed as
>>> > >>>>> outright.
>>> > >>>>> There have been several claims of this species from
>>> Flamborough Head
>>> > >>>>> in
>>> > >>>>> East
>>> > >>>>> Yorkshire (same observer each time) but as others
>>> have already
>>> > >>>>> commented,
>>> > >>>>> very difficult to separate from both Sooty and Balearic
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>> Best wishes
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>> Lee
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > www.markcarmodyphotography.com
>>> > > My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-
>>> Wilson/dp/1848890176> > )
>>> > > General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
>>> > >
>>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--
Martin Styles
Ballincollig
Cork
Subject: Re: Boring
From: Séamus Feeney <flyfisher1 AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:04:43 +0100
Boring for some, informative for others. I've seen people show their true
colours here on IBN. Thanks to regular un-moderated outbursts from some I
have some idea of what is out there, and I'm not talking about birds. As I
said informative.
Séamus.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Edward Carty"
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 6:00 AM
To:
Subject: Boring
> Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn,
> Lads can all this IRBC V Owen V
> Rob V Whoever be done directly with the Committee instead of on the
> IBN..........its gone full circle several times at this stage.........Ed
>
> --- On Mon, 23/8/10, Phil Davis wrote:
>
>
> From: Phil Davis
> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Date: Monday, 23 August, 2010, 14:38
>
>
> Hi Pat, might I suggest that maybe the reason for the lack of response to
> Robs mail does not show a lack of support but maybe frustration and a
> feeling of inability to change the status quo.
> Now you are "off " the committee and feel free to talk on this subject,
> can I ask "do you still think you were right to be involved in the penning
> of that letter, and why? " Given the last sentence in your mail, it would
> appear that your opinion is still the same.Despite the fact that you admit
> Owen finds rare birds, you maintain he has no standards, as a birder who
> has also found many rare birds and was also accused of having no
> standards, I would dearly like to know what these standards are!
> John....I apologise if my last mail inferred that you were one of the
> "usual suspects", this was not my intention.I have always had the highest
> regard for you as a person and a birder but I have to say I was surprised
> by your mail on the Madeiran, I thought it was very negative and reminded
> me of the many times I have heard other birders slagging peoples finds,
> with little or no justification.
> Eamonn....glad you could find the time to read and reply to Robs post.
> IRBC Members past and present....get off the fence, take a deep breath and
> be honest with yourselves, do you/did you agree with the letter sent to
> Owen....
> Phil.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Lonergan"
>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:21 AM
> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>
>
> RobWe don’t know
> each other; I think we may have met in a crowd once or twice. As a past
> member of the IRBC, I am one of those who penned the infamous letter to
> Owen Foley. It has been IRBC policy not to discuss such matters on a
> public forum like IBN, but as I am now ‘off’ the committee I guess I can
> say
> something. The complete lack of response from anyone to your email of
> August 12th, culminating in your attempt to raise the issue again today,
> should suggest to you that perhaps your views do not have the support of
> 98% of people as you indicated. Could it be that perhaps you are in the
> minority? I think it demonstrates clearly that most people do not care,
> and do not want to engage with you on the subject, possibly because many
> of your posts have become as inaccurate, aggressive and vitriolic as
Owen’s.
> Despite what you may think, no one took any pleasure in writing the letter
> to Owen. We had just introduced the new method of recording, reflected in
> the monthly excel sheet that appears on the IRBC website. Even the most
> cynical (or sceptical….John??) will admit that this has been a major step
> forward in recording, with relatively few of the rare birds being seen
> annually slipping through the net, compared to the case prior to its
> establishment.
> Everything possible was and is done to ensure that the list is as accurate
> and complete as possible. As you are aware, with many species removed from
> the list requiring formal descriptions, the accuracy of the list is
> dependent on the accuracy of the information provided and is, in some
> cases, entirely open to being exploited. Observer integrity plays a key
> role. As I am no longer on the IRBC, I do not pay as close attention to
> ‘the list’ as I should, or used to. However, I was surprised at your
> assertion that Michael (O’Keeffe) is deliberately omitting records from
> Owen. If memory serves me right, Owen asked, or rather demanded, that his
> records not be included. Perhaps he withdrew this request, I don’t
> remember. As you correctly point out, the membership of the IRBC has
> almost completely changed since and it may be that our successors will
> decide on a different course of action in the future; that is their
> prerogative. Their primary
> objective, however, has not changed i.e., to maintain as complete and
> accurate a list of the rare birds occurring each year as possible. Your
> unerring support for Owen is admirable. Owen clearly finds rare birds, as
> do most people who spend time in the field. The problem seems to be the
> application of self-criticism. The subtitle of his blog ‘birding without
> standards’, while presumably tongue-in-cheek, sums it up pretty well.
> Best wishes Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Vaughan
> Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:19 am
> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>
>> John,
>> It seems slightly contradictory that you would ask for a finders
>> descriptionfor these birds so that you can assess them, while at
>> the same time, point
>> out that it is the role of the irbc and not yourself to do so.
>> I would also think it odd that you twice refer to single
>> observer records in
>> your posting when this is not the case in either of these
>> instances, both
>> the madeiran and short tailed were seen by multiple observers.
>> I would also suggest you buy the sound approach, petrels night
>> and day, as
>> you have made it quite clear in both the madeiran thread and the
>> scopolisthread that you are not up to date with the latest
>> information regarding
>> such seabirds and therefore should be the last to comment.
>>
>> 'I do not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
>> whoeverthey might be.' Strange that you would say that, and in
>> the original mail
>> state that you, like many people considered the madeiran and
>> leaches petrel
>> seen off Cape to be the same bird. So if not part of a group,
>> who were you
>> referring to with 'most people?'
>>
>> Having been at the "open forum" yourself back in 2006, I somehow
>> doubt you
>> kept your big mouth shut, when Owen and his sightings came up in
>> "discussion". You have now seen what effect your dismissive
>> emails have had
>> on Ronan and his contribution to the IBN and he is not alone in
>> who thought
>> your mails were abusive. Even Mr O'Keefe thought your e-mail was
>> dismissiveregarding the madeiran and not 'scientific scrutiny'.
>>
>> Perhaps now would be a good time to reiterate my questions to
>> the IRBC.
>> Seeing as they seem to have missed them, or are ignoring them.
>>
>> "Has the policy towards Owen's finds changed and the IRBC did
>> not tell
>> anyone?
>> I notice that since Mike began compiling the IRBC provisional
>> list, most of
>> Owen's rarities have not been placed on the list. Yet I know for
>> a fact that
>> Mike receives this information from birders in Cork and the Cork
>> birdingtwitter service. Is Mike/IRBC now trashing Owen's records
>> before the report
>> publishing stage? (not very provisional) or are they complying
>> with Owen's
>> request that his rarities be kept off the IRBC's books?
>> (something that I am
>> sure Owen would be just fine with). Or does this new version of
>> the IRBC
>> continue to uphold the policy put in place by their predecessors
>> and if so?
>> Why?
>> Why does each member of the IRBC feel that this policy, which
>> most people
>> disagree with, should be upheld?''
>>
>> Kieran, Dermot, Dave Mcadams, Dave Suddaby, Mike, Dick, Joe,?
>>
>> Will you keep hiding or give a stance on where these issues stand?
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 8:29 PM, John Coveney Birds
>> wrote:
>> > Phil and perhaps others (I haven't had time to go back over
>> exactly who
>> > said
>> > what),
>> >
>> > I am currently skeptical, in the scientific sense, of both the
>> Madeiran> Petrel and the Short-tailed Shearwater claims, not
>> because of who saw them,
>> > but because the observers have, to my knowledge, put little or no
>> > information in the public domain. That is, of course, their
>> right but in my
>> > opinion, however, it is then unreasonable if they or others
>> are upset at
>> > skeptical reactions - and it would appear to me that people
>> are skeptical
>> > about both records. In contrast, the reaction to this
>> skepticism seems to
>> > take it all as an attack on one of the observers of the
>> Madeiran Petrel.
>> > Personally, I would not claim such difficult to identify
>> species with
>> > little
>> > or no corroborating evidence.
>> >
>> > I would contrast this approach with that of Paul Walsh in
>> relation to his
>> > recent posting about the possible Yelkouan Shearwater off
>> Brownstown. At
>> > least in that case, we can form opinions based on the
>> available evidence -
>> > it is not the role of the IBN to make decisions or judgments -
>> that is the
>> > job of the IRBC - for those that accept its role. It would be
>> good to see
>> > more discussion of Paul's bird from those with more expertise
>> than me,
>> > based on the details observed. Also, perhaps Lee would give us
>> a summary of
>> > the UK claims and the evidence supporting them.
>> >
>> > In my view, mega-rarity claims from seawatches and single
>> observer sight
>> > only situations will always be difficult to assess ever before the
>> > "observer
>> > factor" is considered - and just before anyone starts pounding their
>> > keyboard, I'm not going there! There are many factors that can
>> be discussed
>> > objectively without flinging around dispersions or even
>> nasturtiums such
>> > as:- patterns of occurrence, or lack of; similarity to other
>> species; the
>> > current knowledge of the ID criteria; distance, light and
>> other conditions
>> > during the observation; and the amount of information obtained
>> during the
>> > observation - bearing in mind the previous point. If people
>> take this
>> > personally, all I can say is that, at least in relation to my
>> > contributions,
>> > it ain't so!
>> >
>> > To make a more general point, I think it is good to see more
>> discussion of
>> > sightings on IBN - it was a bit moribund in the spring. I for
>> one don't
>> > intend to let the circumstances of one particular dispute that
>> I was not
>> > involved in stop me making contributions (I would consider my
>> previous> unofficial "moderating" input as peripheral to the
>> dispute itself).
>> > Furthermore, in posting my views, my intention is to open up
>> skeptical and
>> > even robust discussion on current observations - not on the
>> observers nor
>> > on
>> > previous disputes.
>> >
>> > I would conclude by stressing that my opinions on the IBN are
>> my own - I do
>> > not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
>> whoever they
>> > might be - to misquote Groucho Marx, I don't care to belong to
>> any club
>> > that
>> > people might put me in!
>> >
>> > John C
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On
>> Behalf Of
>> > Phil
>> > Davis
>> > Sent: 20 August 2010 07:45
>> > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
>> yesterday>
>> > Hi Mark, I wasn't implying that you were dissing the record,
>> the exact
>> > opposite in fact. The point I was making was that none of the usual
>> > suspects
>> >
>> > have been on rubbishing this bird, yet when Madeiran Petrel
>> was claimed by
>> > two excellent birders they were all over the record like a
>> rash! I just
>> > think its strange.
>> > Phil
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Mark Carmody"
>> > To:
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:09 PM
>> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
>> yesterday>
>> >
>> > > Phil, I'm not dissing the record...I hope it is one! It's
>> made up mind to
>> > > head to Galley this weekend. Haven't been seawatching this
>> year yet and
>> > am
>> > > chomping at the bit now. I haven't seen a Cory's in a long
>> time so that
>> > > for
>> > > me would be brilliant. Anything else would be a bonus ;)
>> > >
>> > > Mark
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Phil Davis
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> I'm so glad Owen didn't claim this (possible)bird, cos then
>> we would
>> > have
>> > >> loads of mails dismissing it, instead of ,
>> (rightly so in my opinion),
>> > >> birders looking forward to the Autumn, cos they might see a
>> Short Tailed
>> > >> Shearwater, or Sooty or
>> Balearic, or Madeiran Petrel or Dodo.
>> > >> Jesus!!!!!! the hypocrisy..... is that spelt right? John
>> Coveney, where
>> > >> are
>> > >> you when we need you?
>> > >> Phil(must lay off the red wine)Davis.
>> > >>
>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Keeffe" <
>> > >> okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
>> > >>
>> > >> To:
>> > >> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:39 PM
>> > >>
>> > >> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
>> Bridges yesterday
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Rick,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> My friend if Short-tailed falls in between Sooty and
>> Balearic in
>> > >>> appearance (closer to Sooty) it could be confusable with either
>> > species.
>> > >>> That's not the same as saying Sooty and Balearic are as similar.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Mark,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The Pacific birds you mention are all breeding in Northern
>> Canada> >>> whereas
>> > >>> Short-tailed breeds in Australia, thousands of miles
>> further again as
>> > >>> you
>> > >>> know. Black-bellied/White-bellied Storm-petrels
>> breed in the South
>> > >>> Atlantic. No Short-tailed would a be truely
>> exceptional record! Then
>> > >>> again, Streaked Shearwater from the same area made it to
>> Isreal in
>> > >>> 1992/1993.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> From reading up on Short-tailed occurrances off the
>> West Coast of
>> > North
>> > >>>>
>> > >>> America they seem to be mainly 1st years. So one
>> possible scenario
>> > >>> would
>> > >>> be that a bird which was born in Australia towards the end
>> of last year
>> > >>> has
>> > >>> spent the last eight or nine months making its way accross
>> the South
>> > >>> Pacific
>> > >>> into the Atlantic, perhaps meeting up with Sooty and Great
>> Shears a few
>> > >>> months ago and heading North with them to began its
>> circuit north.
>> > >>> Except
>> > >>> this time it was up the east coast of the Americas
>> (instead of East
>> > >>> Asia)
>> > >>> and finally around to the Irish coast. If one did it
>> certainly would
>> > be
>> >
>> > >>> a
>> > >>> mighty job and it would raise the possibility of other
>> species like
>> > >>> Pink-footed or Buller's Shearwater doing likewise.
>> On our Chilean trip
>> > >>> last
>> > >>> year we had both these species at 46 degrees south
>> which is only a day
>> > >>> or
>> > >>> two's flight to Cape Horn for one of these guys (the
>> Buller's was
>> > >>> exceptional that far south but normal for Pink-footed).
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I cant wait to hear more about the sighting. It has
>> certainly livened
>> > >>> up
>> > >>> the Autumn!
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Regards
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Mike
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> From: "richard mundy"
>> > >>>>
>> > >>> To:
>> > >>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:00 PM
>> > >>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
>> Bridges yesterday
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> How can it be difficult to separate from Sooty and
>> difficult to
>> > >>> separate
>> > >>>> from Balearic? That is tantamount to saying that Sooty is
>> difficult to
>> > >>>> separate from Balearic.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Rick
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Lee G R Evans
>> > >>>> wrote:
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Mike and others
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> This report came in from Tom Lowe, Dan Brown, Michael
>> Hoit and one
>> > >>>>> other
>> > >>>>> whose name escapes me; described as a possible and not
>> claimed as
>> > >>>>> outright.
