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20 Nov pond ["Barbara Brooks" ] 20 Nov Re: Fea's Petrel ["Mike Tove" ] 20 Nov Re: A weird observation today [Kent Fiala ] 20 Nov Swainson's Hawk heading south from Cape May [Nate Dias ] 20 Nov Re: A weird observation today [] 20 Nov Selasphorus hummingbird, Conway SC 11-20-2009 [Gary Phillips ] 20 Nov Chapel Hill Bird Club meeting, Nov 23 [Will Cook ] 20 Nov Golden-crowned Kinglet - New Bern, NC [Ken Lady ] 20 Nov Re: current state of Pea Island NC waterfowl? [jeff lewis ] 20 Nov Re: current state of Pea Island NC waterfowl? ["Jim and Ginny" ] 20 Nov Re: current state of Pea Island NC waterfowl? [Jesse Pope ] 20 Nov current state of Pea Island NC waterfowl? [Ward Linda ] 19 Nov A weird observation today ["KC Foggin" ] 19 Nov Cooper's Hawk Photo Posted [Randy Climpson ] 19 Nov Fw: A favor please, Ron? ["Ron" ] 19 Nov Mystery Empid - opinions requested [Nate Dias ] 19 Nov Eurasian Wigeon New Bern, NC [Alan Gamache ] 19 Nov Bachman's Sparrows in the Croatan National Forest, NC ["John Fussell" ] 18 Nov waxwings [jspippen ] 18 Nov good birding at Santee NWR - belated report [Nate Dias ] 18 Nov Why delete when you can just read online... [Kevin Caldwell ] 18 Nov Raven in Wake ["Ali Iyoob" ] 18 Nov Henderson Cty. ["wforsythe" ] 18 Nov two Juncos, Lexington, SC [] 18 Nov Buncombe County CBC [Marilyn Westphal ] 18 Nov RE: Wake Laughing Gulls ["Ali Iyoob" ] 18 Nov Wake Laughing Gulls ["Steve Shultz" ] 18 Nov Re: Pea Island and Highway 12 ["Jim and Ginny" ] 18 Nov Re: Pea Island and Highway 12 [] 18 Nov Re: ATTN: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List [John Scavetto ] 18 Nov Re: ATTN: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List ["KC Foggin" ] 18 Nov Pea Island and Highway 12 [Derb Carter ] 18 Nov Re: Bonner Bridge ["Jim and Ginny" ] 18 Nov Re: Bonner Bridge [Russ Lay ] 18 Nov Fw: Bonner Bridge ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] 18 Nov Fw: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] 18 Nov Fw: Bonner Bridge ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] 18 Nov Fw: Bonner Bridge ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] 6 Apr Re: Bonner Bridge ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] 18 Nov Cumberland County CBC compiler? counters? ["birdranger" ] 18 Nov Pea Island and local birds ["Karen Bearden" ] 18 Nov Henderson Cty., NC and Buncombe Cty., NC ["wforsythe" ] 6 Apr Re: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] 18 Nov Cedar Waxwings are back ["Daniel Hueholt" ] 18 Nov Re: Bonner Bridge [jeff lewis ] 18 Nov Re: ATTN: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List [Ric Carter ] 18 Nov Re: ATTN: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List [Dick Repasky ] 18 Nov ATTN: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List [Jess Gorzo ] 18 Nov Re: Bonner Bridge [Russ Lay ] 18 Nov Re: Bonner Bridge [Ric Carter ] 18 Nov Re: Bonner Bridge [Russ Lay ] 6 Apr Re: Bonner Bridge ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] 18 Nov RE: Bonner Bridge [Quent Lupton ] 6 Apr Re: Bonner Bridge ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] 18 Nov Bonner Bridge [Becky Desjardins ] 18 Nov Guilford County Scoter, Hummer, etc. [Henry Link ] 17 Nov Re: Swinhoe's Storm-Petrel ["Mike Tove" ] 17 Nov Re: Pea Island and Bonner Bridge [] 17 Nov wildbird magazine ["Ali Iyoob" ] 17 Nov Hilton Pond 11/11/09 (Cedar Waxwings) [Bill Hilton Jr. ] 17 Nov Sutton Lake Vespers ["John Ennis" ] 17 Nov RE: Ammodramus sp. at Mason Farm, Chapel Hill, NC? [Robert Rowan Meehan ] 17 Nov Swinhoe's Storm-Petrel [Clyde Smith ] 17 Nov Re: Pea Island and Bonner Bridge ["Jim and Ginny" ] 17 Nov one Junco [] 17 Nov Re: Ammodramus sp. at Mason Farm, Chapel Hill, NC? [Chris Hill ] 17 Nov Pea Island and Bonner Bridge [Derb Carter ] 17 Nov Cedar Waxwings in Burlington [Steve Wedge ] 17 Nov Re: OBX, Pamlico Peninsula, 11/14-/11-15 ["Jim and Ginny" ] 17 Nov Juncos Have Arrived ["John Ennis" ] 17 Nov Langley SC White Pelicans ["Steve Cox" ] 17 Nov Marsh Hawk in Lee County? ["Paul Hubert" ] 16 Nov Lincoln's Sparrow ["Ali Iyoob" ] 16 Nov Cooper's photo [Randy Climpson ] 16 Nov Singing birds [jeff lewis ] 16 Nov Rufous Hummingbird, Moore Co., NC [Wayne Irvin ] Subject: pond From: "Barbara Brooks" <brooksba1 AT verizon.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:57:13 -0500 took the scope out to the pond. had 3 pairs American Widgeon, about 5 pairs of ring neck ducks, 2 coots and 3 piebilled grebes. a double crested cormorant flew in also. when i first got there there were about 20 canadas who got spooked and flew off. there must have been 40-50 vultures, mostly TV as best I could tell. They were kettling above the gravel pit. As this was about 10 am, I doubt they were roosting and hope nothing nepharius was going on. After the geese left, i saw an odd goose-like bird. Its head pattern was extremely close to a barnacle goose, after I told myself that was not possible further study showed it to have a speckled gray,white neck, gray breast (ruled out barnacle) and rest of bird was patterned after the canadas. As best i could tell, its legs were not black but it was swimming. So I am thingking a strangely patterned canada goose or remotely a cross between the two. I am sure y'all let me know that a cross is not possible. this evening at the house, had a fox sparrow and while i don't keep notes, I have never seen one this early and only when the weather is really bad. Hope this is not a omen about the winter. all birds in NE Orange co. barb brooks brooksba1 AT verizon.net Subject: Re: Fea's Petrel From: "Mike Tove" <mtove AT deltaforce.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:56:16 -0500 Bill, Your email actually misses the mark. Here's why: 1. There are Two (2) papers published which, based on morphometric data from birds of known identity (Fea's/Zino's) that unambiguously conclude, these birds ARE identifiable and the NC birds ARE Fea's. Conversely, there are Zero (0) papers which contradict or even call into question the conclusions of those reports. THe CLC refuses to acknowledge those reports - even though one was published in Birding. If that arbitrary bias is not unprecidented, it is far more embarassing than having to remove a listing based on new evidence not previously available. 2. In the Birding note, you said the CLC was "ready to accept Fea's" but you don't which to do so now because of a proposed future split. Why? Because the CLC may have to modify the listing in the future based on something which hasn't happened yet? But, here's the irony. The CLC would have to do THAT anyway - even if it retains the current (embarassment) of "Fea's/Zino's" because the two-way split would then revert to a three-way. Honestly, there is no logical, scientifically justifiable reason to maintain this unique bias against a species that every expert says is identifiable and known because you don't want to be "hasty" (it's only been 16+ years since the first published documentation). We only see double digit numbers of these birds every single year. We know more about their distribution, movement, biology, etc. than probably any other species on the North American list which isn't specimen-supported. Give me a break. Mike Tove ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Pranty To: ewscholz AT gmail.com ; mtove AT deltaforce.net ; Bill Pranty Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:29 PM Subject: RE: Fea's Petrel Good afternoon Eric, with copy to Michael, Thanks for your opinion. I haven't researched the CLC's votes for the past 30+ years well enough to know whether our deliberations on Fea's/Zino's Petrel are unprecedented.. But I do admit that as chair of the CLC, I seek to avoid hasty decisions that may later "embarrass" the committee. In the recent past, the CLC added Yellow-chevroned Parakeet to the ABA Checklist in violation of one of our own guidelines. As soon as I became chair, I got the CLC to remove the species less than three years after it was added. Similarly, the Arkansas BRC voted quickly to accept David Luneau's video as a verified record of an Ivory-billed Woodpecker. To my knowledge, they have not rescinded this vote despite much additional analysis of the video that suggests that the bird is a Pileated Woodpecker. Hasty decisions often are unwise decisions. As the current CLC report states, we continue to examine the evidence surrounding Fea's/Zino's Petrel, and I'm sure that we'll reach consensus in 2010. Two of the CLC's members, Jon Dunn and Andy Kratter, also serve currently on the AOU Check-list Committee, so I suspect that an AOU vote to consider "splitting" Fea's Petrel into Fea's Petrel and Desertas Petrel will also occur in 2010. Best regards, Bill Pranty ABA Checklist Committee chair Bayonet Point, Florida ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more. !DSPAM:4b071840187476058340931! Subject: Re: A weird observation today From: Kent Fiala <fiala AT ipass.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:38:13 -0500 Mark Twain wrote about "Blue Jays" (I assume actually Steller's Jays) doing this. Just google Mark Twain what stumped the blue jays. Kent Fiala Chapel Hill Township, NC Subject: Swainson's Hawk heading south from Cape May From: Nate Dias <offshorebirder AT yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:08:43 -0800 (PST) A Swainson's Hawk that was present at Cape May since November 7 apparently left this past Tuesday (Nov. 17). It was last seen in flight from the Hawk Watch at Cape May Point State Park at 1:00pm on 11/17. Carolina birders visiting grasslands or agricultural habitat near the coast (or just inland) might want to keep an eye out, and double-check their Buteos. A few photos of the bird (an immature light morph): http://www.birdcapemay.org/blog/uploaded_images/hawk,-swainsons-nomo-beanery-11-08-09-mobrien-766412.jpg http://www.birdcapemay.org/blog/uploaded_images/hawk,-swainsons-beanery-11-08-09-mobrien-766218.jpg http://www.birdcapemay.org/blog/uploaded_images/DPF_7182-1-711904.JPG Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC Subject: Re: A weird observation today From: jackpateck AT comcast.net Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:24:24 +0000 (UTC) Yesterday I saw the same thing. A red-bellied woodpecker was flying from an oak tree to the peak of my neighbors house with an acorn. He was then depositing the acord behide the siding. I could hear it rolling all the hay to the bottom. I aslo obsewrved a flock of 50+ flickers headin south around 5 PM. Jack Eckstine Hanahan,SC ----- Original Message ----- From: "KC Foggin" To: "CarolinaBirds" Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:29:29 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: A weird observation today So I'm behind my office building and I watch this Red-bellied Woodpecker go to a steel framed glass door on the second floor and attach itself to the metal frame and it looked like it was just bobbing its head. At first I thought it was attracted to its reflection but it quickly flew back to one of the Oak trees and then went to the frame of the door again. It turned its head for a second and I saw that it had an acorn in its beak. Looking again, I realize that it is hanging on to the protruding lock and just above the lock is a whole in the metal frame where an old lock used to be and no one ever filled it. Until the woodie came around that is ;) What it was doing was dropping the acorns into the whole in the frame. This went on for a good 5 minutes. Back and forth between the Oak Tree and the hole in the frame of the door. Have our birds adapted that much where any cavity will do when trying to store food? Of course unless he fills it to the brim, he's never going to be able to retrieve the acorns. Very interesting though. K.C. K.C. Foggin Socastee Myrtle Beach SC www.birdforum.net www.pbase.com/kcfoggin/nikon_d50_pages&page=15 I love my Kindle Subject: Selasphorus hummingbird, Conway SC 11-20-2009 From: Gary Phillips <carolinensis AT yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:02:01 -0800 (PST) woohoo! a fem/imm. Selasphorus hummingbird showed up in the confines here this a.m. looks like Mr. Ruby-throated could have company to contend with again this winter. oh well, he had it all to himself for a few weeks, anyway... a Hermit Thrush continues to make sporadic visits, yesterday afternoon perching just outside the front door for awhile, seemingly taking in the activities of the other Aves present. a wacky juv.-type oriole has been frequenting the same spot, occasionally investigating a seed feeder, then perching nearby and observing other birds as if to say "what are you guys getting out of there?" a smattering of White-throateds, juncos and Chippies have joined the locals. curiously, a loquat procured several years ago from whunadoze amazing south Looezyanna winter hummer yards has bloomed and appears to be setting fruit. last year it blossomed in Jan. but produced no fruit. hmmm, maybe the thrush knows something? Gary Phillips Conway, SC "A dog might as well speculate on the mind of Newton." - Darwin Subject: Chapel Hill Bird Club meeting, Nov 23 From: Will Cook <cwcook AT duke.edu> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:58:43 -0500 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Chapel Hill Bird Club meeting, Nov 23 From: "David Smith" Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:33:49 -0600 To: carolinabirds AT duke.edu On Monday, November 23 at 7:30 P.M., the Chapel Hill Bird Club will welcome Dr. Rindy Anderson as the speaker. Her talk is entitled "Fighting and flirting: birdsong and the evolution of honest communication systems." Rindy is a post-doctoral researcher in the Biology Department at Duke University. For several years, her research has centered on how birds learn their songs and how they use them to communicate. The meeting place is Olin T. Binkley Baptist Church in Chapel Hill and all are welcome. David F. Smith, Durham NC -------- Original Message Ends -------- -- Charles W. (Will) Cook w 919-660-5144 http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook cwcook AT duke.edu Box 90338, Biology Dept., Duke Univ., Durham, NC 27708 Subject: Golden-crowned Kinglet - New Bern, NC From: Ken Lady <kenlady AT suddenlink.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:32:31 -0500 On Thursday, November 20, Olwen Jarvis, Bob Gould, Margaret Heberlein, and Ken Lady observed a Golden-crowned Kinglet during an ecount for Cornell University. This was the first Golden-crowned Kinglet observed during any Fairfield Harbour ecount. Fairfield Harbour ecount observations are made each Thursday and cover the marina area of Fairfield Harbour. The entire observation followss: 93 Canada Goose 84 Mallard 41 Ring-necked Duck 3 Common Loon 6 Pied-billed Grebe 3 Double-crested Cormorant 2 Great Blue Heron 2 Osprey 2 Cooper's Hawk 1 Killdeer 2 Laughing Gull 62 Ring-billed Gull 1 Great Black-backed Gull 1 Royal Tern 20 Mourning Dove 2 Belted Kingfisher 4 Red-bellied Woodpecker 5 Yellow-bellied Sapsucker 2 Downy Woodpecker 8 Northern Flicker 1 Eastern Phoebe 41 Blue Jay 2 Fish Crow 3 Tree Swallow 4 Carolina Chickadee 9 Tufted Titmouse 16 Brown-headed Nuthatch 12 Carolina Wren 1 Golden-crowned Kinglet 3 Ruby-crowned Kinglet 36 Eastern Bluebird 16 American Robin 12 Northern Mockingbird 5 European Starling 158 Yellow-rumped Warbler 5 Eastern Towhee 5 Northern Cardinal 15 Red-winged Blackbird 48 Common Grackle 5 House Finch 3 House Sparrow Ken Lady New Bern, NC Subject: Re: current state of Pea Island NC waterfowl? From: jeff lewis <jlewis_obx AT yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:24:37 -0800 (PST) Linda, Jesse, all, The Bonner Bridge is open again. There are short delays due to construction. On Pea Island there are still salt water puddles and sand on NC 12 but the refuge is accessible. The Visitor Center is fine. Jeff Lewis Manteo, NC --- On Fri, 11/20/09, Ward Linda wrote: > From: Ward Linda > Subject: current state of Pea Island NC waterfowl? > To: carolinabirds AT duke.edu > Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 7:30 AM > Does anyone know the current state of > the waterfowl (and waders, etc) at Pea Island since the > Veterans Day storm? How about the visitors center/wildlife > store, is it standing? > > linda > > --Linda Jeannette Ward > --P.O. Box 231 > --Coinjock, N.C. 27923 > --U.S.A. > --tankapoet AT yahoo.com > > >       > Subject: Re: current state of Pea Island NC waterfowl? From: "Jim and Ginny" <topsynturvy AT msn.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:13:16 -0500 Everything is back to normal. That is except the maint. buildings on the ocean side. Ginny Luizer Hatteras Island ----- Original Message ----- From: Jesse Pope To: carolinabirds AT duke.edu Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 7:46 AM Subject: Re: current state of Pea Island NC waterfowl? Dido. What is access like from the north end from Nags Head? Is the bridge closed to Pea Island? Would love some clarity. Thanks. Jesse Pope Grandfather Mountain Chief Naturalist P.O Box 129 Linville, NC 28646 828-733-4326 www.grandfather.com --- On Fri, 11/20/09, Ward Linda wrote: > From: Ward Linda > Subject: current state of Pea Island NC waterfowl? > To: carolinabirds AT duke.edu > Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 7:30 AM > Does anyone know the current state of > the waterfowl (and waders, etc) at Pea Island since the > Veterans Day storm? How about the visitors center/wildlife > store, is it standing? > > linda > > --Linda Jeannette Ward > --P.O. Box 231 > --Coinjock, N.C. 27923 > --U.S.A. > --tankapoet AT yahoo.com > > > > Subject: Re: current state of Pea Island NC waterfowl? From: Jesse Pope <highcountrybirder AT yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 04:46:52 -0800 (PST) Dido. What is access like from the north end from Nags Head? Is the bridge closed to Pea Island? Would love some clarity. Thanks. Jesse Pope Grandfather Mountain Chief Naturalist P.O Box 129 Linville, NC 28646 828-733-4326 www.grandfather.com --- On Fri, 11/20/09, Ward Linda wrote: > From: Ward Linda > Subject: current state of Pea Island NC waterfowl? > To: carolinabirds AT duke.edu > Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 7:30 AM > Does anyone know the current state of > the waterfowl (and waders, etc) at Pea Island since the > Veterans Day storm? How about the visitors center/wildlife > store, is it standing? > > linda > > --Linda Jeannette Ward > --P.O. Box 231 > --Coinjock, N.C. 27923 > --U.S.A. > --tankapoet AT yahoo.com > > >       > Subject: current state of Pea Island NC waterfowl? From: Ward Linda <tankapoet AT yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 04:30:50 -0800 (PST) Does anyone know the current state of the waterfowl (and waders, etc) at Pea Island since the Veterans Day storm? How about the visitors center/wildlife store, is it standing? linda --Linda Jeannette Ward --P.O. Box 231 --Coinjock, N.C. 27923 --U.S.A. --tankapoet AT yahoo.com Subject: A weird observation today From: "KC Foggin" <KCFoggin AT sc.rr.