Birdingonthe.Net Recent Postings from Brit Col Interior > Home > Mail > Alerts Updated on Thursday, February 9 at 02:38 PM EST The most recently received Mail is at the top.	Painted Redstart,©Barry Kent Mackay

9 Feb Re: Owls [Len Jellicoe ] 9 Feb RE: Owls ["Dick Cannings" ] 09 Feb Owls ["amanda.lahaie" ] 8 Feb Penticton birding ["Dick Cannings" ] 8 Feb Mojave Narrows, Joshua Tree National Park, and the Salton Sea [Chris Siddle ] 08 Feb Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers ["amanda.lahaie" ] 8 Feb RE: Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers ["Rick Howie" ] 08 Feb Re: More Waxwings ["Dianne C." ] 08 Feb Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers ["Dianne C." ] 7 Feb RE: Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers ["Rick Howie" ] 7 Feb Re: More Waxwings ["A & J Ginns" ] 7 Feb Oliver Waxwings [Bob McKay ] 08 Feb Owls ["douglasbrown01" ] 7 Feb adult Iceland Gull in Penticton [Laure Neish ] 7 Feb RE: Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers ["Rick Howie" ] 7 Feb RE: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers ["Rick Howie" ] 07 Feb Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers ["amanda.lahaie" ] 7 Feb Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers [Chris Siddle ] 6 Feb RE: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers ["Rick Howie" ] 6 Feb Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers [dianne cooper ] 6 Feb RE: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers ["Carol" ] 6 Feb RE: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers ["Katharine Shewchuk" ] 6 Feb Philpott Rd [Chris Charlesworth ] 06 Feb Re: Santa Cruz Island ["Thor" ] 6 Feb RE: Santa Cruz Island ["Dick Cannings" ] 6 Feb Santa Cruz Island [Chris Siddle ] 6 Feb more bicycle birding adventures: Anniversary birding Take 2 ["Dick Cannings" ] 05 Feb Re: Costa Rica birding ["nogwon2003" ] 5 Feb RE: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers ["Rick Howie" ] 05 Feb Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers ["Dianne C." ] 4 Feb Rosy-finches & Prairie Falcon [Chris Charlesworth ] 04 Feb south Okanagan bicycle birding [Dick Cannings ] 4 Feb Our Adventure... [David Chapman ] 4 Feb Costa Rica birding [Gary Davidson ] 4 Feb Prairie Falcon & Lesser Black-backed Gull [Chris Charlesworth ] 3 Feb Additions to 2012 Interior List - February ["Rick Howie" ] 3 Feb Feb. listing [Laure Neish ] 3 Feb Ventura Ranch KOA [Chris Siddle ] 2 Feb Kelowna raptors [Chris Charlesworth ] 02 Feb VARC Spring Workshops ["Derek Matthews" ] 1 Feb RE: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull ["Rick Howie" ] 01 Feb Re: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull [Russell Cannings ] 1 Feb RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull [] 1 Feb Re: another Lesser Black-backed Gull [Chris Charlesworth ] 01 Feb RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull [Russell Cannings ] 31 Jan RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull ["Rick Howie" ] 31 Jan another Lesser Black-backed Gull [Chris Charlesworth ] 30 Jan Lesser Black-backed & Glaucous Gull in Vernon [Chris Charlesworth ] 29 Jan RE: Redpolls again ["Rick Howie" ] 29 Jan Redpolls again ["Rick Howie" ] 30 Jan Re: Hoary Redpoll ? ["douglasbrown01" ] 29 Jan Re: Re: Hoary Redpoll ? [Laure Neish ] 29 Jan Re: Hoary Redpoll ? ["douglasbrown01" ] 29 Jan VARC - 2011 Year end Report ["Derek Matthews" ] 29 Jan Re: Hoary Redpoll ? [Laure Neish ] 28 Jan RE: Hoary Redpoll ? [Chris Charlesworth ] 28 Jan Hoary Redpoll ? [Laure Neish ] 28 Jan RE: spotted towhee ["Katharine Shewchuk" ] 28 Jan Re: Still on the search for Snowy ["amanda.lahaie" ] 28 Jan spotted towhee [Janna Leslie ] 27 Jan RE: thrasher dip ["Rick Howie" ] 27 Jan Re: South Okanagan birding ["A & J Ginns" ] 27 Jan thrasher dip [Chris Siddle ] 27 Jan RE: Sacramento Nat'l Wildlife Refuge ["Wayne Weber" ] 26 Jan Chichester [Chris Charlesworth ] 26 Jan Re: Still on the search for Snowy [Jim Mitchell ] 26 Jan RE: Still on the search for Snowy ["Katharine Shewchuk" ] 26 Jan South Okanagan birding [Laure Neish ] 26 Jan RE: Eurasian Collared doves ["Bob and Maggie" ] 26 Jan Still on the search for Snowy ["amanda.lahaie" ] 26 Jan Eurasian Collared doves [Tammy Proctor ] 25 Jan Sacramento Nat'l Wildlife Refuge [Chris Siddle ] 25 Jan Kelowna birding [Chris Charlesworth ] 25 Jan Re: Interesting yard bird [] 25 Jan Interesting yard bird [Laure Neish ] 24 Jan Collared Swans ["Rick Howie" ] Subject: Re: Owls From: Len Jellicoe <jellicoes AT shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 11:28:13 -0800 Hi Amanda-why don't you try Boundary Bay where the possiblities are almost 100%? See you in the field Len Jellicoe Abbotsford, BC Canada http://lenjellicoe.zenfolio.com/ On 9-Feb-12, at 9:26 AM, amanda.lahaie wrote: > So we finally got up to Merritt last week, but it seems we weren't > meant to find a Snowy this year after all. There were lots of Swans, > Bald Eagles and Red-tailed Hawks, though. > > Since we didn't have any luck in Merritt, we thought we'd try for > some of the owls spotted at the Osoyoos Oxbows. I've never been > there before so I was hoping for a little bit of advice/guidance or > any tips. I don't want to strike out again! The weather isn't > supposed to be the greatest this weekend, but hopefully we'll still > get to make an effort. Is there a specific time of day that would be > best to visit? Where is the best place to begin the search? A few > potential lifers could come of this trip. Any further info would be > greatly appreciated. > > Amanda > Princeton, BC > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Owls From: "Dick Cannings" <dickcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 10:47:45 -0800 Hi Amanda: I don't think it matters what time of day or the weather as to what owls you might find in the Osoyoos Oxbows-they're just roosting for the day, and all you need is a bit of luck to stumble across them. I've sent you more details offline, but it usually just involves walking through a lot of bush watching for owls. The Long-eareds like to roost low in the water birch clumps; the Barn Owls in very thick vegetation. I hope you're not too sensitive to poison ivy-there's quite a bit in there. cheers Dick Cannings Penticton, BC http://dickcannings.com From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amanda.lahaie Sent: February-09-12 9:27 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Owls So we finally got up to Merritt last week, but it seems we weren't meant to find a Snowy this year after all. There were lots of Swans, Bald Eagles and Red-tailed Hawks, though. Since we didn't have any luck in Merritt, we thought we'd try for some of the owls spotted at the Osoyoos Oxbows. I've never been there before so I was hoping for a little bit of advice/guidance or any tips. I don't want to strike out again! The weather isn't supposed to be the greatest this weekend, but hopefully we'll still get to make an effort. Is there a specific time of day that would be best to visit? Where is the best place to begin the search? A few potential lifers could come of this trip. Any further info would be greatly appreciated. Amanda Princeton, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Owls From: "amanda.lahaie" <amlahaie AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:26:59 -0000 So we finally got up to Merritt last week, but it seems we weren't meant to find a Snowy this year after all. There were lots of Swans, Bald Eagles and Red-tailed Hawks, though. Since we didn't have any luck in Merritt, we thought we'd try for some of the owls spotted at the Osoyoos Oxbows. I've never been there before so I was hoping for a little bit of advice/guidance or any tips. I don't want to strike out again! The weather isn't supposed to be the greatest this weekend, but hopefully we'll still get to make an effort. Is there a specific time of day that would be best to visit? Where is the best place to begin the search? A few potential lifers could come of this trip. Any further info would be greatly appreciated. Amanda Princeton, BC ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Penticton birding From: "Dick Cannings" <dickcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 13:57:29 -0800 Hi birders: I was planning on cycling down to the Penticton lakeshore first thing this morning to look for the lovely Iceland Gull Laure found yesterday, but an unexpected snowstorm made me delay departure until 11:30. When I got to the Yacht Club, the gulls were all out on ice floes about a kilometre from shore, so I decided to just walk around the trails behind the club. I did see a Townsend's Solitaire, an Audubon's-type Yellow-rumped Warbler and a Ring-necked Pheasant, all new for my non-motorized 2012 list. Also at the ice-edge there were 3 Trumpeter Swans. There were 4 more Trumpeters at the SS Sicamous on the west end of the beach. I guess I'll try again tomorrow for the gull! Dick Cannings Penticton, BC http://dickcannings.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Mojave Narrows, Joshua Tree National Park, and the Salton Sea From: Chris Siddle <chris.siddle AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 12:58:51 -0800 Hi birders, Sonja pointed out that I had the price of our boat to Santa Cruz Island too high. It cost $25/person, not $85. The trip was an hour and a half, not two hours. The next part of our trip wasn't really planned thoroughly. I birded around the KOA near Santa Paul for a couple of hours and picked up Band-tailed Pigeons in the oaks along the creek, and then we headed east. I saw yet another Red-shouldered Hawk, this one between Santa Paula and Santa Clarita. We found a regional park with a reputation for good birding potential east of Victorville, CA. It's called Mojave Narrows Regional Park and Wildlife Area and consists of a little fishing lake, a horseshoe shaped shallow slough, pastures for horses and cattle, and the flood plain of the Mojave covered in sand but growing lots of oaks. Also there's a narrow slice of high desert between the campground and the railroad. Walking around the park from 2 PM onwards I found about 50 species. Western Bluebirds sort of replaced robins, foraging in small parties of the crispy "lawns". Also evident were a couple of Say's Phoebes, with a Black Phoebe found closer to the water. Great Blue Herons were concentrated and common. I counted 36 with about 14 apparently waiting on a bare lawn for the human fishers to leave the lake at 5 PM as the park personnel required them to do. Three Great Egrets and five Black-crowned Night Herons were also around the lake, as well as American Coots, a couple of Double-crested Cormorants, 3 Pied-billed Grebes and some California Gulls which appeared to be migrating west in two of low-flying flocks. They could also have been local birds congregating for the night since it seems awfully earlier by B.C. standards for Cals to be migrating. Horned Larks drinking around a puddle were my first of the year. Other open-ground birds included Brewer's Blackbirds, Great -tailed Grackles (one mixed group around the livestock feeding operations and a flock of males only rampaging around the edges of the playing fields), Red-winged Blackbirds, a Loggerhead Shrike, Killdeer, an American Kestrel, an adult Red-shouldered Hawk along the edges of some shade trees, a pair of Red-tailed Hawks, Mourning Doves, crows and lots of ravens. In the slough were 200+ Canada Geese watching me closely (there's a lot more waterfowl hunting in the US, as you probably know), a Cinnamon Teal, several Green-winged Teal, Gadwalls, Northern Pintails, and my first of the year Wilson's Snipes (3). In the oak forest along the flood route the river would take I was surprised to find a couple of Mountain Chickadees, with nary a conifer in sight. This subspecies, whichever one it is, has a narrower eyebrow than ours does. Also in the oaks were Nuttall's Woodpeckers, one of the farthest east locations for this species which does interbreed at times with Ladder-backs in the vicinity. Final birds of the day included at least 40 Turkey Vultures gathering to soar low over the oaks, looking to roost I suppose, a few Yellow-rumped Warblers still foraging, a Phainopepla, and a Sharp-shinned Hawk trying to pick up a late supper. The next morning we explored Big Morongo Valley Preserve and saw many of the same species of brush and woodland birds but added a Red-naped Sapsucker (male), a Lesser Goldfinch, Ladder-backed Woodpeckers (both Nuttall's and Ladder-backed are present at Big Morongo), California Towhee, Verdins, Bushtits, and three more Mountain Chickadees. We explored only part of one trail. There are 3 or 4 other trails crossing habitats we didn't get into so you can imagine the avian diversity of the place, especially during migration. I really liked Joshua Tree National Park where we stayed at the dry campground called Hidden Valley where rodents and rock climbers rule, but in nice ways. Every campsite seems equipped with hot and cold running California Ground Squirrels, White-tailed Antelope Squirrels, and a chipmunk or two. Throw in Desert Cottontails and you got yourself some seriously cute goings-on right outside your door. As if the mammals aren't adorable enough, throw in a pair of Rock Wrens that seemed just about ready to include the inside of our van in their afternoon foraging. Between the huge boulders that surround each camp are woodrat nests. Also known as pack rats, these members of the genus Neotoma have a habit of stashing in their stick nests novel items they find. Fiona Reid in her Field Guide to the Mammals of North America (2006) is rather dismissive in her phrasing: "Woodrats ... often haul a variety of junk to decorate their nest, hence the vernacular "pack rats"" Sounds to me like Fiona has had to live with a human pack rat. It's fun to check around the outside of the nests to see what didn't quite make it into the inner sanctum. Shiny foil from a piece of chewing gum, a stout gnarly stick and a little plastic tub of salsa were edged under the rocks by the outhouses at the campground. I made plans to come back at dark and see if I could surprise the woodrat out in the open, but the night got quite cold and I didn't follow through. The next day we drove down the east side of the Salton Sea. Here my lack of preparation really affected our attitudes. We let the place get to us - the 25 miles of construction zone between the railroad and the highway where crews were replacing railroad culverts torn out in a huge storm of a few months ago, the millions of ancient dead fish covered in salt on the "beach", plus the newly deceased ones floating belly-up in the sea around the Visitors centre to the SS Rec. Area south of of Mecca, and the desperately squalid trailor-town of Bombay put both of us into a lets-move-on frame of mind. I noticed Least Sandpipers, Abert's Towhees, Eared Grebes, a Bonaparte's Gull, but just in passing. Sundown found us in an RV park in Yuma, listening to a Great Horned Owl in the not-so-distance. To be continued. Chris Siddle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: "amanda.lahaie" <amlahaie AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:02:21 -0000 The bully male will actually eat from any of the 3 suet feeders. I'm not sure that any one is better than the other, though one is home made. I haven't paid much attention to the amount of food in the feeders when the bullying takes place. The other downies will go to one of the other feeders if they are free or sometimes wait in the tree for him to finish. An interesting thing to note though, is the female at times seems to be the bird that stays around the longest. She will feed and either take a nap near the feeder or sit in the pines until she is hungry again. The males usually will eat until they've had enough and then leave. I haven't noticed them to stick around much after eating. Amanda --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, "Rick Howie" wrote: > > So Amanda: can we conclude that the feeder occupied by the bully male is the > best place for food? Where do the other Downies hang out when he is present? > Do they come to the feeder when he leaves.? I think you are confirming that > there is still a dominance hierarchy in effect around the small area of the > feeder itself. He may dominate (or attempt to) other preferred sites out in > the forest as well. > > > > Rick Howie > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of amanda.lahaie > Sent: February-07-12 8:21 AM > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: [bcintbird] Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > > > There are three Downy Woodpeckers that visit our feeders. Two are males and > one is a female and all three have been here at the same time. The one male > is a bully and will chase the other two away from the feeder, but if they're > all in different areas they don't bother with one another. > > Amanda > Princeton > > --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com , > Chris Siddle wrote: > > > > Based upon the Downy Woodpeckers (at least one male and at least one > > female) that came to the suet feeders at our house in Vernon earlier this > > winter, I concur with Katherine Shewchuk's observation. > > > > Chris S. > > > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Katharine Shewchuk wrote: > > > > > I'm kind of late in participating in this downie discussion, but what I > > > have > > > noticed is that the downie male and female never feed together. They > seem > > > to each have their own feeding times. > > > > > > Katharine > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On > > > Behalf > > > Of Rick Howie > > > Sent: February 5, 2012 10:50 AM > > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HI Dianne: phraseology which include "why" animals do things is always > > > interesting because it implies rational thought which animal > behaviorists > > > still tend to shy away from I think, at least in non-primates. I would > > > think > > > that some of the benefits of social dominance are to maintain breeding > > > superiority, territorial preferences and nutrition. So if one is able to > > > dominate another bird (male or female) and maintain access to better > > > nutrition, it should allow you to be healthier. Ergo, you would likely > be > > > able to dominate lesser individuals more easily. But does the male have > to > > > be healthier in order to be an effective dominator or does he need to > > > dominate in order just to stay healthy? Are females necessarily not > > > healthy? > > > > > > My interpretation would be that social dominance is used to exclude > females > > > in order to achieve one major benefit which is better nutrition. That > > > better nutrition may in turn allow them to be more effective at > dominating > > > the females but the researcher does not say this. Clearly, the social > > > dominance mechanisms are effective but is this because of nutrition or > > > other > > > factors which have allowed those dominance behaviors to work? It is a > bit > > > of a chicken and egg question, but I would tend to ask what the benefits > of > > > the behavior are that has enabled the behavior to evolve and maintain > > > itself. It should be a self-sustaining process whereby the benefits feed > > > back to the perpetrator in a way which confers traits which allow the > > > behavior to be effective. > > > > > > As a metaphor, if I was better able to survive by punching someone and > > > taking his food, it seems beneficial if the food made me bigger so that > I > > > could punch even more people and take their food and nobody could take > my > > > food. But perhaps I don't have to be bigger and stronger if I have some > > > other way of dominating the person and taking his food. Perhaps I have a > > > weapon, or perhaps the look in my eyes or the tone of my voice is > > > sufficient > > > to intimidate the other person. Size may not be an issue. > > > > > > So now you need to ask about what the benefits to the species as a whole > > > are. Why should males dominate the foraging conditions when females are > > > present? Do males need to replace & grow feathers faster for some > reason? > > > The implications from the research is that these differences may only be > > > apparent when food resources are limited. As long as both genders can > > > obtain > > > adequate nutrition, feather growth is equal. Interesting stuff. > > > > > > Rick Howie > > > > > > Kamloops > > > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > ] > > > On > > > Behalf > > > Of Dianne C. > > > Sent: February-05-12 9:49 AM > > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > > > This abstract says that male Downy Woodpeckers exclude females from good > > > feeding areas in the winter?! The rotten little AT $&. > > > > > > (he says males have better nutrion - because they exclude the females? > -, > > > BUT then he says the males better nutrion makes them exclude the > females. > > > .??? Or am I interpreting the use of the word 'status' correctly?) > > > > > > Dianne C. > > > > > > The Auk C 1989 American Ornithologists' Union , Thomas Grubb > > > > > > Abstract > > > Ptilochronology is the study of the growth rates of feathers by the > > > measuring of growth bars. Growth bars are cross-bands on feathers that > > > denote 24-h periods of growth. If a rectrix is plucked from a bird that > is > > > released, and then recaptured more than a month later, the width of the > > > growth bars on the replacement (or induced) rectrix can provide a > > > day-by-day > > > record of the nutritional regime under which the bird had lived. Growth > > > rate > > > of induced rectrices varies among ages, sexes, and species of birds. I > > > measured growth bars on feathers induced in Downy Woodpeckers (Picoides > > > pubescens) that wintered in Ohio woodlots without supplemental food. On > a > > > daily basis, females grew feathers significantly more slowly than males. > In > > > other woodlots, where the woodpeckers were given supplementary food, > daily > > > feather growth did not differ between sexes. I concluded that male Downy > > > Woodpeckers normally have a better nutritional status than females > during > > > the winter. A difference in nutritional status may explain why male > Downy > > > Woodpeckers use their social dominance to exclude females from parts of > the > > > species niche during winter. Ptilochronology could permit new insights > into > > > the nutritional ecology of free-ranging birds. Hypotheses that predict > even > > > minor variation in the nutritional status of birds should become > accessible > > > to testing. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > To contact the moderator email > > > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > > > > Also, consider joining these groups. > > > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com > an all BC group. > > > If you have pictures to share try this group. > > > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > > > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see > the > > > pictures. > > > Subject: RE: Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 08:18:06 -0800 We have no information about swan diets here and whether there are(were) any differences. One assumes that with their longer necks, Trumpeters can forage in deeper water than Tundras, but how or if this played a role in the population shift I can't say. Although swans tend to occupy the same reaches of the river as they always have, there are some places that the Tundra Swans used to go in large numbers that the Trumpeters do not. This is true even when similar ice conditions occur that used to drive the Tundras upstream to open water. So lots of potential variables to ponder. Have no fear of lengthy statistical analyses. N=2 just about taxes me to the limit. : ) Rick From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dianne C. Sent: February-08-12 7:49 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers Maybe it wasn't direct interaction between the swan species that allowed the Trumpeters to take over the Tundra places. maybe it was changes in some aspect of the food supply that made it less favoured by Tundras, so the Trumps could move in to an open space / niche or maybe even the feeding was more favoured by the Trumpeters. In other words passive rather than aggressive. But you are saying the Downy males are definitely actively excluding females. (PS detailed reference to statistal formulae will be actively skipped over and immediately purged from awareness; n=2 is fine). Males 'dominate' in winter feeding, except for house finches, you say! Interesting to know, thx! I watched a cute thing yesterday, with Common Redpolls and should have taken note of gender. Three redpolls were sitting about 12 cm apart on a capped fence. The first one pecked at something at its feet. The second one hopped towards it and flushed the first one away. Then the second one hopped to that spot and pecked. Meanwhile, the third one had moved over. The third one repeated the whole procedure, flush, move over, peck, then it flew off, too! Redpoll dominos. Dianne C. --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com , "Rick Howie" wrote: > > Based upon the widely-spaced supporting observations of the differential > feeding times, we might safely conclude that the phenomenon is true (sample > size N =2 ). Now the question becomes that of determining the mechanism. How > does it occur? Is it simply random chance that the birds do not share a > joint feeding period and the two genders are just on different schedules > when they move around their winter home range? Probably not if one observes > this phenomenon over a wide geographic area. So we come back to the notion > that there is some competitive exclusion mechanism at work such as social > dominance. Other experiments have observed that male Downies dominate the > feeding environment (as measured in a number of ways) but if you > experimentally remove the males, females will change their behavior and act > more like males in terms of exploiting their environment. (use larger > diameter branches, foraging heights and other substrate conditions normally > used by males). Removing females in the experiment did not cause males to > change their behavior. This refutes the notion that foraging strategies for > each gender are different due to genetic pre-dispositions. The differences > are due to a social hierarchy whereby males are dominant. > > > > In a related phenomenon, we have noticed over a 25 year period that the > Tundra Swan population wintering on the South Thompson River has been > replaced by Trumpeter Swans whose general population in western North > America has increased dramatically. We postulate that food resources are > limiting and there is only room for so many large white birds on the river. > The "carrying capacity" is limited. But what exactly is the mechanism by > which one species dominates the other to the point of exclusion? I have > never observed prominent direct aggression by the larger Trumpeters chasing > the Tundras away from feeding areas. The mechanisms may be more subtle. Is > there some implied peril that the Trumpeter's larger size causes the smaller > birds to leave? Trumpeters did not arrive en masse one day and simply > overwhelm the population of Tundras. Numbers slowly built up over years and > the Trumpeters were in the distinct minority for a long time, yet the > ultimately gained superiority. > > Dominance hierarchies can actually benefit both the aggressors and the > subordinates by reducing time spent in open conflict and reducing the risk > of injury to either party. The birds spend more time on the important > behavior of feeding for example. I am sure we can all recall the school > bully who you stayed away from based upon his reputation alone. It was not > worth getting a black eye to see if you could steal his marbles unless they > were really nice ones. If you tried, you got a black eye and he took your > marbles if he was as tough as he made out to be. So it would have been > much better if you stayed apart and played with your own marbles in another > part of the school yard. > > > > Tundra Swans have been shown to engage in a graded series of aggressive > behaviors amongst themselves. They range from direct physical attacks > through low intensity, subtle posturing that serve to maintain dominance. > The school bully may only need to hold up his arm and flex his biceps and > look you in the eye to keep you away rather than whacking your noggin. > In Tundra Swans for example, there is a social hierarchy based upon simple > group numbers. Large family groups dominate smaller family groups and groups > dominate smaller numbers of unpaired birds and so forth. The initiators of > aggressive acts are most often part of a larger group (strength in numbers) > and initiators tend to win conflicts over target subordinates. Highly > aggressive acts such as chases and fights are much less frequent than more > subtle behaviors such as jabs and posturing, vocalizations etc. > > > > So in retrospect, I lament not being more diligent about noting acts of > aggression over the years as Trumpeter Swans took over the neighbourhood. > Did they slowly band together and take over small stretches of the river at > a time? Were there many fights or just a lot of more subtle behaviors that I > missed due to infrequent observations? It would have been a fascinating > long-term study had I woken up earlier. It is now too late as the > neighbourhood has become essentially one of new immigrants re-taking > historical territory lost during the near-extinction era 100 years ago. > Perhaps the Tundra Swans were merely temporary occupants of a niche that was > available for a relatively short period of time. > > > > I think we may see parallel occurrences in human immigration throughout the > world where we see enclaves of minorities arise in new places of residence > along with some general dispersal of immigrants throughout the endemic > population. I am sure that social scientists have studied this extensively > as people with shared cultural backgrounds cluster with others to form > smaller but more homogenous neighbourhoods within the larger mosaic. > Dominance hierarchies are common phenomena in the animal world and these > play out in a high profile way in humans all of the time. Witness the drug > wars in Mexico or Vancouver if you want to bring it close to home, or > international wars throughout the history of mankind on a larger scale. > Sometimes we use subtle cues through words of diplomacy or step up the > signals through "shock and awe" displays of weapons prowess before moving to > all out conflict which is expensive in the form human life. > > > > So back to the lowly Downy Woodpecker and the suet blocks - a microcosm of > the complex world of animal behavior and survival. So many things to observe > and understand - so little time. > > > > > Rick Howie > > Subordinate to all in Kamloops > > > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf > Of Chris Siddle > Sent: February-07-12 6:41 AM > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > > > Based upon the Downy Woodpeckers (at least one male and at least one > female) that came to the suet feeders at our house in Vernon earlier this > winter, I concur with Katherine Shewchuk's observation. > > Chris S. > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Katharine Shewchuk > >wrote: > > > I'm kind of late in participating in this downie discussion, but what I > > have > > noticed is that the downie male and female never feed together. They seem > > to each have their own feeding times. > > > > Katharine > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On > > Behalf > > Of Rick Howie > > Sent: February 5, 2012 10:50 AM > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > > > > > > > > > HI Dianne: phraseology which include "why" animals do things is always > > interesting because it implies rational thought which animal behaviorists > > still tend to shy away from I think, at least in non-primates. I would > > think > > that some of the benefits of social dominance are to maintain breeding > > superiority, territorial preferences and nutrition. So if one is able to > > dominate another bird (male or female) and maintain access to better > > nutrition, it should allow you to be healthier. Ergo, you would likely be > > able to dominate lesser individuals more easily. But does the male have to > > be healthier in order to be an effective dominator or does he need to > > dominate in order just to stay healthy? Are females necessarily not > > healthy? > > > > My interpretation would be that social dominance is used to exclude > females > > in order to achieve one major benefit which is better nutrition. That > > better nutrition may in turn allow them to be more effective at dominating > > the females but the researcher does not say this. Clearly, the social > > dominance mechanisms are effective but is this because of nutrition or > > other > > factors which have allowed those dominance behaviors to work? It is a bit > > of a chicken and egg question, but I would tend to ask what the benefits > of > > the behavior are that has enabled the behavior to evolve and maintain > > itself. It should be a self-sustaining process whereby the benefits feed > > back to the perpetrator in a way which confers traits which allow the > > behavior to be effective. > > > > As a metaphor, if I was better able to survive by punching someone and > > taking his food, it seems beneficial if the food made me bigger so that I > > could punch even more people and take their food and nobody could take my > > food. But perhaps I don't have to be bigger and stronger if I have some > > other way of dominating the person and taking his food. Perhaps I have a > > weapon, or perhaps the look in my eyes or the tone of my voice is > > sufficient > > to intimidate the other person. Size may not be an issue. > > > > So now you need to ask about what the benefits to the species as a whole > > are. Why should males dominate the foraging conditions when females are > > present? Do males need to replace & grow feathers faster for some reason? > > The implications from the research is that these differences may only be > > apparent when food resources are limited. As long as both genders can > > obtain > > adequate nutrition, feather growth is equal. Interesting stuff. > > > > Rick Howie > > > > Kamloops > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > ] > > On > > Behalf > > Of Dianne C. > > Sent: February-05-12 9:49 AM > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > This abstract says that male Downy Woodpeckers exclude females from good > > feeding areas in the winter?! The rotten little AT $&. > > > > (he says males have better nutrion - because they exclude the females? -, > > BUT then he says the males better nutrion makes them exclude the females. > > .??? Or am I interpreting the use of the word 'status' correctly?) > > > > Dianne C. > > > > The Auk C 1989 American Ornithologists' Union , Thomas Grubb > > > > Abstract > > Ptilochronology is the study of the growth rates of feathers by the > > measuring of growth bars. Growth bars are cross-bands on feathers that > > denote 24-h periods of growth. If a rectrix is plucked from a bird that is > > released, and then recaptured more than a month later, the width of the > > growth bars on the replacement (or induced) rectrix can provide a > > day-by-day > > record of the nutritional regime under which the bird had lived. Growth > > rate > > of induced rectrices varies among ages, sexes, and species of birds. I > > measured growth bars on feathers induced in Downy Woodpeckers (Picoides > > pubescens) that wintered in Ohio woodlots without supplemental food. On a > > daily basis, females grew feathers significantly more slowly than males. > In > > other woodlots, where the woodpeckers were given supplementary food, daily > > feather growth did not differ between sexes. I concluded that male Downy > > Woodpeckers normally have a better nutritional status than females during > > the winter. A difference in nutritional status may explain why male Downy > > Woodpeckers use their social dominance to exclude females from parts of > the > > species niche during winter. Ptilochronology could permit new insights > into > > the nutritional ecology of free-ranging birds. Hypotheses that predict > even > > minor variation in the nutritional status of birds should become > accessible > > to testing. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To contact the moderator email > > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > > > Also, consider joining these groups. > > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com > an all BC group. > > If you have pictures to share try this group. > > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the > > pictures. > > Subject: Re: More Waxwings From: "Dianne C." <kestrel374 AT yahoo.ca> Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:01:06 -0000 Half and half, wow! and you got to compare sizes, excellent. ( I definitely must make more effort to look for Cedars in these flocks). Thx for the tips! Dianne C. --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, "A & J Ginns" wrote: > > On Feb 1 there was a flock of BOWAs numbering ~70 over Sutherland Road in NE Penticton. > > On Feb. 7 a flock of 23 CEWAs were on the Penticton Golf & Country Club course. > > Jim Ginns > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bob McKay > To: BCIntbirds > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 4:55 PM > Subject: [bcintbird] Oliver Waxwings > > > > On our way home from Doug's owl outing, Donna Heard and I found a flock of > close to 100 waxwings on Thorpe Road near Sawmill. To our surprise the > flock was roughly 50% Bohemian and 50% Cedars. This percentage mixture was > a first for both of us. After a few minutes of watching most of the flock > flew off together. The few remaining were still a mixed flock. It was > interesting to see the size difference when they sat on a branch side by > side. > Bob McKay > Oliver > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4794 - Release Date: 02/07/12 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: "Dianne C." <kestrel374 AT yahoo.ca> Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 15:49:03 -0000 Maybe it wasn't direct interaction between the swan species that allowed the Trumpeters to take over the Tundra places. maybe it was changes in some aspect of the food supply that made it less favoured by Tundras, so the Trumps could move in to an open space / niche or maybe even the feeding was more favoured by the Trumpeters. In other words passive rather than aggressive. But you are saying the Downy males are definitely actively excluding females. (PS detailed reference to statistal formulae will be actively skipped over and immediately purged from awareness; n=2 is fine). Males 'dominate' in winter feeding, except for house finches, you say! Interesting to know, thx! I watched a cute thing yesterday, with Common Redpolls and should have taken note of gender. Three redpolls were sitting about 12 cm apart on a capped fence. The first one pecked at something at its feet. The second one hopped towards it and flushed the first one away. Then the second one hopped to that spot and pecked. Meanwhile, the third one had moved over. The third one repeated the whole procedure, flush, move over, peck, then it flew off, too! Redpoll dominos. Dianne C. --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, "Rick Howie" wrote: > > Based upon the widely-spaced supporting observations of the differential > feeding times, we might safely conclude that the phenomenon is true (sample > size N =2 ). Now the question becomes that of determining the mechanism. How > does it occur? Is it simply random chance that the birds do not share a > joint feeding period and the two genders are just on different schedules > when they move around their winter home range? Probably not if one observes > this phenomenon over a wide geographic area. So we come back to the notion > that there is some competitive exclusion mechanism at work such as social > dominance. Other experiments have observed that male Downies dominate the > feeding environment (as measured in a number of ways) but if you > experimentally remove the males, females will change their behavior and act > more like males in terms of exploiting their environment. (use larger > diameter branches, foraging heights and other substrate conditions normally > used by males). Removing females in the experiment did not cause males to > change their behavior. This refutes the notion that foraging strategies for > each gender are different due to genetic pre-dispositions. The differences > are due to a social hierarchy whereby males are dominant. > > > > In a related phenomenon, we have noticed over a 25 year period that the > Tundra Swan population wintering on the South Thompson River has been > replaced by Trumpeter Swans whose general population in western North > America has increased dramatically. We postulate that food resources are > limiting and there is only room for so many large white birds on the river. > The "carrying capacity" is limited. But what exactly is the mechanism by > which one species dominates the other to the point of exclusion? I have > never observed prominent direct aggression