>> > >>>>> There have been several claims of this species from
>> Flamborough Head
>> > >>>>> in
>> > >>>>> East
>> > >>>>> Yorkshire (same observer each time) but as others
>> have already
>> > >>>>> commented,
>> > >>>>> very difficult to separate from both Sooty and Balearic
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> Best wishes
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> Lee
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > www.markcarmodyphotography.com
>> > > My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
>> > >
>> >
>> > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-
>> Wilson/dp/1848890176> > )
>> > > General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
>> > >
>> >
>
>
>
>
Subject: Boring
From: Edward Carty <vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 05:00:23 +0000
Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn,
                                         Â
Lads can all this IRBC V Owen V Rob V Whoever be done directly with the
Committee instead of on the IBN..........its gone full circle several times at
this stage.........Ed
--- On Mon, 23/8/10, Phil Davis wrote:
From: Phil Davis
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Date: Monday, 23 August, 2010, 14:38
Hi Pat, might I suggest that maybe the reason for the lack of response to Robs
mail does not show a lack of support but maybe frustration and a feeling of
inability to change the status quo.
Now you are "off " the committee and feel free to talk on this subject, can I
ask "do you still think you were right to be involved in the penning of that
letter, and why? " Given the last sentence in your mail, it would appear that
your opinion is still the same.Despite the fact that you admit Owen finds rare
birds, you maintain he has no standards, as a birder who has also found many
rare birds and was also accused of having no standards, I would dearly like to
know what these standards are!
John....I apologise if my last mail inferred that you were one of the "usual
suspects", this was not my intention.I have always had the highest regard for
you as a person and a birder but I have to say I was surprised by your mail on
the Madeiran, I thought it was very negative and reminded me of the many times
I have heard other birders slagging peoples finds, with little or no
justification.
Eamonn....glad you could find the time to read and reply to Robs post.
IRBC Members past and present....get off the fence, take a deep breath and be
honest with yourselves, do you/did you agree with the letter sent to Owen....
Phil.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Lonergan"
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
   RobWe don’t know
each other; I think we may have met in a crowd once or twice. As a past
member of the IRBC, I am one of those who penned the infamous letter to Owen
Foley. It has been IRBC policy not to discuss such matters on a public forum
like IBN, but as I am now ‘off’ the committee I guess I can say
something. The complete lack of response from anyone to your email of August
12th, culminating in your attempt to raise the issue again today, should
suggest to you that perhaps your views do not have the support of 98% of people
as you indicated. Could it be that perhaps you are in the minority? I think it
demonstrates clearly that most people do not care, and do not want to engage
with you on the subject, possibly because many of your posts have become as
inaccurate, aggressive and vitriolic as Owen’s. Despite what you may think,
no one took any pleasure in writing the letter to Owen. We had just introduced
the new method of recording, reflected in the monthly excel sheet that appears
on the IRBC website. Even the most cynical (or sceptical….John??) will admit
that this has been a major step forward in recording, with relatively few of
the rare birds being seen annually slipping through the net, compared to the
case prior to its establishment.
Everything possible was and is done to ensure that the list is as accurate and
complete as possible. As you are aware, with many species removed from the list
requiring formal descriptions, the accuracy of the list is dependent on the
accuracy of the information provided and is, in some cases, entirely open to
being exploited. Observer integrity plays a key role. As I am no longer on
the IRBC, I do not pay as close attention to ‘the list’ as I should, or
used to. However, I was surprised at your assertion that Michael (O’Keeffe)
is deliberately omitting records from Owen. If memory serves me right, Owen
asked, or rather demanded, that his records not be included. Perhaps he
withdrew this request, I don’t remember. As you correctly point out, the
membership of the IRBC has almost completely changed since and it may be that
our successors will decide on a different course of action in the future; that
is their prerogative. Their primary
objective, however, has not changed i.e., to maintain as complete and accurate
a list of the rare birds occurring each year as possible. Your unerring
support for Owen is admirable. Owen clearly finds rare birds, as do most people
who spend time in the field. The problem seems to be the application of
self-criticism. The subtitle of his blog ‘birding without standards’, while
presumably tongue-in-cheek, sums it up pretty well. Best wishes Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Vaughan
Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:19 am
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> John,
> It seems slightly contradictory that you would ask for a finders
> descriptionfor these birds so that you can assess them, while at
> the same time, point
> out that it is the role of the irbc and not yourself to do so.
> I would also think it odd that you twice refer to single
> observer records in
> your posting when this is not the case in either of these
> instances, both
> the madeiran and short tailed were seen by multiple observers.
> I would also suggest you buy the sound approach, petrels night
> and day, as
> you have made it quite clear in both the madeiran thread and the
> scopolisthread that you are not up to date with the latest
> information regarding
> such seabirds and therefore should be the last to comment.
>
> 'I do not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
> whoeverthey might be.' Strange that you would say that, and in
> the original mail
> state that you, like many people considered the madeiran and
> leaches petrel
> seen off Cape to be the same bird. So if not part of a group,
> who were you
> referring to with 'most people?'
>
> Having been at the "open forum" yourself back in 2006, I somehow
> doubt you
> kept your big mouth shut, when Owen and his sightings came up in
> "discussion". You have now seen what effect your dismissive
> emails have had
> on Ronan and his contribution to the IBN and he is not alone in
> who thought
> your mails were abusive. Even Mr O'Keefe thought your e-mail was
> dismissiveregarding the madeiran and not 'scientific scrutiny'.
>
> Perhaps now would be a good time to reiterate my questions to
> the IRBC.
> Seeing as they seem to have missed them, or are ignoring them.
>
> "Has the policy towards Owen's finds changed and the IRBC did
> not tell
> anyone?
> I notice that since Mike began compiling the IRBC provisional
> list, most of
> Owen's rarities have not been placed on the list. Yet I know for
> a fact that
> Mike receives this information from birders in Cork and the Cork
> birdingtwitter service. Is Mike/IRBC now trashing Owen's records
> before the report
> publishing stage? (not very provisional) or are they complying
> with Owen's
> request that his rarities be kept off the IRBC's books?
> (something that I am
> sure Owen would be just fine with). Or does this new version of
> the IRBC
> continue to uphold the policy put in place by their predecessors
> and if so?
> Why?
> Why does each member of the IRBC feel that this policy, which
> most people
> disagree with, should be upheld?''
>
> Kieran, Dermot, Dave Mcadams, Dave Suddaby, Mike, Dick, Joe,?
>
> Will you keep hiding or give a stance on where these issues stand?
>
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 8:29 PM, John Coveney Birds
> wrote:
> > Phil and perhaps others (I haven't had time to go back over
> exactly who
> > said
> > what),
> >
> > I am currently skeptical, in the scientific sense, of both the
> Madeiran> Petrel and the Short-tailed Shearwater claims, not
> because of who saw them,
> > but because the observers have, to my knowledge, put little or no
> > information in the public domain. That is, of course, their
> right but in my
> > opinion, however, it is then unreasonable if they or others
> are upset at
> > skeptical reactions - and it would appear to me that people
> are skeptical
> > about both records. In contrast, the reaction to this
> skepticism seems to
> > take it all as an attack on one of the observers of the
> Madeiran Petrel.
> > Personally, I would not claim such difficult to identify
> species with
> > little
> > or no corroborating evidence.
> >
> > I would contrast this approach with that of Paul Walsh in
> relation to his
> > recent posting about the possible Yelkouan Shearwater off
> Brownstown. At
> > least in that case, we can form opinions based on the
> available evidence -
> > it is not the role of the IBN to make decisions or judgments -
> that is the
> > job of the IRBC - for those that accept its role. It would be
> good to see
> > more discussion of Paul's bird from those with more expertise
> than me,
> > based on the details observed. Also, perhaps Lee would give us
> a summary of
> > the UK claims and the evidence supporting them.
> >
> > In my view, mega-rarity claims from seawatches and single
> observer sight
> > only situations will always be difficult to assess ever before the
> > "observer
> > factor" is considered - and just before anyone starts pounding their
> > keyboard, I'm not going there! There are many factors that can
> be discussed
> > objectively without flinging around dispersions or even
> nasturtiums such
> > as:- patterns of occurrence, or lack of; similarity to other
> species; the
> > current knowledge of the ID criteria; distance, light and
> other conditions
> > during the observation; and the amount of information obtained
> during the
> > observation - bearing in mind the previous point. If people
> take this
> > personally, all I can say is that, at least in relation to my
> > contributions,
> > it ain't so!
> >
> > To make a more general point, I think it is good to see more
> discussion of
> > sightings on IBN - it was a bit moribund in the spring. I for
> one don't
> > intend to let the circumstances of one particular dispute that
> I was not
> > involved in stop me making contributions (I would consider my
> previous> unofficial "moderating" input as peripheral to the
> dispute itself).
> > Furthermore, in posting my views, my intention is to open up
> skeptical and
> > even robust discussion on current observations - not on the
> observers nor
> > on
> > previous disputes.
> >
> > I would conclude by stressing that my opinions on the IBN are
> my own - I do
> > not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
> whoever they
> > might be - to misquote Groucho Marx, I don't care to belong to
> any club
> > that
> > people might put me in!
> >
> > John C
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On
> Behalf Of
> > Phil
> > Davis
> > Sent: 20 August 2010 07:45
> > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
> yesterday>
> > Hi Mark, I wasn't implying that you were dissing the record,
> the exact
> > opposite in fact. The point I was making was that none of the usual
> > suspects
> >
> > have been on rubbishing this bird, yet when Madeiran Petrel
> was claimed by
> > two excellent birders they were all over the record like a
> rash! I just
> > think its strange.
> > Phil
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Carmody"
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
> yesterday>
> >
> > > Phil, I'm not dissing the record...I hope it is one! It's
> made up mind to
> > > head to Galley this weekend. Haven't been seawatching this
> year yet and
> > am
> > > chomping at the bit now. I haven't seen a Cory's in a long
> time so that
> > > for
> > > me would be brilliant. Anything else would be a bonus ;)
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Phil Davis
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I'm so glad Owen didn't claim this (possible)bird, cos then
> we would
> > have
> > >> loads of mails dismissing it, instead of ,
> (rightly so in my opinion),
> > >> birders looking forward to the Autumn, cos they might see a
> Short Tailed
> > >> Shearwater, or Sooty or
> Balearic, or Madeiran Petrel or Dodo.
> > >> Jesus!!!!!! the hypocrisy..... is that spelt right? John
> Coveney, where
> > >> are
> > >> you when we need you?
> > >> Phil(must lay off the red wine)Davis.
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Keeffe" <
> > >> okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
> > >>
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:39 PM
> > >>
> > >> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
> Bridges yesterday
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Rick,
> > >>>
> > >>> My friend if Short-tailed falls in between Sooty and
> Balearic in
> > >>> appearance (closer to Sooty) it could be confusable with either
> > species.
> > >>> That's not the same as saying Sooty and Balearic are as similar.
> > >>>
> > >>> Mark,
> > >>>
> > >>> The Pacific birds you mention are all breeding in Northern
> Canada> >>> whereas
> > >>> Short-tailed breeds in Australia, thousands of miles
> further again as
> > >>> you
> > >>> know. Black-bellied/White-bellied Storm-petrels
> breed in the South
> > >>> Atlantic. No Short-tailed would a be truely
> exceptional record! Then
> > >>> again, Streaked Shearwater from the same area made it to
> Isreal in
> > >>> 1992/1993.
> > >>>
> > >>> From reading up on Short-tailed occurrances off the
> West Coast of
> > North
> > >>>>
> > >>> America they seem to be mainly 1st years. So one
> possible scenario
> > >>> would
> > >>> be that a bird which was born in Australia towards the end
> of last year
> > >>> has
> > >>> spent the last eight or nine months making its way accross
> the South
> > >>> Pacific
> > >>> into the Atlantic, perhaps meeting up with Sooty and Great
> Shears a few
> > >>> months ago and heading North with them to began its
> circuit north.
> > >>> Except
> > >>> this time it was up the east coast of the Americas
> (instead of East
> > >>> Asia)
> > >>> and finally around to the Irish coast. If one did it
> certainly would
> > be
> >
> > >>> a
> > >>> mighty job and it would raise the possibility of other
> species like
> > >>> Pink-footed or Buller's Shearwater doing likewise.
> On our Chilean trip
> > >>> last
> > >>> year we had both these species at 46 degrees south
> which is only a day
> > >>> or
> > >>> two's flight to Cape Horn for one of these guys (the
> Buller's was
> > >>> exceptional that far south but normal for Pink-footed).
> > >>>
> > >>> I cant wait to hear more about the sighting. It has
> certainly livened
> > >>> up
> > >>> the Autumn!
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards
> > >>>
> > >>> Mike
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>
> > >>>> From: "richard mundy"
> > >>>>
> > >>> To:
> > >>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:00 PM
> > >>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
> Bridges yesterday
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> How can it be difficult to separate from Sooty and
> difficult to
> > >>> separate
> > >>>> from Balearic? That is tantamount to saying that Sooty is
> difficult to
> > >>>> separate from Balearic.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Rick
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Lee G R Evans
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Mike and others
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> This report came in from Tom Lowe, Dan Brown, Michael
> Hoit and one
> > >>>>> other
> > >>>>> whose name escapes me; described as a possible and not
> claimed as
> > >>>>> outright.
> > >>>>> There have been several claims of this species from
> Flamborough Head
> > >>>>> in
> > >>>>> East
> > >>>>> Yorkshire (same observer each time) but as others
> have already
> > >>>>> commented,
> > >>>>> very difficult to separate from both Sooty and Balearic
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Best wishes
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Lee
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > www.markcarmodyphotography.com
> > > My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
> > >
> >
> > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-
> Wilson/dp/1848890176> > )
> > > General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
> > >
> >
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Phil Davis <phildavis AT IOL.IE>
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 14:38:44 +0100
Hi Pat, might I suggest that maybe the reason for the lack of response to
Robs mail does not show a lack of support but maybe frustration and a
feeling of inability to change the status quo.
Now you are "off " the committee and feel free to talk on this subject, can
I ask "do you still think you were right to be involved in the penning of
that letter, and why? " Given the last sentence in your mail, it would
appear that your opinion is still the same.Despite the fact that you admit
Owen finds rare birds, you maintain he has no standards, as a birder who
has also found many rare birds and was also accused of having no standards,
I would dearly like to know what these standards are!
John....I apologise if my last mail inferred that you were one of the "usual
suspects", this was not my intention.I have always had the highest regard
for you as a person and a birder but I have to say I was surprised by your
mail on the Madeiran, I thought it was very negative and reminded me of the
many times I have heard other birders slagging peoples finds, with little or
no justification.