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:29:29 -0500 So I'm behind my office building and I watch this Red-bellied Woodpecker go to a steel framed glass door on the second floor and attach itself to the metal frame and it looked like it was just bobbing its head. At first I thought it was attracted to its reflection but it quickly flew back to one of the Oak trees and then went to the frame of the door again. It turned its head for a second and I saw that it had an acorn in its beak. Looking again, I realize that it is hanging on to the protruding lock and just above the lock is a whole in the metal frame where an old lock used to be and no one ever filled it. Until the woodie came around that is ;) What it was doing was dropping the acorns into the whole in the frame. This went on for a good 5 minutes. Back and forth between the Oak Tree and the hole in the frame of the door. Have our birds adapted that much where any cavity will do when trying to store food? Of course unless he fills it to the brim, he's never going to be able to retrieve the acorns. Very interesting though. K.C. K.C. Foggin Socastee Myrtle Beach SC www.birdforum.net www.pbase.com/kcfoggin/nikon_d50_pages&page=15 I love my Kindle Subject: Cooper's Hawk Photo Posted From: Randy Climpson <rclimpson AT yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:09:01 -0800 (PST) All Cooper's Hawk fans: The really cool Cooper's photo I mentioned earlier is now posted on the CBC photo gallery...taken by friend Phil Day. Hope you enjoy it....excellent composure. --Randy Climpson Ocean Isle Beach, NC Subject: Fw: A favor please, Ron? From: "Ron" <waxwing AT bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:31:56 -0500 I was asked to forward this email. Ron Clark Kings Mtn NC >I am at a non-home location and cannot get the C-birds server to accept my >post. Would you please post this for me? > > Thanx! > > Subj: Bald Eagle over Falls Lake 18NOV09 > > An immature Bald Eagle overflew me at ~1400 hrs (2:00p) yesterday > afternoon. I was watching and hearing the chattering of an immature > Red-headed WP at the time. I spotted a BIG dark broad-winged bird that was > neither vulture nor Osprey as heheaded straight toward me over the water. > Got a GREATview in 10x binox. > > This was at the boat-launch picnic area across the water (and bridges) > from the Park office and dock off Creedmoor Rd. (Hwy 50). Except for the > above, and Pine, Yellow-rumped, and Blackpoll wblrs, and some Cedar WWs > and Sapsuckers, and SCORES of Cormorants (some in groups of 10-20) and a > few Pied-billed Grebes, all others were the usual suspects. NO dux; NO > Osprey. > > Tomm Lorenzin (visiting in Wake Forest, NC) > > Subject: Mystery Empid - opinions requested From: Nate Dias <offshorebirder AT yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:52:45 -0800 (PST) When I first encountered the following Empid, that was initially spotted by Bill Dobbins - I chalked it up as a Traill's Flycatcher: http://www.flickr.com/photos/scbirdpics (after clicking the thumbnail photos, click the "+ All Sizes" button to see an extra-large image) Back at the time (September 2008), I foolishly passed off the bird's apparent rounded head, gray color, long tail, and some other features as artifacts of bright light, angle and so forth. I'm not sure if my fellow birders fully agreed with the ID - but if so, they were too polite to say. We were in the middle of a migration fallout, and I kept getting distracted by Blue-winged Warblers and other goodies. But in hindsight, I wish I had ignored them all and gotten some videotape of this Empid. I did not hear it vocalizing and I regret to say I did not pay attention to things like tail-wagging or flicking. At any rate: When I was recently going through some photos and field notes for 'catch-up' eBird submissions, I became convinced the bird was NOT a Traill's Flycatcher (Willow/Alder complex). In terms of behavior: the bird stayed fairly low - mostly hanging around a small brush pile in a clearing at the edge of a maritime forest at the far eastern end of Kiawah Island, SC. It did not use high perches or perch in trees out in the open - it kept low and fed on Pyralid moths and other bugs around the brush pile and in the grass/weeds. I would like to hear what some of the world-class birders on CAROLINABIRDS think. * I realize we will probably not be able to 100% conclusively ID this bird from photos alone, but I would like to narrow it down to as few possibilities as we can. Here are my thoughts: Based on the bird's pale whitish belly and 'dirty' grayish-white breast (no yellow or green tones), very rounded crown, fairly prominent white eye ring, long tail, short primary projection, very long+flat bill, gray coloration, dark-tipped lower mandible and head-versus-body size: I feel I can rule out all Empids except Least Flycatcher, Gray Flycatcher and Dusky Flycatcher. To my mind - the tail seems too long, and the head "too small for the body", and the bill too long to be a Least Flycatcher. I am having a harder time ruling out Gray FC and Dusky FC. Any thoughts appreciated. Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC Subject: Eurasian Wigeon New Bern, NC From: Alan Gamache <al AT iensemble.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:03:33 -0500 C' Birders, Once again, a male EURASIAN WIGEON has joined the other ducks: Gadwall, Redhead, Ring-necked Duck, American Wigeon, Ruddy etc. etc. on Lilliput Pond just off Perrytown Road. Along with American Coots, and Water Bunnies (Cotton-tailed Water Bunnies that is) as Pat Herlands likes to call the Pied-billed Grebe. Al Gamache New Bern, NC Subject: Bachman's Sparrows in the Croatan National Forest, NC From: "John Fussell" <jfuss AT clis.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:10:23 -0500 In sections of the southern Croatan having wiregrass that were burned over this past summer Bachman's Sparrows are quite easy to find now. John Fussell Morehead City, NC jfuss AT clis.com Subject: waxwings From: jspippen <jspippen AT duke.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:17:37 -0500 (EST) Birders, Just a passing observation that Cedar Waxwings seem to be more numerous around Durham than in past years in mid-November. I've already seen and heard some pretty decent-sized flocks both in my neighborhood and on Duke's campus. Good Birding, Jeff ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Jeffrey S. Pippen Nicholas School of the Environment Rm A-241 LSRC Bldg, Box 90328 Duke University, Durham, NC 27708 PH: (919) 660-7278 http://www.duke.edu/~jspippen/nature.htm ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Subject: good birding at Santee NWR - belated report From: Nate Dias <offshorebirder AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:01:23 -0800 (PST) This past Sunday I had good birding in the Pine Island unit of Santee National Wildlife Refuge near Summerton, SC. Sedge Wrens were thick as fleas - I saw 7 different individuals and heard at least another dozen. One gave great looks and video opportunities. If you go looking for them, knowing their call is crucial. Lets you know where to stop, stand still and gently pish them up into view. Raptors were plentiful, with fair variety. Best sight was a Merlin dive-bombing a Cooper's Hawk that was cruising high above the wooded edge of a field. Also saw 1 male and several female/immature Northern Harriers, 5 American Kestrels (3m 2f/i), multiple Red-shouldered and Red-tailed Hawks, a couple of Sharpies, and three Bald Eagles (1 adult, 2 imm) and 2-3 Ospreys. No Rusty Blackbirds yet... Sparrows were all over the place - mostly Swamp and Song, but White-throated, Savannah, and Chipping in places and two White-crowned (adult and imm.). Had a little pod of Field Sparrows over to the left of the spur road into the grasslands. Speaking of grasslands: if you haven't visited the Pine Island unit in a while, your jaw might drop when you walk down the dirt road from the woods out into the big grassland area. The refuge did a lot of work on dikes, water control structures, ditches, etc. The end product looks good. A lot of the trees along the roadside ditches were removed, and most of the pesky re-sprouting trees out in the 'fields' are gone. In short - it is an even finer open grassland habitat - strategically located on the north shore of Lake Marion. Open country birds, grassland specialists, sparrows, Bobwhite Quail - all should find it more appealing with the improvements and now that the grass has grown back. It has potential for Short-eared Owl later in the winter. If we can get more rain soon, the 'freshwater' Ammodramus sparrows should take a new liking to their old haunts. Like this one in the 'back corner' of Pine Island: http://www.crbo.net/LeContes.html Other highlights: Canada Goose (members of South Carolina's last significant group of migratory Canada Geese: http://www.fws.gov/santee/pdf/CanadaGooseResearchonSNWR.pdf ) Ring-necked Duck (51) Mallard (4 - unsure if 'tamies' or wild) Wood Duck (9) Northern Shovelor (12) Hooded Merganser (7) Common Loon (1) Anhinga (2) Wood Stork (1) Wilson's Snipe (2) Red-headed Woodpecker (5) Hairy Woodpecker (6-7) Loggerhead Shrike (9 -- had 5 in view at one point) Blue-headed Vireo (2-3) Sedge Wren (15+) Yellow-throated Warbler Black-and-white Warbler Prairie Warbler Palm Warbler Indigo Bunting (imm - female perhaps) Eastern Meadowlark (lots - quit counting at 210) Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC Subject: Why delete when you can just read online... From: Kevin Caldwell <mtssea AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:54:48 -0800 (PST) Delete-conflicted birders... Maybe I read this wrong but perhaps subscribing to the list format where you get one email a day (vs. 7 or 12 or 29 emails) or just reading online is easier than constantly deleting. I just go to the birdingonthe.net mailing lists / North Carolina - done, no emails to clutter an already busy box. http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CARO.html#1258593347 It's a permanant link in my browser and I can read whatever interests, skip anything not of interest. No emails required so if I'm gone for 2 weeks there aren't 700 emails or even 14 sitting in the email acct - none. Click the link in the toolbar overhead to read about birds, then exit. Done. I also prefer a non-contentious group and have skimmed all the coast OBX / Bonner Bridge stuff since no one's ever going to agree on it, but also don't care much for censorship but of the most hateful, vitriolic, or obscene / irrelevant. Even then - I'd just skim it to read about someone's one-eyed junco. Kevin Caldwell Marshall, NC / Madison Co Subject: Raven in Wake From: "Ali Iyoob" <Aliiyoob AT nc.rr.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:43:56 -0500 Today while walking the dogs, I had a raven fly over my yard-nice yard bird for my townhome (which doesn't even have tufted titmouse on the list). I identified it based on the gliding, wedged tail, and croaky voice. It was very close to the ground, and gave me great looks. Also, I had a strange ed-bellied Woodpecker at the neighbors suet. It had a orange nape, but other than that looked like a female RBWO. I know mutants do occur, and am suspecting this is what it was, as the nape was more of a deep orange than the gold of a Golden-fronted. Didn't have my camera for any of this, really need to start bringing it every time I step outside! Ali Iyoob North Raleigh, NC www.flickr.com/photos/longspur http://birdingjournal.blogspot.com Subject: Henderson Cty. From: "wforsythe" <wforsythe AT morrisbb.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:43:38 -0500 Folks, At about 4PM today, I went back to Lake Julian hoping the fog had lifted and it had. Present were approximately 150 Common Loons, Scaup Sp., Hooded Mergs, Red-breasted Merges, Ring-necked ducks, Buffleheads, and Redheads. On the way home, I again checked the Water Treatment pond on Rt.#191 and found 4 Herring Gulls. This species is pretty unusual in Henderson Cty. and when present are usually single birds. Seeing 4 birds at one time, is most unusual for Henderson Cty. Best regards, Wayne Wayne K. Forsythe Hendersonville, N. C. 828-697-6628 wforsythe AT morrisbb dot net Subject: two Juncos, Lexington, SC From: AmaSpirit AT aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:23:00 EST OK, it was two days ago when I saw my FOY Juncos in front yard. Those pink bills are so noticeable. Next day I noticed they were exiting the large Star Jessamine near the side of the house. That plant has a goal of taking over the Midlands of SC so I have to keep trimming it away from the house but, in winter, am more forgiving as it seems to be the chosen hiding spot for Juncos, Carolina Wrens, and Chipping and Song Sparrows. Meanwhile, one Holly has so many bright red berries, I can barely see leaves. Can't imagine why the Mockingbird or Cardinals haven't attacked it yet. Had second visit from Cooper's Hawk to my back fence yesterday. Twice in less than a week and this time might account for the Mourning Dove feathers under a feeder out front. Both times I've seen the Hawk sitting within 8 feet of my glass patio doors only to move when the cat or I move toward the door. As for the thread currently receiving comment, I'd love it if everyone put NC or SC in subject lines. When I know I can't get away, I tend to delete reports too far from me. But I don't know bridge names or county names, etc. in NC. Patricia Voelker Lexington, SC Subject: Buncombe County CBC From: Marilyn Westphal <mjwestph AT unca.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:15:16 -0500 If there is anyone out there who hasn't already let me know that they plan on participating in the Buncombe County (Asheville area) Christmas Bird Count on Sunday, December 20th, please let me know now. If you recently moved to the area and are interested in helping out on this count we'd be happy to have you. Thanks, Marilyn -- Marilyn Westphal Teaching Fellows Program University of North Carolina Asheville One University Heights Asheville, NC 28804 phone: 828/251-6864 email: mjwestph AT unca.edu Subject: RE: Wake Laughing Gulls From: "Ali Iyoob" <Aliiyoob AT nc.rr.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:09:22 -0500 I think I forgot to mention Sunday that I also had 2 Laughing Gulls. No loons, though. Ali Iyoob -----Original Message----- From: Steve Shultz [mailto:sshultz AT nc.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:28 PM To: carolinabirds Subject: Wake Laughing Gulls Stopped over at Lake Crabtree County Park this afternoon to see if the poorish weather induced any transient waterbirds to take a break. 4 COMMON LOONS and a smattering of ducks of various types fit that bill. Most surprising was a group of 5 LAUGHING GULLS. The gulls were sitting on the shoal that the cormorants and Ring-bills (with one HERRING GULL today) loaf on when they are not pursuing other interests. I've seen laughers at Falls and Jordan on several occasions, but this is a first for Crabtree, and the number of them was a surprise as well. Tried my best to blur the spotting scope so I could make one or more Franklin's, but just could not bring myself to do it. Also happy to report that the bridge over Lake Crabtree seems to have a sufficient enough safety rating that it does not need replaced in the really near future. Sorry, could not resist that one :-) Happily deleting stuff I don't wanna read and enjoying the rest, Steve Shultz Apex, NC Subject: Wake Laughing Gulls From: "Steve Shultz" <sshultz AT nc.rr.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:28:28 -0500 Stopped over at Lake Crabtree County Park this afternoon to see if the poorish weather induced any transient waterbirds to take a break. 4 COMMON LOONS and a smattering of ducks of various types fit that bill. Most surprising was a group of 5 LAUGHING GULLS. The gulls were sitting on the shoal that the cormorants and Ring-bills (with one HERRING GULL today) loaf on when they are not pursuing other interests. I've seen laughers at Falls and Jordan on several occasions, but this is a first for Crabtree, and the number of them was a surprise as well. Tried my best to blur the spotting scope so I could make one or more Franklin's, but just could not bring myself to do it. Also happy to report that the bridge over Lake Crabtree seems to have a sufficient enough safety rating that it does not need replaced in the really near future. Sorry, could not resist that one :-) Happily deleting stuff I don't wanna read and enjoying the rest, Steve Shultz Apex, NC Subject: Re: Pea Island and Highway 12 From: "Jim and Ginny" <topsynturvy AT msn.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:48:30 -0500 The Seashore, including Pea Island, enabling legislation was passed in 1937. However, the seashore (along with the wildlife refuge designation) was not established until 1952. As for the relationship between Pea Island, the bridge, highway 12, and the Villages, see Conrad Wirth's letter below--it was scanned so some of the text may be off but you get the message. Why do we feel like the American Indians?? Letter taken from The Coastland Times, Sunday, May 18, 1993 The Honorable Manuel Lujan, Jr. Secretary U. S. Department of Interior Washington, D. C. 20240 Dear Secretary WJan: I am sincerely grateful for your friendly reception extended to Governor James B. Martin and the people of Dare County, North Carolina on March 20, 1989 and your call for the Department of Interior to fully and immediately cooperate with the State of North Carolina and local governments as concems the stabilization of the north point of Hatteras Island and the protection of the Herbert C. Bonner bridge across Oregon Inlet. On October 27, 1952, when establishing the Cape Hatteras National Seashore, I as Director of the National Park Service promised the people of that area that 'The National Park Sevice and its staff stand ready to cooperate with you at all times In the development of your communities, !f you want us to. I hope we can work together as partners, and that we can look forward to a long and pleasant association that will bring enJoyment to millions of visitors and prosperity to you.' 