by the larger Trumpeters chasing > the Tundras away from feeding areas. The mechanisms may be more subtle. Is > there some implied peril that the Trumpeter's larger size causes the smaller > birds to leave? Trumpeters did not arrive en masse one day and simply > overwhelm the population of Tundras. Numbers slowly built up over years and > the Trumpeters were in the distinct minority for a long time, yet the > ultimately gained superiority. > > Dominance hierarchies can actually benefit both the aggressors and the > subordinates by reducing time spent in open conflict and reducing the risk > of injury to either party. The birds spend more time on the important > behavior of feeding for example. I am sure we can all recall the school > bully who you stayed away from based upon his reputation alone. It was not > worth getting a black eye to see if you could steal his marbles unless they > were really nice ones. If you tried, you got a black eye and he took your > marbles if he was as tough as he made out to be. So it would have been > much better if you stayed apart and played with your own marbles in another > part of the school yard. > > > > Tundra Swans have been shown to engage in a graded series of aggressive > behaviors amongst themselves. They range from direct physical attacks > through low intensity, subtle posturing that serve to maintain dominance. > The school bully may only need to hold up his arm and flex his biceps and > look you in the eye to keep you away rather than whacking your noggin. > In Tundra Swans for example, there is a social hierarchy based upon simple > group numbers. Large family groups dominate smaller family groups and groups > dominate smaller numbers of unpaired birds and so forth. The initiators of > aggressive acts are most often part of a larger group (strength in numbers) > and initiators tend to win conflicts over target subordinates. Highly > aggressive acts such as chases and fights are much less frequent than more > subtle behaviors such as jabs and posturing, vocalizations etc. > > > > So in retrospect, I lament not being more diligent about noting acts of > aggression over the years as Trumpeter Swans took over the neighbourhood. > Did they slowly band together and take over small stretches of the river at > a time? Were there many fights or just a lot of more subtle behaviors that I > missed due to infrequent observations? It would have been a fascinating > long-term study had I woken up earlier. It is now too late as the > neighbourhood has become essentially one of new immigrants re-taking > historical territory lost during the near-extinction era 100 years ago. > Perhaps the Tundra Swans were merely temporary occupants of a niche that was > available for a relatively short period of time. > > > > I think we may see parallel occurrences in human immigration throughout the > world where we see enclaves of minorities arise in new places of residence > along with some general dispersal of immigrants throughout the endemic > population. I am sure that social scientists have studied this extensively > as people with shared cultural backgrounds cluster with others to form > smaller but more homogenous neighbourhoods within the larger mosaic. > Dominance hierarchies are common phenomena in the animal world and these > play out in a high profile way in humans all of the time. Witness the drug > wars in Mexico or Vancouver if you want to bring it close to home, or > international wars throughout the history of mankind on a larger scale. > Sometimes we use subtle cues through words of diplomacy or step up the > signals through "shock and awe" displays of weapons prowess before moving to > all out conflict which is expensive in the form human life. > > > > So back to the lowly Downy Woodpecker and the suet blocks - a microcosm of > the complex world of animal behavior and survival. So many things to observe > and understand - so little time. > > > > > Rick Howie > > Subordinate to all in Kamloops > > > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Chris Siddle > Sent: February-07-12 6:41 AM > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > > > Based upon the Downy Woodpeckers (at least one male and at least one > female) that came to the suet feeders at our house in Vernon earlier this > winter, I concur with Katherine Shewchuk's observation. > > Chris S. > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Katharine Shewchuk >wrote: > > > I'm kind of late in participating in this downie discussion, but what I > > have > > noticed is that the downie male and female never feed together. They seem > > to each have their own feeding times. > > > > Katharine > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On > > Behalf > > Of Rick Howie > > Sent: February 5, 2012 10:50 AM > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > > > > > > > > > HI Dianne: phraseology which include "why" animals do things is always > > interesting because it implies rational thought which animal behaviorists > > still tend to shy away from I think, at least in non-primates. I would > > think > > that some of the benefits of social dominance are to maintain breeding > > superiority, territorial preferences and nutrition. So if one is able to > > dominate another bird (male or female) and maintain access to better > > nutrition, it should allow you to be healthier. Ergo, you would likely be > > able to dominate lesser individuals more easily. But does the male have to > > be healthier in order to be an effective dominator or does he need to > > dominate in order just to stay healthy? Are females necessarily not > > healthy? > > > > My interpretation would be that social dominance is used to exclude > females > > in order to achieve one major benefit which is better nutrition. That > > better nutrition may in turn allow them to be more effective at dominating > > the females but the researcher does not say this. Clearly, the social > > dominance mechanisms are effective but is this because of nutrition or > > other > > factors which have allowed those dominance behaviors to work? It is a bit > > of a chicken and egg question, but I would tend to ask what the benefits > of > > the behavior are that has enabled the behavior to evolve and maintain > > itself. It should be a self-sustaining process whereby the benefits feed > > back to the perpetrator in a way which confers traits which allow the > > behavior to be effective. > > > > As a metaphor, if I was better able to survive by punching someone and > > taking his food, it seems beneficial if the food made me bigger so that I > > could punch even more people and take their food and nobody could take my > > food. But perhaps I don't have to be bigger and stronger if I have some > > other way of dominating the person and taking his food. Perhaps I have a > > weapon, or perhaps the look in my eyes or the tone of my voice is > > sufficient > > to intimidate the other person. Size may not be an issue. > > > > So now you need to ask about what the benefits to the species as a whole > > are. Why should males dominate the foraging conditions when females are > > present? Do males need to replace & grow feathers faster for some reason? > > The implications from the research is that these differences may only be > > apparent when food resources are limited. As long as both genders can > > obtain > > adequate nutrition, feather growth is equal. Interesting stuff. > > > > Rick Howie > > > > Kamloops > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > ] > > On > > Behalf > > Of Dianne C. > > Sent: February-05-12 9:49 AM > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > This abstract says that male Downy Woodpeckers exclude females from good > > feeding areas in the winter?! The rotten little AT $&. > > > > (he says males have better nutrion - because they exclude the females? -, > > BUT then he says the males better nutrion makes them exclude the females. > > .??? Or am I interpreting the use of the word 'status' correctly?) > > > > Dianne C. > > > > The Auk C 1989 American Ornithologists' Union , Thomas Grubb > > > > Abstract > > Ptilochronology is the study of the growth rates of feathers by the > > measuring of growth bars. Growth bars are cross-bands on feathers that > > denote 24-h periods of growth. If a rectrix is plucked from a bird that is > > released, and then recaptured more than a month later, the width of the > > growth bars on the replacement (or induced) rectrix can provide a > > day-by-day > > record of the nutritional regime under which the bird had lived. Growth > > rate > > of induced rectrices varies among ages, sexes, and species of birds. I > > measured growth bars on feathers induced in Downy Woodpeckers (Picoides > > pubescens) that wintered in Ohio woodlots without supplemental food. On a > > daily basis, females grew feathers significantly more slowly than males. > In > > other woodlots, where the woodpeckers were given supplementary food, daily > > feather growth did not differ between sexes. I concluded that male Downy > > Woodpeckers normally have a better nutritional status than females during > > the winter. A difference in nutritional status may explain why male Downy > > Woodpeckers use their social dominance to exclude females from parts of > the > > species niche during winter. Ptilochronology could permit new insights > into > > the nutritional ecology of free-ranging birds. Hypotheses that predict > even > > minor variation in the nutritional status of birds should become > accessible > > to testing. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To contact the moderator email > > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > > > Also, consider joining these groups. > > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com > an all BC group. > > If you have pictures to share try this group. > > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the > > pictures. > > Subject: RE: Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 19:58:58 -0800 Dianne et al: thanks for bringing up the fascinating subject of dominance in birds. In most wintering species, males dominate the females, but you may be pleased to hear that in House Finches, the reverse is true. Females dominate during the winter. Such reverse dominance is generally uncommon and rare in passerines, but there is a species that has broken the mold. It also occurs in other Carpodacus finches during the non-breeding season. Even though females are smaller, they are more aggressive and win most of the fights. In fact, the males don't defend food resources but will show defense of the females and nest although some authors disagree on this latter point. If you operate a feeder and have House Finches in attendance, it would be interesting to watch and note whether these generalities hold true. Rick Howie Kamloops From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dianne cooper Sent: February-06-12 8:57 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers Yes. Not having the whole article, I can't figure out his chicken and egg reasoning, if it is that. And yes, it might not be superior nutrition that allows or motivates the male. Yes, maybe the males have to spend more time defending territory than the females do, especially in winter. Maybe, as egg-laying time approaches, the nutritional advantage gained by the male is transferred to his mate by him having a better territory - as a benefit to the species. Maybe in later studies, they were able to differentiate between the males mate or not mate. Interesting. Feeder-watchers may be able to notice this - male at the feeder more often than the female. But the whole ptilochronology must be very useful for all kinds of things like this, basically non-damaging, just pluck a feather and harvest the replacement. Cool! (except the capture part - in winter). D. Cooper [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: More Waxwings From: "A & J Ginns" <ginnsj AT shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 19:44:21 -0800 On Feb 1 there was a flock of BOWAs numbering ~70 over Sutherland Road in NE Penticton. On Feb. 7 a flock of 23 CEWAs were on the Penticton Golf & Country Club course. Jim Ginns ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob McKay To: BCIntbirds Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 4:55 PM Subject: [bcintbird] Oliver Waxwings On our way home from Doug's owl outing, Donna Heard and I found a flock of close to 100 waxwings on Thorpe Road near Sawmill. To our surprise the flock was roughly 50% Bohemian and 50% Cedars. This percentage mixture was a first for both of us. After a few minutes of watching most of the flock flew off together. The few remaining were still a mixed flock. It was interesting to see the size difference when they sat on a branch side by side. Bob McKay Oliver [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4794 - Release Date: 02/07/12 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Oliver Waxwings From: Bob McKay <bomac42 AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 16:55:29 -0800 On our way home from Doug's owl outing, Donna Heard and I found a flock of close to 100 waxwings on Thorpe Road near Sawmill. To our surprise the flock was roughly 50% Bohemian and 50% Cedars. This percentage mixture was a first for both of us. After a few minutes of watching most of the flock flew off together. The few remaining were still a mixed flock. It was interesting to see the size difference when they sat on a branch side by side. Bob McKay Oliver [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Owls From: "douglasbrown01" <douglasbrown01 AT yahoo.ca> Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 00:34:27 -0000 Hi all; I took my Tuesday birding group into the Osoyoos Oxbows today to try and find some of the owls that are in there. We went into the woods northwest of the Road 22 bridge trying first for the Long-eared Owl that was seen Friday and Saturday. No luck on the Long-eared but we did find the Barn Owl near where the Long-eared has been hanging out. We worked our way north through the woods and found a pair of Great Horned Owls. Finally we got to the famous juniper where the Barn Owl was seen Saturday and found the Northern Saw-whet perched on one of his favorite branches. He just quietly sat there as people took pictures from 10 feet away. All in all a very successful outing. Doug Brown Osoyoos ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: adult Iceland Gull in Penticton From: Laure Neish <natureneish AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 12:36:27 -0800 This adult Larus glaucoides was with a group of gulls at the "Peach" mid-morning today. It later flew over to join a larger flock of gulls resting on the ice in front of the Penticton yacht club building, where there was also a Glaucous Gull and the dark "Western-type" GW Gull. I don't know too much about these gulls and now that I've posted, will look at my guides, but is this something other than a Kumlein's? http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p474972890/h29724e76#h29724e76 -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 09:54:41 -0800 So Amanda: can we conclude that the feeder occupied by the bully male is the best place for food? Where do the other Downies hang out when he is present? Do they come to the feeder when he leaves.? I think you are confirming that there is still a dominance hierarchy in effect around the small area of the feeder itself. He may dominate (or attempt to) other preferred sites out in the forest as well. Rick Howie From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amanda.lahaie Sent: February-07-12 8:21 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers There are three Downy Woodpeckers that visit our feeders. Two are males and one is a female and all three have been here at the same time. The one male is a bully and will chase the other two away from the feeder, but if they're all in different areas they don't bother with one another. Amanda Princeton --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com , Chris Siddle wrote: > > Based upon the Downy Woodpeckers (at least one male and at least one > female) that came to the suet feeders at our house in Vernon earlier this > winter, I concur with Katherine Shewchuk's observation. > > Chris S. > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Katharine Shewchuk wrote: > > > I'm kind of late in participating in this downie discussion, but what I > > have > > noticed is that the downie male and female never feed together. They seem > > to each have their own feeding times. > > > > Katharine > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On > > Behalf > > Of Rick Howie > > Sent: February 5, 2012 10:50 AM > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > > > > > > > > > HI Dianne: phraseology which include "why" animals do things is always > > interesting because it implies rational thought which animal behaviorists > > still tend to shy away from I think, at least in non-primates. I would > > think > > that some of the benefits of social dominance are to maintain breeding > > superiority, territorial preferences and nutrition. So if one is able to > > dominate another bird (male or female) and maintain access to better > > nutrition, it should allow you to be healthier. Ergo, you would likely be > > able to dominate lesser individuals more easily. But does the male have to > > be healthier in order to be an effective dominator or does he need to > > dominate in order just to stay healthy? Are females necessarily not > > healthy? > > > > My interpretation would be that social dominance is used to exclude females > > in order to achieve one major benefit which is better nutrition. That > > better nutrition may in turn allow them to be more effective at dominating > > the females but the researcher does not say this. Clearly, the social > > dominance mechanisms are effective but is this because of nutrition or > > other > > factors which have allowed those dominance behaviors to work? It is a bit > > of a chicken and egg question, but I would tend to ask what the benefits of > > the behavior are that has enabled the behavior to evolve and maintain > > itself. It should be a self-sustaining process whereby the benefits feed > > back to the perpetrator in a way which confers traits which allow the > > behavior to be effective. > > > > As a metaphor, if I was better able to survive by punching someone and > > taking his food, it seems beneficial if the food made me bigger so that I > > could punch even more people and take their food and nobody could take my > > food. But perhaps I don't have to be bigger and stronger if I have some > > other way of dominating the person and taking his food. Perhaps I have a > > weapon, or perhaps the look in my eyes or the tone of my voice is > > sufficient > > to intimidate the other person. Size may not be an issue. > > > > So now you need to ask about what the benefits to the species as a whole > > are. Why should males dominate the foraging conditions when females are > > present? Do males need to replace & grow feathers faster for some reason? > > The implications from the research is that these differences may only be > > apparent when food resources are limited. As long as both genders can > > obtain > > adequate nutrition, feather growth is equal. Interesting stuff. > > > > Rick Howie > > > > Kamloops > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] > > On > > Behalf > > Of Dianne C. > > Sent: February-05-12 9:49 AM > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > This abstract says that male Downy Woodpeckers exclude females from good > > feeding areas in the winter?! The rotten little AT $&. > > > > (he says males have better nutrion - because they exclude the females? -, > > BUT then he says the males better nutrion makes them exclude the females. > > .??? Or am I interpreting the use of the word 'status' correctly?) > > > > Dianne C. > > > > The Auk C 1989 American Ornithologists' Union , Thomas Grubb > > > > Abstract > > Ptilochronology is the study of the growth rates of feathers by the > > measuring of growth bars. Growth bars are cross-bands on feathers that > > denote 24-h periods of growth. If a rectrix is plucked from a bird that is > > released, and then recaptured more than a month later, the width of the > > growth bars on the replacement (or induced) rectrix can provide a > > day-by-day > > record of the nutritional regime under which the bird had lived. Growth > > rate > > of induced rectrices varies among ages, sexes, and species of birds. I > > measured growth bars on feathers induced in Downy Woodpeckers (Picoides > > pubescens) that wintered in Ohio woodlots without supplemental food. On a > > daily basis, females grew feathers significantly more slowly than males. In > > other woodlots, where the woodpeckers were given supplementary food, daily > > feather growth did not differ between sexes. I concluded that male Downy > > Woodpeckers normally have a better nutritional status than females during > > the winter. A difference in nutritional status may explain why male Downy > > Woodpeckers use their social dominance to exclude females from parts of the > > species niche during winter. Ptilochronology could permit new insights into > > the nutritional ecology of free-ranging birds. Hypotheses that predict even > > minor variation in the nutritional status of birds should become accessible > > to testing. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To contact the moderator email > > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > > Also, consider joining these groups. > > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > > If you have pictures to share try this group. > > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the > > pictures. > > Subject: RE: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 09:11:32 -0800 Based upon the widely-spaced supporting observations of the differential feeding times, we might safely conclude that the phenomenon is true (sample size N =2 ). Now the question becomes that of determining the mechanism. How does it occur? Is it simply random chance that the birds do not share a joint feeding period and the two genders are just on different schedules when they move around their winter home range? Probably not if one observes this phenomenon over a wide geographic area. So we come back to the notion that there is some competitive exclusion mechanism at work such as social dominance. Other experiments have observed that male Downies dominate the feeding environment (as measured in a number of ways) but if you experimentally remove the males, females will change their behavior and act more like males in terms of exploiting their environment. (use larger diameter branches, foraging heights and other substrate conditions normally used by males). Removing females in the experiment did not cause males to change their behavior. This refutes the notion that foraging strategies for each gender are different due to genetic pre-dispositions. The differences are due to a social hierarchy whereby males are dominant. In a related phenomenon, we have noticed over a 25 year period that the Tundra Swan population wintering on the South Thompson River has been replaced by Trumpeter Swans whose general population in western North America has increased dramatically. We postulate that food resources are limiting and there is only room for so many large white birds on the river. The "carrying capacity" is limited. But what exactly is the mechanism by which one species dominates the other to the point of exclusion? I have never observed prominent direct aggression by the larger Trumpeters chasing the Tundras away from feeding areas. The mechanisms may be more subtle. Is there some implied peril that the Trumpeter's larger size causes the smaller birds to leave? Trumpeters did not arrive en masse one day and simply overwhelm the population of Tundras. Numbers slowly built up over years and the Trumpeters were in the distinct minority for a long time, yet the ultimately gained superiority. Dominance hierarchies can actually benefit both the aggressors and the subordinates by reducing time spent in open conflict and reducing the risk of injury to either party. The birds spend more time on the important behavior of feeding for example. I am sure we can all recall the school bully who you stayed away from based upon his reputation alone. It was not worth getting a black eye to see if you could steal his marbles unless they were really nice ones. If you tried, you got a black eye and he took your marbles if he was as tough as he made out to be. So it would have been much better if you stayed apart and played with your own marbles in another part of the school yard. Tundra Swans have been shown to engage in a graded series of aggressive behaviors amongst themselves. They range from direct physical attacks through low intensity, subtle posturing that serve to maintain dominance. The school bully may only need to hold up his arm and flex his biceps and look you in the eye to keep you away rather than whacking your noggin. In Tundra Swans for example, there is a social hierarchy based upon simple group numbers. Large family groups dominate smaller family groups and groups dominate smaller numbers of unpaired birds and so forth. The initiators of aggressive acts are most often part of a larger group (strength in numbers) and initiators tend to win conflicts over target subordinates. Highly aggressive acts such as chases and fights are much less frequent than more subtle behaviors such as jabs and posturing, vocalizations etc. So in retrospect, I lament not being more diligent about noting acts of aggression over the years as Trumpeter Swans took over the neighbourhood. Did they slowly band together and take over small stretches of the river at a time? Were there many fights or just a lot of more subtle behaviors that I missed due to infrequent observations? It would have been a fascinating long-term study had I woken up earlier. It is now too late as the neighbourhood has become essentially one of new immigrants re-taking historical territory lost during the near-extinction era 100 years ago. Perhaps the Tundra Swans were merely temporary occupants of a niche that was available for a relatively short period of time. I think we may see parallel occurrences in human immigration throughout the world where we see enclaves of minorities arise in new places of residence along with some general dispersal of immigrants throughout the endemic population. I am sure that social scientists have studied this extensively as people with shared cultural backgrounds cluster with others to form smaller but more homogenous neighbourhoods within the larger mosaic. Dominance hierarchies are common phenomena in the animal world and these play out in a high profile way in humans all of the time. Witness the drug wars in Mexico or Vancouver if you want to bring it close to home, or international wars throughout the history of mankind on a larger scale. Sometimes we use subtle cues through words of diplomacy or step up the signals through "shock and awe" displays of weapons prowess before moving to all out conflict which is expensive in the form human life. So back to the lowly Downy Woodpecker and the suet blocks - a microcosm of the complex world of animal behavior and survival. So many things to observe and understand - so little time. Rick Howie Subordinate to all in Kamloops From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Siddle Sent: February-07-12 6:41 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers Based upon the Downy Woodpeckers (at least one male and at least one female) that came to the suet feeders at our house in Vernon earlier this winter, I concur with Katherine Shewchuk's observation. Chris S. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Katharine Shewchuk >wrote: > I'm kind of late in participating in this downie discussion, but what I > have > noticed is that the downie male and female never feed together. They seem > to each have their own feeding times. > > Katharine > > > > _____ > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On > Behalf > Of Rick Howie > Sent: February 5, 2012 10:50 AM > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > > > HI Dianne: phraseology which include "why" animals do things is always > interesting because it implies rational thought which animal behaviorists > still tend to shy away from I think, at least in non-primates. I would > think > that some of the benefits of social dominance are to maintain breeding > superiority, territorial preferences and nutrition. So if one is able to > dominate another bird (male or female) and maintain access to better > nutrition, it should allow you to be healthier. Ergo, you would likely be > able to dominate lesser individuals more easily. But does the male have to > be healthier in order to be an effective dominator or does he need to > dominate in order just to stay healthy? Are females necessarily not > healthy? > > My interpretation would be that social dominance is used to exclude females > in order to achieve one major benefit which is better nutrition. That > better nutrition may in turn allow them to be more effective at dominating > the females but the researcher does not say this. Clearly, the social > dominance mechanisms are effective but is this because of nutrition or > other > factors which have allowed those dominance behaviors to work? It is a bit > of a chicken and egg question, but I would tend to ask what the benefits of > the behavior are that has enabled the behavior to evolve and maintain > itself. It should be a self-sustaining process whereby the benefits feed > back to the perpetrator in a way which confers traits which allow the > behavior to be effective. > > As a metaphor, if I was better able to survive by punching someone and > taking his food, it seems beneficial if the food made me bigger so that I > could punch even more people and take their food and nobody could take my > food. But perhaps I don't have to be bigger and stronger if I have some > other way of dominating the person and taking his food. Perhaps I have a > weapon, or perhaps the look in my eyes or the tone of my voice is > sufficient > to intimidate the other person. Size may not be an issue. > > So now you need to ask about what the benefits to the species as a whole > are. Why should males dominate the foraging conditions when females are > present? Do males need to replace & grow feathers faster for some reason? > The implications from the research is that these differences may only be > apparent when food resources are limited. As long as both genders can > obtain > adequate nutrition, feather growth is equal. Interesting stuff. > > Rick Howie > > Kamloops > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] > On > Behalf > Of Dianne C. > Sent: February-05-12 9:49 AM > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > This abstract says that male Downy Woodpeckers exclude females from good > feeding areas in the winter?! The rotten little AT $&. > > (he says males have better nutrion - because they exclude the females? -, > BUT then he says the males better nutrion makes them exclude the females. > .??? Or am I interpreting the use of the word 'status' correctly?) > > Dianne C. > > The Auk C 1989 American Ornithologists' Union , Thomas Grubb > > Abstract > Ptilochronology is the study of the growth rates of feathers by the > measuring of growth bars. Growth bars are cross-bands on feathers that > denote 24-h periods of growth. If a rectrix is plucked from a bird that is > released, and then recaptured more than a month later, the width of the > growth bars on the replacement (or induced) rectrix can provide a > day-by-day > record of the nutritional regime under which the bird had lived. Growth > rate > of induced rectrices varies among ages, sexes, and species of birds. I > measured growth bars on feathers induced in Downy Woodpeckers (Picoides > pubescens) that wintered in Ohio woodlots without supplemental food. On a > daily basis, females grew feathers significantly more slowly than males. In > other woodlots, where the woodpeckers were given supplementary food, daily > feather growth did not differ between sexes. I concluded that male Downy > Woodpeckers normally have a better nutritional status than females during > the winter. A difference in nutritional status may explain why male Downy > Woodpeckers use their social dominance to exclude females from parts of the > species niche during winter. Ptilochronology could permit new insights into > the nutritional ecology of free-ranging birds. Hypotheses that predict even > minor variation in the nutritional status of birds should become accessible > to testing. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To contact the moderator email > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > Also, consider joining these groups. > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > If you have pictures to share try this group. > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the > pictures. > Subject: Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: "amanda.lahaie" <amlahaie AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:20:42 -0000 There are three Downy Woodpeckers that visit our feeders. Two are males and one is a female and all three have been here at the same time. The one male is a bully and will chase the other two away from the feeder, but if they're all in different areas they don't bother with one another. Amanda Princeton --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, Chris Siddle wrote: > > Based upon the Downy Woodpeckers (at least one male and at least one > female) that came to the suet feeders at our house in Vernon earlier this > winter, I concur with Katherine Shewchuk's observation. > > Chris S. > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Katharine Shewchuk wrote: > > > I'm kind of late in participating in this downie discussion, but what I > > have > > noticed is that the downie male and female never feed together. They seem > > to each have their own feeding times. > > > > Katharine > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf > > Of Rick Howie > > Sent: February 5, 2012 10:50 AM > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > > > > > > > > > HI Dianne: phraseology which include "why" animals do things is always > > interesting because it implies rational thought which animal behaviorists > > still tend to shy away from I think, at least in non-primates. I would > > think > > that some of the benefits of social dominance are to maintain breeding > > superiority, territorial preferences and nutrition. So if one is able to > > dominate another bird (male or female) and maintain access to better > > nutrition, it should allow you to be healthier. Ergo, you would likely be > > able to dominate lesser individuals more easily. But does the male have to > > be healthier in order to be an effective dominator or does he need to > > dominate in order just to stay healthy? Are females necessarily not > > healthy? > > > > My interpretation would be that social dominance is used to exclude females > > in order to achieve one major benefit which is better nutrition. That > > better nutrition may in turn allow them to be more effective at dominating > > the females but the researcher does not say this. Clearly, the social > > dominance mechanisms are effective but is this because of nutrition or > > other > > factors which have allowed those dominance behaviors to work? It is a bit > > of a chicken and egg question, but I would tend to ask what the benefits of > > the behavior are that has enabled the behavior to evolve and maintain > > itself. It should be a self-sustaining process whereby the benefits feed > > back to the perpetrator in a way which confers traits which allow the > > behavior to be effective. > > > > As a metaphor, if I was better able to survive by punching someone and > > taking his food, it seems beneficial if the food made me bigger so that I > > could punch even more people and take their food and nobody could take my > > food. But perhaps I don't have to be bigger and stronger if I have some > > other way of dominating the person and taking his food. Perhaps I have a > > weapon, or perhaps the look in my eyes or the tone of my voice is > > sufficient > > to intimidate the other person. Size may not be an issue. > > > > So now you need to ask about what the benefits to the species as a whole > > are. Why should males dominate the foraging conditions when females are > > present? Do males need to replace & grow feathers faster for some reason? > > The implications from the research is that these differences may only be > > apparent when food resources are limited. As long as both genders can > > obtain > > adequate nutrition, feather growth is equal. Interesting stuff. > > > > Rick Howie > > > > Kamloops > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] > > On > > Behalf > > Of Dianne C. > > Sent: February-05-12 9:49 AM > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > This abstract says that male Downy Woodpeckers exclude females from good > > feeding areas in the winter?! The rotten little AT $&. > > > > (he says males have better nutrion - because they exclude the females? -, > > BUT then he says the males better nutrion makes them exclude the females. > > .??? Or am I interpreting the use of the word 'status' correctly?) > > > > Dianne C. > > > > The Auk C 1989 American Ornithologists' Union , Thomas Grubb > > > > Abstract > > Ptilochronology is the study of the growth rates of feathers by the > > measuring of growth bars. Growth bars are cross-bands on feathers that > > denote 24-h periods of growth. If a rectrix is plucked from a bird that is > > released, and then recaptured more than a month later, the width of the > > growth bars on the replacement (or induced) rectrix can provide a > > day-by-day > > record of the nutritional regime under which the bird had lived. Growth > > rate > > of induced rectrices varies among ages, sexes, and species of birds. I > > measured growth bars on feathers induced in Downy Woodpeckers (Picoides > > pubescens) that wintered in Ohio woodlots without supplemental food. On a > > daily basis, females grew feathers significantly more slowly than males. In > > other woodlots, where the woodpeckers were given supplementary food, daily > > feather growth did not differ between sexes. I concluded that male Downy > > Woodpeckers normally have a better nutritional status than females during > > the winter. A difference in nutritional status may explain why male Downy > > Woodpeckers use their social dominance to exclude females from parts of the > > species niche during winter. Ptilochronology could permit new insights into > > the nutritional ecology of free-ranging birds. Hypotheses that predict even > > minor variation in the nutritional status of birds should become accessible > > to testing. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To contact the moderator email > > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > > Also, consider joining these groups. > > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > > If you have pictures to share try this group. > > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the > > pictures. > > Subject: Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: Chris Siddle <chris.siddle AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 06:40:53 -0800 Based upon the Downy Woodpeckers (at least one male and at least one female) that came to the suet feeders at our house in Vernon earlier this winter, I concur with Katherine Shewchuk's observation. Chris S. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Katharine Shewchuk wrote: > I'm kind of late in participating in this downie discussion, but what I > have > noticed is that the downie male and female never feed together. They seem > to each have their own feeding times. > > Katharine > > > > _____ > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf > Of Rick Howie > Sent: February 5, 2012 10:50 AM > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > > > > > HI Dianne: phraseology which include "why" animals do things is always > interesting because it implies rational thought which animal behaviorists > still tend to shy away from I think, at least in non-primates. I would > think > that some of the benefits of social dominance are to maintain breeding > superiority, territorial preferences and nutrition. So if one is able to > dominate another bird (male or female) and maintain access to better > nutrition, it should allow you to be healthier. Ergo, you would likely be > able to dominate lesser individuals more easily. But does the male have to > be healthier in order to be an effective dominator or does he need to > dominate in order just to stay healthy? Are females necessarily not > healthy? > > My interpretation would be that social dominance is used to exclude females > in order to achieve one major benefit which is better nutrition. That > better nutrition may in turn allow them to be more effective at dominating > the females but the researcher does not say this. Clearly, the social > dominance mechanisms are effective but is this because of nutrition or > other > factors which have allowed those dominance behaviors to work? It is a bit > of a chicken and egg question, but I would tend to ask what the benefits of > the behavior are that has enabled the behavior to evolve and maintain > itself. It should be a self-sustaining process whereby the benefits feed > back to the perpetrator in a way which confers traits which allow the > behavior to be effective. > > As a metaphor, if I was better able to survive by punching someone and > taking his food, it seems beneficial if the food made me bigger so that I > could punch even more people and take their food and nobody could take my > food. But perhaps I don't have to be bigger and stronger if I have some > other way of dominating the person and taking his food. Perhaps I have a > weapon, or perhaps the look in my eyes or the tone of my voice is > sufficient > to intimidate the other person. Size may not be an issue. > > So now you need to ask about what the benefits to the species as a whole > are. Why should males dominate the foraging conditions when females are > present? Do males need to replace & grow feathers faster for some reason? > The implications from the research is that these differences may only be > apparent when food resources are limited. As long as both genders can > obtain > adequate nutrition, feather growth is equal. Interesting stuff. > > Rick Howie > > Kamloops > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] > On > Behalf > Of Dianne C. > Sent: February-05-12 9:49 AM > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers > > This abstract says that male Downy Woodpeckers exclude females from good > feeding areas in the winter?! The rotten little AT $&. > > (he says males have better nutrion - because they exclude the females? -, > BUT then he says the males better nutrion makes them exclude the females. > .??? Or am I interpreting the use of the word 'status' correctly?) > > Dianne C. > > The Auk C 1989 American Ornithologists' Union , Thomas Grubb > > Abstract > Ptilochronology is the study of the growth rates of feathers by the > measuring of growth bars. Growth bars are cross-bands on feathers that > denote 24-h periods of growth. If a rectrix is plucked from a bird that is > released, and then recaptured more than a month later, the width of the > growth bars on the replacement (or induced) rectrix can provide a > day-by-day > record of the nutritional regime under which the bird had lived. Growth > rate > of induced rectrices varies among ages, sexes, and species of birds. I > measured growth bars on feathers induced in Downy Woodpeckers (Picoides > pubescens) that wintered in Ohio woodlots without supplemental food. On a > daily basis, females grew feathers significantly more slowly than males. In > other woodlots, where the woodpeckers were given supplementary food, daily > feather growth did not differ between sexes. I concluded that male Downy > Woodpeckers normally have a better nutritional status than females during > the winter. A difference in nutritional status may explain why male Downy > Woodpeckers use their social dominance to exclude females from parts of the > species niche during winter. Ptilochronology could permit new insights into > the nutritional ecology of free-ranging birds. Hypotheses that predict even > minor variation in the nutritional status of birds should become accessible > to testing. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To contact the moderator email > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > Also, consider joining these groups. > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > If you have pictures to share try this group. > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the > pictures. > Subject: RE: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 21:22:08 -0800 I don't think that the researcher implied that other birds do not have a feeding dominance. I see this more a study leading to the conclusion that male Downies do in fact do enjoy superior nutrition as demonstrated by a faster growth rate of feathers. The prime study may have been to test whether there is a difference in nutritional status. Once this is determined, the secondary question relates to how does this difference come about? The nutritional benefits accrued may be a good reason to use social dominance behavior to exclude competitors. This process of excluding other birds from part of the niche has obviously been noted so the author postulates that there may be a link between this and nutrition but even if so, this may not be the only reason that they do this. Perhaps we can think of other reasons? In this case study, the focus was on females, but perhaps they try to keep males away as well. His research may not have looked at that but as you say Carol, many species defend prime feeding areas. With behavioral activities, one can ask the cost/benefit question. What does the animal get out of the behavior by expending the costs (energy, physical risks from confrontation, etc) to undertake the behavior? Rick From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carol Sent: February-06-12 8:38 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers I would kind of disagree with his interpretation regarding feeding areas...The male Downy is territorial like a lot of the birds. They all try to pick and defend the best feeding areas: From the little chickadee up the bald eagle. Only the social birds such waxwings, finches siskins etc. feed together.. From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dianne C. Sent: February-05-12 9:49 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers This abstract says that male Downy Woodpeckers exclude females from good feeding areas in the winter?! The rotten little AT $&. (he says males have better nutrion - because they exclude the females? -, BUT then he says the males better nutrion makes them exclude the females. .??? Or am I interpreting the use of the word 'status' correctly?) Dianne C. The Auk C 1989 American Ornithologists' Union , Thomas Grubb Abstract Ptilochronology is the study of the growth rates of feathers by the measuring of growth bars. Growth bars are cross-bands on feathers that denote 24-h periods of growth. If a rectrix is plucked from a bird that is released, and then recaptured more than a month later, the width of the growth bars on the replacement (or induced) rectrix can provide a day-by-day record of the nutritional regime under which the bird had lived. Growth rate of induced rectrices varies among ages, sexes, and species of birds. I measured growth bars on feathers induced in Downy Woodpeckers (Picoides pubescens) that wintered in Ohio woodlots without supplemental food. On a daily basis, females grew feathers significantly more slowly than males. In other woodlots, where the woodpeckers were given supplementary food, daily feather growth did not differ between sexes. I concluded that male Downy Woodpeckers normally have a better nutritional status than females during the winter. A difference in nutritional status may explain why male Downy Woodpeckers use their social dominance to exclude females from parts of the species niche during winter. Ptilochronology could permit new insights into the nutritional ecology of free-ranging birds. Hypotheses that predict even minor variation in the nutritional status of birds should become accessible to testing. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: dianne cooper <kestrel374 AT yahoo.ca> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 21:57:03 -0700 Yes. Not having the whole article, I can't figure out his chicken and egg reasoning, if it is that. And yes, it might not be superior nutrition that allows or motivates the male. Yes, maybe the males have to spend more time defending territory than the females do, especially in winter. Maybe, as egg-laying time approaches, the nutritional advantage gained by the male is transferred to his mate by him having a better territory - as a benefit to the species. Maybe in later studies, they were able to differentiate between the males mate or not mate. Interesting. Feeder-watchers may be able to notice this - male at the feeder more often than the female. But the whole ptilochronology must be very useful for all kinds of things like this, basically non-damaging, just pluck a feather and harvest the replacement. Cool! (except the capture part - in winter). D. Cooper ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: "Carol" <ctaffy2 AT shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 20:38:26 -0800 I would kind of disagree with his interpretation regarding feeding areas...The male Downy is territorial like a lot of the birds. They all try to pick and defend the best feeding areas: From the little chickadee up the bald eagle. Only the social birds such waxwings, finches siskins etc. feed together.. From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dianne C. Sent: February-05-12 9:49 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers This abstract says that male Downy Woodpeckers exclude females from good feeding areas in the winter?! The rotten little AT $&. (he says males have better nutrion - because they exclude the females? -, BUT then he says the males better nutrion makes them exclude the females. .??? Or am I interpreting the use of the word 'status' correctly?) Dianne C. The Auk C 1989 American Ornithologists' Union , Thomas Grubb Abstract Ptilochronology is the study of the growth rates of feathers by the measuring of growth bars. Growth bars are cross-bands on feathers that denote 24-h periods of growth. If a rectrix is plucked from a bird that is released, and then recaptured more than a month later, the width of the growth bars on the replacement (or induced) rectrix can provide a day-by-day record of the nutritional regime under which the bird had lived. Growth rate of induced rectrices varies among ages, sexes, and species of birds. I measured growth bars on feathers induced in Downy Woodpeckers (Picoides pubescens) that wintered in Ohio woodlots without supplemental food. On a daily basis, females grew feathers significantly more slowly than males. In other woodlots, where the woodpeckers were given supplementary food, daily feather growth did not differ between sexes. I concluded that male Downy Woodpeckers normally have a better nutritional status than females during the winter. A difference in nutritional status may explain why male Downy Woodpeckers use their social dominance to exclude females from parts of the species niche during winter. Ptilochronology could permit new insights into the nutritional ecology of free-ranging birds. Hypotheses that predict even minor variation in the nutritional status of birds should become accessible to testing. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: "Katharine Shewchuk" <ka_shewchuk AT telus.net> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 20:32:31 -0800 I'm kind of late in participating in this downie discussion, but what I have noticed is that the downie male and female never feed together. They seem to each have their own feeding times. Katharine _____ From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Howie Sent: February 5, 2012 10:50 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers HI Dianne: phraseology which include "why" animals do things is always interesting because it implies rational thought which animal behaviorists still tend to shy away from I think, at least in non-primates. I would think that some of the benefits of social dominance are to maintain breeding superiority, territorial preferences and nutrition. So if one is able to dominate another bird (male or female) and maintain access to better nutrition, it should allow you to be healthier. Ergo, you would likely be able to dominate lesser individuals more easily. But does the male have to be healthier in order to be an effective dominator or does he need to dominate in order just to stay healthy? Are females necessarily not healthy? My interpretation would be that social dominance is used to exclude females in order to achieve one major benefit which is better nutrition. That better nutrition may in turn allow them to be more effective at dominating the females but the researcher does not say this. Clearly, the social dominance mechanisms are effective but is this because of nutrition or other factors which have allowed those dominance behaviors to work? It is a bit of a chicken and egg question, but I would tend to ask what the benefits of the behavior are that has enabled the behavior to evolve and maintain itself. It should be a self-sustaining process whereby the benefits feed back to the perpetrator in a way which confers traits which allow the behavior to be effective. As a metaphor, if I was better able to survive by punching someone and taking his food, it seems beneficial if the food made me bigger so that I could punch even more people and take their food and nobody could take my food. But perhaps I don't have to be bigger and stronger if I have some other way of dominating the person and taking his food. Perhaps I have a weapon, or perhaps the look in my eyes or the tone of my voice is sufficient to intimidate the other person. Size may not be an issue. So now you need to ask about what the benefits to the species as a whole are. Why should males dominate the foraging conditions when females are present? Do males need to replace & grow feathers faster for some reason? The implications from the research is that these differences may only be apparent when food resources are limited. As long as both genders can obtain adequate nutrition, feather growth is equal. Interesting stuff. Rick Howie Kamloops From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dianne C. Sent: February-05-12 9:49 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers This abstract says that male Downy Woodpeckers exclude females from good feeding areas in the winter?! The rotten little AT $&. (he says males have better nutrion - because they exclude the females? -, BUT then he says the males better nutrion makes them exclude the females. .??? Or am I interpreting the use of the word 'status' correctly?) Dianne C. The Auk C 1989 American Ornithologists' Union , Thomas Grubb Abstract Ptilochronology is the study of the growth rates of feathers by the measuring of growth bars. Growth bars are cross-bands on feathers that denote 24-h periods of growth. If a rectrix is plucked from a bird that is released, and then recaptured more than a month later, the width of the growth bars on the replacement (or induced) rectrix can provide a day-by-day record of the nutritional regime under which the bird had lived. Growth rate of induced rectrices varies among ages, sexes, and species of birds. I measured growth bars on feathers induced in Downy Woodpeckers (Picoides pubescens) that wintered in Ohio woodlots without supplemental food. On a daily basis, females grew feathers significantly more slowly than males. In other woodlots, where the woodpeckers were given supplementary food, daily feather growth did not differ between sexes. I concluded that male Downy Woodpeckers normally have a better nutritional status than females during the winter. A difference in nutritional status may explain why male Downy Woodpeckers use their social dominance to exclude females from parts of the species niche during winter. Ptilochronology could permit new insights into the nutritional ecology of free-ranging birds. Hypotheses that predict even minor variation in the nutritional status of birds should become accessible to testing. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Philpott Rd From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 18:58:08 -0800 Birders, This afternoon I headed up out of the valley fog layer to Philpott Rd in Joe Rich, E. of Kelowna. On the way I had a nice ROUGH-LEGGED HAWK along Hwy 33 not far from Goudie Rd turnoff. Along Philpott Rd, I searched for Chestnut-backed Chickadees for over an hour. Finally I found a group of three CHESTNUT-BACKED CHICKADEES about 10 km from Hwy 33 in the woods. They were moving with a group of RED-BREASTED NUTHATCH, BLACK-CAPPED and MOUNTAIN CHICKADEES. An AMERICAN THREE-TOED WOODPECKER was calling here, as were two NORTHERN PYGMY-OWLS and a small flock of RED CROSSBILLS. As I made my way back towards the Hwy I got HAIRY WOODPECKER, PINE GROSBEAK and GOLDEN-CROWNED KINGLET. On my way back down to Kelowna, I pulled off at Pyman Rd on the grasslands and had a hundred or so COMMON REDPOLLS in the weeds here. An imm. NORTHERN HARRIER and a male AMERICAN KESTREL were cruising about, keeping the redpolls moving. Chris Charlesworth Kelowna., BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Island From: "Thor" <thormanson AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 21:58:16 -0000 Hi Chris: I took that trip about 4 years ago in the same month. Black vented Shearwaters were seen, but not in great numbers. If I was a betting man, I would say your murrelets were Xantus' ( Scrippsi ). They do breed on the Channel Islands, but are rare in the winter, although I am told a few stick around and, I did see a couple in my February crossing. I can pretty well guarantee they were not Craveri's, as they have not been seen in California waters for a few years now. Seekers of Craveri's usually take pelagic trips out of San Diego in the late summer, and fall when the ocean temps are at their max, as they generally like water temps above 60 degrees F. A nautical map of the U.S./Mexican border shows the border dips down south below the land border, and is actually off the Baja, and this is where the Craveri's are usually found. The conventional explanation is that with two La Nina years in a row that warm water off the west coast has not made it up to U.S. territory, at least not extensively. Good birding, Thor Thor Manson Oliver, B.C. --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, Chris Siddle wrote: > > Hi birders, > > This morning I would like to tell you about our trip to Santa Cruz Island > off Santa Barbara for one of two birds endemic to California. Several years > ago the scrub jay resident to Santa Cruz Island was elevated to full > species status and instantly the island, once a sad place of environmental > desecration, became a popular destination with listers. The island belongs > in part to the federal government as a national park and to the Nature > Conservancy as one of their jewels in the crown of that organization. > Volunteers and professionals have worked hard over the last couple of > decades to rid the island of feral livestock, rats, and other pests, and > return the island to something resembling its original state. It's an > ongoing process. > > As a side note, for an interesting fictional work about the Channel Islands > see T.C. Doyle's recent novel When the Killing is Done. > > One company, Island Packers, out of Ventura, runs day trips to Santa Cruz > for about $85.00 or thereabouts per person. The passage across Santa > Barbara Channel takes a couple of hours and on the day we took it, was very > calm so sea-sickness wasn't an issue. Maybe the double hulls of the > catamaran help with stability as well. Boating birders may wish to comment. > > I had read another birder's comments about the trip he took in January 2011 > on a site called 10,000 Birds. He had seen Black-vented Shearwaters on his > passage, so I expected to see this species on ours. Nope. Not a one. Maybe > the calm waters had something to do with this bird's absence, or maybe > Black-vents are having an off-year at the moment. Pelagic birders like the > mighty Force, as I call Mike, might like to comment. > > What we did see were a few Pacific Loons, a Red-throated Loon (in Ventura > harbour), a Horned Grebe, an Eared Grebe, many Western Grebes, several > Clark's Grebes, and a Red-necked Grebe, Brown Pelicans, Brandt's > Cormorants, one Pelagic Cormorants, a couple of Double-crested Cormorants, > Common Murres, a few Rhinocerus (spelling?) Auklets, and a pair of very > small black above and white below alcids, with long wings in fluttery fast > flight, splashing down together to land. These birds I was sorely tempted > to call Xantus' Murrelets, but didn't feel that I could given the strongish > possibilities the birds were something else - definitely not Ancients or > Cassin's (shades of gray weren't present) but possibly Craveri's, I > suppose. It was terrible how so many of today's birds flew directly away > from the boat and me standing mid-way along the port rail. Avast, and the > devil take ya, you miserable feathered sprites of neptune! (imagine Johnny > Depp's Jack voice here.) > > Other passage birds included Heermann's Gulls, California Gulls, and > Western Gulls (and Doug Brown is right - Westerns do have tiny eyes in big > blank faces. My apologies for doubting the field mark), a