Eamonn....glad you could find the time to read and reply to Robs post.
IRBC Members past and present....get off the fence, take a deep breath and
be honest with yourselves, do you/did you agree with the letter sent to
Owen....
Phil.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Lonergan"
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
RobWe don’t know each other; I think we may have met
in a crowd once or twice. As a past member of the IRBC, I am one of those
who penned the infamous letter to Owen Foley. It has been IRBC policy not to
discuss such matters on a public forum like IBN, but as I am now ‘off’ the
committee I guess I can say something. The complete lack of response from
anyone to your email of August 12th, culminating in your attempt to raise
the issue again today, should suggest to you that perhaps your views do not
have the support of 98% of people as you indicated. Could it be that perhaps
you are in the minority? I think it demonstrates clearly that most people do
not care, and do not want to engage with you on the subject, possibly
because many of your posts have become as inaccurate, aggressive and
vitriolic as Owen’s. Despite what you may think, no one took any pleasure
in writing the letter to Owen. We had just introduced the new method of
recording, reflected in the monthly excel sheet that appears on the IRBC
website. Even the most cynical (or sceptical….John??) will admit that this
has been a major step forward in recording, with relatively few of the rare
birds being seen annually slipping through the net, compared to the case
prior to its establishment. Everything possible was and is done to ensure
that the list is as accurate and complete as possible. As you are aware,
with many species removed from the list requiring formal descriptions, the
accuracy of the list is dependent on the accuracy of the information
provided and is, in some cases, entirely open to being exploited. Observer
integrity plays a key role. As I am no longer on the IRBC, I do not pay as
close attention to ‘the list’ as I should, or used to. However, I was
surprised at your assertion that Michael (O’Keeffe) is deliberately omitting
records from Owen. If memory serves me right, Owen asked, or rather
demanded, that his records not be included. Perhaps he withdrew this
request, I don’t remember. As you correctly point out, the membership of
the IRBC has almost completely changed since and it may be that our
successors will decide on a different course of action in the future; that
is their prerogative. Their primary objective, however, has not changed
i.e., to maintain as complete and accurate a list of the rare birds
occurring each year as possible. Your unerring support for Owen is
admirable. Owen clearly finds rare birds, as do most people who spend time
in the field. The problem seems to be the application of self-criticism. The
subtitle of his blog ‘birding without standards’, while presumably
tongue-in-cheek, sums it up pretty well. Best wishes Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Vaughan
Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:19 am
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> John,
> It seems slightly contradictory that you would ask for a finders
> descriptionfor these birds so that you can assess them, while at
> the same time, point
> out that it is the role of the irbc and not yourself to do so.
> I would also think it odd that you twice refer to single
> observer records in
> your posting when this is not the case in either of these
> instances, both
> the madeiran and short tailed were seen by multiple observers.
> I would also suggest you buy the sound approach, petrels night
> and day, as
> you have made it quite clear in both the madeiran thread and the
> scopolisthread that you are not up to date with the latest
> information regarding
> such seabirds and therefore should be the last to comment.
>
> 'I do not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
> whoeverthey might be.' Strange that you would say that, and in
> the original mail
> state that you, like many people considered the madeiran and
> leaches petrel
> seen off Cape to be the same bird. So if not part of a group,
> who were you
> referring to with 'most people?'
>
> Having been at the "open forum" yourself back in 2006, I somehow
> doubt you
> kept your big mouth shut, when Owen and his sightings came up in
> "discussion". You have now seen what effect your dismissive
> emails have had
> on Ronan and his contribution to the IBN and he is not alone in
> who thought
> your mails were abusive. Even Mr O'Keefe thought your e-mail was
> dismissiveregarding the madeiran and not 'scientific scrutiny'.
>
> Perhaps now would be a good time to reiterate my questions to
> the IRBC.
> Seeing as they seem to have missed them, or are ignoring them.
>
> "Has the policy towards Owen's finds changed and the IRBC did
> not tell
> anyone?
> I notice that since Mike began compiling the IRBC provisional
> list, most of
> Owen's rarities have not been placed on the list. Yet I know for
> a fact that
> Mike receives this information from birders in Cork and the Cork
> birdingtwitter service. Is Mike/IRBC now trashing Owen's records
> before the report
> publishing stage? (not very provisional) or are they complying
> with Owen's
> request that his rarities be kept off the IRBC's books?
> (something that I am
> sure Owen would be just fine with). Or does this new version of
> the IRBC
> continue to uphold the policy put in place by their predecessors
> and if so?
> Why?
> Why does each member of the IRBC feel that this policy, which
> most people
> disagree with, should be upheld?''
>
> Kieran, Dermot, Dave Mcadams, Dave Suddaby, Mike, Dick, Joe,?
>
> Will you keep hiding or give a stance on where these issues stand?
>
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 8:29 PM, John Coveney Birds
> wrote:
> > Phil and perhaps others (I haven't had time to go back over
> exactly who
> > said
> > what),
> >
> > I am currently skeptical, in the scientific sense, of both the
> Madeiran> Petrel and the Short-tailed Shearwater claims, not
> because of who saw them,
> > but because the observers have, to my knowledge, put little or no
> > information in the public domain. That is, of course, their
> right but in my
> > opinion, however, it is then unreasonable if they or others
> are upset at
> > skeptical reactions - and it would appear to me that people
> are skeptical
> > about both records. In contrast, the reaction to this
> skepticism seems to
> > take it all as an attack on one of the observers of the
> Madeiran Petrel.
> > Personally, I would not claim such difficult to identify
> species with
> > little
> > or no corroborating evidence.
> >
> > I would contrast this approach with that of Paul Walsh in
> relation to his
> > recent posting about the possible Yelkouan Shearwater off
> Brownstown. At
> > least in that case, we can form opinions based on the
> available evidence -
> > it is not the role of the IBN to make decisions or judgments -
> that is the
> > job of the IRBC - for those that accept its role. It would be
> good to see
> > more discussion of Paul's bird from those with more expertise
> than me,
> > based on the details observed. Also, perhaps Lee would give us
> a summary of
> > the UK claims and the evidence supporting them.
> >
> > In my view, mega-rarity claims from seawatches and single
> observer sight
> > only situations will always be difficult to assess ever before the
> > "observer
> > factor" is considered - and just before anyone starts pounding their
> > keyboard, I'm not going there! There are many factors that can
> be discussed
> > objectively without flinging around dispersions or even
> nasturtiums such
> > as:- patterns of occurrence, or lack of; similarity to other
> species; the
> > current knowledge of the ID criteria; distance, light and
> other conditions
> > during the observation; and the amount of information obtained
> during the
> > observation - bearing in mind the previous point. If people
> take this
> > personally, all I can say is that, at least in relation to my
> > contributions,
> > it ain't so!
> >
> > To make a more general point, I think it is good to see more
> discussion of
> > sightings on IBN - it was a bit moribund in the spring. I for
> one don't
> > intend to let the circumstances of one particular dispute that
> I was not
> > involved in stop me making contributions (I would consider my
> previous> unofficial "moderating" input as peripheral to the
> dispute itself).
> > Furthermore, in posting my views, my intention is to open up
> skeptical and
> > even robust discussion on current observations - not on the
> observers nor
> > on
> > previous disputes.
> >
> > I would conclude by stressing that my opinions on the IBN are
> my own - I do
> > not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
> whoever they
> > might be - to misquote Groucho Marx, I don't care to belong to
> any club
> > that
> > people might put me in!
> >
> > John C
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On
> Behalf Of
> > Phil
> > Davis
> > Sent: 20 August 2010 07:45
> > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
> yesterday>
> > Hi Mark, I wasn't implying that you were dissing the record,
> the exact
> > opposite in fact. The point I was making was that none of the usual
> > suspects
> >
> > have been on rubbishing this bird, yet when Madeiran Petrel
> was claimed by
> > two excellent birders they were all over the record like a
> rash! I just
> > think its strange.
> > Phil
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Carmody"
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
> yesterday>
> >
> > > Phil, I'm not dissing the record...I hope it is one! It's
> made up mind to
> > > head to Galley this weekend. Haven't been seawatching this
> year yet and
> > am
> > > chomping at the bit now. I haven't seen a Cory's in a long
> time so that
> > > for
> > > me would be brilliant. Anything else would be a bonus ;)
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Phil Davis
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I'm so glad Owen didn't claim this (possible)bird, cos then
> we would
> > have
> > >> loads of mails dismissing it, instead of ,
> (rightly so in my opinion),
> > >> birders looking forward to the Autumn, cos they might see a
> Short Tailed
> > >> Shearwater, or Sooty or
> Balearic, or Madeiran Petrel or Dodo.
> > >> Jesus!!!!!! the hypocrisy..... is that spelt right? John
> Coveney, where
> > >> are
> > >> you when we need you?
> > >> Phil(must lay off the red wine)Davis.
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Keeffe" <
> > >> okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
> > >>
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:39 PM
> > >>
> > >> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
> Bridges yesterday
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Rick,
> > >>>
> > >>> My friend if Short-tailed falls in between Sooty and
> Balearic in
> > >>> appearance (closer to Sooty) it could be confusable with either
> > species.
> > >>> That's not the same as saying Sooty and Balearic are as similar.
> > >>>
> > >>> Mark,
> > >>>
> > >>> The Pacific birds you mention are all breeding in Northern
> Canada> >>> whereas
> > >>> Short-tailed breeds in Australia, thousands of miles
> further again as
> > >>> you
> > >>> know. Black-bellied/White-bellied Storm-petrels
> breed in the South
> > >>> Atlantic. No Short-tailed would a be truely
> exceptional record! Then
> > >>> again, Streaked Shearwater from the same area made it to
> Isreal in
> > >>> 1992/1993.
> > >>>
> > >>> From reading up on Short-tailed occurrances off the
> West Coast of
> > North
> > >>>>
> > >>> America they seem to be mainly 1st years. So one
> possible scenario
> > >>> would
> > >>> be that a bird which was born in Australia towards the end
> of last year
> > >>> has
> > >>> spent the last eight or nine months making its way accross
> the South
> > >>> Pacific
> > >>> into the Atlantic, perhaps meeting up with Sooty and Great
> Shears a few
> > >>> months ago and heading North with them to began its
> circuit north.
> > >>> Except
> > >>> this time it was up the east coast of the Americas
> (instead of East
> > >>> Asia)
> > >>> and finally around to the Irish coast. If one did it
> certainly would
> > be
> >
> > >>> a
> > >>> mighty job and it would raise the possibility of other
> species like
> > >>> Pink-footed or Buller's Shearwater doing likewise.
> On our Chilean trip
> > >>> last
> > >>> year we had both these species at 46 degrees south
> which is only a day
> > >>> or
> > >>> two's flight to Cape Horn for one of these guys (the
> Buller's was
> > >>> exceptional that far south but normal for Pink-footed).
> > >>>
> > >>> I cant wait to hear more about the sighting. It has
> certainly livened
> > >>> up
> > >>> the Autumn!
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards
> > >>>
> > >>> Mike
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>
> > >>>> From: "richard mundy"
> > >>>>
> > >>> To:
> > >>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:00 PM
> > >>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
> Bridges yesterday
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> How can it be difficult to separate from Sooty and
> difficult to
> > >>> separate
> > >>>> from Balearic? That is tantamount to saying that Sooty is
> difficult to
> > >>>> separate from Balearic.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Rick
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Lee G R Evans
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Mike and others
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> This report came in from Tom Lowe, Dan Brown, Michael
> Hoit and one
> > >>>>> other
> > >>>>> whose name escapes me; described as a possible and not
> claimed as
> > >>>>> outright.
> > >>>>> There have been several claims of this species from
> Flamborough Head
> > >>>>> in
> > >>>>> East
> > >>>>> Yorkshire (same observer each time) but as others
> have already
> > >>>>> commented,
> > >>>>> very difficult to separate from both Sooty and Balearic
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Best wishes
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Lee
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > www.markcarmodyphotography.com
> > > My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
> > >
> >
> > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-
> Wilson/dp/1848890176> > )
> > > General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
> > >
> >
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: julian wyllie <jhwyllie AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 03:31:40 +0100
Jeez lads, take it easy. Birds are fab and we love them. End of fucking
story.
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Eamonn O'Donnell wrote:
> Since when have you become a victim or is that just another incorrect
> assertion?
> I have been out of the birding circle for many years but I have heard your
> name mentioned a number of times over the last few years and it was all
> good.
> I feel you are depleting that view that birders may have had for you.
> If you were 'the victim' it may be understandable but for your own
> reputation you really should give up this tirade on Owen's behalf.
>
> There is so much rubbish typed below it would difficult to know where to
> start a reply.
>
> Good luck to anybody who may have too much time on their hands and feels
> the
> need to reply.
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Robert Vaughan >wrote:
>
> > Pat,
> > firstly, speaking of inaccuracy, it was not I who said that there was 98%
> > support for Owen but a current member of the IRBC, who said that he, like
> > 98% of birders in Ireland felt your letter was out of order.
> > While it may be clear that some people do not care, there are still some
> > who
> > think your actions need correcting. You say that it is not the IRBC's
> > policy
> > to discuss matters such as this on a public forum such as the IBN, yet
> had
> > no problem discussing the situation at an open forum which each and
> > everyone
> > of you has hidden behind for over 5 years. This issue has been raised
> > before, and if you wish not to respond to it publicly, there is nothing
> > stopping you dealing with it privately.
> > In regards to the assertion that Michael is deliberately omitting Owen's
> > records, I was not making any assertion, I was simply asking what the
> > background to this was. For example why records such as the white stork,
> > which made it onto the IBN, did not make the provisional list, and there
> > are
> > several other records. Indeed, Owen did say that he did not wish his
> > records
> > to be used, but the IRBC said that they would not comply with these
> > requests. The IRBC has not made it clear what it is doing.
> > You have a completely lop-sided argument saying that on one hand Owen is
> > out
> > finding rare birds, but on the other hand saying that he has no standards
> > when he finds them (clearly irony eludes you). He seems to do very well
> for
> > someone without standards, wouldn't you agree? Ask any of the committee
> > members who can view his rare birds photo collection on facebook.
> > You say you dont know me, but you certainly don't know Owen and you are
> in
> > no position to assess his standards. It seems to have escaped you that
> your
> > role as a rarity committee member was to assess rare bird records and not
> > pass down judgement from on high on other observers.
> > Perhaps if the current IRBC would publicly or privately like to comment
> and
> > state where they stand in regard to Owen, things may move forward.