'This promise was made in response to local concerns about how-the Park would affect the local people, their businesses and their rights to continue fishing, and in recognition that man is an integral part of nature and a very important consideration of designing solutions in dealing with nature. To date, as concerns the stabilization of Oregon Inlet, the Department of interior has not upheld that promise. I am and have always been a man of my word, and I respectfully urge you to uphold the promises made on behalf of the Department of Interior in 1952. Sincerely, Conrad L Wirth Former Director National Park SeMce Department of Interior Present address: West Acres Box400 New Lebanon, N. Y. 1 ~ 125 Ginny Luizer Buxton, NC (Hatteras Island) ----- Original Message ----- From: Derb Carter To: 'carolinabirds AT duke.edu' Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: Pea Island and Highway 12 Just to get the chronology straight, the Pea Island Refuge preceded NC Highway 12 and Bonner Bridge: Pea Island National Wildlife Refuge was established in 1937 The Refuge lands were acquired from private owners in 1938 Congress authorized an easement for Highway 12 through the Refuge in 1951 Department of the Interior conveyed an easement for Highway 12 to NCDOT in 1954 Bonner Bridge opened to traffic in 1963 Derb S. Carter, Jr. Subject: Re: Pea Island and Highway 12 From: russlay AT embarqmail.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:31:45 +0000 Sorry. Traditional use of what is now Hwy 12 predates the refuge. Of course, in those days folks, including the US Navy drove buses, cars, trucks and jeeps on the beach to traverse the island. Even in summer when birds were nesting. Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel -----Original Message----- From: Derb Carter Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:19:01 To: 'carolinabirds AT duke.edu' Subject: Pea Island and Highway 12 Just to get the chronology straight, the Pea Island Refuge preceded NC Highway 12 and Bonner Bridge: Pea Island National Wildlife Refuge was established in 1937 The Refuge lands were acquired from private owners in 1938 Congress authorized an easement for Highway 12 through the Refuge in 1951 Department of the Interior conveyed an easement for Highway 12 to NCDOT in 1954 Bonner Bridge opened to traffic in 1963 Derb S. Carter, Jr. Subject: Re: ATTN: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List From: John Scavetto <jscavetto AT carolina.rr.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:03:52 -0500 This is really silly. We all have a delete key and it's easy enough to hit. Birding automatically brings other topics that affect them. If all anyone wants to now is when and where birds are seen well than hit the delete key. But if you want to be educated by listening to opposing sides of a subject and it sparks your interest one can look into the particulars for themselves and draw there own opinions. It helps one become more aware of the goings on in our state or beyond. It helps to be more knowledgeable and allows us to be better stewards of our environment. This doesn't change the purpose of this list but instead adds to it's usefulness. Just my two cents worth also. John Scavetto Charlotte, NC KC Foggin wrote: > Blimey! (yeah, been hanging around with the Brits too long) > > What's happening here? Any newcomer to this listserv would certainly be put off by these, to my thinking, unfriendly posts. > > I, for one, have always felt a bit of family comraderie here on this list which makes it a pleasant stop and like a few others before me stated, I just hit the delete key when a post doesn't interest me. I don't know anyone well enough to form an opinion as to whether I like someone on the list or not. I think Will does an exemplary job running this list and I sure wouldn't want to see it change its format. > > My two cents. > > K.C. > > K.C. Foggin > Socastee > Myrtle Beach SC > > www.birdforum.net > www.pbase.com/kcfoggin/nikon_d50_pages&page=15 > > I love my Kindle > > Subject: Re: ATTN: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List From: "KC Foggin" <KCFoggin AT sc.rr.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:53:30 -0500 Blimey! (yeah, been hanging around with the Brits too long) What's happening here? Any newcomer to this listserv would certainly be put off by these, to my thinking, unfriendly posts. I, for one, have always felt a bit of family comraderie here on this list which makes it a pleasant stop and like a few others before me stated, I just hit the delete key when a post doesn't interest me. I don't know anyone well enough to form an opinion as to whether I like someone on the list or not. I think Will does an exemplary job running this list and I sure wouldn't want to see it change its format. My two cents. K.C. K.C. Foggin Socastee Myrtle Beach SC www.birdforum.net www.pbase.com/kcfoggin/nikon_d50_pages&page=15 I love my Kindle Subject: Pea Island and Highway 12 From: Derb Carter <derbc AT selcnc.org> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:19:01 -0500 Just to get the chronology straight, the Pea Island Refuge preceded NC Highway 12 and Bonner Bridge: Pea Island National Wildlife Refuge was established in 1937 The Refuge lands were acquired from private owners in 1938 Congress authorized an easement for Highway 12 through the Refuge in 1951 Department of the Interior conveyed an easement for Highway 12 to NCDOT in 1954 Bonner Bridge opened to traffic in 1963 Derb S. Carter, Jr. Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge From: "Jim and Ginny" <topsynturvy AT msn.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:53:58 -0500 As for comments that the refuge came after residents and the park and that Pea Island is itself a man made habitat are true. Go to Pea Island site. Read there plan. The ponds and wetlands are indeed man made. As such these features impact the natural flow of things. Just look at the lush vegetation in the park owned area between the villages where there are no man made ponds, no man made wetlands, and more importantly no burning to "discourage woody vegetation". Also with respect to continued construction, not only do we have regular burning which kills wildlife but in the spring the ponds are drained and several big rigs (bigger by far than the equipment used to plow sand) plow the ponds and plant non native vegetation. I really wonder what the area would look like if left alone. Scompton1251, I agree for those who choose to make their homes here or on any other flood plane, it is their responsibility to pay for their own insurance--taxpayers should not have to subsidize my choice. That said, that last big payout was in 2003 (Isabel) with 2004 (Alex) creating some flooding. Quite simply, low lying areas inland have more problems than us. I don't know what you are suggesting--that we kick everyone off of seashore areas and reclaim the land? All we ask is a simple bridge with causeways where needed and to be left alone to live our lives on these islands for as long as is feasible. We will and have survived the hard times without any help from the outside (as we did with Isabel). We are, we need to be a hearty independent lot. All we ask is don't make it harder than it needs to be. Ginny Luizer Buxton, NC (Hatteras Island) ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Lay Cc: carolinabirds AT duke.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge Jeff: Last response and then I'm done on this topic. First, it is not always about money. You and others seem to think that everyone who moved here with the exception of those involved directly in the environment did so "to make a buck". Most all of us, whether bankers, lawyers, teachers or whatever moved here for a variety of reasons, most importantly the proximity to water and nature. We fish, surf, kite board, hunt, beach comb, swim, kayak and sail. That we also make a living, as you do also, is not a valid reason to put us in a box. The tax base sustains this county, and it predated the arrival of the Park Service and the environmental movement. As you well know from David Stick's remarkable history of the area, the sand dunes and the development of the tourist industry was a primary objective of county leaders in the 1930's and 1940's, which is one reason the FDR Administration funded the building of the dune line along the seashore. The argument that Pea Island was an ancient refuge is specious. One can construct that argument in any place human beings gather, including those posting here from Raleigh, Greenville, SC and anywhere else. Those areas also hosted wild life in days of yore, and I suspect the people posting from those areas have jobs, worry about the local tax base, drive cars, eat bread (from farms that replaced the great midwest grasslands) and in general, disrupt the natural order of things. I suspect their furniture is made from the harvest of forests, their power from the coal stripped from mountains and mines. If you want to make an Amish argument for a halt to progress, then let's all be Amish. Or we can move into log cabins, ride horses, or even reside in caves. I may not share your exact views on protecting the environment here, but you don't have the right to assume my motives, or anyone else's are exclusively mercenary. Dare County is something like 70% owned by Federal and State government. I can't even name all of the places set aside for wildlife, but they include the Alligator River, much of East Like, Pea Island, the Hatteras National Seashore, Oregon Inlet, Bodie Island (both sides of the road), Hatteras Woods, Kitty Hawk Woods, the north end of Roanoke Island, Jockey's Ridge, the entire stretch of beach from Bodie Island south to, and including Ocracoke Island; Nags Head Woods, the Audubon lands in Duck/Sanderling/Currituck, lands on the 4WD area of Currituck, the Wright Memorial, the woods and dune system around First Flight High School. It does not include the Navy/AF bombing ranges, which are undeveloped and protect species by law, the non-government beaches in the rest of Dare and Currituck, private farms on the mainland, golf courses, municipal parks, and even school grounds that provide green space, and several other areas such as your own place of employment. It excludes the Army Corp pier/beach in Duck, the new Jeanette Pier area, the Aquarium Lands. Exactly how much development do you condemn. It seems to me Dare has given the vast majority of its "commercial" potential over to other concerns, and most of us are happy to support that cause. But enough can be enough. Russ Lay Nags Head Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge From: Russ Lay <russlay AT embarqmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:19:53 -0500 Jeff: Last response and then I'm done on this topic. First, it is not always about money. You and others seem to think that everyone who moved here with the exception of those involved directly in the environment did so "to make a buck". Most all of us, whether bankers, lawyers, teachers or whatever moved here for a variety of reasons, most importantly the proximity to water and nature. We fish, surf, kite board, hunt, beach comb, swim, kayak and sail. That we also make a living, as you do also, is not a valid reason to put us in a box. The tax base sustains this county, and it predated the arrival of the Park Service and the environmental movement. As you well know from David Stick's remarkable history of the area, the sand dunes and the development of the tourist industry was a primary objective of county leaders in the 1930's and 1940's, which is one reason the FDR Administration funded the building of the dune line along the seashore. The argument that Pea Island was an ancient refuge is specious. One can construct that argument in any place human beings gather, including those posting here from Raleigh, Greenville, SC and anywhere else. Those areas also hosted wild life in days of yore, and I suspect the people posting from those areas have jobs, worry about the local tax base, drive cars, eat bread (from farms that replaced the great midwest grasslands) and in general, disrupt the natural order of things. I suspect their furniture is made from the harvest of forests, their power from the coal stripped from mountains and mines. If you want to make an Amish argument for a halt to progress, then let's all be Amish. Or we can move into log cabins, ride horses, or even reside in caves. I may not share your exact views on protecting the environment here, but you don't have the right to assume my motives, or anyone else's are exclusively mercenary. Dare County is something like 70% owned by Federal and State government. I can't even name all of the places set aside for wildlife, but they include the Alligator River, much of East Like, Pea Island, the Hatteras National Seashore, Oregon Inlet, Bodie Island (both sides of the road), Hatteras Woods, Kitty Hawk Woods, the north end of Roanoke Island, Jockey's Ridge, the entire stretch of beach from Bodie Island south to, and including Ocracoke Island; Nags Head Woods, the Audubon lands in Duck/Sanderling/Currituck, lands on the 4WD area of Currituck, the Wright Memorial, the woods and dune system around First Flight High School. It does not include the Navy/AF bombing ranges, which are undeveloped and protect species by law, the non-government beaches in the rest of Dare and Currituck, private farms on the mainland, golf courses, municipal parks, and even school grounds that provide green space, and several other areas such as your own place of employment. It excludes the Army Corp pier/beach in Duck, the new Jeanette Pier area, the Aquarium Lands. Exactly how much development do you condemn. It seems to me Dare has given the vast majority of its "commercial" potential over to other concerns, and most of us are happy to support that cause. But enough can be enough. Russ Lay Nags Head Subject: Fw: Bonner Bridge From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" <patteson1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:51:17 -0500 I've been told I had the wrong date on my message so here goes again in an effort to get it placed in sequence. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" To: "jeff lewis" ; "carolinabirds" Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 9:37 AM Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge > Jeff, > > I'm not sure what you mean by ignorance. Ignorance could be ignoring > the consequences one plan of action has for Pea Island. What happens > when the road is gone, dunes are breached and the sea water comes into > the impoundments at Pea Island?. Won't those birds go looking for a > less saline environment then? Would it not be good to have impoundments > for them somewhere they would not get shot at on a regular basis (the > ducks). Or is Fish and Wildlife going to run the heavy equipment like > NCDOT and battle the sea full time??? I doubt that is in their budget. > As far as I am concerned, what is Pea Island w/o those waterfowl > impoundments? It is the Cape Hatteras Seashore w/ a different name run > by another agency, but w/ even more limited access to the American > Taxpayer. Basically none if there is no road. But there won't be so > many ducks to see anyhow. It's not the idea that "the birds CAN go > someplace else." They WILL go someplace else, wherever they find > suitable habitat. Maybe that place is baited and shot, maybe not. > > And What do we Do if we cannot make a Living? Do we continue to live? > Give us a break. Do the scientists and biologists and environmental > lawyers not get paid? I reckon they do. More than many of us, I bet. > > What would be your plans for living w/o money? > > Brian Patteson > Hatteras > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jeff lewis" > To: "carolinabirds" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:35 PM > Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge > > > > Personally, I can't think of a "birdier" topic than Pea Island and its > future. > > > > To make a correction, Pea Island has served as a refuge for wildlife > far longer than man has ever been on the island! This area should always > be allowed to perform this most important function, whether there are > man-made inpoundments or not. It is ignorant to say things like "let the > birds go someplace else" or "build the refuge somewhere else." We have > got to learn to work around the wildlife, not visa versa. > > > > We may have our own ideas about who we can trust and believe when > dealing with such important issues as this - but one thing is for > certain - you cannot trust those who merely have a financial interest in > any given issue. Money warps good judgement. I for one certainly trust > our scientists and wildlife biologists and the organizations that are > dedicated to speaking up on behalf of wildlife far more than I would > ever trust people that are either trying to increase the local tax base > or are just out to make a buck. > > > > Bottom line - There is absolutely nothing more important than > protecting the environment and the wildlife that inhabit this planet! > No, not even "making a living"! People have got to stop selling out > nature in the name of so-called "progress." Does everything always have > to be about money - it makes me sick!!!!! > > > > Jeff Lewis > > Manteo, NC > > > > > > --- On Wed, 11/18/09, Russ Lay wrote: > > > > > From: Russ Lay > > > Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge > > > To: > > > Cc: carolinabirds AT duke.edu > > > Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 12:20 PM > > > Becky: > > > > > > I understand your side of the issue. But, given the often > > > one-sided points of view out there, I sometimes feel the > > > birding community is only aware of half the story. > > > > > > The existence of Hwy 12 predates the refuge. So, in our > > > opinion as locals, the refuge needs to deal with the road, > > > not the other way around. And, as you must know, the refuge > > > is not natural; it consists of man made lakes and dikes and > > > water control systems to artificially manipulate the water > > > levels to attract birds. I find it difficult to understand > > > how one man made structure is better than another and I > > > suspect many birders think the Pea Island refuge is some > > > sort of natural phenomena. > > > > > > The cost concerns of $1 billion for the long bridge vs. the > > > short bridge are nothing to sneeze at. There are other > > > issues. The stability of the short bridge and Oregon Inlet > > > itself could be remedied by a groin on the north end. Of > > > course, this is opposed by all environmental concerns also. > > > We were told by the Feds that if the long bridge was built, > > > the south end groin would be removed, which would result in > > > the silting of the inlet. We use that inlet for local > > > boating, commercial fishing, sport fishing industries, and > > > even boat builders and ship repair facilities. Likewise, we > > > were told Hwy 12 itself would be abandoned. The north end of > > > Pea Island is a tourist destination; it attracts surfers > > > from all over the world and surf fishermen, The refuge > > > itself is a big economic draw and no one has discussed how > > > it would be accessible. > > > > > > The long bridge also would disturb significant amounts of > > > the sound. You will be hard pressed to convince me a miles > > > long bridge would not disrupt the environment with the > > > barges, fuel spills, concrete, rebar, and pilings. Very hard > > > to imagine. There is also significant concerns about > > > accidents on such a long, two-lane bridge in the case of > > > hurricanes and on weekends--how do we get crews out there > > > quickly and efficiently. Try going through any of the > > > Norfolk-Hampton tunnels in an evacuation or even on a normal > > > day when there is a serious accident. > > > > > > Appreciate the sentiments of your last sentence. Yes, we > > > chose to live here and put up with the perils. But that > > > doesn't mean that the way we choose to solve our problems > > > should be dictated by what Derb Carter, the Audubon, the > > > Defenders of Wildlfe, the Park Service and others.That is > > > where the debate lies for locals--we feel, including Dare > > > County government how best to deal with these problems. > > > > > > Russ Lay > > > Nags Head, NC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Fw: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" <patteson1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:48:24 -0500 I've been told I had the wrong date on my message so here goes again in an effort to get it placed in sequence. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" To: "Jess Gorzo" ; Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 9:04 AM Subject: Re: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List > Jessica, > > I'm w/ brother Ric in believing the delete key seems to work for many, > but not all of us. I routinely delete messages about backyard birds if > my time is limited, or if I do not care for the poster. I am sure there > are people who have no interest in pelagic trips or local rarities and > they delete my messages about such. Fair enough. In all truth, the > thread in question probably should not have started. It was a stretch > to say the least, but once it got rolling, some of us felt strongly that > there were some viewpoints that should be aired. I did address the > birds when I got into it, but I have been the only one to do so. But I > do not think all these people should be banished from posting. Most are > valuable contributors to the forum, whether or not you think the present > arrangement is the best way to facilitate discussion. So that's how > they do it up north? That's also how a lot of the fishing forums run, > but those are pretty liberal in what gets discussed. If the logistics > of getting to Hatteras (to go fishing) are an issue, no one blinks. As > for birds, November is an excellent time for vagrant passerines and > other wayward birds on the Dare County coast. What better time to visit > Oregon Inlet, Pea Island and Cape Hatteras and see first hand the > coastal environment, including natural features and man-made > impoundments, and see how it all lines up. > > Brian Patteson > Hatteras, NC > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jess Gorzo" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:06 PM > Subject: ATTN: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List > > > > Hello, > > > > I would have to agree with the recommendation that guidelines be > enforced on the list. The solution is that moderators need to define the > consequences of not following the rules stated on the page, and enforce > those rules. Everyone agreed to the rules on the list before they > subscribed, so breaching those violates the terms of use. The list in my > home state, MD Osprey, has the same, if not stricter guidelines, and > violation can get you removed from the list. If you would like to see an > example of said smoothly running list, see the archives here: > http://mdosprey.org > > > > The current discussions are useful, but better carried out on a > message board. It's a better format, because threads can be clearly > followed, and the participants can chose to read or not, without having > unwanted mail delivered to the in-box of those uninterested in > participating. I'm here to read about what birds you saw when and where, > which is the stated purpose of this list. Before you send, think about > who wants to read it. If the email is better directed to a small group > of people or one person, please send to that audience. (Or if perhaps > you rethink it and no one would want to read it, don't send :0) > > > > > > Grace be with you, > > Jessica Gorzo (West Friendship, MD) > > > > > > > > > Subject: Fw: Bonner Bridge From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" <patteson1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:47:44 -0500 I've been told I had the wrong date on my message so here goes again in an effort to get it placed in sequence. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" To: "Quent Lupton" ; Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 6:52 AM Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge > Quent, > > I was thinking the same thing when I got into the non-bird thread. I > know the previous postings made not mention of birds but my posting did > relate (in part) to birds wintering at Pea Island, and I did make note > of them in regard to taking the road away. Did you read what I wrote? > Sorry about the off-topic part, but some clarification was needed about > short-sighted Dare County's opposition to the Long Bridge which would > pretty much put an end to birding at Pea Island NWR, a popular > destination for birds and birders as well as a conservation area for > many types of flora and fauna. > > My front yard, on Hatteras Island, presently has Myrtle, Western Palm, > and Orange-crowned Warblers, all common winter residents here. No > binoculars necessary. > > Brian Patteson > Hatteras, NC > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Quent Lupton" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:20 PM > Subject: RE: Bonner Bridge > > > > Hey all, > The few times I have posted on this listserve have related to > conservation, not birds/birding. So I think I have violated the spirit > of the forum. As a group, I think we should all review the Posting > Guidelines (partially copied below; full version at > http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/cbirds.html ). > Personally, I enjoy the conservation arguments, but I want this > listserve to be helpful and interesting to everybody. Do the guidelines > need to be expanded, or do we need to better police our posts? (I > realize that opening up this thread is contradictory to the guidelines I > am trying to stress). > Posting GuidlinesWhen sending messages to Carolinabirds, please:Only > post messages with subject matter that relates directly to birds and > birding in the Carolinas. Try to avoid discussing related subjects such > as hunting, cats, politics, and general conservation issues. While these > are important topics, there are many newsgroups and other forums where > these can be discussed. Carolinabirds needs to maintain its focus for it > to remain useful. > To close this email and better contribute, I was going to give a bird > sighting report from my office window, but there isn't so much as a > European Starling that I can see (the is a crane, but not the avian > type). Sorry. > > > Quent Lupton > Greenville, NC > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > From: patteson1 AT embarqmail.com > > To: paper_airplane AT hotmail.com; carolinabirds AT duke.edu > > Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge > > Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 06:55:53 -0400 > > > > Becky et al., > > > > Pea Island NWR is a great place no doubt, but the impoundments there > are > > as artificial as the NC 12 and the man made dunes protecting that > road. > > Yet people talk about it as if it were a virgin forest. And that dune > > line ironically keeps the ocean out of North Pond, New Field, and > South > > Pond. A great fuss has been made about Pea Island NWR, but it is not > a > > natural feature in its present state, so why should it trump the > > highway? If you take the road away from it w/ the "long bridge", how > > long before nature takes its course w/ those impoundments? The birds > > that use those ponds now will go elsewhere when Salt Water fills them > > up. > > > > Also, a long bridge has some issues from a safety standpoint. Before > a > > parallel span was built for the CBBT in Va., there was a big growing > > problem w/ head on collisons because of the facing traffic flow. It's > a > > shame that some people have to die b/c others fall asleep at the > wheel. > > And what about increased water pollution from all the greasy run-off > > from a much longer bridge transiting the Pamlico Sound miles from > Oregon > > Inlet? The "Long Bridge" idea is far from perfect. And that could be > > why it has met such opposition here. The fact that the Bonner Bridge > > has lasted nearly 50 (not 10) years could be another reason. > > > > Brian Patteson > > Hatteras, NC > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Becky Desjardins" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:58 AM > > Subject: Bonner Bridge > > > > > > > > Its really a shame that the NCDOT and Dare county decided to replace > the > > Bonner Bridge with the short version. Many, many studies showed that > > this was the wrong course of action if North Carolina wants to keep > Pea > > Island in existence. I wrote a number of letters to politicians and > > folks at the DOT in favor of the long bridge to no avail. > > > > I guess we'll have to say good bye to Pea Island as we know it. And > we > > get a new Bonner Bridge, that will probably be safe for, oh, 10 years > by > > the time its all completed. Why does Dare County think building > bridges > > literally on shifting sand is a good permanent course of action? > > > > I understand that Outer Banks residents can't rely on ferries and have > > to have a road to get to hospitals, veterinarians, and other services. > > And I am sorry that your lives get disrupted when storms come through. > > You must feel that it is worth it to live in such a wild, beautiful > > place. And you must have known that this was the price you pay when > you > > moved there. > > > > Becky D, Raleigh > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. > > > http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009 > > > > Subject: Fw: Bonner Bridge From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" <patteson1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:47:32 -0500 I've been told I had the wrong date on my message so here goes again in an effort to get it placed in sequence. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" To: "Becky Desjardins" ; Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 5:55 AM Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge > Becky et al., > > Pea Island NWR is a great place no doubt, but the impoundments there are > as artificial as the NC 12 and the man made dunes protecting that road. > Yet people talk about it as if it were a virgin forest. And that dune > line ironically keeps the ocean out of North Pond, New Field, and South > Pond. A great fuss has been made about Pea Island NWR, but it is not a > natural feature in its present state, so why should it trump the > highway? If you take the road away from it w/ the "long bridge", how > long before nature takes its course w/ those impoundments? The birds > that use those ponds now will go elsewhere when Salt Water fills them > up. > > Also, a long bridge has some issues from a safety standpoint. Before a > parallel span was built for the CBBT in Va., there was a big growing > problem w/ head on collisons because of the facing traffic flow. It's a > shame that some people have to die b/c others fall asleep at the wheel. > And what about increased water pollution from all the greasy run-off > from a much longer bridge transiting the Pamlico Sound miles from Oregon > Inlet? The "Long Bridge" idea is far from perfect. And that could be > why it has met such opposition here. The fact that the Bonner Bridge > has lasted nearly 50 (not 10) years could be another reason. > > Brian Patteson > Hatteras, NC > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Becky Desjardins" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:58 AM > Subject: Bonner Bridge > > > > Its really a shame that the NCDOT and Dare county decided to replace the > Bonner Bridge with the short version. Many, many studies showed that > this was the wrong course of action if North Carolina wants to keep Pea > Island in existence. I wrote a number of letters to politicians and > folks at the DOT in favor of the long bridge to no avail. > > I guess we'll have to say good bye to Pea Island as we know it. And we > get a new Bonner Bridge, that will probably be safe for, oh, 10 years by > the time its all completed. Why does Dare County think building bridges > literally on shifting sand is a good permanent course of action? > > I understand that Outer Banks residents can't rely on ferries and have > to have a road to get to hospitals, veterinarians, and other services. > And I am sorry that your lives get disrupted when storms come through. > You must feel that it is worth it to live in such a wild, beautiful > place. And you must have known that this was the price you pay when you > moved there. > > Becky D, Raleigh > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. > http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009 > Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" <patteson1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 10:37:13 -0400 Jeff, I'm not sure what you mean by ignorance. Ignorance could be ignoring the consequences one plan of action has for Pea Island. What happens when the road is gone, dunes are breached and the sea water comes into the impoundments at Pea Island?. Won't those birds go looking for a less saline environment then? Would it not be good to have impoundments for them somewhere they would not get shot at on a regular basis (the ducks). Or is Fish and Wildlife going to run the heavy equipment like NCDOT and battle the sea full time. I doubt that is in their budget. As far as I am concerned, what is Pea Island w/o those waterfowl impoundments? It is the Cape Hatteras Seashore w/ a different name run by another agency, but w/ even more limited access to the American Taxpayer. Basically none if there is no road. But there won't be so many ducks to see anyhow. It's not the idea that "the birds can go someplace else." They WILL go someplace else, wherever they find suitable habitat. Maybe that place is baited and shot, maybe not. And What do we Do if we cannot make a Living? Do we continue to live? Give us a break. Do the scientists and biologists and environmental lawyers not get paid? I reckon they do. More than many of us, I bet. What would be your plans for living w/o money? Brian Patteson Hatteras ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff lewis" To: "carolinabirds" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:35 PM Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge > Personally, I can't think of a "birdier" topic than Pea Island and its future. > > To make a correction, Pea Island has served as a refuge for wildlife far longer than man has ever been on the island! This area should always be allowed to perform this most important function, whether there are man-made inpoundments or not. It is ignorant to say things like "let the birds go someplace else" or "build the refuge somewhere else." We have got to learn to work around the wildlife, not visa versa. > > We may have our own ideas about who we can trust and believe when dealing with such important issues as this - but one thing is for certain - you cannot trust those who merely have a financial interest in any given issue. Money warps good judgement. I for one certainly trust our scientists and wildlife biologists and the organizations that are dedicated to speaking up on behalf of wildlife far more than I would ever trust people that are either trying to increase the local tax base or are just out to make a buck. > > Bottom line - There is absolutely nothing more important than protecting the environment and the wildlife that inhabit this planet! No, not even "making a living"! People have got to stop selling out nature in the name of so-called "progress." Does everything always have to be about money - it makes me sick!!!!! > > Jeff Lewis > Manteo, NC > > > --- On Wed, 11/18/09, Russ Lay wrote: > > > From: Russ Lay > > Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge > > To: > > Cc: carolinabirds AT duke.edu > > Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 12:20 PM > > Becky: > > > > I understand your side of the issue. But, given the often > > one-sided points of view out there, I sometimes feel the > > birding community is only aware of half the story. > > > > The existence of Hwy 12 predates the refuge. So, in our > > opinion as locals, the refuge needs to deal with the road, > > not the other way around. And, as you must know, the refuge > > is not natural; it consists of man made lakes and dikes and > > water control systems to artificially manipulate the water > > levels to attract birds. I find it difficult to understand > > how one man made structure is better than another and I > > suspect many birders think the Pea Island refuge is some > > sort of natural phenomena. > > > > The cost concerns of $1 billion for the long bridge vs. the > > short bridge are nothing to sneeze at. There are other > > issues. The stability of the short bridge and Oregon Inlet > > itself could be remedied by a groin on the north end. Of > > course, this is opposed by all environmental concerns also. > > We were told by the Feds that if the long bridge was built, > > the south end groin would be removed, which would result in > > the silting of the inlet. We use that inlet for local > > boating, commercial fishing, sport fishing industries, and > > even boat builders and ship repair facilities. Likewise, we > > were told Hwy 12 itself would be abandoned. The north end of > > Pea Island is a tourist destination; it attracts surfers > > from all over the world and surf fishermen, The refuge > > itself is a big economic draw and no one has discussed how > > it would be accessible. > > > > The long bridge also would disturb significant amounts of > > the sound. You will be hard pressed to convince me a miles > > long bridge would not disrupt the environment with the > > barges, fuel spills, concrete, rebar, and pilings. Very hard > > to imagine. There is also significant concerns about > > accidents on such a long, two-lane bridge in the case of > > hurricanes and on weekends--how do we get crews out there > > quickly and efficiently. Try going through any of the > > Norfolk-Hampton tunnels in an evacuation or even on a normal > > day when there is a serious accident. > > > > Appreciate the sentiments of your last sentence. Yes, we > > chose to live here and put up with the perils. But that > > doesn't mean that the way we choose to solve our problems > > should be dictated by what Derb Carter, the Audubon, the > > Defenders of Wildlfe, the Park Service and others.That is > > where the debate lies for locals--we feel, including Dare > > County government how best to deal with these problems. > > > > Russ Lay > > Nags Head, NC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Cumberland County CBC compiler? counters? From: "birdranger" <cbockhahn4 AT earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:30:44 -0500 Well it doesn't hurt to ask. This CBC was run from 99-106 then stopped. Any area birders interested in helping if we get it re-started???? Clark Park, Cape Fear Botanical Gardens, Cape Fear Trail and the new Carvers Creek State Park are among the sites inside the circle and listed in the piedmont trail guide for the NC birding trail. Brian Bockhahn Falls Lake State Park Ranger Falls & Kerr Lake CBC Compiler cbockhahn4 AT earthlink.net Subject: Pea Island and local birds From: "Karen Bearden" <chickadeebirders AT earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:21:28 -0500 Howdy! It's been a while since I've posted to Carolinabirds (which I really love and appreciate--thanks Will!!), but first I wanted to say, YEAH JEFF!!