> > As for my mails (and Owen's) being aggressive don't start a fight and try
> > and blame the victim for standing up for themselves, you have had 5 years
> > to
> > deal with it, surely you can understand growing frustration over your,
> and
> > other members/ former members cowardice?
> > Robert
> >
>
Subject: Continuing assessment of Owen Foley's records
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 15:41:13 EDT
I have just changed the thread title - the Short-tailed Shearwater thread
seems to have been hijacked
Out of interest, we have these same feuds raging in Britain and many
records are not submitted to the National Committee. I, for example, am guilty
of this and have not submitted a record since the early 1990's. Some records
though do make their way in to more localised bird reports and I was just
wondering if Owen's records make the grade in say the annual Cork Bird
Report.
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Eamonn O'Donnell <bobolink300 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:24:50 +0100
Since when have you become a victim or is that just another incorrect
assertion?
I have been out of the birding circle for many years but I have heard your
name mentioned a number of times over the last few years and it was all
good.
I feel you are depleting that view that birders may have had for you.
If you were 'the victim' it may be understandable but for your own
reputation you really should give up this tirade on Owen's behalf.
There is so much rubbish typed below it would difficult to know where to
start a reply.
Good luck to anybody who may have too much time on their hands and feels the
need to reply.
Bob
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Robert Vaughan wrote:
> Pat,
> firstly, speaking of inaccuracy, it was not I who said that there was 98%
> support for Owen but a current member of the IRBC, who said that he, like
> 98% of birders in Ireland felt your letter was out of order.
> While it may be clear that some people do not care, there are still some
> who
> think your actions need correcting. You say that it is not the IRBC's
> policy
> to discuss matters such as this on a public forum such as the IBN, yet had
> no problem discussing the situation at an open forum which each and
> everyone
> of you has hidden behind for over 5 years. This issue has been raised
> before, and if you wish not to respond to it publicly, there is nothing
> stopping you dealing with it privately.
> In regards to the assertion that Michael is deliberately omitting Owen's
> records, I was not making any assertion, I was simply asking what the
> background to this was. For example why records such as the white stork,
> which made it onto the IBN, did not make the provisional list, and there
> are
> several other records. Indeed, Owen did say that he did not wish his
> records
> to be used, but the IRBC said that they would not comply with these
> requests. The IRBC has not made it clear what it is doing.
> You have a completely lop-sided argument saying that on one hand Owen is
> out
> finding rare birds, but on the other hand saying that he has no standards
> when he finds them (clearly irony eludes you). He seems to do very well for
> someone without standards, wouldn't you agree? Ask any of the committee
> members who can view his rare birds photo collection on facebook.
> You say you dont know me, but you certainly don't know Owen and you are in
> no position to assess his standards. It seems to have escaped you that your
> role as a rarity committee member was to assess rare bird records and not
> pass down judgement from on high on other observers.
> Perhaps if the current IRBC would publicly or privately like to comment and
> state where they stand in regard to Owen, things may move forward.
> As for my mails (and Owen's) being aggressive don't start a fight and try
> and blame the victim for standing up for themselves, you have had 5 years
> to
> deal with it, surely you can understand growing frustration over your, and
> other members/ former members cowardice?
> Robert
>
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Robert Vaughan <robertvaug AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:14:29 +0100
Pat,
firstly, speaking of inaccuracy, it was not I who said that there was 98%
support for Owen but a current member of the IRBC, who said that he, like
98% of birders in Ireland felt your letter was out of order.
While it may be clear that some people do not care, there are still some who
think your actions need correcting. You say that it is not the IRBC's policy
to discuss matters such as this on a public forum such as the IBN, yet had
no problem discussing the situation at an open forum which each and everyone
of you has hidden behind for over 5 years. This issue has been raised
before, and if you wish not to respond to it publicly, there is nothing
stopping you dealing with it privately.
In regards to the assertion that Michael is deliberately omitting Owen's
records, I was not making any assertion, I was simply asking what the
background to this was. For example why records such as the white stork,
which made it onto the IBN, did not make the provisional list, and there are
several other records. Indeed, Owen did say that he did not wish his records
to be used, but the IRBC said that they would not comply with these
requests. The IRBC has not made it clear what it is doing.
You have a completely lop-sided argument saying that on one hand Owen is out
finding rare birds, but on the other hand saying that he has no standards
when he finds them (clearly irony eludes you). He seems to do very well for
someone without standards, wouldn't you agree? Ask any of the committee
members who can view his rare birds photo collection on facebook.
You say you dont know me, but you certainly don't know Owen and you are in
no position to assess his standards. It seems to have escaped you that your
role as a rarity committee member was to assess rare bird records and not
pass down judgement from on high on other observers.
Perhaps if the current IRBC would publicly or privately like to comment and
state where they stand in regard to Owen, things may move forward.
As for my mails (and Owen's) being aggressive don't start a fight and try
and blame the victim for standing up for themselves, you have had 5 years to
deal with it, surely you can understand growing frustration over your, and
other members/ former members cowardice?
Robert
Subject: Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
From: Joseph Doolan <joseph AT INDIGO.IE>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:15:16 +0100
Thanks Eoin, that's a surprise, unless the Puffin have gone nocturnal in
order to escape the Gebes (GBBG). As you saw for yourself, they will draw
blood from Humans and can Wolf down a Puffin as a quick snack! I think it's
our 4th Ganney colony.
Regards.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eoin C. Bairéad"
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
Hi
June - week 2 (2009) and week 4 (2010)
June - week 1 (2008) - a huge number of Greater Black Back chicks skulking
on the ground and severe aggression by parents - we saw one poor girl
bleeding profusely from head wounds. This year they were fledglings &
running around. The parents weren't nearly as troublesome.
by the way, Ireland's Eye is a spectacular gannetry close to, and easily
accessible from, a
Eoin
2010/8/22 Joseph Doolan
> Hi Eoin.
>
> What time of year?
>
> Regards.
>
> Joe
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eoin C. Bairéad"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> When we visited in 2009 we saw that - Puffins well into double figures..
> When we visited this year we saw none.
> But then again, last year, we got the weekend when the Peregrine fledged -
> 3
> fledglings still looking a little confused and two parents going ballistic
> over our heads. This year we saw no Peregrine, but I wasn't surprised at
> that.
> However, I was concerned at the lack of Puffin.
>
> Eoin
>
> 2010/8/22 Joseph Doolan
>
> Hi Eoin.
>>
>> I didn't visit the Island this year. Normally, 10-15 pairs nest there.
>> More
>> out on Lambay Island.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eoin C. Bairéad"
>> To:
>> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:39 PM
>> Subject: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> did Puffins breed on Ireland's Eye this summer?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Eoin
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Eoin C. Bairéad
>> Dublin, Ireland
>> Ãth Cliath, Éire
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Eoin C. Bairéad
> Dublin, Ireland
> Ãth Cliath, Éire
>
--
--
Eoin C. Bairéad
Dublin, Ireland
Ãth Cliath, Éire
Subject: Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
From: Eoin C. Bairéad <ebairead AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 19:06:56 +0100
Hi
June - week 2 (2009) and week 4 (2010)
June - week 1 (2008) - a huge number of Greater Black Back chicks skulking
on the ground and severe aggression by parents - we saw one poor girl
bleeding profusely from head wounds. This year they were fledglings &
running around. The parents weren't nearly as troublesome.
by the way, Ireland's Eye is a spectacular gannetry close to, and easily
accessible from, a
Eoin
2010/8/22 Joseph Doolan
> Hi Eoin.
>
> What time of year?
>
> Regards.
>
> Joe
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eoin C. Bairéad"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> When we visited in 2009 we saw that - Puffins well into double figures..
> When we visited this year we saw none.
> But then again, last year, we got the weekend when the Peregrine fledged -
> 3
> fledglings still looking a little confused and two parents going ballistic
> over our heads. This year we saw no Peregrine, but I wasn't surprised at
> that.
> However, I was concerned at the lack of Puffin.
>
> Eoin
>
> 2010/8/22 Joseph Doolan
>
> Hi Eoin.
>>
>> I didn't visit the Island this year. Normally, 10-15 pairs nest there.
>> More
>> out on Lambay Island.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eoin C. Bairéad"
>> To:
>> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:39 PM
>> Subject: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> did Puffins breed on Ireland's Eye this summer?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Eoin
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Eoin C. Bairéad
>> Dublin, Ireland
>> Ãth Cliath, Éire
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Eoin C. Bairéad
> Dublin, Ireland
> Ãth Cliath, Éire
>
--
--
Eoin C. Bairéad
Dublin, Ireland
Ãth Cliath, Éire
Subject: CHIMNEY SWIFT in August !!
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 13:58:33 EDT
News is just coming in of a CHIMNEY SWIFT being seen in COUNTY CORK, in
SOUTHWEST IRELAND, at Ballyadeen, near Castletownroche - a remarkable record
(1720-1808 hours at least).
Most of our previous Chimney Swifts in Britain and Ireland have occurred
much later in the autumn, primarily between mid October and mid November.
However, this is somewhat surprising when one considers that peak Chimney
Swift passage on the Eastern Seaboard is between mid August and 11 September,
with counts of over 1,500 birds in New York State at the end of August
Anyway, I had predicted Purple Martin to have arrived with this weather
system, but I certainly wasn't expecting Chimney Swift. The wonders of bird
migration and vagrancy........
Lee G R Evans
British Birding Association
UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and
Conservationist
Keep up with Lee's daily exploits on his DIARY PAGE at
http://thebirdingdiariesofleeevans.blogspot.com/
Discussion Forum/Email Group: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/)
Rare Bird Alerts:
_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/_
(http://groups.yaho
o.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/)
_http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/_
(http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/)
Email Address: LGREUK400 AT aol.com
Website Address: _www.uk400clubonline.co.uk_
(http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/)
Related Blog Sites: _http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/_
(http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/) _
http://rarebirdsinthewesternpalearctic.blogspot.com/http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/_
(http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/) _
http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/_
(http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/)
_http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/_ (http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/)
_http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/_
(http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/)
_http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/_
(http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/)
_http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/_
(http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/)
Chaffinch House
8 Sandycroft Road
Little Chalfont
Amersham
Buckinghamshire
England
HP6 6QL
Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157
Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629
(Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences
in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North
America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and
other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders)
Subject: MEGA: SHARP-TAILED SANDPIPER in East Yorkshire
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 12:55:42 EDT
An adult SHARP-TAILED SANDPIPER has been discovered this evening on the
high tide at Patrington Haven in East Yorkshire. Frustratingly, this is a
site where few rare waders are ever seen again, so the prospects tomorrow are
perhaps quite slim. The location lies between Hull and the Spurn peninsular
Best wishes
Lee
Subject: Re: News from Wales
From: Eugene ARCHER <wagtail AT FREE.FR>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:39:42 +0200
Hi Mark et al,
There has been a big movement of Aquatic Warblers since last weekend in
NW France culminating in a site record of 13 birds trapped today at
Donges (2 ad, 11 juvs) plus at least another 2 individuals that I saw in
the field en route to the nets that were un-ringed and gave superb views
perched on rush stems and short reeds. At one stage 3 birds were calling
from around me (today I described the call note as being a soft Blackcap
"tuc" with a somewhat whip-like quality) and they were apparently quite
happy to pose in the open with me in full view 10m away (luckily with
bins but without scope or camera) . . . a memorable morning indeed !
On the European section of Surfbirds Julien Gonin has posed some photos
of a bird he saw on the channel coast recently and the most striking
features such as the open-faced appearance, big supercillium, black
crown stripe, dark ear-coverts and black wedge on the back can all be
seen well which is exactly what I noted in the field today.
I would encourage Irish birders to get out there and spend a few hours
scanning the periphery of reedbeds in the first few hours of the morning
- this is the peak period for Aquatics and the presence of 2 in Wales
suggests some are well west of their normal migration corridor. They
really are a stunning bird and worth every effort :-)
All the best,
Eugene
On 19/08/2010 18:18, Mark Carmody wrote:
> news from Ceredigion in west Wales of 2(!) Aquatic Warblers over the last
> few days...time to start playing those tapes!
>
> http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery9
>
> Mark
>
>
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Web: http://birding44.free.fr/
Blog: http://birding44.free.fr/blog
Subject: Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
From: Joseph Doolan <joseph AT INDIGO.IE>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 14:29:15 +0100
Hi Eoin.
What time of year?
Regards.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eoin C. Bairéad"
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
Hi
When we visited in 2009 we saw that - Puffins well into double figures..
When we visited this year we saw none.
But then again, last year, we got the weekend when the Peregrine fledged - 3
fledglings still looking a little confused and two parents going ballistic
over our heads. This year we saw no Peregrine, but I wasn't surprised at
that.
However, I was concerned at the lack of Puffin.
Eoin
2010/8/22 Joseph Doolan
> Hi Eoin.
>
> I didn't visit the Island this year. Normally, 10-15 pairs nest there.
> More
> out on Lambay Island.
>
> Regards.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eoin C. Bairéad"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:39 PM
> Subject: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> did Puffins breed on Ireland's Eye this summer?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Eoin
>
> --
> --
> Eoin C. Bairéad
> Dublin, Ireland
> Ãth Cliath, Éire
>
--
--
Eoin C. Bairéad
Dublin, Ireland
Ãth Cliath, Éire
Subject: Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
From: Eoin C. Bairéad <ebairead AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 12:35:04 +0100
Hi
When we visited in 2009 we saw that - Puffins well into double figures..
When we visited this year we saw none.
But then again, last year, we got the weekend when the Peregrine fledged - 3
fledglings still looking a little confused and two parents going ballistic
over our heads. This year we saw no Peregrine, but I wasn't surprised at
that.
However, I was concerned at the lack of Puffin.
Eoin
2010/8/22 Joseph Doolan
> Hi Eoin.
>
> I didn't visit the Island this year. Normally, 10-15 pairs nest there. More
> out on Lambay Island.
>
> Regards.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eoin C. Bairéad"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:39 PM
> Subject: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> did Puffins breed on Ireland's Eye this summer?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Eoin
>
> --
> --
> Eoin C. Bairéad
> Dublin, Ireland
> Ãth Cliath, Éire
>
--
--
Eoin C. Bairéad
Dublin, Ireland
Ãth Cliath, Éire
Subject: Re: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
From: Joseph Doolan <joseph AT INDIGO.IE>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 12:26:14 +0100
Hi Eoin.
I didn't visit the Island this year. Normally, 10-15 pairs nest there. More
out on Lambay Island.
Regards.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eoin C. Bairéad"
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:39 PM
Subject: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
Hi
did Puffins breed on Ireland's Eye this summer?
Thanks.
Eoin
--
--
Eoin C. Bairéad
Dublin, Ireland
Ãth Cliath, Éire
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Patrick Lonergan <pat.lonergan AT UCD.IE>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 11:21:07 +0100
RobWe don’t know each other; I think we may have met in a crowd once or
twice. As a past member of the IRBC, I am one of those who penned the infamous
letter to Owen Foley. It has been IRBC policy not to discuss such matters on a
public forum like IBN, but as I am now ‘off’ the committee I guess I can say
something. The complete lack of response from anyone to your email of August
12th, culminating in your attempt to raise the issue again today, should
suggest to you that perhaps your views do not have the support of 98% of people
as you indicated. Could it be that perhaps you are in the minority? I think it
demonstrates clearly that most people do not care, and do not want to engage
with you on the subject, possibly because many of your posts have become as
inaccurate, aggressive and vitriolic as Owen’s. Despite what you may think, no
one took any pleasure in writing the letter to Owen. We had just introduced the
new method of recording, reflected in the monthly excel sheet that appears on
the IRBC website. Even the most cynical (or sceptical….John??) will admit that
this has been a major step forward in recording, with relatively few of the
rare birds being seen annually slipping through the net, compared to the case
prior to its establishment. Everything possible was and is done to ensure that
the list is as accurate and complete as possible. As you are aware, with many
species removed from the list requiring formal descriptions, the accuracy of
the list is dependent on the accuracy of the information provided and is, in
some cases, entirely open to being exploited. Observer integrity plays a key
role. As I am no longer on the IRBC, I do not pay as close attention to ‘the
list’ as I should, or used to. However, I was surprised at your assertion that
Michael (O’Keeffe) is deliberately omitting records from Owen. If memory serves
me right, Owen asked, or rather demanded, that his records not be included.
Perhaps he withdrew this request, I don’t remember. As you correctly point out,
the membership of the IRBC has almost completely changed since and it may be
that our successors will decide on a different course of action in the future;
that is their prerogative. Their primary objective, however, has not changed
i.e., to maintain as complete and accurate a list of the rare birds occurring
each year as possible. Your unerring support for Owen is admirable. Owen
clearly finds rare birds, as do most people who spend time in the field. The
problem seems to be the application of self-criticism. The subtitle of his blog
‘birding without standards’, while presumably tongue-in-cheek, sums it up
pretty well. Best wishes Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Vaughan
Date: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:19 am
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> John,
> It seems slightly contradictory that you would ask for a finders
> descriptionfor these birds so that you can assess them, while at
> the same time, point
> out that it is the role of the irbc and not yourself to do so.
> I would also think it odd that you twice refer to single
> observer records in
> your posting when this is not the case in either of these
> instances, both
> the madeiran and short tailed were seen by multiple observers.
> I would also suggest you buy the sound approach, petrels night
> and day, as
> you have made it quite clear in both the madeiran thread and the
> scopolisthread that you are not up to date with the latest
> information regarding
> such seabirds and therefore should be the last to comment.
>
> 'I do not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
> whoeverthey might be.' Strange that you would say that, and in
> the original mail
> state that you, like many people considered the madeiran and
> leaches petrel
> seen off Cape to be the same bird. So if not part of a group,
> who were you
> referring to with 'most people?'
>
> Having been at the "open forum" yourself back in 2006, I somehow
> doubt you
> kept your big mouth shut, when Owen and his sightings came up in
> "discussion". You have now seen what effect your dismissive
> emails have had
> on Ronan and his contribution to the IBN and he is not alone in
> who thought
> your mails were abusive. Even Mr O'Keefe thought your e-mail was
> dismissiveregarding the madeiran and not 'scientific scrutiny'.
>
> Perhaps now would be a good time to reiterate my questions to
> the IRBC.
> Seeing as they seem to have missed them, or are ignoring them.
>
> "Has the policy towards Owen's finds changed and the IRBC did
> not tell
> anyone?
> I notice that since Mike began compiling the IRBC provisional
> list, most of
> Owen's rarities have not been placed on the list. Yet I know for
> a fact that
> Mike receives this information from birders in Cork and the Cork
> birdingtwitter service. Is Mike/IRBC now trashing Owen's records
> before the report
> publishing stage? (not very provisional) or are they complying
> with Owen's
> request that his rarities be kept off the IRBC's books?
> (something that I am
> sure Owen would be just fine with). Or does this new version of
> the IRBC
> continue to uphold the policy put in place by their predecessors
> and if so?
> Why?
> Why does each member of the IRBC feel that this policy, which
> most people
> disagree with, should be upheld?''
>
> Kieran, Dermot, Dave Mcadams, Dave Suddaby, Mike, Dick, Joe,?
>
> Will you keep hiding or give a stance on where these issues stand?
>
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 8:29 PM, John Coveney Birds
> wrote:
> > Phil and perhaps others (I haven't had time to go back over
> exactly who
> > said
> > what),
> >
> > I am currently skeptical, in the scientific sense, of both the
> Madeiran> Petrel and the Short-tailed Shearwater claims, not
> because of who saw them,
> > but because the observers have, to my knowledge, put little or no
> > information in the public domain. That is, of course, their
> right but in my
> > opinion, however, it is then unreasonable if they or others
> are upset at
> > skeptical reactions - and it would appear to me that people
> are skeptical
> > about both records. In contrast, the reaction to this
> skepticism seems to
> > take it all as an attack on one of the observers of the
> Madeiran Petrel.
> > Personally, I would not claim such difficult to identify
> species with
> > little
> > or no corroborating evidence.
> >
> > I would contrast this approach with that of Paul Walsh in
> relation to his
> > recent posting about the possible Yelkouan Shearwater off
> Brownstown. At
> > least in that case, we can form opinions based on the
> available evidence -
> > it is not the role of the IBN to make decisions or judgments -
> that is the
> > job of the IRBC - for those that accept its role. It would be
> good to see
> > more discussion of Paul's bird from those with more expertise
> than me,
> > based on the details observed. Also, perhaps Lee would give us
> a summary of
> > the UK claims and the evidence supporting them.
> >
> > In my view, mega-rarity claims from seawatches and single
> observer sight
> > only situations will always be difficult to assess ever before the
> > "observer
> > factor" is considered - and just before anyone starts pounding their
> > keyboard, I'm not going there! There are many factors that can
> be discussed
> > objectively without flinging around dispersions or even
> nasturtiums such
> > as:- patterns of occurrence, or lack of; similarity to other
> species; the
> > current knowledge of the ID criteria; distance, light and
> other conditions
> > during the observation; and the amount of information obtained
> during the
> > observation - bearing in mind the previous point. If people
> take this
> > personally, all I can say is that, at least in relation to my
> > contributions,
> > it ain't so!
> >
> > To make a more general point, I think it is good to see more
> discussion of
> > sightings on IBN - it was a bit moribund in the spring. I for
> one don't
> > intend to let the circumstances of one particular dispute that
> I was not
> > involved in stop me making contributions (I would consider my
> previous> unofficial "moderating" input as peripheral to the
> dispute itself).
> > Furthermore, in posting my views, my intention is to open up
> skeptical and
> > even robust discussion on current observations - not on the
> observers nor
> > on
> > previous disputes.
> >
> > I would conclude by stressing that my opinions on the IBN are
> my own - I do
> > not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects",
> whoever they
> > might be - to misquote Groucho Marx, I don't care to belong to
> any club
> > that
> > people might put me in!
> >
> > John C
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On
> Behalf Of
> > Phil
> > Davis
> > Sent: 20 August 2010 07:45
> > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
> yesterday>
> > Hi Mark, I wasn't implying that you were dissing the record,
> the exact
> > opposite in fact. The point I was making was that none of the usual
> > suspects
> >
> > have been on rubbishing this bird, yet when Madeiran Petrel
> was claimed by
> > two excellent birders they were all over the record like a
> rash! I just
> > think its strange.
> > Phil
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Carmody"
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
> yesterday>
> >
> > > Phil, I'm not dissing the record...I hope it is one! It's
> made up mind to
> > > head to Galley this weekend. Haven't been seawatching this
> year yet and
> > am
> > > chomping at the bit now. I haven't seen a Cory's in a long
> time so that
> > > for
> > > me would be brilliant. Anything else would be a bonus ;)
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Phil Davis
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I'm so glad Owen didn't claim this (possible)bird, cos then
> we would
> > have
> > >> loads of mails dismissing it, instead of ,
> (rightly so in my opinion),
> > >> birders looking forward to the Autumn, cos they might see a
> Short Tailed
> > >> Shearwater, or Sooty or
> Balearic, or Madeiran Petrel or Dodo.
> > >> Jesus!!!!!! the hypocrisy..... is that spelt right? John
> Coveney, where
> > >> are
> > >> you when we need you?
> > >> Phil(must lay off the red wine)Davis.
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Keeffe" <
> > >> okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
> > >>
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:39 PM
> > >>
> > >> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
> Bridges yesterday
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Rick,
> > >>>
> > >>> My friend if Short-tailed falls in between Sooty and
> Balearic in
> > >>> appearance (closer to Sooty) it could be confusable with either
> > species.
> > >>> That's not the same as saying Sooty and Balearic are as similar.
> > >>>
> > >>> Mark,
> > >>>
> > >>> The Pacific birds you mention are all breeding in Northern
> Canada> >>> whereas
> > >>> Short-tailed breeds in Australia, thousands of miles
> further again as
> > >>> you
> > >>> know. Black-bellied/White-bellied Storm-petrels
> breed in the South
> > >>> Atlantic. No Short-tailed would a be truely
> exceptional record! Then
> > >>> again, Streaked Shearwater from the same area made it to
> Isreal in
> > >>> 1992/1993.
> > >>>
> > >>> From reading up on Short-tailed occurrances off the
> West Coast of
> > North
> > >>>>
> > >>> America they seem to be mainly 1st years. So one
> possible scenario
> > >>> would
> > >>> be that a bird which was born in Australia towards the end
> of last year
> > >>> has
> > >>> spent the last eight or nine months making its way accross
> the South
> > >>> Pacific
> > >>> into the Atlantic, perhaps meeting up with Sooty and Great
> Shears a few
> > >>> months ago and heading North with them to began its
> circuit north.
> > >>> Except
> > >>> this time it was up the east coast of the Americas
> (instead of East
> > >>> Asia)
> > >>> and finally around to the Irish coast. If one did it
> certainly would
> > be
> >
> > >>> a
> > >>> mighty job and it would raise the possibility of other
> species like
> > >>> Pink-footed or Buller's Shearwater doing likewise.
> On our Chilean trip
> > >>> last
> > >>> year we had both these species at 46 degrees south
> which is only a day
> > >>> or
> > >>> two's flight to Cape Horn for one of these guys (the
> Buller's was
> > >>> exceptional that far south but normal for Pink-footed).
> > >>>
> > >>> I cant wait to hear more about the sighting. It has
> certainly livened
> > >>> up
> > >>> the Autumn!
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards
> > >>>
> > >>> Mike
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>
> > >>>> From: "richard mundy"
> > >>>>
> > >>> To:
> > >>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:00 PM
> > >>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the
> Bridges yesterday
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> How can it be difficult to separate from Sooty and
> difficult to
> > >>> separate
> > >>>> from Balearic? That is tantamount to saying that Sooty is
> difficult to
> > >>>> separate from Balearic.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Rick
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Lee G R Evans
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Mike and others
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> This report came in from Tom Lowe, Dan Brown, Michael
> Hoit and one
> > >>>>> other
> > >>>>> whose name escapes me; described as a possible and not
> claimed as
> > >>>>> outright.
> > >>>>> There have been several claims of this species from
> Flamborough Head
> > >>>>> in
> > >>>>> East
> > >>>>> Yorkshire (same observer each time) but as others
> have already
> > >>>>> commented,
> > >>>>> very difficult to separate from both Sooty and Balearic
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Best wishes
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Lee
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > www.markcarmodyphotography.com
> > > My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
> > >
> >
> > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-
> Wilson/dp/1848890176> > )
> > > General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
> > >
> >
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Robert Vaughan <robertvaug AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 00:18:33 +0100
John,
It seems slightly contradictory that you would ask for a finders description
for these birds so that you can assess them, while at the same time, point
out that it is the role of the irbc and not yourself to do so.
I would also think it odd that you twice refer to single observer records in
your posting when this is not the case in either of these instances, both
the madeiran and short tailed were seen by multiple observers.
I would also suggest you buy the sound approach, petrels night and day, as
you have made it quite clear in both the madeiran thread and the scopolis
thread that you are not up to date with the latest information regarding
such seabirds and therefore should be the last to comment.
'I do not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects", whoever
they might be.' Strange that you would say that, and in the original mail
state that you, like many people considered the madeiran and leaches petrel
seen off Cape to be the same bird. So if not part of a group, who were you
referring to with 'most people?'
Having been at the "open forum" yourself back in 2006, I somehow doubt you
kept your big mouth shut, when Owen and his sightings came up in
"discussion". You have now seen what effect your dismissive emails have had
on Ronan and his contribution to the IBN and he is not alone in who thought
your mails were abusive. Even Mr O'Keefe thought your e-mail was dismissive
regarding the madeiran and not 'scientific scrutiny'.
Perhaps now would be a good time to reiterate my questions to the IRBC.
Seeing as they seem to have missed them, or are ignoring them.
"Has the policy towards Owen's finds changed and the IRBC did not tell
anyone?
I notice that since Mike began compiling the IRBC provisional list, most of
Owen's rarities have not been placed on the list. Yet I know for a fact that
Mike receives this information from birders in Cork and the Cork birding
twitter service. Is Mike/IRBC now trashing Owen's records before the report
publishing stage? (not very provisional) or are they complying with Owen's
request that his rarities be kept off the IRBC's books? (something that I am
sure Owen would be just fine with). Or does this new version of the IRBC
continue to uphold the policy put in place by their predecessors and if so?
Why?
Why does each member of the IRBC feel that this policy, which most people
disagree with, should be upheld?''
Kieran, Dermot, Dave Mcadams, Dave Suddaby, Mike, Dick, Joe,?
Will you keep hiding or give a stance on where these issues stand?
Rob
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 8:29 PM, John Coveney Birds wrote:
> Phil and perhaps others (I haven't had time to go back over exactly who
> said
> what),
>
> I am currently skeptical, in the scientific sense, of both the Madeiran
> Petrel and the Short-tailed Shearwater claims, not because of who saw them,
> but because the observers have, to my knowledge, put little or no
> information in the public domain. That is, of course, their right but in my
> opinion, however, it is then unreasonable if they or others are upset at
> skeptical reactions - and it would appear to me that people are skeptical
> about both records. In contrast, the reaction to this skepticism seems to
> take it all as an attack on one of the observers of the Madeiran Petrel.