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (One more exclamation point for Harry!) When Joe and I were at Pea Island last month I was DELIGHTED when Walker pointed out a Roseate Spoonbill to the group!!! It was the Roseate Spoonbills at Ding Darling NWR that hooked us into birding 20 years ago, so I was thrilled to add it to our NC list. Last weekend I was happy to see two Brown Creepers on two short birdwalks along greenway trails in Raleigh both Saturday and Sunday. Sometimes we'll miss seeing them during the winter season, so it was fun seeing a pair two days in a row. I'm very happy to have the White-throated Sparrows and juncos return to our yard and the Raleigh area. I've also seen small flocks of Cedar Waxwings flying over. Still looking for Hermit Thrush and Winter Wrens! On Saturday we birded at Prairie Ridge off Blue Ridge Rd. in Raleigh. A shrike, stunning views of a Red-tailed Hawk soaring with the sunlight in the background, four sparrow species, both kinglets, and of course, chickadees, were some of the highlights! I've become an advocate for protecting the Earth because of my love for birds!!!! Happy birding!!! Peace, Karen Bearden Raleigh, NC Subject: Henderson Cty., NC and Buncombe Cty., NC From: "wforsythe" <wforsythe AT morrisbb.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:21:53 -0500 Folks, This post is about birds and birding, so please don't hit the delete key! After another inch of rainfall hitting the mountains of WNC, there has been a very nice movement of waterfowl. This morning I had 2 Common Loons, 1 Ring-billed Gull and 1 female Greater Scaup on the Water Treatment pond on Rt.# 191 in Henderson County. A most unusual group of waterfowl for such a small, man made pond. I then went to Lake Julian in Buncombe County. Upon my arrival, the lake was viewable. As I walked to the picnic shelter with my bins I was delighted to see some very large rafts of waterfowl. There was a huge raft of Common Loons and several other large rafts of ducks. I turned around, got my scope from the truck and as I walked the short distance back to the picnic shelter, the wind started to blow, rain began to fall and in a matter of moments, the lake was almost totally fogged in. I hung around for about 1/2 hour and the conditions stayed pretty much the same. When the wind eased up, you could get some brief glimpses of some of the birds present. I would say there were at least 150+ Common Loons, Redheads, Red-breasted Mergansers, Mallards, and Scaup species. I just wish I could have gone through all the birds, there may have been a few year birds waiting to be found! On the way back to Hendersonville, I again checked the Water Treatment pond and the number of Common Loons had grown to 13! Best regards, Wayne Wayne K. Forsythe Hendersonville, N. C. 828-697-6628 wforsythe AT morrisbb dot net Subject: Re: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" <patteson1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 10:04:04 -0400 Jessica, I'm w/ brother Ric in believing the delete key seems to work for many, but not all of us. I routinely delete messages about backyard birds if my time is limited, or if I do not care for the poster. I am sure there are people who have no interest in pelagic trips or local rarities and they delete my messages about such. Fair enough. In all truth, the thread in question probably should not have started. It was a stretch to say the least, but once it got rolling, some of us felt strongly that there were some viewpoints that should be aired. I did address the birds when I got into it, but I have been the only one to do so. But I do not think all these people should be banished from posting. Most are valuable contributors to the forum, whether or not you think the present arrangement is the best way to facilitate discussion. So that's how they do it up north? That's also how a lot of the fishing forums run, but those are pretty liberal in what gets discussed. If the logistics of getting to Hatteras (to go fishing) are an issue, no one blinks. As for birds, November is an excellent time for vagrant passerines and other wayward birds on the Dare County coast. What better time to visit Oregon Inlet, Pea Island and Cape Hatteras and see first hand the coastal environment, including natural features and man-made impoundments, and see how it all lines up. Brian Patteson Hatteras, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jess Gorzo" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:06 PM Subject: ATTN: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List > Hello, > > I would have to agree with the recommendation that guidelines be enforced on the list. The solution is that moderators need to define the consequences of not following the rules stated on the page, and enforce those rules. Everyone agreed to the rules on the list before they subscribed, so breaching those violates the terms of use. The list in my home state, MD Osprey, has the same, if not stricter guidelines, and violation can get you removed from the list. If you would like to see an example of said smoothly running list, see the archives here: http://mdosprey.org > > The current discussions are useful, but better carried out on a message board. It's a better format, because threads can be clearly followed, and the participants can chose to read or not, without having unwanted mail delivered to the in-box of those uninterested in participating. I'm here to read about what birds you saw when and where, which is the stated purpose of this list. Before you send, think about who wants to read it. If the email is better directed to a small group of people or one person, please send to that audience. (Or if perhaps you rethink it and no one would want to read it, don't send :0) > > > Grace be with you, > Jessica Gorzo (West Friendship, MD) > > > > Subject: Cedar Waxwings are back From: "Daniel Hueholt" <jasjedi AT bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:41:02 -0500 Cedar Waxwings have arrived in the Wilmington area right on time-there were 30 of them at Airlie Gardens today. Daniel Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge From: jeff lewis <jlewis_obx AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:35:54 -0800 (PST) Personally, I can't think of a "birdier" topic than Pea Island and its future. To make a correction, Pea Island has served as a refuge for wildlife far longer than man has ever been on the island! This area should always be allowed to perform this most important function, whether there are man-made inpoundments or not. It is ignorant to say things like "let the birds go someplace else" or "build the refuge somewhere else." We have got to learn to work around the wildlife, not visa versa. We may have our own ideas about who we can trust and believe when dealing with such important issues as this - but one thing is for certain - you cannot trust those who merely have a financial interest in any given issue. Money warps good judgement. I for one certainly trust our scientists and wildlife biologists and the organizations that are dedicated to speaking up on behalf of wildlife far more than I would ever trust people that are either trying to increase the local tax base or are just out to make a buck. Bottom line - There is absolutely nothing more important than protecting the environment and the wildlife that inhabit this planet! No, not even "making a living"! People have got to stop selling out nature in the name of so-called "progress." Does everything always have to be about money - it makes me sick!!!!! Jeff Lewis Manteo, NC --- On Wed, 11/18/09, Russ Lay wrote: > From: Russ Lay > Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge > To: > Cc: carolinabirds AT duke.edu > Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 12:20 PM > Becky: > > I understand your side of the issue. But, given the often > one-sided points of view out there, I sometimes feel the > birding community is only aware of half the story. > > The existence of Hwy 12 predates the refuge. So, in our > opinion as locals, the refuge needs to deal with the road, > not the other way around. And, as you must know, the refuge > is not natural; it consists of man made lakes and dikes and > water control systems to artificially manipulate the water > levels to attract birds. I find it difficult to understand > how one man made structure is better than another and I > suspect many birders think the Pea Island refuge is some > sort of natural phenomena. > > The cost concerns of $1 billion for the long bridge vs. the > short bridge are nothing to sneeze at. There are other > issues. The stability of the short bridge and Oregon Inlet > itself could be remedied by a groin on the north end. Of > course, this is opposed by all environmental concerns also. > We were told by the Feds that if the long bridge was built, > the south end groin would be removed, which would result in > the silting of the inlet. We use that inlet for local > boating, commercial fishing, sport fishing industries, and > even boat builders and ship repair facilities. Likewise, we > were told Hwy 12 itself would be abandoned. The north end of > Pea Island is a tourist destination; it attracts surfers > from all over the world and surf fishermen, The refuge > itself is a big economic draw and no one has discussed how > it would be accessible. > > The long bridge also would disturb significant amounts of > the sound. You will be hard pressed to convince me a miles > long bridge would not disrupt the environment with the > barges, fuel spills, concrete, rebar, and pilings. Very hard > to imagine. There is also significant concerns about > accidents on such a long, two-lane bridge in the case of > hurricanes and on weekends--how do we get crews out there > quickly and efficiently. Try going through any of the > Norfolk-Hampton tunnels in an evacuation or even on a normal > day when there is a serious accident. > > Appreciate the sentiments of your last sentence. Yes, we > chose to live here and put up with the perils. But that > doesn't mean that the way we choose to solve our problems > should be dictated by what Derb Carter, the Audubon, the > Defenders of Wildlfe, the Park Service and others.That is > where the debate lies for locals--we feel, including Dare > County government how best to deal with these problems. > > Russ Lay > Nags Head, NC > > > > Subject: Re: ATTN: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List From: Ric Carter <ricc AT mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:25:10 -0500 Does this qualify as an off-topic discussion? Hitting the delete key... Ric Carter Garner & Little Washington On Nov 18, 2009, at 1:24 PM, Dick Repasky wrote: > > I agree! > > Dick Repasky > Bloomington, Indiana > > Jess Gorzo wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I would have to agree with the recommendation that guidelines be >> enforced on the list. The solution is that moderators need to define the >> consequences of not following the rules stated on the page, and enforce >> those rules. Everyone agreed to the rules on the list before they >> subscribed, so breaching those violates the terms of use. The list in my >> home state, MD Osprey, has the same, if not stricter guidelines, and >> violation can get you removed from the list. If you would like to see an >> example of said smoothly running list, see the archives here: >> http://mdosprey.org >> >> The current discussions are useful, but better carried out on a message >> board. It's a better format, because threads can be clearly followed, >> and the participants can chose to read or not, without having unwanted >> mail delivered to the in-box of those uninterested in participating. I'm >> here to read about what birds you saw when and where, which is the >> stated purpose of this list. Before you send, think about who wants to >> read it. If the email is better directed to a small group of people or >> one person, please send to that audience. (Or if perhaps you rethink it >> and no one would want to read it, don't send :0) >> >> Grace be with you, >> Jessica Gorzo (West Friendship, MD) >> >> Subject: Re: ATTN: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List From: Dick Repasky <dick.repasky AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:24:25 -0500 I agree! Dick Repasky Bloomington, Indiana Jess Gorzo wrote: > > Hello, > > I would have to agree with the recommendation that guidelines be > enforced on the list. The solution is that moderators need to define the > consequences of not following the rules stated on the page, and enforce > those rules. Everyone agreed to the rules on the list before they > subscribed, so breaching those violates the terms of use. The list in my > home state, MD Osprey, has the same, if not stricter guidelines, and > violation can get you removed from the list. If you would like to see an > example of said smoothly running list, see the archives here: > http://mdosprey.org > > The current discussions are useful, but better carried out on a message > board. It's a better format, because threads can be clearly followed, > and the participants can chose to read or not, without having unwanted > mail delivered to the in-box of those uninterested in participating. I'm > here to read about what birds you saw when and where, which is the > stated purpose of this list. Before you send, think about who wants to > read it. If the email is better directed to a small group of people or > one person, please send to that audience. (Or if perhaps you rethink it > and no one would want to read it, don't send :0) > > Grace be with you, > Jessica Gorzo (West Friendship, MD) > > Subject: ATTN: Moderators - Guideline Enforcement on the List From: Jess Gorzo <galaxycoff AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:06:19 -0800 (PST) Hello, I would have to agree with the recommendation that guidelines be enforced on the list. The solution is that moderators need to define the consequences of not following the rules stated on the page, and enforce those rules. Everyone agreed to the rules on the list before they subscribed, so breaching those violates the terms of use. The list in my home state, MD Osprey, has the same, if not stricter guidelines, and violation can get you removed from the list. If you would like to see an example of said smoothly running list, see the archives here: http://mdosprey.org The current discussions are useful, but better carried out on a message board. It's a better format, because threads can be clearly followed, and the participants can chose to read or not, without having unwanted mail delivered to the in-box of those uninterested in participating. I'm here to read about what birds you saw when and where, which is the stated purpose of this list. Before you send, think about who wants to read it. If the email is better directed to a small group of people or one person, please send to that audience. (Or if perhaps you rethink it and no one would want to read it, don't send :0) Grace be with you, Jessica Gorzo (West Friendship, MD) Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge From: Russ Lay <russlay AT embarqmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:20:25 -0500 Becky: I understand your side of the issue. But, given the often one-sided points of view out there, I sometimes feel the birding community is only aware of half the story. The existence of Hwy 12 predates the refuge. So, in our opinion as locals, the refuge needs to deal with the road, not the other way around. And, as you must know, the refuge is not natural; it consists of man made lakes and dikes and water control systems to artificially manipulate the water levels to attract birds. I find it difficult to understand how one man made structure is better than another and I suspect many birders think the Pea Island refuge is some sort of natural phenomena. The cost concerns of $1 billion for the long bridge vs. the short bridge are nothing to sneeze at. There are other issues. The stability of the short bridge and Oregon Inlet itself could be remedied by a groin on the north end. Of course, this is opposed by all environmental concerns also. We were told by the Feds that if the long bridge was built, the south end groin would be removed, which would result in the silting of the inlet. We use that inlet for local boating, commercial