> Personally, I would not claim such difficult to identify species with
> little
> or no corroborating evidence.
>
> I would contrast this approach with that of Paul Walsh in relation to his
> recent posting about the possible Yelkouan Shearwater off Brownstown. At
> least in that case, we can form opinions based on the available evidence -
> it is not the role of the IBN to make decisions or judgments - that is the
> job of the IRBC - for those that accept its role. It would be good to see
> more discussion of Paul's bird from those with more expertise than me,
> based on the details observed. Also, perhaps Lee would give us a summary of
> the UK claims and the evidence supporting them.
>
> In my view, mega-rarity claims from seawatches and single observer sight
> only situations will always be difficult to assess ever before the
> "observer
> factor" is considered - and just before anyone starts pounding their
> keyboard, I'm not going there! There are many factors that can be discussed
> objectively without flinging around dispersions or even nasturtiums such
> as:- patterns of occurrence, or lack of; similarity to other species; the
> current knowledge of the ID criteria; distance, light and other conditions
> during the observation; and the amount of information obtained during the
> observation - bearing in mind the previous point. If people take this
> personally, all I can say is that, at least in relation to my
> contributions,
> it ain't so!
>
> To make a more general point, I think it is good to see more discussion of
> sightings on IBN - it was a bit moribund in the spring. I for one don't
> intend to let the circumstances of one particular dispute that I was not
> involved in stop me making contributions (I would consider my previous
> unofficial "moderating" input as peripheral to the dispute itself).
> Furthermore, in posting my views, my intention is to open up skeptical and
> even robust discussion on current observations - not on the observers nor
> on
> previous disputes.
>
> I would conclude by stressing that my opinions on the IBN are my own - I do
> not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects", whoever they
> might be - to misquote Groucho Marx, I don't care to belong to any club
> that
> people might put me in!
>
> John C
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
> Phil
> Davis
> Sent: 20 August 2010 07:45
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>
> Hi Mark, I wasn't implying that you were dissing the record, the exact
> opposite in fact. The point I was making was that none of the usual
> suspects
>
> have been on rubbishing this bird, yet when Madeiran Petrel was claimed by
> two excellent birders they were all over the record like a rash! I just
> think its strange.
> Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Carmody"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>
>
> > Phil, I'm not dissing the record...I hope it is one! It's made up mind to
> > head to Galley this weekend. Haven't been seawatching this year yet and
> am
> > chomping at the bit now. I haven't seen a Cory's in a long time so that
> > for
> > me would be brilliant. Anything else would be a bonus ;)
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Phil Davis wrote:
> >
> >> I'm so glad Owen didn't claim this (possible)bird, cos then we would
> have
> >> loads of mails dismissing it, instead of , (rightly so in my opinion),
> >> birders looking forward to the Autumn, cos they might see a Short Tailed
> >> Shearwater, or Sooty or Balearic, or Madeiran Petrel or Dodo.
> >> Jesus!!!!!! the hypocrisy..... is that spelt right? John Coveney, where
> >> are
> >> you when we need you?
> >> Phil(must lay off the red wine)Davis.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Keeffe" <
> >> okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
> >>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:39 PM
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
> >>
> >>
> >> Rick,
> >>>
> >>> My friend if Short-tailed falls in between Sooty and Balearic in
> >>> appearance (closer to Sooty) it could be confusable with either
> species.
> >>> That's not the same as saying Sooty and Balearic are as similar.
> >>>
> >>> Mark,
> >>>
> >>> The Pacific birds you mention are all breeding in Northern Canada
> >>> whereas
> >>> Short-tailed breeds in Australia, thousands of miles further again as
> >>> you
> >>> know. Black-bellied/White-bellied Storm-petrels breed in the South
> >>> Atlantic. No Short-tailed would a be truely exceptional record! Then
> >>> again, Streaked Shearwater from the same area made it to Isreal in
> >>> 1992/1993.
> >>>
> >>> From reading up on Short-tailed occurrances off the West Coast of
> North
> >>>>
> >>> America they seem to be mainly 1st years. So one possible scenario
> >>> would
> >>> be that a bird which was born in Australia towards the end of last year
> >>> has
> >>> spent the last eight or nine months making its way accross the South
> >>> Pacific
> >>> into the Atlantic, perhaps meeting up with Sooty and Great Shears a few
> >>> months ago and heading North with them to began its circuit north.
> >>> Except
> >>> this time it was up the east coast of the Americas (instead of East
> >>> Asia)
> >>> and finally around to the Irish coast. If one did it certainly would
> be
>
> >>> a
> >>> mighty job and it would raise the possibility of other species like
> >>> Pink-footed or Buller's Shearwater doing likewise. On our Chilean trip
> >>> last
> >>> year we had both these species at 46 degrees south which is only a day
> >>> or
> >>> two's flight to Cape Horn for one of these guys (the Buller's was
> >>> exceptional that far south but normal for Pink-footed).
> >>>
> >>> I cant wait to hear more about the sighting. It has certainly livened
> >>> up
> >>> the Autumn!
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>
> >>>> From: "richard mundy"
> >>>>
> >>> To:
> >>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:00 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> How can it be difficult to separate from Sooty and difficult to
> >>> separate
> >>>> from Balearic? That is tantamount to saying that Sooty is difficult to
> >>>> separate from Balearic.
> >>>>
> >>>> Rick
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Lee G R Evans
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike and others
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This report came in from Tom Lowe, Dan Brown, Michael Hoit and one
> >>>>> other
> >>>>> whose name escapes me; described as a possible and not claimed as
> >>>>> outright.
> >>>>> There have been several claims of this species from Flamborough Head
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> East
> >>>>> Yorkshire (same observer each time) but as others have already
> >>>>> commented,
> >>>>> very difficult to separate from both Sooty and Balearic
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best wishes
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lee
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> > --
> > www.markcarmodyphotography.com
> > My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
> >
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-Wilson/dp/1848890176
> > )
> > General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
> >
>
Subject: Puffins on Ireland's Eye
From: Eoin C. Bairéad <ebairead AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 23:39:53 +0100
Hi
did Puffins breed on Ireland's Eye this summer?
Thanks.
Eoin
--
--
Eoin C. Bairéad
Dublin, Ireland
Ãth Cliath, Éire
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Ronan McLaughlin <Rpmclaughlin AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 23:30:10 +0100
John et al,
Subsequent to the sighting off galley head, I was about to
post a full and detailed account of the event. However,
considering the record was rubbished before I got my
opportunity to have my say, I decided not to post my
account in the public domain.
I have and will continue to enjoy the more cordial Id
discussions that have occurred and will occur on this forum
in the future, but I will not be drawn into a slagging match
about this sighting or any other for that matter.
Regards
Ronan
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 17:01:29 EDT
John C
The putative Short-tailed Shearwater (and remember it was only a possible)
was seen by Tom Lowe and Dan Brown, as well as by Keith Langdon and Michael
Hoit. I have birded with Tom Lowe on numerous occasions and we have
visited far-distant climes together, and I can tell you that he is an excellent
and very careful observer and is a frequent visitor to Bridges in early
autumn. In fact, as I write, the crew is still there (or about to head down to
Galley Head), and as far as I know never get involved in internet
interaction, although Tom DOES submit records to the IRBC.
An odd Sooty-type shearwater was seen by them, with a peculiar fluttering
flight, but as far as I know they are not claiming anything definite.
As for Yelkouan Shearwater identification, I saw two of these on seawatches
off West Cornwall last autumn and I believe that they are an annual
visitor to our shores in small numbers (I know that Chris Heard has seen at
least
one off the Bridges of Ross). The problem is - is that they appear to be
birds from the Minorcan population and are migrating with Balearic
Shearwaters. They are not identical to birds that you see in the Eastern Med,
such
as in Turkey or Corsica, but a variation on a theme. Much study is ongoing
on this newly described population, including satellite-tracking, but they
are similar to Balearic Shearwaters with a somewhat smudgy brown complexion
to the upperparts but sullied white below to the undertail-coverts, quite
brown on the flanks. They are a smaller bird than Balearic, with a darker
brown outer hand of the upperwing and a noticeable contrast on the underwing,
with dark on the axillaries and white on the underwing (Balearics often
appearing very uniform dark on the underwing).
From observations off Porthgwarra and off Menorca, it appears that Menorcan
Shearwater is as variable as Balearic Shearwater, which poses a further
identification problem, and there is the further complication of age-related
differences (many Balearic Shearwaters passing Porthgwarra can show a
striking underwing contrast, suggesting immaturity)
The Sound Approach team have done some extremely important work on Menorcan
Shearwater with both Arnoud and Magnus obtaining sound recordings and
photographs at the breeding burrows (see Petrels Night and Day, pages 148-156).
This is also a superb publication dealing with the identification of the
North Atlantic shearwaters and petrels.
Best wishes
Lee
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: John Coveney Birds <birds AT ECOVENEY.IE>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 20:29:44 +0100
Phil and perhaps others (I haven't had time to go back over exactly who said
what),
I am currently skeptical, in the scientific sense, of both the Madeiran
Petrel and the Short-tailed Shearwater claims, not because of who saw them,
but because the observers have, to my knowledge, put little or no
information in the public domain. That is, of course, their right but in my
opinion, however, it is then unreasonable if they or others are upset at
skeptical reactions - and it would appear to me that people are skeptical
about both records. In contrast, the reaction to this skepticism seems to
take it all as an attack on one of the observers of the Madeiran Petrel.
Personally, I would not claim such difficult to identify species with little
or no corroborating evidence.
I would contrast this approach with that of Paul Walsh in relation to his
recent posting about the possible Yelkouan Shearwater off Brownstown. At
least in that case, we can form opinions based on the available evidence -
it is not the role of the IBN to make decisions or judgments - that is the
job of the IRBC - for those that accept its role. It would be good to see
more discussion of Paul's bird from those with more expertise than me,
based on the details observed. Also, perhaps Lee would give us a summary of
the UK claims and the evidence supporting them.
In my view, mega-rarity claims from seawatches and single observer sight
only situations will always be difficult to assess ever before the "observer
factor" is considered - and just before anyone starts pounding their
keyboard, I'm not going there! There are many factors that can be discussed
objectively without flinging around dispersions or even nasturtiums such
as:- patterns of occurrence, or lack of; similarity to other species; the
current knowledge of the ID criteria; distance, light and other conditions
during the observation; and the amount of information obtained during the
observation - bearing in mind the previous point. If people take this
personally, all I can say is that, at least in relation to my contributions,
it ain't so!
To make a more general point, I think it is good to see more discussion of
sightings on IBN - it was a bit moribund in the spring. I for one don't
intend to let the circumstances of one particular dispute that I was not
involved in stop me making contributions (I would consider my previous
unofficial "moderating" input as peripheral to the dispute itself).
Furthermore, in posting my views, my intention is to open up skeptical and
even robust discussion on current observations - not on the observers nor on
previous disputes.
I would conclude by stressing that my opinions on the IBN are my own - I do
not consider myself part of any group of "usual suspects", whoever they
might be - to misquote Groucho Marx, I don't care to belong to any club that
people might put me in!
John C
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Phil
Davis
Sent: 20 August 2010 07:45
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
Hi Mark, I wasn't implying that you were dissing the record, the exact
opposite in fact. The point I was making was that none of the usual suspects
have been on rubbishing this bird, yet when Madeiran Petrel was claimed by
two excellent birders they were all over the record like a rash! I just
think its strange.
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Carmody"
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
> Phil, I'm not dissing the record...I hope it is one! It's made up mind to
> head to Galley this weekend. Haven't been seawatching this year yet and am
> chomping at the bit now. I haven't seen a Cory's in a long time so that
> for
> me would be brilliant. Anything else would be a bonus ;)
>
> Mark
>
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Phil Davis wrote:
>
>> I'm so glad Owen didn't claim this (possible)bird, cos then we would have
>> loads of mails dismissing it, instead of , (rightly so in my opinion),
>> birders looking forward to the Autumn, cos they might see a Short Tailed
>> Shearwater, or Sooty or Balearic, or Madeiran Petrel or Dodo.
>> Jesus!!!!!! the hypocrisy..... is that spelt right? John Coveney, where
>> are
>> you when we need you?
>> Phil(must lay off the red wine)Davis.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Keeffe" <
>> okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
>>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:39 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>
>>
>> Rick,
>>>
>>> My friend if Short-tailed falls in between Sooty and Balearic in
>>> appearance (closer to Sooty) it could be confusable with either species.
>>> That's not the same as saying Sooty and Balearic are as similar.
>>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> The Pacific birds you mention are all breeding in Northern Canada
>>> whereas
>>> Short-tailed breeds in Australia, thousands of miles further again as
>>> you
>>> know. Black-bellied/White-bellied Storm-petrels breed in the South
>>> Atlantic. No Short-tailed would a be truely exceptional record! Then
>>> again, Streaked Shearwater from the same area made it to Isreal in
>>> 1992/1993.
>>>
>>> From reading up on Short-tailed occurrances off the West Coast of North
>>>>
>>> America they seem to be mainly 1st years. So one possible scenario
>>> would
>>> be that a bird which was born in Australia towards the end of last year
>>> has
>>> spent the last eight or nine months making its way accross the South
>>> Pacific
>>> into the Atlantic, perhaps meeting up with Sooty and Great Shears a few
>>> months ago and heading North with them to began its circuit north.
>>> Except
>>> this time it was up the east coast of the Americas (instead of East
>>> Asia)
>>> and finally around to the Irish coast. If one did it certainly would be
>>> a
>>> mighty job and it would raise the possibility of other species like
>>> Pink-footed or Buller's Shearwater doing likewise. On our Chilean trip
>>> last
>>> year we had both these species at 46 degrees south which is only a day
>>> or
>>> two's flight to Cape Horn for one of these guys (the Buller's was
>>> exceptional that far south but normal for Pink-footed).
>>>
>>> I cant wait to hear more about the sighting. It has certainly livened
>>> up
>>> the Autumn!
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>>> From: "richard mundy"
>>>>
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>>
>>>
>>> How can it be difficult to separate from Sooty and difficult to
>>> separate
>>>> from Balearic? That is tantamount to saying that Sooty is difficult to
>>>> separate from Balearic.
>>>>
>>>> Rick
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Lee G R Evans
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Mike and others
>>>>>
>>>>> This report came in from Tom Lowe, Dan Brown, Michael Hoit and one
>>>>> other
>>>>> whose name escapes me; described as a possible and not claimed as
>>>>> outright.
>>>>> There have been several claims of this species from Flamborough Head
>>>>> in
>>>>> East
>>>>> Yorkshire (same observer each time) but as others have already
>>>>> commented,
>>>>> very difficult to separate from both Sooty and Balearic
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> www.markcarmodyphotography.com
> My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
>
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-Wilson/dp/1848890176
> )
> General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
>
Subject: Re: Irish passport holder caught smuggling Peregrine eggs
From: John Gallagher <galjohn AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 23:58:03 +0100
BBC Radio 4 had a great programme last night about the secretive world of
the egg collectors. It described the quite unbelievable lengths some of them
are prepared to go for the eggs of rarities. A guy from the RSPB was
describing the feeling of walking into a lock-up garage or back room and
seeing all the neatly labelled Red-Backed Shrike clutches and being hit by
the realisation that this represents the stolen future of the species in
Britain.
2010/8/19 Mícheál Casey
> Hi all,
>
> This news article, on a lot of news sites today, really hammers home the
> need for vigilance against egg-collectors, and sensible discretion about
> potential breeding sites, however inaccessible they seem. This gent was
> previously filmed in Canada abseiling into a tree nest from a helicopter.
>
> Mícheál
>
>
> Rare Eggs Trafficker Jailed For 30 Months
> A Zimbabwean man who tried to smuggle rare eggs worth £70,000 out of the
> country has been jailed for 30 months.
> Skip related content
> RELATED PHOTOS / VIDEOS
> Jeffrey Lendrum, 48, from Towcester, Northamptonshire, was caught with 14
> peregrine falcon eggs placed in socks taped to his torso.
> He has a history of egg trafficking in Zimbabwe and Canada, where he was
> filmed abseiling from a helicopter to steal rare eggs from the top of a
> tree.
> Lendrum, who also holds an Irish passport, was found guilty of taking 14
> eggs from a nest in South Wales and attempting to export such rare bounty
> without a permit.
> He was arrested by officers as he sat in the Emirates departure lounge at
> Birmingham International Airport on May 3.
> Officers from the West Midlands Counter Terrorism Unit found the falcon
> eggs tied in to socks and bandaged to his abdomen.
> Bred in captivity, the eggs can be bought for around £1,500 each but gain a
> far higher value once hatched.
> Lendrum pleaded guilty at Warwick Crown Court on Wednesday.
> Eleven of the 14 eggs have been successfully incubated and eight chicks
> have already been reintegrated to nesting sites around the UK.
> The remaining chicks are currently in a wild release programme.
>
>
>
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100819/tuk-rare-eggs-trafficker-jailed-for-30-m-45dbed5.html
Subject: As weekend approaches, LESSER GREY bales out
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:48:46 EDT
After putting on a good show for most of the week, the adult male LESSER
GREY SHRIKE was nowhere to be found today in the Kelling Hard vicinity of
North Norfolk, denying many an opportunity to see this handsome eastern
vagrant this coming weekend. In fact, the region had little to offer today,
other
than the long-staying adult COMMON CRANE at Cley and a scattering of
passage waders, including juvenile Little Stints and both Curlew and Wood
Sandpiper.
The record-breaking juvenile WHISKERED TERN continues to linger in
Cleveland at Saltholme Pools RSPB, whilst a juvenile WHITE-WINGED BLACK TERN
spent
a second day at Hickling Broad (Norfolk). A wave of predominantly juvenile
BLACK TERNS also swept across the southern half of Britain this afternoon.
In North Lincolnshire, a worn adult 'peep' indicative of SEMIPALMATED
SANDPIPER continues at Alkborough Flats, being seen several times today but
mainly at long range, whilst two PECTORAL SANDPIPERS arrived at the scrape at
Low Newton (Northumberland) this afternoon. Large numbers of WOOD SANDPIPERS
were also scattered around today, along with the first thrust of juvenile
LITTLE STINTS and juvenile SPOTTED REDSHANKS.
SPOTTED CRAKES on offer include the showy bird at Shibdon Pond, Blaydon
(County Durham) (favouring the muddy bay in the NE corner) and the 1-2 at
Grove Ferry NNR (Kent) (from the David Feast Hide).
At Dungeness (Kent), an adult PURPLE HERON remains on Denge Marsh, along
with the CATTLE EGRET and GREAT WHITE EGRET, with a further juvenile CATTLE
EGRET still in Essex and roosting this evening at Wat Tyler Country Park.
Drift migrants such as BARRED WARBLER have been appearing since last
weekend, with two on the Farne Islands (Northumberland) and another on North
Ronaldsay (Orkney), with a juvenile RED-BACKED SHRIKE at Saltburn (Cleveland)
with the only WRYNECK today at Beacon Lane, Kilnsea (East Yorks). Generally
speaking, there has been a major arrival inland of Common Redstart,
Whinchat and Spotted Flycatcher, spiced up by the occasional Pied Flycatcher
and
Wood Warbler.
After the SYKES'S BOOTED WARBLER on Unst (Shetland) earlier in the week
(see Dougie Preston's outstanding images above), Scotland has quietened down
since, with the 4 adult drake SURF SCOTERS off Blackdog Beach
(Aberdeenshire) and the COMMON CRANE at Montrose Basin (Angus/Dundee)
highlighting today,
as well as the continuing PECTORAL SANDPIPER on Carden Flood at Vane Farm
RSPB (Perth & Kinross).and the eclipse drake RING-NECKED DUCK there.
GREAT SHEARWATER passage has also been experienced in West Cornwall today
with 1-3 seen (Porthgwarra and Lizard Point) and another 2 off Start Point
(South Devon).
Seawatching in western Ireland today yielded a WILSON'S STORM PETREL and 2
GREAT SHEARWATERS off Galley Head (County Cork), the latter species also
passing the Bridges of Ross (County Clare), along with 2 adult SABINE'S
GULLS, as well as off Cape Clear (County Cork)
Lee G R Evans
British Birding Association
UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and
Conservationist
Keep up with Lee's daily exploits on his DIARY PAGE at
http://thebirdingdiariesofleeevans.blogspot.com/
Discussion Forum/Email Group: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/)
Rare Bird Alerts:
_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/)
_http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/_
(http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.com/)
Email Address: LGREUK400 AT aol.com
Website Address: _www.uk400clubonline.co.uk_
(http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/)
Related Blog Sites: _http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/_
(http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/) _
http://rarebirdsinthewesternpalearctic.blogspot.com/http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/_
(http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/) _
http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/_
(http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/)
_http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/_ (http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/)
_http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/_
(http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/)
_http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/_
(http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/)
_http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/_
(http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/)
Chaffinch House
8 Sandycroft Road
Little Chalfont
Amersham
Buckinghamshire
England
HP6 6QL
Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157
Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629
(Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences
in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North
America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and
other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders)
Subject: Seatrack - August Update
From: Noel Keogh <noeljkeogh AT YAHOO.IE>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:46:49 +0000
Please see below for an update on the Seatrack project by Niall Keogh.
Regards,
Noel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
First of all a quick reminder that the second Target Weekend of the month will
be taking place this weekend, Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd. The weather looks
slightly better for passage than in previous weeks, particularly for the South
West, with a Wilson’s Petrel & some Great Shearwaters having already been
seen
today off Galley Head! And now onto the updates...
Seatrack off to a flying start:
As of today, 30 observers have signed up to watch from 18 sites around the
country which is a very encouraging start to the project. Overall,
approximately
55 sightings of Balearic Shearwaters totalling c.140 birds have been reported
to
Irish bird news services & websites so far this summer/autumn. Preliminary
results suggest that although Balearic Shearwaters have been recorded right
around the coast from St. John’s Point, Co. Down to Kilcummin Head, Co. Mayo
the
majority of feeding activity seems to be concentrated along the Eastern half of
the country between Brownstown Head, Co. Waterford & Balbriggan, Co. Dublin
where multiple birds can often be found feeding amongst rafts of Manx
Shearwaters. It is now possible to see Balearic Shearwaters feeding in Dublin
Bay from the Poolbeg which is only a short distance from Dublin City Centre!
Seatrack & weather:
A number of observers have expressed their concerns relating to the recent calm
weather conditions resulting in a small number of shearwaters being recorded on
Target Weekends. Whilst it would seem desirable to conduct a ‘Dedicated
Watch’
on days when the weather is favourable (i.e. with strong winds & rain), it is
important that observers continue to conduct a ‘Dedicated Watch’ on Target
Weekends regardless of weather conditions. By doing so we will be able to
pinpoint what areas are of most benefit to the shearwaters under ‘normal’
conditions (i.e. for FEEDING, ROOSTING etc.) and thus allowing us to assess
which areas are of greatest conservation value. If ‘good’ seawatching
conditions
prevail on Target Weekends then your records will allow us to track MOVEMENT of
these birds between sites which is just as important.
Seatrack outside of Ireland:
The Seatrack project has not only been receiving a great deal of interest
within
Ireland but also from across the Irish Sea. It is with great pleasure that we
will be receiving records from John Armitage based on Isaly & Colin Butters
based on Strumble Head. Their observations will help to create a clearer
picture
of the movements of seabirds in the Irish Sea & along the coast of Northern
Ireland. If any other UK seawatchers based along the west coast (particularly
along the Irish Sea) wish to take part then by all means get in touch!
Furthermore we would encourage any UK or European birders visiting Ireland this
autumn to submit their records to the Seatrack project.
Exceptional counts of Balearic Shearwaters in the North East Atlantic:
The 18th of July saw a movement of 1,120 Balearic Shearwaters heading East past
Lannion in Northern France which must have been a fantastic sight indeed.
Following on from this, a massive raft of 4,630 birds was filmed by Laurent
Thebault in the Bay of Lannion on 30th July (See
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00cLc1D2WFE for a video). It seems that the more
adventurous contingent of these birds made their way north with a total of 502
passing the SeaWatch SW watchpoint at Gwennap Head, Cornwall between 15th &
31st
July (www.seawatch-sw.org). Record day counts of 229 passing St. Ives & 160
passing Gwennap Head were then recorded on 6th August followed by the Irish
record day count of c.41 birds off Carnsore Point, Co. Wexford on 8th August
during a Seatrack Target Weekend watch undertaken by Niall & Noel Keogh.
Further
evidence of the northward migration of Balearic Shearwaters was noted on 16th
August when a massive feeding flock of 50,000+ Manx Shearwaters containing 15+
Balearic Shearwaters was filmed in Borth Bay, Ceredigion, Wales by Marc Hughes
(See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbJK_3kUlWY for a video).
It is apparent that larger and larger groups of Balearic Shearwaters are
venturing further north each year and it is hoped that the Seatrack project
will
be able to monitor & follow this movement around the Irish coast. It is
possible
that some of these birds will start to make their way west in the coming weeks
which some previous high Irish day counts off Galley Head, Co. Cork seem to
suggest (15 on 8th Sept 2009 & 25 on 1st Sept 2006).
‘Yelkouan-type’ Shearwater off Waterford:
Given the increase in Balearic Shearwaters off the South East coast of Ireland
lately & the recent spate of ‘Yelkouan-type’ Shearwater records from
Cornwall,
it was no surprise that a ‘Yelkouan-type’ Shearwater would eventually turn
up
off the Irish coast. The honour of finding one such bird fell to Paul Walsh &
Mary Duggan who spotted a bird resembling this taxon amongst a feeding raft of
Manx Shearwaters from Brownstown Head on the evening of 14th August (See
http://www.waterfordbirds.com/yelkouan.html for more info). It is highly likely
that more of these birds will be recorded in due time, probably somewhere
between Galley Head & Carnsore Point, so keep your eyes peeled!
Whale Watch 2010:
This Sunday sees the annual All Ireland Whale Watch Day event run by the Irish
Whale & Dolphin Group taking place on 15 headlands along the coast (See
http://www.iwdg.ie/article.asp?id=2312 for more info). We would encourage
Seatrack observers to submit any sightings of cetaceans this weekend to
http://www.iwdg.ie/iscope/sightings/report.asp?id=46
Finally I would like to say best of luck to you all this weekend! I’ll be on
The
Bridges of Ross, Co. Clare from Sunday for 9 days so hopefully I’ll manage to
pull something decent out of the bag (preferably something with a 2.5m
wingspan!).
The next update will be posted on 31st August before the Target Weekend of 4th
&
5th Sept.
Good Seatracking,
Niall Keogh
e-mail: seawatch AT birdwatchireland.ie
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Phil Davis <phildavis AT IOL.IE>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 09:38:14 +0100
Thanks Mark, will you keep it in a bottle til I get there? Just heard the
lads also had a Wilsons
Phil.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Carmody"
To:
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
> The boys on Galley had a good haul this morning. Over 100 Stormies, 2
> Great
> Shears, 10 Sooty Shears, 8 Bonxie and an Arctic Skua between 6.45 to
> 8.45am.
>
> Phil, I'll find ya a White-faced Stormie tomorrow ;)
>
> Mark
>
> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 7:45 AM, Phil Davis wrote:
>
>> Hi Mark, I wasn't implying that you were dissing the record, the exact
>> opposite in fact. The point I was making was that none of the usual
>> suspects
>> have been on rubbishing this bird, yet when Madeiran Petrel was claimed
>> by
>> two excellent birders they were all over the record like a rash! I just
>> think its strange.
>> Phil
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Carmody"
>>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:09 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>
>>
>> Phil, I'm not dissing the record...I hope it is one! It's made up mind
>> to
>>> head to Galley this weekend. Haven't been seawatching this year yet and
>>> am
>>> chomping at the bit now. I haven't seen a Cory's in a long time so that
>>> for
>>> me would be brilliant. Anything else would be a bonus ;)
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Phil Davis wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm so glad Owen didn't claim this (possible)bird, cos then we would
>>> have
>>>> loads of mails dismissing it, instead of , (rightly so in my
>>>> opinion),
>>>> birders looking forward to the Autumn, cos they might see a Short
>>>> Tailed
>>>> Shearwater, or Sooty or Balearic, or Madeiran Petrel or Dodo.
>>>> Jesus!!!!!! the hypocrisy..... is that spelt right? John Coveney, where
>>>> are
>>>> you when we need you?
>>>> Phil(must lay off the red wine)Davis.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Keeffe" <
>>>> okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
>>>>
>>>> To:
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:39 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rick,
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My friend if Short-tailed falls in between Sooty and Balearic in
>>>>> appearance (closer to Sooty) it could be confusable with either
>>>>> species.