fishing, sport fishing industries, and even boat builders and ship repair facilities. Likewise, we were told Hwy 12 itself would be abandoned. The north end of Pea Island is a tourist destination; it attracts surfers from all over the world and surf fishermen, The refuge itself is a big economic draw and no one has discussed how it would be accessible. The long bridge also would disturb significant amounts of the sound. You will be hard pressed to convince me a miles long bridge would not disrupt the environment with the barges, fuel spills, concrete, rebar, and pilings. Very hard to imagine. There is also significant concerns about accidents on such a long, two-lane bridge in the case of hurricanes and on weekends--how do we get crews out there quickly and efficiently. Try going through any of the Norfolk-Hampton tunnels in an evacuation or even on a normal day when there is a serious accident. Appreciate the sentiments of your last sentence. Yes, we chose to live here and put up with the perils. But that doesn't mean that the way we choose to solve our problems should be dictated by what Derb Carter, the Audubon, the Defenders of Wildlfe, the Park Service and others.That is where the debate lies for locals--we feel, including Dare County government how best to deal with these problems. Russ Lay Nags Head, NC Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge From: Ric Carter <ricc AT mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:02:55 -0500 Why not let's just be grownups here who know which conversations we want to engage in which we do not? We potentially get much education from off-topic discussions. Subject lines make it very simple to hit the delete key on any discussion in which we have no interest. Common sense and personal judgement really can be be preferable to a rule book. Ric Carter Garne & Little Washington On Nov 18, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Quent Lupton wrote: > Hey all, > > The few times I have posted on this listserve have related to conservation, not birds/birding. So I think I have violated the spirit of the forum. As a group, I think we should all review the Posting Guidelines (partially copied below; full version at http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/cbirds.html ). > > Personally, I enjoy the conservation arguments, but I want this listserve to be helpful and interesting to everybody. Do the guidelines need to be expanded, or do we need to better police our posts? (I realize that opening up this thread is contradictory to the guidelines I am trying to stress). > > Posting Guidlines > When sending messages to Carolinabirds, please: > • Only post messages with subject matter that relates directly to birds and birding in the Carolinas. Try to avoid discussing related subjects such as hunting, cats, politics, and general conservation issues. While these are important topics, there are many newsgroups and other forums where these can be discussed. Carolinabirds needs to maintain its focus for it to remain useful. > > To close this email and better contribute, I was going to give a bird sighting report from my office window, but there isn't so much as a European Starling that I can see (the is a crane, but not the avian type). Sorry. > > > Quent Lupton > Greenville, NC > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > > From: patteson1 AT embarqmail.com > > To: paper_airplane AT hotmail.com; carolinabirds AT duke.edu > > Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge > > Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 06:55:53 -0400 > > > > Becky et al., > > > > Pea Island NWR is a great place no doubt, but the impoundments there are > > as artificial as the NC 12 and the man made dunes protecting that road. > > Yet people talk about it as if it were a virgin forest. And that dune > > line ironically keeps the ocean out of North Pond, New Field, and South > > Pond. A great fuss has been made about Pea Island NWR, but it is not a > > natural feature in its present state, so why should it trump the > > highway? If you take the road away from it w/ the "long bridge", how > > long before nature takes its course w/ those impoundments? The birds > > that use those ponds now will go elsewhere when Salt Water fills them > > up. > > > > Also, a long bridge has some issues from a safety standpoint. Before a > > parallel span was built for the CBBT in Va., there was a big growing > > problem w/ head on collisons because of the facing traffic flow. It's a > > shame that some people have to die b/c others fall asleep at the wheel. > > And what about increased water pollution from all the greasy run-off > > from a much longer bridge transiting the Pamlico Sound miles from Oregon > > Inlet? The "Long Bridge" idea is far from perfect. And that could be > > why it has met such opposition here. The fact that the Bonner Bridge > > has lasted nearly 50 (not 10) years could be another reason. > > > > Brian Patteson > > Hatteras, NC > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Becky Desjardins" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:58 AM > > Subject: Bonner Bridge > > > > > > > > Its really a shame that the NCDOT and Dare county decided to replace the > > Bonner Bridge with the short version. Many, many studies showed that > > this was the wrong course of action if North Carolina wants to keep Pea > > Island in existence. I wrote a number of letters to politicians and > > folks at the DOT in favor of the long bridge to no avail. > > > > I guess we'll have to say good bye to Pea Island as we know it. And we > > get a new Bonner Bridge, that will probably be safe for, oh, 10 years by > > the time its all completed. Why does Dare County think building bridges > > literally on shifting sand is a good permanent course of action? > > > > I understand that Outer Banks residents can't rely on ferries and have > > to have a road to get to hospitals, veterinarians, and other services. > > And I am sorry that your lives get disrupted when storms come through. > > You must feel that it is worth it to live in such a wild, beautiful > > place. And you must have known that this was the price you pay when you > > moved there. > > > > Becky D, Raleigh > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. > > http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009 > > Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge From: Russ Lay <russlay AT embarqmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:54:20 -0500 Quent: I agree 100%, but I have found the rules to be rather loosely enforced. Just about any issue, from hunting to OLF, ORV's, etc have been allowed to post even though they seem to violate the "rules" of the board. More to the point, I've found there is an assumption on the part of some regular posters that we all belong to the same political party, despise the same politicians, and share 100% the environmental/development/legal issues discussed here. I joined this group for birding tips and such and think the other issues need to part of a separate listserve. It seems as though if you "protest" these posts, there exists some loophole to allow the discussion to continue. And as long as those posts are allowed to continue, others (including me) will feel compelled to respond. Its the primary reason I seldom post or visit here anymore, and is the same reason I quit attending the local bird club meetings since many of the guest speakers spent time on political issues and condemning by name clients, friends and other folks who were involved in various OBX business concerns. Russ Lay Nags Head, NC Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" <patteson1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 07:52:05 -0400 Quent, I was thinking the same thing when I got into the non-bird thread. I know the previous postings made not mention of birds but my posting did relate (in part) to birds wintering at Pea Island, and I did make note of them in regard to taking the road away. Did you read what I wrote? Sorry about the off-topic part, but some clarification was needed about short-sighted Dare County's opposition to the Long Bridge which would pretty much put an end to birding at Pea Island NWR, a popular destination for birds and birders as well as a conservation area for many types of flora and fauna. My front yard, on Hatteras Island, presently has Myrtle, Western Palm, and Orange-crowned Warblers, all common winter residents here. No binoculars necessary. Brian Patteson Hatteras, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Quent Lupton" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:20 PM Subject: RE: Bonner Bridge Hey all, The few times I have posted on this listserve have related to conservation, not birds/birding. So I think I have violated the spirit of the forum. As a group, I think we should all review the Posting Guidelines (partially copied below; full version at http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/cbirds.html ). Personally, I enjoy the conservation arguments, but I want this listserve to be helpful and interesting to everybody. Do the guidelines need to be expanded, or do we need to better police our posts? (I realize that opening up this thread is contradictory to the guidelines I am trying to stress). Posting GuidlinesWhen sending messages to Carolinabirds, please:Only post messages with subject matter that relates directly to birds and birding in the Carolinas. Try to avoid discussing related subjects such as hunting, cats, politics, and general conservation issues. While these are important topics, there are many newsgroups and other forums where these can be discussed. Carolinabirds needs to maintain its focus for it to remain useful. To close this email and better contribute, I was going to give a bird sighting report from my office window, but there isn't so much as a European Starling that I can see (the is a crane, but not the avian type). Sorry. Quent Lupton Greenville, NC EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: patteson1 AT embarqmail.com > To: paper_airplane AT hotmail.com; carolinabirds AT duke.edu > Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge > Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 06:55:53 -0400 > > Becky et al., > > Pea Island NWR is a great place no doubt, but the impoundments there are > as artificial as the NC 12 and the man made dunes protecting that road. > Yet people talk about it as if it were a virgin forest. And that dune > line ironically keeps the ocean out of North Pond, New Field, and South > Pond. A great fuss has been made about Pea Island NWR, but it is not a > natural feature in its present state, so why should it trump the > highway? If you take the road away from it w/ the "long bridge", how > long before nature takes its course w/ those impoundments? The birds > that use those ponds now will go elsewhere when Salt Water fills them > up. > > Also, a long bridge has some issues from a safety standpoint. Before a > parallel span was built for the CBBT in Va., there was a big growing > problem w/ head on collisons because of the facing traffic flow. It's a > shame that some people have to die b/c others fall asleep at the wheel. > And what about increased water pollution from all the greasy run-off > from a much longer bridge transiting the Pamlico Sound miles from Oregon > Inlet? The "Long Bridge" idea is far from perfect. And that could be > why it has met such opposition here. The fact that the Bonner Bridge > has lasted nearly 50 (not 10) years could be another reason. > > Brian Patteson > Hatteras, NC > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Becky Desjardins" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:58 AM > Subject: Bonner Bridge > > > > Its really a shame that the NCDOT and Dare county decided to replace the > Bonner Bridge with the short version. Many, many studies showed that > this was the wrong course of action if North Carolina wants to keep Pea > Island in existence. I wrote a number of letters to politicians and > folks at the DOT in favor of the long bridge to no avail. > > I guess we'll have to say good bye to Pea Island as we know it. And we > get a new Bonner Bridge, that will probably be safe for, oh, 10 years by > the time its all completed. Why does Dare County think building bridges > literally on shifting sand is a good permanent course of action? > > I understand that Outer Banks residents can't rely on ferries and have > to have a road to get to hospitals, veterinarians, and other services. > And I am sorry that your lives get disrupted when storms come through. > You must feel that it is worth it to live in such a wild, beautiful > place. And you must have known that this was the price you pay when you > moved there. > > Becky D, Raleigh > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. > http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009 > Subject: RE: Bonner Bridge From: Quent Lupton <seagull722 AT hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:20:07 -0500 Hey all, The few times I have posted on this listserve have related to conservation, not birds/birding. So I think I have violated the spirit of the forum. As a group, I think we should all review the Posting Guidelines (partially copied below; full version at http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/cbirds.html ). Personally, I enjoy the conservation arguments, but I want this listserve to be helpful and interesting to everybody. Do the guidelines need to be expanded, or do we need to better police our posts? (I realize that opening up this thread is contradictory to the guidelines I am trying to stress). Posting GuidlinesWhen sending messages to Carolinabirds, please:Only post messages with subject matter that relates directly to birds and birding in the Carolinas. Try to avoid discussing related subjects such as hunting, cats, politics, and general conservation issues. While these are important topics, there are many newsgroups and other forums where these can be discussed. Carolinabirds needs to maintain its focus for it to remain useful. To close this email and better contribute, I was going to give a bird sighting report from my office window, but there isn't so much as a European Starling that I can see (the is a crane, but not the avian type). Sorry. Quent Lupton Greenville, NC EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: patteson1 AT embarqmail.com > To: paper_airplane AT hotmail.com; carolinabirds AT duke.edu > Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge > Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 06:55:53 -0400 > > Becky et al., > > Pea Island NWR is a great place no doubt, but the impoundments there are > as artificial as the NC 12 and the man made dunes protecting that road. > Yet people talk about it as if it were a virgin forest. And that dune > line ironically keeps the ocean out of North Pond, New Field, and South > Pond. A great fuss has been made about Pea Island NWR, but it is not a > natural feature in its present state, so why should it trump the > highway? If you take the road away from it w/ the "long bridge", how > long before nature takes its course w/ those impoundments? The birds > that use those ponds now will go elsewhere when Salt Water fills them > up. > > Also, a long bridge has some issues from a safety standpoint. Before a > parallel span was built for the CBBT in Va., there was a big growing > problem w/ head on collisons because of the facing traffic flow. It's a > shame that some people have to die b/c others fall asleep at the wheel. > And what about increased water pollution from all the greasy run-off > from a much longer bridge transiting the Pamlico Sound miles from Oregon > Inlet? The "Long Bridge" idea is far from perfect. And that could be > why it has met such opposition here. The fact that the Bonner Bridge > has lasted nearly 50 (not 10) years could be another reason. > > Brian Patteson > Hatteras, NC > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Becky Desjardins" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:58 AM > Subject: Bonner Bridge > > > > Its really a shame that the NCDOT and Dare county decided to replace the > Bonner Bridge with the short version. Many, many studies showed that > this was the wrong course of action if North Carolina wants to keep Pea > Island in existence. I wrote a number of letters to politicians and > folks at the DOT in favor of the long bridge to no avail. > > I guess we'll have to say good bye to Pea Island as we know it. And we > get a new Bonner Bridge, that will probably be safe for, oh, 10 years by > the time its all completed. Why does Dare County think building bridges > literally on shifting sand is a good permanent course of action? > > I understand that Outer Banks residents can't rely on ferries and have > to have a road to get to hospitals, veterinarians, and other services. > And I am sorry that your lives get disrupted when storms come through. > You must feel that it is worth it to live in such a wild, beautiful > place. And you must have known that this was the price you pay when you > moved there. > > Becky D, Raleigh > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. > http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009 > Subject: Re: Bonner Bridge From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" <patteson1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 06:55:53 -0400 Becky et al., Pea Island NWR is a great place no doubt, but the impoundments there are as artificial as the NC 12 and the man made dunes protecting that road. Yet people talk about it as if it were a virgin forest. And that dune line ironically keeps the ocean out of North Pond, New Field, and South Pond. A great fuss has been made about Pea Island NWR, but it is not a natural feature in its present state, so why should it trump the highway? If you take the road away from it w/ the "long bridge", how long before nature takes its course w/ those impoundments? The birds that use those ponds now will go elsewhere when Salt Water fills them up. Also, a long bridge has some issues from a safety standpoint. Before a parallel span was built for the CBBT in Va., there was a big growing problem w/ head on collisons because of the facing traffic flow. It's a shame that some people have to die b/c others fall asleep at the wheel. And what about increased water pollution from all the greasy run-off from a much longer bridge transiting the Pamlico Sound miles from Oregon Inlet? The "Long Bridge" idea is far from perfect. And that could be why it has met such opposition here. The fact that the Bonner Bridge has lasted nearly 50 (not 