>>>>> That's not the same as saying Sooty and Balearic are as similar.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark,
>>>>>
>>>>> The Pacific birds you mention are all breeding in Northern Canada
>>>>> whereas
>>>>> Short-tailed breeds in Australia, thousands of miles further again as
>>>>> you
>>>>> know. Black-bellied/White-bellied Storm-petrels breed in the South
>>>>> Atlantic. No Short-tailed would a be truely exceptional record! Then
>>>>> again, Streaked Shearwater from the same area made it to Isreal in
>>>>> 1992/1993.
>>>>>
>>>>> From reading up on Short-tailed occurrances off the West Coast of
>>>>> North
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> America they seem to be mainly 1st years. So one possible scenario
>>>>> would
>>>>> be that a bird which was born in Australia towards the end of last
>>>>> year
>>>>> has
>>>>> spent the last eight or nine months making its way accross the South
>>>>> Pacific
>>>>> into the Atlantic, perhaps meeting up with Sooty and Great Shears a
>>>>> few
>>>>> months ago and heading North with them to began its circuit north.
>>>>> Except
>>>>> this time it was up the east coast of the Americas (instead of East
>>>>> Asia)
>>>>> and finally around to the Irish coast. If one did it certainly would
>>>>> be
>>>>> a
>>>>> mighty job and it would raise the possibility of other species like
>>>>> Pink-footed or Buller's Shearwater doing likewise. On our Chilean
>>>>> trip
>>>>> last
>>>>> year we had both these species at 46 degrees south which is only a
>>>>> day
>>>>> or
>>>>> two's flight to Cape Horn for one of these guys (the Buller's was
>>>>> exceptional that far south but normal for Pink-footed).
>>>>>
>>>>> I cant wait to hear more about the sighting. It has certainly livened
>>>>> up
>>>>> the Autumn!
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>
>>>>> From: "richard mundy"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To:
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges
>>>>> yesterday
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How can it be difficult to separate from Sooty and difficult to
>>>>> separate
>>>>>
>>>>>> from Balearic? That is tantamount to saying that Sooty is difficult
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> separate from Balearic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Lee G R Evans
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike and others
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This report came in from Tom Lowe, Dan Brown, Michael Hoit and one
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> whose name escapes me; described as a possible and not claimed as
>>>>>>> outright.
>>>>>>> There have been several claims of this species from Flamborough Head
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> East
>>>>>>> Yorkshire (same observer each time) but as others have already
>>>>>>> commented,
>>>>>>> very difficult to separate from both Sooty and Balearic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best wishes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.markcarmodyphotography.com
>>> My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
>>>
>>>
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-Wilson/dp/1848890176
>>> )
>>> General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> www.markcarmodyphotography.com
> My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-Wilson/dp/1848890176
> )
> General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
>
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Mark Carmody <dr.carmo AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 09:17:18 +0100
The boys on Galley had a good haul this morning. Over 100 Stormies, 2 Great
Shears, 10 Sooty Shears, 8 Bonxie and an Arctic Skua between 6.45 to
8.45am.
Phil, I'll find ya a White-faced Stormie tomorrow ;)
Mark
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 7:45 AM, Phil Davis wrote:
> Hi Mark, I wasn't implying that you were dissing the record, the exact
> opposite in fact. The point I was making was that none of the usual suspects
> have been on rubbishing this bird, yet when Madeiran Petrel was claimed by
> two excellent birders they were all over the record like a rash! I just
> think its strange.
> Phil
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Carmody"
>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:09 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>
>
> Phil, I'm not dissing the record...I hope it is one! It's made up mind to
>> head to Galley this weekend. Haven't been seawatching this year yet and am
>> chomping at the bit now. I haven't seen a Cory's in a long time so that
>> for
>> me would be brilliant. Anything else would be a bonus ;)
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Phil Davis wrote:
>>
>> I'm so glad Owen didn't claim this (possible)bird, cos then we would have
>>> loads of mails dismissing it, instead of , (rightly so in my opinion),
>>> birders looking forward to the Autumn, cos they might see a Short Tailed
>>> Shearwater, or Sooty or Balearic, or Madeiran Petrel or Dodo.
>>> Jesus!!!!!! the hypocrisy..... is that spelt right? John Coveney, where
>>> are
>>> you when we need you?
>>> Phil(must lay off the red wine)Davis.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Keeffe" <
>>> okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
>>>
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:39 PM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick,
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My friend if Short-tailed falls in between Sooty and Balearic in
>>>> appearance (closer to Sooty) it could be confusable with either species.
>>>> That's not the same as saying Sooty and Balearic are as similar.
>>>>
>>>> Mark,
>>>>
>>>> The Pacific birds you mention are all breeding in Northern Canada
>>>> whereas
>>>> Short-tailed breeds in Australia, thousands of miles further again as
>>>> you
>>>> know. Black-bellied/White-bellied Storm-petrels breed in the South
>>>> Atlantic. No Short-tailed would a be truely exceptional record! Then
>>>> again, Streaked Shearwater from the same area made it to Isreal in
>>>> 1992/1993.
>>>>
>>>> From reading up on Short-tailed occurrances off the West Coast of North
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> America they seem to be mainly 1st years. So one possible scenario
>>>> would
>>>> be that a bird which was born in Australia towards the end of last year
>>>> has
>>>> spent the last eight or nine months making its way accross the South
>>>> Pacific
>>>> into the Atlantic, perhaps meeting up with Sooty and Great Shears a few
>>>> months ago and heading North with them to began its circuit north.
>>>> Except
>>>> this time it was up the east coast of the Americas (instead of East
>>>> Asia)
>>>> and finally around to the Irish coast. If one did it certainly would be
>>>> a
>>>> mighty job and it would raise the possibility of other species like
>>>> Pink-footed or Buller's Shearwater doing likewise. On our Chilean trip
>>>> last
>>>> year we had both these species at 46 degrees south which is only a day
>>>> or
>>>> two's flight to Cape Horn for one of these guys (the Buller's was
>>>> exceptional that far south but normal for Pink-footed).
>>>>
>>>> I cant wait to hear more about the sighting. It has certainly livened
>>>> up
>>>> the Autumn!
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> From: "richard mundy"
>>>>>
>>>>> To:
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:00 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How can it be difficult to separate from Sooty and difficult to
>>>> separate
>>>>
>>>>> from Balearic? That is tantamount to saying that Sooty is difficult to
>>>>> separate from Balearic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Lee G R Evans
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike and others
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This report came in from Tom Lowe, Dan Brown, Michael Hoit and one
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> whose name escapes me; described as a possible and not claimed as
>>>>>> outright.
>>>>>> There have been several claims of this species from Flamborough Head
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> East
>>>>>> Yorkshire (same observer each time) but as others have already
>>>>>> commented,
>>>>>> very difficult to separate from both Sooty and Balearic
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best wishes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> www.markcarmodyphotography.com
>> My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
>>
>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-Wilson/dp/1848890176
>> )
>> General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
>>
>>
--
www.markcarmodyphotography.com
My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-Wilson/dp/1848890176
)
General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Phil Davis <phildavis AT IOL.IE>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 07:45:14 +0100
Hi Mark, I wasn't implying that you were dissing the record, the exact
opposite in fact. The point I was making was that none of the usual suspects
have been on rubbishing this bird, yet when Madeiran Petrel was claimed by
two excellent birders they were all over the record like a rash! I just
think its strange.
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Carmody"
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
> Phil, I'm not dissing the record...I hope it is one! It's made up mind to
> head to Galley this weekend. Haven't been seawatching this year yet and am
> chomping at the bit now. I haven't seen a Cory's in a long time so that
> for
> me would be brilliant. Anything else would be a bonus ;)
>
> Mark
>
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Phil Davis wrote:
>
>> I'm so glad Owen didn't claim this (possible)bird, cos then we would have
>> loads of mails dismissing it, instead of , (rightly so in my opinion),
>> birders looking forward to the Autumn, cos they might see a Short Tailed
>> Shearwater, or Sooty or Balearic, or Madeiran Petrel or Dodo.
>> Jesus!!!!!! the hypocrisy..... is that spelt right? John Coveney, where
>> are
>> you when we need you?
>> Phil(must lay off the red wine)Davis.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Keeffe" <
>> okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
>>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:39 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>
>>
>> Rick,
>>>
>>> My friend if Short-tailed falls in between Sooty and Balearic in
>>> appearance (closer to Sooty) it could be confusable with either species.
>>> That's not the same as saying Sooty and Balearic are as similar.
>>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> The Pacific birds you mention are all breeding in Northern Canada
>>> whereas
>>> Short-tailed breeds in Australia, thousands of miles further again as
>>> you
>>> know. Black-bellied/White-bellied Storm-petrels breed in the South
>>> Atlantic. No Short-tailed would a be truely exceptional record! Then
>>> again, Streaked Shearwater from the same area made it to Isreal in
>>> 1992/1993.
>>>
>>> From reading up on Short-tailed occurrances off the West Coast of North
>>>>
>>> America they seem to be mainly 1st years. So one possible scenario
>>> would
>>> be that a bird which was born in Australia towards the end of last year
>>> has
>>> spent the last eight or nine months making its way accross the South
>>> Pacific
>>> into the Atlantic, perhaps meeting up with Sooty and Great Shears a few
>>> months ago and heading North with them to began its circuit north.
>>> Except
>>> this time it was up the east coast of the Americas (instead of East
>>> Asia)
>>> and finally around to the Irish coast. If one did it certainly would be
>>> a
>>> mighty job and it would raise the possibility of other species like
>>> Pink-footed or Buller's Shearwater doing likewise. On our Chilean trip
>>> last
>>> year we had both these species at 46 degrees south which is only a day
>>> or
>>> two's flight to Cape Horn for one of these guys (the Buller's was
>>> exceptional that far south but normal for Pink-footed).
>>>
>>> I cant wait to hear more about the sighting. It has certainly livened
>>> up
>>> the Autumn!
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>>> From: "richard mundy"
>>>>
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>>
>>>
>>> How can it be difficult to separate from Sooty and difficult to
>>> separate
>>>> from Balearic? That is tantamount to saying that Sooty is difficult to
>>>> separate from Balearic.
>>>>
>>>> Rick
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Lee G R Evans
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Mike and others
>>>>>
>>>>> This report came in from Tom Lowe, Dan Brown, Michael Hoit and one
>>>>> other
>>>>> whose name escapes me; described as a possible and not claimed as
>>>>> outright.
>>>>> There have been several claims of this species from Flamborough Head
>>>>> in
>>>>> East
>>>>> Yorkshire (same observer each time) but as others have already
>>>>> commented,
>>>>> very difficult to separate from both Sooty and Balearic
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> www.markcarmodyphotography.com
> My first Book: Shorebirds of Ireland (
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shorebirds-Ireland-Pictures-Jim-Wilson/dp/1848890176
> )
> General Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
>
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
From: Hugh Delaney <hughdelaney AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 03:41:35 +0100
Probably wiser to hear from the observers, 1st hand, what they saw, i believe
Short-tailed's flight style is noticeably different from Sooty, that's an
opinion from somebody i know who saw both in numbers in the same area, not
myself unfortunately!
Hugh
----- Original Message -----
From: "richard mundy"
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Sent: Thursday, 19 August, 2010 23:30:32 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland,
Portugal
Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
Mike, as I'm sure you realise I was being deliberately obtuse. Arctic Skua
for example is confusable with Long-tailed and Pom but they are not easily
confused with one another. I've never seen Short-tailed. I've looked for
them off BC but saw only Sooties (I think!). The serious side to my comment
is that I thought Sooty was the only real confusion species. I would have
thought that if you're even considering Balearic then the views you're
getting (size, shape, wing-shape, wing-length, overall colour, belly-colour,
underwing pattern) are nowhere near good enough to be attempting to separate
Short-tailed from Sooty. But maybe Short-tailed has Balearic-like features
that I'm not aware of?
Rick
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Phil Davis wrote:
> I'm so glad Owen didn't claim this (possible)bird, cos then we would have
> loads of mails dismissing it, instead of , (rightly so in my opinion),
> birders looking forward to the Autumn, cos they might see a Short Tailed
> Shearwater, or Sooty or Balearic, or Madeiran Petrel or Dodo.
> Jesus!!!!!! the hypocrisy..... is that spelt right? John Coveney, where are
> you when we need you?
> Phil(must lay off the red wine)Davis.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Keeffe" <
> okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:39 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>
>
> Rick,
>>
>> My friend if Short-tailed falls in between Sooty and Balearic in
>> appearance (closer to Sooty) it could be confusable with either species.
>> That's not the same as saying Sooty and Balearic are as similar.
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> The Pacific birds you mention are all breeding in Northern Canada whereas
>> Short-tailed breeds in Australia, thousands of miles further again as you
>> know. Black-bellied/White-bellied Storm-petrels breed in the South
>> Atlantic. No Short-tailed would a be truely exceptional record! Then
>> again, Streaked Shearwater from the same area made it to Isreal in
>> 1992/1993.
>>
>> From reading up on Short-tailed occurrances off the West Coast of North
>>>
>> America they seem to be mainly 1st years. So one possible scenario would
>> be that a bird which was born in Australia towards the end of last year has
>> spent the last eight or nine months making its way accross the South Pacific
>> into the Atlantic, perhaps meeting up with Sooty and Great Shears a few
>> months ago and heading North with them to began its circuit north. Except
>> this time it was up the east coast of the Americas (instead of East Asia)
>> and finally around to the Irish coast. If one did it certainly would be a
>> mighty job and it would raise the possibility of other species like
>> Pink-footed or Buller's Shearwater doing likewise. On our Chilean trip last
>> year we had both these species at 46 degrees south which is only a day or
>> two's flight to Cape Horn for one of these guys (the Buller's was
>> exceptional that far south but normal for Pink-footed).
>>
>> I cant wait to hear more about the sighting. It has certainly livened up
>> the Autumn!
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>> From: "richard mundy"
>>>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: Possible Short-tailed Shearwater off the Bridges yesterday
>>
>>
>> How can it be difficult to separate from Sooty and difficult to separate
>>> from Balearic? That is tantamount to saying that Sooty is difficult to
>>> separate from Balearic.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Lee G R Evans
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mike and others
>>>>
>>>> This report came in from Tom Lowe, Dan Brown, Michael Hoit and one other
>>>> whose name escapes me; described as a possible and not claimed as
>>>> outright.
>>>> There have been several claims of this species from Flamborough Head in
>>>> East
>>>> Yorkshire (same observer each time) but as others have already
>>>> commented,
>>>> very difficult to separate from both Sooty and Balearic
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes
>>>>
>>>> Lee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
|