10) years could be another reason. Brian Patteson Hatteras, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Becky Desjardins" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:58 AM Subject: Bonner Bridge Its really a shame that the NCDOT and Dare county decided to replace the Bonner Bridge with the short version. Many, many studies showed that this was the wrong course of action if North Carolina wants to keep Pea Island in existence. I wrote a number of letters to politicians and folks at the DOT in favor of the long bridge to no avail. I guess we'll have to say good bye to Pea Island as we know it. And we get a new Bonner Bridge, that will probably be safe for, oh, 10 years by the time its all completed. Why does Dare County think building bridges literally on shifting sand is a good permanent course of action? I understand that Outer Banks residents can't rely on ferries and have to have a road to get to hospitals, veterinarians, and other services. And I am sorry that your lives get disrupted when storms come through. You must feel that it is worth it to live in such a wild, beautiful place. And you must have known that this was the price you pay when you moved there. Becky D, Raleigh _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009 Subject: Bonner Bridge From: Becky Desjardins <paper_airplane AT hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:58:06 +0000 Its really a shame that the NCDOT and Dare county decided to replace the Bonner Bridge with the short version. Many, many studies showed that this was the wrong course of action if North Carolina wants to keep Pea Island in existence. I wrote a number of letters to politicians and folks at the DOT in favor of the long bridge to no avail. I guess we'll have to say good bye to Pea Island as we know it. And we get a new Bonner Bridge, that will probably be safe for, oh, 10 years by the time its all completed. Why does Dare County think building bridges literally on shifting sand is a good permanent course of action? I understand that Outer Banks residents can't rely on ferries and have to have a road to get to hospitals, veterinarians, and other services. And I am sorry that your lives get disrupted when storms come through. You must feel that it is worth it to live in such a wild, beautiful place. And you must have known that this was the price you pay when you moved there. Becky D, Raleigh _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009 Subject: Guilford County Scoter, Hummer, etc. From: Henry Link <linkh AT bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:48:31 -0500 George Wheaton and I found a female Black Scoter near the Lake Brandt marina yesterday afternoon. We also saw an Osprey there and another on Lake Townsend, quite late for Guilford County. On Saturday Lou Skrabec reported 90-100 Green-winged Teal on Lake Brandt at Horsepen Creek . Our lingering backyard Ruby-throated Hummingbird is still at the feeders today. Henry Link Greensboro NC Subject: Re: Swinhoe's Storm-Petrel From: "Mike Tove" <mtove AT deltaforce.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:05:29 -0500 Yes, finally the ABA CLC has accepted Swinhoe's but did anyone notice their stubborn refusal to accept Fea's Petrel? Their excuse this time was due to a proposed (but yet officially unrecognized) split between the Fea's of the Deserta Islands (the birds we see here) and the nominate Fea's from the Cape Verde Archipelago - the CLC wanted to "hold off" until the future species status was accepted (or not). Never mind that the current non-recognition is between Fea's and Zino's which has repeatedly been proven to not be an identification issue - and never mind that the CLC's own rules (not to mention logic) are that they can only make decisions on what is known, not what might or might no be known at some unspecified time in the future. Fea's Petrel stands alone as North America's only regular non-breeding species (Yes, I said regular - they are) which has no official standing on the ABA's official checklist. Over the past 15 years, the CLC's decision (non-decision more accurately) has been driven by the presumption taht we cannot reliably identify these birds to species. In a word nonsense! We've more than adequately documented the birds to species - noe once or twice, but scores, perhaps hundreds of times. We know their preferred offshore habitat (water deph, temperature, etc.), their primary season of occurrence, their age range, how to attract them, how likely it is to see one on any given day. We have multiple days of multiple sightings. We've even clocked their flight speed. We know more about these birds than most (if not all) other North American species which are not specimen-substantiated - and more than some which are supported by a specimen. So why does the ABA CLC persist in such a stubborn position? Ignorance if not arogance. The CLC is headed (dominated) by a few (one?) prominent birder who I don't think has ever seen one. I'll bet hard currency that if this bird was being seen in regularly California (and/or by all CLC members), there would be no controversy. Lest you think I'm "out there" in my ire, I can tell you I've had multiple conversations with Ted Floyd (Editor of Birding) who shares my frustration. Maybe if NC birders emailed Bill Pranty, current CLC Chair urging him and the CLC to do the right thing and accept, once and for all, Fea's Petrel to the North American list, some action will be taken on it. His email is billpranty AT hotmail.com. BTW, if in the future, Fea's and Deserta's Petrels are officially split, the checklist can be modified to reflect that change. It has absolutely nothing to do with Fea's vs. Zino's Petrel - the current "controversy." Besides, even if the CLC wants to wait so they don't have to "change it later," that still doesn't make sense because the current split decision would change from "Fea's/Zino's" to "Fea's/Deserta's/Zino's." C'mon Carolina Birders. Help out with this one. Fea's Petrel is "our bird." Let's get it officially recognized. Write to Bill Pranty. Mike Tove Cary, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: Clyde Smith To: carolinabirds AT duke.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Swinhoe's Storm-Petrel The Swinhoe's Storm-Petrel has been accepted as a new species by the ABA Checklist Committee based on a photo taken by Steve Howell on a Brian Patteson pelagic trip June 2, 2008. See link below for the Annual Report of the Committee. Clyde Smith Raleigh, NC http://www.aba.org/birding/v41n6p38.pdf !DSPAM:4b02e53e187471630915547! = Subject: Re: Pea Island and Bonner Bridge From: <scompton1251 AT charter.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:58:52 -0800 Derb and others concerned about our Carolina beaches, I respectfully disagree. Barrier islands along the Carolina coast are geologically unstable, shifting sands that are incompatible with permanent structures and associated human habitation. As geologist Oren Pilkey has taught us-it is a waste of taxpayer money to subsidize such structures by Federal programs such as flood insurance subsidies and tax supported programs to build the infrastructure needed to support homes and retail businesses in these areas. Better we return these beaches to the uses Nature intended, let them shift as they will (despite our puny efforts to "nourish" beaches and so on), and enjoy them with access from boats. Steve Compton Greenville,SC ---- Derb Carter wrote: > Visitors to and residents of Hatteras Island deserve a dependable transportation route. There is no dispute the aging Bonner Bridge needs to be replaced. The current NCDOT plan is to replace the bridge at its current location and ignore the rapidly eroding shorelines south through Pea Island Refuge to Rodanthe. The recent storm that has predictably overwashed portions of Highway 12 through Pea Island Refuge is Mother Nature's comment on that plan. It has created North Carolina's own bridge to nowhere. The storm events that will overwash Highway 12, , likely open new inlets, destroy the current road, and disrupt transportation will only accelerate with sea level rise. Dr. Stan Riggs at ECU has just published an article identifying the locations of five areas between Oregon Inlet and Rodanthe that have a high (annual) or intermediate (annual-decadal) likelihood of becoming new inlets, including the area just north of Rodanthe currently overwashed. > > In 2005, state and federal agencies including NCDOT and Federal Highways UNANIMOUSLY recommended replacing the Bonner Bridge with a longer bridge that would swing out into Pamlico Sound, bypass the eroding beaches on the refuge and come in at the first village Rodanthe. The agencies concluded the longer bridge is the dependable transportation option with the least environmentally damaging practicable alternative (legal terms for the right thing to do) If the plan had moved forward at that time, under the proposed schedule the bridge would be nearing completion with an opening to traffic planned for Spring of 2010, within a few months. Unfortunately, Dare County objected to the plan, claiming it was too expensive and under political pressure NCDOT withdrew its support. It is of note that since that time NCDOT has found a way to build a brand new $700 million toll bridge across Currituck Sound to the northern Outer Banks, which pales in comparison to the need to replace Bonner Bridge. > > The current NCDOT plan to replace Bonner Bridge would make Pea Island National Wildlife Refuge, as parts of it are we speak, a perpetual construction zone. As the beach predictably erodes, "emergencies" will be declared to plow the road further through the refuge, including the historic impoundments that host thousands of waterfowl and shorebirds each year. The dune line will be sandbagged as it now is at the S curves. Sand will be dumped on the beaches in a futile attempt to fight the ocean. The US Fish & Wildlife Service must find that all these predictable activities on National Wildlife Refuge property are compatible with the purpose of the refuge under federal law: a refuge for waterfowl, nesting sea turtles, and other wildlife. The Fish & Wildlife Service has said you can have a wildlife refuge or a perpetual highway construction zone, but you can't have both. In trying carry out their legal mandate to protect the refuge, they have been vilified. > > If you go to Pea Island now, at the end of the south impoundment you will pass some maintenance buildings on the ocean side. That is the old Pea Island headquarters. Many of us remember, and it was not too long ago, that the highway passed on the ocean side of those buildings. These buildings were impacted by the eroding shoreline from the storm and I understand may now be removed. The ocean marches on. > > In addition to the adverse environmental and refuge impacts, re-building the Bonner Bridge at its current location is a short-sighted disservice to the residents of Hatteras Island. As this storm illustrates, it is of little value to have a bridge you can not get to. They deserve more. The longer bridge bypassing the refuge, the eroding hot spots, and future inlet areas that was unanimously agreed to by all state and federal agencies five years ago is that solution. > > Derb Carter > Chapel Hill, NC > Subject: wildbird magazine From: "Ali Iyoob" <Aliiyoob AT nc.rr.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:41:59 -0500 Hi all, A few months ago, I got picked for "Backyard Birder of the month" in Wildbird magazine, giving me a 1 in 12 chance of going birding in Costa Rica! So, if any of you happen to subscribe to Wildbird, I would really appreciate you voting for me. Thanks! Ali Iyoob North Raleigh, NC www.flickr.com/photos/longspur http://birdingjournal.blogspot.com Subject: Hilton Pond 11/11/09 (Cedar Waxwings) From: Bill Hilton Jr. <hilton AT hiltonpond.org> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:21:13 -0500 We don't know anyone who doesn't like Cedar Waxwings, so we're pleased "This Week at Hilton Pond" to be able to share our photo essay about these "elegant" berry-eating birds. For some truly up-close looks at waxwings, please visit the installment for 11-17 November at http://www.hiltonpond.org/ThisWeek091111.html Don't forget to scroll down for a list of banded birds and recaptures, including a wily Eastern Towhee that has been around Hilton Pond a long time. REMINDER: the final deadline for our 2010 midwinter Neotropical Hummingbird Expeditions is 24 November 2009, so you still have time to join us for an unforgettable experience in countries that in January and February are warm, sunny, and filled with exotic flora and fauna. Trip info is at a link from the top of the photo essay. Happy Nature Watching! BILL ======== BILL HILTON JR., Executive Director Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History 1432 DeVinney Road, York, South Carolina 29745 USA (803) 684-5852 The mission of Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History is "to conserve plants, animals, habitats, and other natural components of the Piedmont Region of the eastern United States through observation, scientific study, and education for students of all ages. "Never trust a person too lazy to get up for sunrise or too busy to watch the sunset." BHjr. ============ Subject: Sutton Lake Vespers From: "John Ennis" <johnxennis AT bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:40:21 -0500 After Jeff's sparrow report from yesterday, I checked Sutton Lake...did not have time for Ft Fisher... A few of the usual suspects... Also, 2 Vesper Sparrows...SL reliable location for 4 straight years... John Ennis Leland, NC 910-371-9729 Subject: RE: Ammodramus sp. at Mason Farm, Chapel Hill, NC? From: Robert Rowan Meehan <kkquartz AT hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:11:42 -0500 Thanks to all those that replied! So far, probably due to my very vague description, IDs are all over the Ammodramus and Emberizid map on this one. Hopefully I or other birders will be able to relocate this mystery bird shortly! Robert Meehan Durham, NC From: kkquartz AT hotmail.com To: carolinabirds AT duke.edu Subject: Ammodramus sp. at Mason Farm, Chapel Hill, NC? Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:49:08 -0500 Birded today at Mason Farm, and along with all the regular winter birds was a sparrow I had trouble identifying. I saw it twice about two hours apart, once at the split of the loop trail and once about 50 ft. down the left side, both times near the water filled ditch that lines that part of the trail. It was in the company of Cardinals, White-throated Sparrows, and Field Sparrows. It appeared to be less skittish than the other species of sparrow, and a little more conspicuous - both times I saw it for about two minutes, during which time it moved very little and the second time it preened itself, both times somewhat obscured by shrubbery. So, on to field marks, and I can't remember TOO much but I'll do my best: the bird was markedly smaller than the Cardinals next to it, and in the same general size range as the remaining species of sparrows. It had a large, almost conical bill (not sure of the color, I think it was maybe gray, but don't quote me on it), but the most defining features were the bright orange superciliary and malar stripes highly demarcated against the rest of the face. I was able to see some dark streaking on the breast, and it appeared to continue along the sides of the bird. I can't remember too much more than that, only while looking through Sibley's the bright orange stood out akin to the picture of the Saltmarsh Sparrow, but the range is wrong. I'm fairly certain it was an Ammodramus sp., but I don't have any familiarity with the genus, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! Robert Meehan Durham, NC Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ Subject: Swinhoe's Storm-Petrel From: Clyde Smith <Smith82534 AT aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:01:58 -0500 The Swinhoe's Storm-Petrel has been accepted as a new species by the ABA Checklist Committee based on a photo taken by Steve Howell on a Brian Patteson pelagic trip June 2, 2008. See link below for the Annual Report of the Committee. Clyde Smith Raleigh, NC http://www.aba.org/birding/v41n6p38.pdf Subject: Re: Pea Island and Bonner Bridge From: "Jim and Ginny" <topsynturvy AT msn.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:44:24 -0500 Derb has the right to his opinion but as usual Derb's comment is lined with half truths. First the long bridge was never approved as the LEPD. In point of fact the merger team was considering the long bridge as the LEPD when compared to options available prior to 2007. At this point the merger team invited other proposals. This process led to the development of phased approach that was ultimately approved by the elevated merger team. Go search through the correspondence at www.otbf.org, its all there for the public to see. Secondly, the phased approach does NOT ignore hot spots. It and the new approach address them specifically based upon estimates of erosion through 2060 or something like that. For a comparison of the alternatives as they existed in 2007, please read the comment linked below and form your own opinion. http://fishmojo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3019 I will say one more thing only because as a resident I don't feel I can hold my temper in this discussion. A bridge with a price tag of over a billion dollars is not feasible (especially during this recession and record spending) and asking residents to travel a bridge rated at 2 out of 100 on safety is unconscionable. So build what is feasible and give humans a chance. I'm sorry Pea Island will survive the bridge and the road. It has since 1960. If it can't then designate a wildlife refuge somewhere else that is not inhabited by humans, maybe Portsmouth Island or something. Ginny Luizer, Buxton, NC (Hatteras Island) ----- Original Message ----- From: Derb Carter To: 'carolinabirds AT duke.edu' Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:33 AM Subject: Pea Island and Bonner Bridge Visitors to and residents of Hatteras Island deserve a dependable transportation route. There is no dispute the aging Bonner Bridge needs to be replaced. The current NCDOT plan is to replace the bridge at its current location and ignore the rapidly eroding shorelines south through Pea Island Refuge to Rodanthe. The recent storm that has predictably overwashed portions of Highway 12 through Pea Island Refuge is Mother Nature's comment on that plan. It has created North Carolina's own bridge to nowhere. The storm events that will overwash Highway 12, , likely open new inlets, destroy the current road, and disrupt transportation will only accelerate with sea level rise. Dr. Stan Riggs at ECU has just published an article identifying the locations of five areas between Oregon Inlet and Rodanthe that have a high (annual) or intermediate (annual-decadal) likelihood of becoming new inlets, including the area just north of Rodanthe currently overwashed. In 2005, state and federal agencies including NCDOT and Federal Highways UNANIMOUSLY recommended replacing the Bonner Bridge with a longer bridge that would swing out into Pamlico Sound, bypass the eroding beaches on the refuge and come in at the first village Rodanthe. The agencies concluded the longer bridge is the dependable transportation option with the least environmentally damaging practicable alternative (legal terms for the right thing to do) If the plan had moved forward at that time, under the proposed schedule the bridge would be nearing completion with an opening to traffic planned for Spring of 2010, within a few months. Unfortunately, Dare County objected to the plan, claiming it was too expensive and under political pressure NCDOT withdrew its support. It is of note that since that time NCDOT has found a way to build a brand new $700 million toll bridge across Currituck Sound to the northern Outer Banks, which pales in comparison to the need to replace Bonner Bridge. The current NCDOT plan to replace Bonner Bridge would make Pea Island National Wildlife Refuge, as parts of it are we speak, a perpetual construction zone. As the beach predictably erodes, "emergencies" will be declared to plow the road further through the refuge, including the historic impoundments that host thousands of waterfowl and shorebirds each year. The dune line will be sandbagged as it now is at the S curves. Sand will be dumped on the beaches in a futile attempt to fight the ocean. The US Fish & Wildlife Service must find that all these predictable activities on National Wildlife Refuge property are compatible with the purpose of the refuge under federal law: a refuge for waterfowl, nesting sea turtles, and other wildlife. The Fish & Wildlife Service has said you can have a wildlife refuge or a perpetual highway construction zone, but you can't have both. In trying carry out their legal mandate to protect the refuge, they have been vilified. If you go to Pea Island now, at the end of the south impoundment you will pass some maintenance buildings on the ocean side. That is the old Pea Island headquarters. Many of us remember, and it was not too long ago, that the highway passed on the ocean side of those buildings. These buildings were impacted by the eroding shoreline from the storm and I understand may now be removed. The ocean marches on. In addition to the adverse environmental and refuge impacts, re-building the Bonner Bridge at its current location is a short-sighted disservice to the residents of Hatteras Island. As this storm illustrates, it is of little value to have a bridge you can not get to. They deserve more. The longer bridge bypassing the refuge, the eroding hot spots, and future inlet areas that was unanimously agreed to by all state and federal agencies five years ago is that solution. Derb Carter Chapel Hill, NC Subject: one Junco From: jackpateck AT comcast.net Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:29:48 +0000 (UTC) Sunday brought one junco and one gold finch to the back yard. Jack Eckstine Hanahan,SC Subject: Re: Ammodramus sp. at Mason Farm, Chapel Hill, NC? From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:17:03 -0500 Robert, Saltmarsh Sparrows do occasionally crop up inland in migration. So that species is a possibility. But Saltmarsh and Nelson's, in their many flavors, can be so similar that a generation or two ago (when they were considered subspecies), it was considered folly by many to even try to identify them in the field (beyond "it's a sharp-tail"). Time marches on and with the split between the two species, it seems more important to be able to distinguish between them, but it isn't that much *easier*! Heck, I've had individuals in the hand that were very hard to decide on. Which is a long way of saying that although the streaking might seem to favor Saltmarsh, some Nelsons can have pretty extensive streaking as well. Nelson's is more likely in your location, but Saltmarsh is not impossible, and it might be best to leave it as "sharp-tailed sparrow," which is a good find in your location no matter where it came from. Chris On Nov 16, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Robert Rowan Meehan wrote: > Birded today at Mason Farm, and along with all the regular winter > birds was a sparrow I had trouble identifying. I saw it twice about > two hours apart, once at the split of the loop trail and once about > 50 ft. down the left side, both times near the water filled ditch > that lines that part of the trail. It was in the company of > Cardinals, White-throated Sparrows, and Field Sparrows. It appeared > to be less skittish than the other species of sparrow, and a little > more conspicuous - both times I saw it for about two minutes, during > which time it moved very little and the second time it preened > itself, both times somewhat obscured by shrubbery. So, on to field > marks, and I can't remember TOO much but I'll do my best: the bird > was markedly smaller than the Cardinals next to it, and in the same > general size range as the remaining species of sparrows. It had a > large, almost conical bill (not sure of the color, I think it was > maybe gray, but don't quote me on it), but the most defining > features were the bright orange superciliary and malar stripes > highly demarcated against the rest of the face. I was able to see > some dark streaking on the breast, and it appeared to continue along > the sides of the bird. I can't remember too much more than that, > only while looking through Sibley's the bright orange stood out akin > to the picture of the Saltmarsh Sparrow, but the range is wrong. I'm > fairly certain it was an Ammodramus sp., but I don't have any > familiarity with the genus, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks > in advance! > > Robert Meehan > Durham, NC > > Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm Never appeal to a man's "better nature." He may not have one. Invoking his self-interest gives you more leverage. - Lazarus Long Subject: Pea Island and Bonner Bridge From: Derb Carter <derbc AT selcnc.org> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:33:34 -0500 Visitors to and residents of Hatteras Island deserve a dependable transportation route. There is no dispute the aging Bonner Bridge needs to be replaced. The current NCDOT plan is to replace the bridge at its current location and ignore the rapidly eroding shorelines south through Pea Island Refuge to Rodanthe. The recent storm that has predictably overwashed portions of Highway 12 through Pea Island Refuge is Mother Nature's comment on that plan. It has created North Carolina's own bridge to nowhere. The storm events that will overwash Highway 12, , likely open new inlets, destroy the current road, and disrupt transportation will only accelerate with sea level rise. Dr. Stan Riggs at ECU has just published an article identifying the locations of five areas between Oregon Inlet and Rodanthe that have a high (annual) or intermediate (annual-decadal) likelihood of becoming new inlets, including the area just north of Rodanthe currently overwashed. In 2005, state and federal agencies including NCDOT and Federal Highways UNANIMOUSLY recommended replacing the Bonner Bridge with a longer bridge that would swing out into Pamlico Sound, bypass the eroding beaches on the refuge and come in at the first village Rodanthe. The agencies concluded the longer bridge is the dependable transportation option with the least environmentally damaging practicable alternative (legal terms for the right thing to do) If the plan had moved forward at that time, under the proposed schedule the bridge would be nearing completion with an opening to traffic planned for Spring of 2010, within a few months. Unfortunately, Dare County objected to the plan, claiming it was too expensive and under political pressure NCDOT withdrew its support. It is of note that since that time NCDOT has found a way to build a brand new $700 million toll bridge across Currituck Sound to the northern Outer Banks, which pales in comparison to the need to replace Bonner Bridge. The current NCDOT plan to replace Bonner Bridge would make Pea Island National Wildlife Refuge, as parts of it are we speak, a perpetual construction zone. As the beach predictably erodes, "emergencies" will be declared to plow the road further through the refuge, including the historic impoundments that host thousands of waterfowl and shorebirds each year. The dune line will be sandbagged as it now is at the S curves. Sand will be dumped on the beaches in a futile attempt to fight the ocean. The US Fish & Wildlife Service must find that all these predictable activities on National Wildlife Refuge property are compatible with the purpose of the refuge under federal law: a refuge for waterfowl, nesting sea turtles, and other wildlife. The Fish & Wildlife Service has said you can have a wildlife refuge or a perpetual highway construction zone, but you can't have both. In trying carry out their legal mandate to protect the refuge, they have been vilified. If you go to Pea Island now, at the end of the south impoundment you will pass some maintenance buildings on the ocean side. That is the old Pea Island headquarters. Many of us remember, and it was not too long ago, that the highway passed on the ocean side of those buildings. These buildings were impacted by the eroding shoreline from the storm and I understand may now be removed. The ocean marches on. In addition to the adverse environmental and refuge impacts, re-building the Bonner Bridge at its current location is a short-sighted disservice to the residents of Hatteras Island. As this storm illustrates, it is of little value to have a bridge you can not get to. They deserve more. The longer bridge bypassing the refuge, the eroding hot spots, and future inlet areas that was unanimously agreed to by all state and federal agencies five years ago is that solution. Derb Carter Chapel Hill, NC Subject: Cedar Waxwings in Burlington From: Steve Wedge <w1es1982 AT earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:18:49 -0500 (EST) Saw my FOY Cedar Waxwings, mixed in with a large group of Robins in the courtyard at work today. They were chowing down on the mini-pears (Bartlett? can't remember - it's the pear tree that's everywhere!) Steve Wedge Burlington, NC Subject: Re: OBX, Pamlico Peninsula, 11/14-/11-15 From: "Jim and Ginny" <topsynturvy AT msn.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:12:57 -0500 Thanks to the same group from SELC, Audubon, and Defenders of Wildlife, along with Pea Island management and a few others, we did not have the causeway in place that would have prevented the road closure. Meanwhile not only was recreation impacted but my dog suffered for two days with what turned out to be an inoperable tumor, my friends elderly cat took a turn for the worse and could not receive care, another friend couldn't get medical service to her mother's oxygen tank which malfunctioned, etc. Oh and also the store shelves are getting bare. So if any of you are asked to block the bridge replacement option NCDOT has determined to be the least environmentally damaging "practicable" alternative, think about those of us who live on this island and the impact of continuing to postpone the replacement that was scheduled for 1993. It is a matter of our health, welfare, and safety. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Kneidel To: carolinabirds AT duke.edu Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: OBX, Pamlico Peninsula, 11/14-/11-15 Hey folks, Spent the weekend on the coast, helping out with the UNC-Chapel Hill Vert Zoology course. As of Sunday evening, NC 12 was still closed south of Oregon Inlet, so Pea Island was a no-go. According to patrol, NC 12 is still underwater at points near Rodanthe but should be cleared up soon, with the road potentially being opened up Sunday evening(tonight). So, instead, Saturday was spent north of Oregon Inlet, with Saturday in Alligator River and Mattamuskeet. Highlights: Ocean watching from Nags Head was limited due to the continued fog and heavy surf.. but, amongst the regular passersby, a group of 5 passing COMMON EIDER were seen Saturday morning, along with a small group of GREATER SCAUP, with 1 MARBLED GODWIT, 2 LESSER BLACK-BACKED GULLS AND 1 LAUGHING GULL tooling around. Elsewhere, a single female COMMON EIDER was seen floating between the yachts at Oregon Inlet Marina, while in and around the grassy pools at the marina were a couple of unexpected late birds, 1 female BLUE-WINGED TEAL and 4 CATTLE EGRETS. Sitting in the parking lot was 1 adult LESSER BLACK-BACKED GULL, and on the beach at Oregon Inlet was 1 PIPING PLOVER. The trend of lingering birds continued at Bodie Island, with 4 BARN SWALLOWS visible from the new viewing stand. Moving onto Mattamuskeet.. .no rarities, best birds included a few more BLUE-WINGED TEAL, a few LAUGHING GULLS, CASPIAN TERNS and a handful of CANVASBACK visible from the causeway amongst the thousands of other waterfowl. Also present was a BALTIMORE ORIOLE. From the gazebo on the causeway we witnessed a near-adult Bald Eagle catch a coot, only to have it flushed from his talons by a 2nd year bird, who proceeded to consume the remains in front of the watchful eye of three adult eagles and some Fish Crows. Quite the awesome drama. Locals said that this was the biggest storm since Isabel in 2006, and the evidence supports it. In Nags Head, dunes have disappeared and beachside boardwalks are buried in a foot of sand, while the surf is littered with the shards of docks. Driving throughout the Pamlico Peninsula, settlement after settlement has sections underwater, and most fields have become temporary ponds. Not something you see everyday. -- Alan H. Kneidel Chapel Hill, NC 980-254-2706 akneidel AT gmail.com Subject: Juncos Have Arrived From: "John Ennis" <johnxennis AT bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:46:36 -0500 About a dozen in my backyard this morning... John Ennis Leland, NC 910-371-9729 Subject: Langley SC White Pelicans From: "Steve Cox" <srcox AT bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:16:33 -0500 My brother, wife and I visited Langley Pond on Monday in hopes of seeing the white pelicans. We arrived well before lunch and were very disappointed not to see them. We had been forewarned that they were not present on Sunday afternoon because there was a number of jet skis on the pond. At one point we thought we saw them in the upper area. We investigated and found it not to be true. After lunch, we traveled to Silver Bluff and birded. On the way home we decided to stop by Langley's Pond one more time and this time we were successful! There were 7 on the island. All were asleep except one who preened for us. This was a lifer for my wife and I. Thanks to all who helped me with directions and birding area tips. Steve Cox Fountain Inn, SC srcox AT bellsouth.net Subject: Marsh Hawk in Lee County? From: "Paul Hubert" <phubert AT nc.rr.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:09:53 -0500 I was sitting in my deer stand yesterday (Monday 11/15/09) morning at about 10:00 am when a hawk landed in the tree beside me. It landed on a branch on the opposite side of the tree so its head was blocked from my view, and I was blocked from its view. I was on the Lee Game lands in Lee county, about a mile from the Cape Fear river. The habitat is about 100 acres of 10 year old Loblolly pine- all the trees are about 20 feet tall and very densely packed together. The hawk and I were watching a clearing about 20 feet in diameter. Because the cover was so thick, I couldn't identify what type of hawk it was. All I could see was that it was about crow-sized and the wing tips were about even with the tail in length, so it wasn't an accipiter. Finally I made a kissing noise and the hawk flew away, and I could see a white band on the dorsal side of the base of its tail (ie white rump), like a Marsh hawk. The overall dorsal color was gray. But I can't imagine a Marsh hawk in a Lee county pine thicket. Any other suggestions as to what it might have been? Thanks, Paul Hubert. Paul Hubert Southern Wake County, N.C. Subject: Lincoln's Sparrow From: "Ali Iyoob" <Aliiyoob AT nc.rr.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:07:05 -0500 Yesterday, I said I had a possible Lincoln's at Crabtree, and I just confirmed it with my Sibley. Nice bird for Wake! Ali Iyoob North Raleigh, NC www.flickr.com/photos/longspur http://birdingjournal.blogspot.com Subject: Cooper's photo From: Randy Climpson <rclimpson AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:46:19 -0800 (PST) Thanks to the several you who gave me instructions to get the photo on Carolina bird club photo gallery. I have submitted it for posting. Hope it is posted as it is a really good photo. Forgot to mention that it was not mine but a friend's....Phil Day of OIB took it last year in Carolina Shores. Hawk is perched on a backyard fence with a cardinal skewered under its talons during an in-progress meal. --Randy Climpson Ocean Isle Beach, NC Subject: Singing birds From: jeff lewis <jlewis_obx AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:45:22 -0800 (PST) Three times now in the last 2 weeks I've heard Hermit Thrushes singing - not a quiet little "whisper" song, either. What a treat! Today a Blue-headed Vireo was singing here in the Elizabethan Gardens. Works for me! Jeff Lewis Manteo, NC Subject: Rufous Hummingbird, Moore Co., NC From: Wayne Irvin <ephstop AT mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:02:32 -0500 Once again, my wife Fran's salvia garden has attracted a Rufous Hummingbird. Over the last ten years about six of this species have spent the winter, or significant fractions of winters, in our yard in Southern Pines, NC. The current bird was first noticed about a week ago and appears to have settled in. As has been the case with all the others, this one is a hatch-year individual and a brilliant orange-red gorget feather or two marks it as a male. This morning, for the first time, I watched it feed from one of the feeders. Here-to-for, it seemed content seeking nectar and small insects from fall blooming salvia flowers. Wayne & Fran Irvin 145 Riding Lane Southern Pines, NC 910 695 7269