pair of Surf > Scoters, and one Pigeon Guillemot. Sea mammals included lots of California > Sea Lions sporting around in groups of 3-4 animals, lolling at the surface > with their flippers raised and 1-3 Gray Whales. Island Packers also run > whale watching tours and had a couple of naturalists on board. When a Gray > was sighted, the captain felt compelled to run slowly parallel to the whale > at what was described as a respectful distance, while the naturalist > intoned whale facts and figures into a microphone. Now a Gray Whale can sat > submerged for five minutes or longer. Our particular naturalist seemed to > have a morbid fear of silence and kept up a monologue for the length of ech > dive. People should be allowed to experience things without narration or I > might be less than patient. By dive two I was hoping the whale would turn > on the boat and smash it to bits with its mighty tail, anything to shut-up > the guy with the nasal voice who had pretty much run out of interesting > cetacean facts and was saying stuff like, "Do you know that a whale's > eyelash would weight as much as 6 ounces?" or "The words 'whales" and > 'Wales' are spelled differently and mean different things?" > > All this public announcement stuff reminded me of high school where > teachers and students agreed that people cope with announcements by > ignoring them. The solution, according to the administration at almost > every school I taught at, was to have more announcements. Let my people > free! > > Most day trippers got off at Scorpion Cave for kayaking or whatever > non-birders do, while Sonja and I and a few others continued on to > Prisoners' Cove. Behind the pier grows a shelter belt of eucalyptus that > would do Sydney Harbour proud. But beyond them the island appears to have > low oaks and chapparall, a handy Spanish catch-all for bushes, usually of > the tough thorny xeric kinds. > > My lifer, the Island Scrub Jay, made its appearance as a trio of blue and > gray birds high up a hill near the Lookout. Then birds 4 and 5 showed up > nice and low and close in bushes and I was able to get some photos of the > rings these two birds bore on their legs. There's a website for reporting > these ring combinations so scientists who track the individual scrub jays > can get sighting locations. Neat idea. > > We had about 3 hours on the island (11:30-2:30) which we spent slogging up > a dirt road through National Park property, finding Orange-crowned Warblers > (of the dull green sordida subspecies according to my most recently revised > NGS guide), Song Sparrows (very contrasty birds compared to our large, dark > subspecies), and Spotted Towhees with lots of extra spots on their backs > and wings compared to ours. The most noteworthy mammals were a small crowd > of friendly young men hiking the same road in speedos, and only speedos. I > thought they carried off the near-nakedness with way more aplomb than I > could ever muster. The mere sight of them brought back to me metaphorical > whispers of I'm-caught-in-public-and-am-wearing-only-underwear nightmares. > > The passage back to the mainland was highlighted by a large school of > Common Dolphins which checked out the boat briefly. > > Until next time, god birding. > > Chris Siddle > Mesa > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Santa Cruz Island From: "Dick Cannings" <dickcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 12:36:01 -0800 Hi Chris et al.: When Marg and I took this trip in October a couple of years ago, we saw 132 Black-vented Shearwaters. We also saw 2000 from land at Shell Beach (just to the north), so maybe it had something to do with currents, food and such things that we are rather ignorant of as landlubber birders. cheers Dick Cannings Penticton, BC http://dickcannings.com From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Siddle Sent: February-06-12 11:52 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com; Liz Siddle; Kat Siddle Subject: [bcintbird] Santa Cruz Island Hi birders, I had read another birder's comments about the trip he took in January 2011 on a site called 10,000 Birds. He had seen Black-vented Shearwaters on his passage, so I expected to see this species on ours. Nope. Not a one. Maybe the calm waters had something to do with this bird's absence, or maybe Black-vents are having an off-year at the moment. Pelagic birders like the mighty Force, as I call Mike, might like to comment. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Santa Cruz Island From: Chris Siddle <chris.siddle AT gmail.com> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 11:51:46 -0800 Hi birders, This morning I would like to tell you about our trip to Santa Cruz Island off Santa Barbara for one of two birds endemic to California. Several years ago the scrub jay resident to Santa Cruz Island was elevated to full species status and instantly the island, once a sad place of environmental desecration, became a popular destination with listers. The island belongs in part to the federal government as a national park and to the Nature Conservancy as one of their jewels in the crown of that organization. Volunteers and professionals have worked hard over the last couple of decades to rid the island of feral livestock, rats, and other pests, and return the island to something resembling its original state. It's an ongoing process. As a side note, for an interesting fictional work about the Channel Islands see T.C. Doyle's recent novel When the Killing is Done. One company, Island Packers, out of Ventura, runs day trips to Santa Cruz for about $85.00 or thereabouts per person. The passage across Santa Barbara Channel takes a couple of hours and on the day we took it, was very calm so sea-sickness wasn't an issue. Maybe the double hulls of the catamaran help with stability as well. Boating birders may wish to comment. I had read another birder's comments about the trip he took in January 2011 on a site called 10,000 Birds. He had seen Black-vented Shearwaters on his passage, so I expected to see this species on ours. Nope. Not a one. Maybe the calm waters had something to do with this bird's absence, or maybe Black-vents are having an off-year at the moment. Pelagic birders like the mighty Force, as I call Mike, might like to comment. What we did see were a few Pacific Loons, a Red-throated Loon (in Ventura harbour), a Horned Grebe, an Eared Grebe, many Western Grebes, several Clark's Grebes, and a Red-necked Grebe, Brown Pelicans, Brandt's Cormorants, one Pelagic Cormorants, a couple of Double-crested Cormorants, Common Murres, a few Rhinocerus (spelling?) Auklets, and a pair of very small black above and white below alcids, with long wings in fluttery fast flight, splashing down together to land. These birds I was sorely tempted to call Xantus' Murrelets, but didn't feel that I could given the strongish possibilities the birds were something else - definitely not Ancients or Cassin's (shades of gray weren't present) but possibly Craveri's, I suppose. It was terrible how so many of today's birds flew directly away from the boat and me standing mid-way along the port rail. Avast, and the devil take ya, you miserable feathered sprites of neptune! (imagine Johnny Depp's Jack voice here.) Other passage birds included Heermann's Gulls, California Gulls, and Western Gulls (and Doug Brown is right - Westerns do have tiny eyes in big blank faces. My apologies for doubting the field mark), a pair of Surf Scoters, and one Pigeon Guillemot. Sea mammals included lots of California Sea Lions sporting around in groups of 3-4 animals, lolling at the surface with their flippers raised and 1-3 Gray Whales. Island Packers also run whale watching tours and had a couple of naturalists on board. When a Gray was sighted, the captain felt compelled to run slowly parallel to the whale at what was described as a respectful distance, while the naturalist intoned whale facts and figures into a microphone. Now a Gray Whale can sat submerged for five minutes or longer. Our particular naturalist seemed to have a morbid fear of silence and kept up a monologue for the length of ech dive. People should be allowed to experience things without narration or I might be less than patient. By dive two I was hoping the whale would turn on the boat and smash it to bits with its mighty tail, anything to shut-up the guy with the nasal voice who had pretty much run out of interesting cetacean facts and was saying stuff like, "Do you know that a whale's eyelash would weight as much as 6 ounces?" or "The words 'whales" and 'Wales' are spelled differently and mean different things?" All this public announcement stuff reminded me of high school where teachers and students agreed that people cope with announcements by ignoring them. The solution, according to the administration at almost every school I taught at, was to have more announcements. Let my people free! Most day trippers got off at Scorpion Cave for kayaking or whatever non-birders do, while Sonja and I and a few others continued on to Prisoners' Cove. Behind the pier grows a shelter belt of eucalyptus that would do Sydney Harbour proud. But beyond them the island appears to have low oaks and chapparall, a handy Spanish catch-all for bushes, usually of the tough thorny xeric kinds. My lifer, the Island Scrub Jay, made its appearance as a trio of blue and gray birds high up a hill near the Lookout. Then birds 4 and 5 showed up nice and low and close in bushes and I was able to get some photos of the rings these two birds bore on their legs. There's a website for reporting these ring combinations so scientists who track the individual scrub jays can get sighting locations. Neat idea. We had about 3 hours on the island (11:30-2:30) which we spent slogging up a dirt road through National Park property, finding Orange-crowned Warblers (of the dull green sordida subspecies according to my most recently revised NGS guide), Song Sparrows (very contrasty birds compared to our large, dark subspecies), and Spotted Towhees with lots of extra spots on their backs and wings compared to ours. The most noteworthy mammals were a small crowd of friendly young men hiking the same road in speedos, and only speedos. I thought they carried off the near-nakedness with way more aplomb than I could ever muster. The mere sight of them brought back to me metaphorical whispers of I'm-caught-in-public-and-am-wearing-only-underwear nightmares. The passage back to the mainland was highlighted by a large school of Common Dolphins which checked out the boat briefly. Until next time, god birding. Chris Siddle Mesa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: more bicycle birding adventures: Anniversary birding Take 2 From: "Dick Cannings" <dickcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 10:56:03 -0800 Hi birders: I cycled through the south Okanagan Valley last weekend to boost my non-motorized birding totals for the year-and what a weekend it was! As Kenn Kaufman would say, a superb-owl weekend indeed, with Barn Owl, Long-eared Owl and a couple of Great Horneds as well. More at my blog: http://dickcannings.com/2012/02/06/anniversary-birding-take-2/ regards Dick Cannings Penticton, BC http://dickcannings.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Costa Rica birding From: "nogwon2003" <darcyandrews AT shaw.ca> Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2012 22:48:27 -0000 Hi Gary, in case you are interested, Alexander F. Skutch wrote a book about his life: "Un naturalista en Costa Rica". I purchased it at a gift shop at Monte Verde about 10 years ago-the Spanish version. Skutch had authored the then popular bird book for Costa Rica. It is good practice translating it if you have learned un poco espanol. But when I got home I discovered it had also been published in english. Cheers Kris Andrews Williams Lake. --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, Gary Davidson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > We are now 4 days into our month long stay in Costa Rica. Our location, on the north Pacific coast, is not the best birding part of the country but it's certainly giving us things to see and do. Our condo is ideally situated at the top of a hill right up against a wooded draw. The trees are quite active every morning and the draw allows us to see across the little valley as well. The hill and the slopes around appear to provide excellent thermalos for soaring birds. On each of the four four morning we;ve been here so far, we have taken our coffee, (and our bowl of cereal!), outside to sit and watch the action. There is a bit too much to handle sometimes, coffee tends to get cold before it's been drunk and the Cheerios get a little soggy. After 4 days, our "breakfast list" stands at 37. > Magnificent Frigatebird > Black Vulture > Turkey Vulture > Osprey > Mangrove Black-Hawk > Broad-winged Hawk > Gray Hawk > Swainson's Hawk > Zone-tailed Hawk > White-winged Dove > Inca Dove > Common Ground-Dove > Ruddy Ground-Dove > White-tipped Dove > Orange-fronted Parakeet > White-fronted Parrot > Squirrel Cuckoo > Mangrove Cuckoo > Groove-billed Ani > Canivet's Emerald > Ruby-throated Hummingbird > Black-headed Trogon > Hoffman's Woodpecker > Brown-crested Flycatcher > Great Kiskadee > Boat-billed Flycatcher > Tropical Kingbird > Scissor-tailed Flycatcher > White-throated Magpie-Jay > Barn Swallow > Rufous-naped Wren > Clay-coloured Thrush > Yellow Warbler > Great-tailed Grackle > Orchard Oriole > Streak-backed Oriole > Baltimore Oriole >   > Also right outside our door we heard a Common Pauraque last night. We crept outside and saw it sitting on a rock by the pool, calling loudly. A bit dark to see too well, but that's often all you get with nighthawks and nightjars. > Most of our first few days have been devoted to exploring and finding our way around a bit. We headed out for our first real birding trip this morning; we were headed to a National Wildlife Refuge. But along the way we noticed a dirt road running along side a river. It is very dry in this part of the country so any water is an attractant. So we decided to check out the road.  The vegetation was quite lush along the river. It turned out to be excellent birding, despite the late start - about 10:30, and the high temp - about 30C. We have decided to return one day at 0600 and see what we can at a better time, and with a bit more time to wander.  We never did get to the Wildlife Refuge today!  A couple of particularly nice birds this morning were Turquoise-browed Motmot and Red-legged Honeycreeper. > I have added a few pictures to my Costa Rica file at Flickr, click on the link below to see them. >   > http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsd37/sets/72157629175486613/Gary, (not shoveling any snow this month!) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 10:49:34 -0800 HI Dianne: phraseology which include "why" animals do things is always interesting because it implies rational thought which animal behaviorists still tend to shy away from I think, at least in non-primates. I would think that some of the benefits of social dominance are to maintain breeding superiority, territorial preferences and nutrition. So if one is able to dominate another bird (male or female) and maintain access to better nutrition, it should allow you to be healthier. Ergo, you would likely be able to dominate lesser individuals more easily. But does the male have to be healthier in order to be an effective dominator or does he need to dominate in order just to stay healthy? Are females necessarily not healthy? My interpretation would be that social dominance is used to exclude females in order to achieve one major benefit which is better nutrition. That better nutrition may in turn allow them to be more effective at dominating the females but the researcher does not say this. Clearly, the social dominance mechanisms are effective but is this because of nutrition or other factors which have allowed those dominance behaviors to work? It is a bit of a chicken and egg question, but I would tend to ask what the benefits of the behavior are that has enabled the behavior to evolve and maintain itself. It should be a self-sustaining process whereby the benefits feed back to the perpetrator in a way which confers traits which allow the behavior to be effective. As a metaphor, if I was better able to survive by punching someone and taking his food, it seems beneficial if the food made me bigger so that I could punch even more people and take their food and nobody could take my food. But perhaps I don't have to be bigger and stronger if I have some other way of dominating the person and taking his food. Perhaps I have a weapon, or perhaps the look in my eyes or the tone of my voice is sufficient to intimidate the other person. Size may not be an issue. So now you need to ask about what the benefits to the species as a whole are. Why should males dominate the foraging conditions when females are present? Do males need to replace & grow feathers faster for some reason? The implications from the research is that these differences may only be apparent when food resources are limited. As long as both genders can obtain adequate nutrition, feather growth is equal. Interesting stuff. Rick Howie Kamloops From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dianne C. Sent: February-05-12 9:49 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers This abstract says that male Downy Woodpeckers exclude females from good feeding areas in the winter?! The rotten little AT $&. (he says males have better nutrion - because they exclude the females? -, BUT then he says the males better nutrion makes them exclude the females. .??? Or am I interpreting the use of the word 'status' correctly?) Dianne C. The Auk C 1989 American Ornithologists' Union , Thomas Grubb Abstract Ptilochronology is the study of the growth rates of feathers by the measuring of growth bars. Growth bars are cross-bands on feathers that denote 24-h periods of growth. If a rectrix is plucked from a bird that is released, and then recaptured more than a month later, the width of the growth bars on the replacement (or induced) rectrix can provide a day-by-day record of the nutritional regime under which the bird had lived. Growth rate of induced rectrices varies among ages, sexes, and species of birds. I measured growth bars on feathers induced in Downy Woodpeckers (Picoides pubescens) that wintered in Ohio woodlots without supplemental food. On a daily basis, females grew feathers significantly more slowly than males. In other woodlots, where the woodpeckers were given supplementary food, daily feather growth did not differ between sexes. I concluded that male Downy Woodpeckers normally have a better nutritional status than females during the winter. A difference in nutritional status may explain why male Downy Woodpeckers use their social dominance to exclude females from parts of the species niche during winter. Ptilochronology could permit new insights into the nutritional ecology of free-ranging birds. Hypotheses that predict even minor variation in the nutritional status of birds should become accessible to testing. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Ptilochronology and Downy Woodpeckers From: "Dianne C." <kestrel374 AT yahoo.ca> Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2012 17:49:01 -0000 This abstract says that male Downy Woodpeckers exclude females from good feeding areas in the winter?! The rotten little AT $&. (he says males have better nutrion - because they exclude the females? -, BUT then he says the males better nutrion makes them exclude the females. .??? Or am I interpreting the use of the word 'status' correctly?) Dianne C. The Auk © 1989 American Ornithologists' Union , Thomas Grubb Abstract Ptilochronology is the study of the growth rates of feathers by the measuring of growth bars. Growth bars are cross-bands on feathers that denote 24-h periods of growth. If a rectrix is plucked from a bird that is released, and then recaptured more than a month later, the width of the growth bars on the replacement (or induced) rectrix can provide a day-by-day record of the nutritional regime under which the bird had lived. Growth rate of induced rectrices varies among ages, sexes, and species of birds. I measured growth bars on feathers induced in Downy Woodpeckers (Picoides pubescens) that wintered in Ohio woodlots without supplemental food. On a daily basis, females grew feathers significantly more slowly than males. In other woodlots, where the woodpeckers were given supplementary food, daily feather growth did not differ between sexes. I concluded that male Downy Woodpeckers normally have a better nutritional status than females during the winter. A difference in nutritional status may explain why male Downy Woodpeckers use their social dominance to exclude females from parts of the species niche during winter. Ptilochronology could permit new insights into the nutritional ecology of free-ranging birds. Hypotheses that predict even minor variation in the nutritional status of birds should become accessible to testing. ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Rosy-finches & Prairie Falcon From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 21:04:36 -0800 Birders, I accompanied Dan Peterson and Mike Force today for a little birding around Kelowna. My younger brother Connor also came along. We started off at Rojem Rd on the N. side of Dilworth Mtn. It didn't take us long to locate the long-staying PRAIRIE FALCON on top of a pole. He swooped down to the field, grabbed a rather large rodent, and returned to his post where we watched him eat the whole thing. This was about 11 AM. Then we made our way to Maude Roxby where there were quite a few birds, but nothing too unusual. There were several TUNDRA SWANS about, as well as GADWALL, AMERICAN WIGEON, MALLARD, COMMON GOLDENEYE and AMERICAN COOT. In the gull department we had the regulars; CALIFORNIA, HERRING, RING-BILLED, GLAUCOUS-WINGED and THAYER'S GULLS. An adult BALD EAGLE made a pass overhead and put all the gulls and ducks in Mud Bay up into the air. We continued along the lake to Okanagan Mountain Park where we quickly located the GRAY-CROWNED ROSY-FINCHES, present since Jan 31. The birds are associating with HOUSE FINCHES about 200 meters S. of Deeper CK along LAkeshore Rd. There is a large grayish new house on the right side of the road and the birds appear to be visiting feeders here.We saw at least 2 and probably 3 of the birds which all appeared to be of the 'interior' race. These birds were observed at about 1 PM. Chris Charlesworth Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: south Okanagan bicycle birding From: Dick Cannings <dickcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2012 20:44:49 -0800 Hi birders: I cycled from Penticton to Road 22 today in hopes of adding a few toughies to my non-motorized list for 2012.  The weather looked ideal (some of you may remember my epic fail last year at this time).  I went down the river channel through Penticton, where there is still a family of Tundra Swans--a great opportunity to see them at close range.  They were there 2 days ago, so it looks like they're settling in for a while.  Then down the east side of Skaha Lake.  It was neat to see how the ice blew in from the south a couple of days ago--the lake is pretty much frozen over now.  Nothing too interesting at Okanagan Falls, so I got back on the highway and went by Vaseux Lake--I was surprised to see a fair number of swans at the north end, so there must be a decent sized open area there.  By the time I got to north Oliver, it was apparent that there was still plenty of snow there, so the riverside trail was unbikeable.  I went down Island Road and saw a couple of Green-winged Teal in an open part of Park Rill.  Then down Sawmill Road and Road 9, where I foolishly decided to take on the channel dyke trail.  The tire ruts looked eminently bike-able, but within a few hundred metres I was alternately in breaking ice, mud, or sheer wet ice.  Anyways, I survived, only falling hard once.  South of Road 18 I had some owls to check on, thanks to Doug Brown's reconnaissance here yesterday.  I checked The Juniper, but the saw-whet Doug had wasn't there--instead a beautiful BARN OWL flew out!  Bonus.  I wandered around where Doug had seen the Barred Owl yesterday, but only saw a nice dark Great Horned.  Farther south, another Great Horned, then my other target--a nice roosting LONG-EARED OWL.  Marg met me at Road 22, and we're now ensconced in a nice hotel room.  Tomorrow I'll bike home from Road 22 so that it will count for the NMT list; and hopefully I can find a few more new ones (6 new today!). cheers Dick Cannings Penticton, BC http://www.dickcannings.com  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Our Adventure... From: David Chapman <chpmndavid AT hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 18:55:17 -0700 Left wonderful Winter in Mesa with new grandson last Tuesday on 10 month adventure to the East. Lifer Rufous Winged Sparrow and a couple others among the highlights so far. Will spend next 3 weeks in SE AZ primarily boondocking in Sierra Vista and San Pedro river area. Life is good... David Chapman chpmndavid AT hotmail.com 480-244-9626 www.debdavervadventure.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Costa Rica birding From: Gary Davidson <gsd37 AT yahoo.ca> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 15:12:20 -0800 (PST) Hi All, We are now 4 days into our month long stay in Costa Rica. Our location, on the north Pacific coast, is not the best birding part of the country but it's certainly giving us things to see and do. Our condo is ideally situated at the top of a hill right up against a wooded draw. The trees are quite active every morning and the draw allows us to see across the little valley as well. The hill and the slopes around appear to provide excellent thermalos for soaring birds. On each of the four four morning we;ve been here so far, we have taken our coffee, (and our bowl of cereal!), outside to sit and watch the action. There is a bit too much to handle sometimes, coffee tends to get cold before it's been drunk and the Cheerios get a little soggy. After 4 days, our "breakfast list" stands at 37. Magnificent Frigatebird Black Vulture Turkey Vulture Osprey Mangrove Black-Hawk Broad-winged Hawk Gray Hawk Swainson's Hawk Zone-tailed Hawk White-winged Dove Inca Dove Common Ground-Dove Ruddy Ground-Dove White-tipped Dove Orange-fronted Parakeet White-fronted Parrot Squirrel Cuckoo Mangrove Cuckoo Groove-billed Ani Canivet's Emerald Ruby-throated Hummingbird Black-headed Trogon Hoffman's Woodpecker Brown-crested Flycatcher Great Kiskadee Boat-billed Flycatcher Tropical Kingbird Scissor-tailed Flycatcher White-throated Magpie-Jay Barn Swallow Rufous-naped Wren Clay-coloured Thrush Yellow Warbler Great-tailed Grackle Orchard Oriole Streak-backed Oriole Baltimore Oriole   Also right outside our door we heard a Common Pauraque last night. We crept outside and saw it sitting on a rock by the pool, calling loudly. A bit dark to see too well, but that's often all you get with nighthawks and nightjars. Most of our first few days have been devoted to exploring and finding our way around a bit. We headed out for our first real birding trip this morning; we were headed to a National Wildlife Refuge. But along the way we noticed a dirt road running along side a river. It is very dry in this part of the country so any water is an attractant. So we decided to check out the road.  The vegetation was quite lush along the river. It turned out to be excellent birding, despite the late start - about 10:30, and the high temp - about 30C. We have decided to return one day at 0600 and see what we can at a better time, and with a bit more time to wander.  We never did get to the Wildlife Refuge today!  A couple of particularly nice birds this morning were Turquoise-browed Motmot and Red-legged Honeycreeper. I have added a few pictures to my Costa Rica file at Flickr, click on the link below to see them.   http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsd37/sets/72157629175486613/Gary, (not shoveling any snow this month!) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Prairie Falcon & Lesser Black-backed Gull From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 00:04:17 -0800 Birders, The PRAIRIE FALCON on Rojem Rd appears to have spent the day in its usual area. I visited at about 10 AM and saw it on a telephone pole. It then flew down into the field and sat there for a while. Later on, maybe 3 30 PM or so Mike Force and I saw it there again doing pretty much the same thing. Dan Peterson from the coast came up today to try to find Lesser Black-backed Gull so Mike and I went off to scout and see if we could find it. We arrived at the mouth of Vernon Ck and saw hundreds of gulls. A scan through the flock produced nothing unusual. Then, a helicopter flew over and put all the birds up, shuffling the deck as Mike called it. Within minutes we had spotted the adult LESSER BLACK-BACKED GULL and watched it for close to an hour as it preened and did things that Lesser Black-backeds do. This was around noon I guess. Dan arrived just after we had left, and we informed him the bird was still there. He got it at around 3 30 PM or so. Also at the mouth of the creek were at least 2 ad. GLAUCOUS GULLS, 8 THAYER'S GULLS, 30 or so GLAUCOUS-WINGED GULLS, loads of HERRING, RING-BILLED and CALIFORNIA GULLS and one hybrid gull that we identified as a 'Nelson's Gull, an apparent Glaucous X Herring Gull hybrid. That's about all Chris Charlesworth Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Additions to 2012 Interior List - February From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 22:56:05 -0800 Hi Dick and members: you can add Am. Kestrel, Red-tailed hawk, Rough-legged Hawk, Snowy Owl and Short-eared Owl to the interior list for February. All seen around Kamloops in the last 2 days. The immature Snowy Owl I am sure is the same one that I photographed back in November, so it is nice to see that it is surviving. I am not sure if the other 3 are still present but certainly it is not snow pack that is an obstacle to hunting. There is no snow where these birds are wintering at over 1000m asl. This seems to be a big winter for Short-eared Owls as well. Groups of up to 5 have been seen locally. Rick Howie Kamloops [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Feb. listing From: Laure Neish <natureneish AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 13:52:59 -0800 To help kick start the list for this month, here are some yard birds: Common Redpoll - still have about 20 visiting the seed piles Varied Thrush - still a lurker Great Horned Owl - its a regular hoot-nanny in the neighbourhood with 2 pairs calling at many hours of the day and night American Goldfinch Pine Siskin Clark's Nutcracker Steller's Jay Song Sparrow Sharp-shinned Hawk This morning I didn't find much at the frozen Penticton marina so I headed up the road to the landfill where I could easily pick out the large pale mantled GLAUCOUS GULL adult in the flock of scavengers. There were five Bald Eagles and scads of Common Ravens including this one on a side road. The caption could read "I'm glad someone is picking up these Tim's cups!" http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p125933063/h2786179f#h2786179f At Middle Bench Rd. a dark morph hawk stood, even from a distance of about 100m so I pulled over and waited for it so fly. Just to make sure it was a Red-tail dark morph. Finally it left its perch and flew straight towards me, eyes on a meadow mammal, but it didn't catch anything, so flew back up to the tree again and showed its chestnut tail with wide terminal band. I don't see too many dark morph Red-tails around here. First of several photos, perched and in flight http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p505314990/h3878b8ba#h3878b8ba Gotta love this sunshine! -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Ventura Ranch KOA From: Chris Siddle <chris.siddle AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 13:11:26 -0800 Hi birders, Sonja and I settled into a KOA a few miles west of Santa Paula, California, within about 35 mins of Ventura where we were to board the Island Packers Boat for Santa Cruz Island. The Saturday before the cruise we explored Santa Barbara, declaring that it really wasn't going to be a birding day as such. so it was ironic that I should end up with the most year birds of the trip so far - 23 of them. The first was the best, in my books. Two scrub jays visited our camp site to protest loudly but briefly at the long dead growth hanging from the top of a palm. When I looked up the palm's "grass skirt' I was pleased to see a white-faced Barn Owl trying to catch some z's, or zeds. After a visit to downtown, the SB Museum of Natural History, and the SB Botanic Gardens, we went a little west to Goleta and Coal Oil Point where shorebirds were clustering in a rocky headland trying to avoid the hordes of university kids who were enjoying the sunset. Marbled Godwits, Whimbrels, Willets, Black-billed Plovers, a Black Turnstone, Royal Terns, and Heermann's Gulls were all year birds, not that I am keeping a year's list. California Towhees, a White-tailed Kite, Anna's Hummingbirds, Semipalmated Plovers, a Cooper's Hawk, Pied-billed Grebes, and Ruddy Ducks were around nearby Devereux Slough. You may be able to see how it wasn't hard to see 56 species while "not birding". Next time, our voyage to Santa Cruz Island... Until then, good birding. Chris Siddle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Kelowna raptors From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 22:16:56 -0800 Birders, Today I visited the open country that is the Kelowna Airport. Unfortunately nothing large and snowy white, but I did get a ROUGH-LEGGED HAWK, several RED-TAILED HAWKS, an imm. NORTHERN HARRIER, 2 ad. GOLDEN EAGLES, a MERLIN, an AMERICAN KESTREL and two COOPER'S HAWKS in the area. Up at the feedlot there were hundreds of RED-WINGED BLACKBIRDS, as well as maybe a couple of dozen BREWER'S BLACKBIRDS. In the Country Roads neighborhood at the N. end of the Kelowna Airport I finally had my BOHEMIAN WAXWINGS for the year as a flock of 100 moved through. I checked through a large flock of WHITE-CROWNED SPARROWS along Lakha Rd, but couldn't find anything different. Chris Charlesworth Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: VARC Spring Workshops From: "Derek Matthews" <Derek AT birdvancouver.com> Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 21:29:39 -0000 The Vancouver Avian Research Centre has just posted spring dates for Bird Monitoring and Banding and Bird Identification Workshops. Bird Identification Workshop: • April 28 – 29 Bird Monitoring and Banding Workshop: • May 11 – 13 • June 8 - 10 The Bird Identification Workshop is designed for beginner and intermediate birders who may wish to participate in citizen science projects such as the BC Breeding Bird Atlas or similar programs or who just want to take their bird knowledge and identification skills to the next level. This course covers groups, topography, field marks, song, habitat, molt, ageing and more and includes a guided field session to the Colony Farm banding station. Although developed for beginner and intermediate birders the ornithological aspects of the course benefit even the most experienced birders and the workshop is invaluable for birders traveling overseas. The Bird Monitoring and Banding Workshop is designed for people with little or no bird banding or bird in the hand experience and provides a fantastic opportunity to see birds up close and personal, to learn about their plumage, molt sequences and life habits. Most of all, these workshops are designed to be a fun and interesting experience and a way to take your interest in birds and the environment to the next level. See what people who have attended the workshops have to say and why the average rating from course participants is 9.5 out of 10!! http://www.birdvancouver.com/testimonials.html Full details of course schedules and content and registration information can be found online at: http://www.birdvancouver.com/workshops.html Derek Matthews Vancouver Avian Research Centre www.birdvancouver.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 23:17:00 -0800 Yes, makes for good speculation Russ. The Anything Larus site claims that as of July 2011, there has been no record of a pure pair of LBBG breeding in continental NA. Apparently, there has been some hybridization with HEGU on Appledore Island in Maine. Given that many hundreds are wintering along the eastern seaboard and they are regular in winter out to Colorado (and the Okanagan apparently), can pure breeding pairs be far behind? Now as I see municipalities doing a better job of managing their landfills and open faces become smaller, there is less feeding habitat of that type at least, being maintained around the interior. It will be interesting to see if there are any shifts in wintering gulls away from more tightly-controlled landfills. Our gull numbers were certainly down at Kamloops on CBC day as there was very little exposed garbage available. Even raven numbers were down dramatically. If I can get some time ahead, I may need to write the little Lesser paper. Rick Howie From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russell Cannings Sent: February-01-12 10:15 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull Certainly an intriguing mystery Rick, I would think that if these birds were dispersing randomly all the way from Greenland, they would be showing up more on the Pacific coast where there are a lot more birders and gulls. As far as I know, only 1 LBBG has been photographed in coastal British Columbia along with only a small handful of unconfirmed reports (this is off the top of my head). One similarity between the wintering "population" in BC, and the larger one (~30) in Colorado, is the presence of Herring Gulls (which are pretty scarce in coastal BC during the winter). The same can obviously be said (in regards to mingling w. Herrings) for the Atlantic seaboard, and indeed the breeding areas of Iceland etc. I also wonder if there could be a few unknown breeding sites that we don't know about that are further west--say on some islands in the middle of Manitoba somewhere? Just throwin' it out there. Now if only Slaty-backed Gulls could start invading... any time please. Russ Cannings Burnaby, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: r.howie AT shaw.ca Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 1:56 pm Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull To: "bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com " > > > > The Anything Larus website speculates that the increase in > numbers of LBBG on the east coast is possibly due to invasion > from the expanding Greenland population as we have explored > before on thid chat line. Postulating a trans-continental drift > pattern is interesting. Do HEGU do this? Whatever the mechanisms > and processes at work here, I think having a summary document > for BC would be a good resource. Outlets such as the BCFO > journal or Wildlife Afield would be good places to start. Rick > Howie, Kamloops. > > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Russell Cannings > > > Sender: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:30:56 > > To: > > > Reply-to: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > > > Hi Rick and others, > > > > I wonder if it has something to do with the birds that they are > mingling with either on the nesting grounds or post-breeding. I > would guess it they are flocking with Herring Gulls. Since the > Central Okanagan probably hosts the largest Herring Gull > wintering population in BC, and indeed the largest winter-gull > concentration in the interior, it makes sense that this is where > "LBBGs" would turn up. They seem to be turning up with > increasing frequency in the interior of North American, and > Vernon/Kelowna/Penticton also happens to have a small but > dedicated force of gull-watchers that are waiting to intercept > anything with a dark back. > > > > Outside of the Okanagan-Thompson, the only other records I can > think of (from the interior) are from Salmon Arm and Creston > (both last year). > > > > Cheers, > > > > Russ Cannings > > Burnaby, BC > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rick Howie > > > Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:45 pm > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > > > Exciting news Chris. The Okanagan seems to be the centre of > > > Black-backed > > > Lesser Gulls in the province. Now I wonder if we can formulate > > > some theories > > > about why this might be and what is happening. There seems to > be > > > a pattern > > > here. Perhaps a brief summary of Lesser sightings over the > past > > > decade would > > > be in order. I have one record from Kamloops to contribute. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Howie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf > > > Of Chris Charlesworth > > > Sent: January-31-12 4:38 PM > > > To: bc intbird > > > Subject: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Birders, > > > > > > After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, > I was > > > surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED > > > GULL at Maude > > > Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been > three > > > LesserBlack-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force > > > and I found an > > > fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was > in > > > the early > > > stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert > Lk > > > a while ago > > > and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had > > > yesterday was > > > advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The > > > tail was white, > > > except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail > > > pattern would > > > be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd > year > > > to have > > > more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the > all > > > dark bill. > > > A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some > > > pink at the > > > base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials > > > and wing > > > coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on > > > yesterdays bird was > > > pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's > bird > > > was a > > > classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth > > > photo file. I > > > took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. > It's > > > a record > > > shot anyhow. > > > > > > Chris Charlesworth > > > Kelowna, BC > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To contact the moderator email > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > Also, consider joining these groups. > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > If you have pictures to share try this group. > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you > can see the pictures. > Subject: Re: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: Russell Cannings <russellcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 22:15:26 -0800 Certainly an intriguing mystery Rick, I would think that if these birds were dispersing randomly all the way from Greenland, they would be showing up more on the Pacific coast where there are a lot more birders and gulls. As far as I know, only 1 LBBG has been photographed in coastal British Columbia along with only a small handful of unconfirmed reports (this is off the top of my head). One similarity between the wintering "population" in BC, and the larger one (~30) in Colorado, is the presence of Herring Gulls (which are pretty scarce in coastal BC during the winter). The same can obviously be said (in regards to mingling w. Herrings) for the Atlantic seaboard, and indeed the breeding areas of Iceland etc. I also wonder if there could be a few unknown breeding sites that we don't know about that are further west--say on some islands in the middle of Manitoba somewhere?  Just throwin' it out there. Now if only Slaty-backed Gulls could start invading... any time please. Russ Cannings Burnaby, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: r.howie AT shaw.ca Date: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 1:56 pm Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull To: "bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com" > > > The Anything Larus website speculates that the increase in > numbers of LBBG on the east coast is possibly due to invasion > from the expanding Greenland population as we have explored > before on thid chat line. Postulating a trans-continental drift > pattern is interesting. Do HEGU do this? Whatever the mechanisms > and processes at work here, I think having a summary document > for BC would be a good resource. Outlets such as the BCFO > journal or Wildlife Afield would be good places to start. Rick > Howie, Kamloops. > > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Russell Cannings > > Sender: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:30:56 > > To: > > Reply-to: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > > > Hi Rick and others, > > > > I wonder if it has something to do with the birds that they are > mingling with either on the nesting grounds or post-breeding. I > would guess it they are flocking with Herring Gulls. Since the > Central Okanagan probably hosts the largest Herring Gull > wintering population in BC, and indeed the largest winter-gull > concentration in the interior, it makes sense that this is where > "LBBGs" would turn up. They seem to be turning up with > increasing frequency in the interior of North American, and > Vernon/Kelowna/Penticton also happens to have a small but > dedicated force of gull-watchers that are waiting to intercept > anything with a dark back. > > > > Outside of the Okanagan-Thompson, the only other records I can > think of (from the interior) are from Salmon Arm and Creston > (both last year). > > > > Cheers, > > > > Russ Cannings > > Burnaby, BC > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rick Howie > > Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:45 pm > > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > > > Exciting news Chris. The Okanagan seems to be the centre of > > > Black-backed > > > Lesser Gulls in the province. Now I wonder if we can formulate > > > some theories > > > about why this might be and what is happening. There seems to > be > > > a pattern > > > here. Perhaps a brief summary of Lesser sightings over the > past > > > decade would > > > be in order. I have one record from Kamloops to contribute. > > > > > >   > > > > > > Rick Howie  > > > > > >   > > > > > >   > > > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > > Of Chris Charlesworth > > > Sent: January-31-12 4:38 PM > > > To: bc intbird > > > Subject: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > > > > >   > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > Birders, > > > > > > After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, > I was > > > surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED > > > GULL at Maude > > > Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been > three > > > LesserBlack-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force > > > and I found an > > > fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was > in > > > the early > > > stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert > Lk > > > a while ago > > > and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had > > > yesterday was > > > advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The > > > tail was white, > > > except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail > > > pattern would > > > be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd > year > > > to have > > > more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the > all > > > dark bill. > > > A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some > > > pink at the > > > base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials > > > and wing > > > coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on > > > yesterdays bird was > > > pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's > bird > > > was a > > > classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth > > > photo file. I > > > took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. > It's > > > a record > > > shot anyhow. > > > > > > Chris Charlesworth > > > Kelowna, BC > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To contact the moderator email > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > Also, consider joining these groups. > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com  an all BC group. > If you have pictures to share try this group.  > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you > can see the pictures. > Subject: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: r.howie AT shaw.ca Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 21:56:12 +0000 The Anything Larus website speculates that the increase in numbers of LBBG on the east coast is possibly due to invasion from the expanding Greenland population as we have explored before on thid chat line. Postulating a trans-continental drift pattern is interesting. Do HEGU do this? Whatever the mechanisms and processes at work here, I think having a summary document for BC would be a good resource. Outlets such as the BCFO journal or Wildlife Afield would be good places to start. Rick Howie, Kamloops. Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: Russell Cannings Sender: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:30:56 To: Reply-to: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull Hi Rick and others, I wonder if it has something to do with the birds that they are mingling with either on the nesting grounds or post-breeding. I would guess it they are flocking with Herring Gulls. Since the Central Okanagan probably hosts the largest Herring Gull wintering population in BC, and indeed the largest winter-gull concentration in the interior, it makes sense that this is where "LBBGs" would turn up. They seem to be turning up with increasing frequency in the interior of North American, and Vernon/Kelowna/Penticton also happens to have a small but dedicated force of gull-watchers that are waiting to intercept anything with a dark back. Outside of the Okanagan-Thompson, the only other records I can think of (from the interior) are from Salmon Arm and Creston (both last year). Cheers, Russ Cannings Burnaby, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Howie Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:45 pm Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Exciting news Chris. The Okanagan seems to be the centre of > Black-backed > Lesser Gulls in the province. Now I wonder if we can formulate > some theories > about why this might be and what is happening. There seems to be > a pattern > here. Perhaps a brief summary of Lesser sightings over the past > decade would > be in order. I have one record from Kamloops to contribute. > >   > > Rick Howie  > >   > >   > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Chris Charlesworth > Sent: January-31-12 4:38 PM > To: bc intbird > Subject: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > >   > >   > > > Birders, > > After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, I was > surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED > GULL at Maude > Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been three > LesserBlack-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force > and I found an > fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was in > the early > stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert Lk > a while ago > and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had > yesterday was > advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The > tail was white, > except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail > pattern would > be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd year > to have > more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the all > dark bill. > A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some > pink at the > base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials > and wing > coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on > yesterdays bird was > pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's bird > was a > classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth > photo file. I > took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. It's > a record > shot anyhow. > > Chris Charlesworth > Kelowna, BC > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 09:35:33 -0800 Don't forget Nakusp, the site of BC's first Lesser Black-backed back in the early 90s. Chris Sent from my iPod On 2012-02-01, at 9:31 AM, "Russell Cannings" wrote: > Hi Rick and others, > > I wonder if it has something to do with the birds that they are mingling with either on the nesting grounds or post-breeding. I would guess it they are flocking with Herring Gulls. Since the Central Okanagan probably hosts the largest Herring Gull wintering population in BC, and indeed the largest winter-gull concentration in the interior, it makes sense that this is where "LBBGs" would turn up. They seem to be turning up with increasing frequency in the interior of North American, and Vernon/Kelowna/Penticton also happens to have a small but dedicated force of gull-watchers that are waiting to intercept anything with a dark back. > > Outside of the Okanagan-Thompson, the only other records I can think of (from the interior) are from Salmon Arm and Creston (both last year). > > Cheers, > > Russ Cannings > Burnaby, BC > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rick Howie > Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:45 pm > Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > Exciting news Chris. The Okanagan seems to be the centre of > > Black-backed > > Lesser Gulls in the province. Now I wonder if we can formulate > > some theories > > about why this might be and what is happening. There seems to be > > a pattern > > here. Perhaps a brief summary of Lesser sightings over the past > > decade would > > be in order. I have one record from Kamloops to contribute. > > > > > > > > Rick Howie > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > > Of Chris Charlesworth > > Sent: January-31-12 4:38 PM > > To: bc intbird > > Subject: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Birders, > > > > After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, I was > > surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED > > GULL at Maude > > Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been three > > LesserBlack-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force > > and I found an > > fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was in > > the early > > stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert Lk > > a while ago > > and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had > > yesterday was > > advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The > > tail was white, > > except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail > > pattern would > > be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd year > > to have > > more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the all > > dark bill. > > A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some > > pink at the > > base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials > > and wing > > coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on > > yesterdays bird was > > pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's bird > > was a > > classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth > > photo file. I > > took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. It's > > a record > > shot anyhow. > > > > Chris Charlesworth > > Kelowna, BC > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: Russell Cannings <russellcannings AT shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:30:56 -0800 Hi Rick and others, I wonder if it has something to do with the birds that they are mingling with either on the nesting grounds or post-breeding. I would guess it they are flocking with Herring Gulls. Since the Central Okanagan probably hosts the largest Herring Gull wintering population in BC, and indeed the largest winter-gull concentration in the interior, it makes sense that this is where "LBBGs" would turn up. They seem to be turning up with increasing frequency in the interior of North American, and Vernon/Kelowna/Penticton also happens to have a small but dedicated force of gull-watchers that are waiting to intercept anything with a dark back. Outside of the Okanagan-Thompson, the only other records I can think of (from the interior) are from Salmon Arm and Creston (both last year). Cheers, Russ Cannings Burnaby, BC ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Howie Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:45 pm Subject: RE: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Exciting news Chris. The Okanagan seems to be the centre of > Black-backed > Lesser Gulls in the province. Now I wonder if we can formulate > some theories > about why this might be and what is happening. There seems to be > a pattern > here. Perhaps a brief summary of Lesser sightings over the past > decade would > be in order. I have one record from Kamloops to contribute. > >   > > Rick Howie  > >   > >   > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Chris Charlesworth > Sent: January-31-12 4:38 PM > To: bc intbird > Subject: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull > >   > >   > > > Birders, > > After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, I was > surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED > GULL at Maude > Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been three > LesserBlack-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force > and I found an > fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was in > the early > stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert Lk > a while ago > and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had > yesterday was > advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The > tail was white, > except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail > pattern would > be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd year > to have > more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the all > dark bill. > A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some > pink at the > base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials > and wing > coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on > yesterdays bird was > pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's bird > was a > classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth > photo file. I > took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. It's > a record > shot anyhow. > > Chris Charlesworth > Kelowna, BC > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:45:15 -0800 Exciting news Chris. The Okanagan seems to be the centre of Black-backed Lesser Gulls in the province. Now I wonder if we can formulate some theories about why this might be and what is happening. There seems to be a pattern here. Perhaps a brief summary of Lesser sightings over the past decade would be in order. I have one record from Kamloops to contribute. Rick Howie From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Charlesworth Sent: January-31-12 4:38 PM To: bc intbird Subject: [bcintbird] another Lesser Black-backed Gull Birders, After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, I was surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED GULL at Maude Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been three Lesser Black-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force and I found an fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was in the early stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert Lk a while ago and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had yesterday was advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The tail was white, except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail pattern would be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd year to have more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the all dark bill. A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some pink at the base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials and wing coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on yesterdays bird was pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's bird was a classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth photo file. I took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. It's a record shot anyhow. Chris Charlesworth Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: another Lesser Black-backed Gull From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 16:38:04 -0800 Birders, After seeing the 2nd year LBBG yesterday in advanced plumage, I was surprised today to find a full adult basic LESSER BLACK-BACKED GULL at Maude Roxby in Kelowna. This leads me to believe there have been three Lesser Black-backed Gulls in the valley this winter. Mike Force and I found an fresh 2nd year LBBG at the mouth of Mission Ck. This bird was in the early stages of 2nd year plumage. Mike saw the bird again at Robert Lk a while ago and it was still in the same plumage. The 2nd year we had yesterday was advanced almost to the point of being called a 3rd year. The tail was white, except for a couple of little black streaks in it. This tail pattern would be more indicative of a 3rd year, as you might expect a 2nd year to have more mottling remaining. Also odd on yesterdays bird was the all dark bill. A bird in advanced 2nd yr plumage you may expect to have some pink at the base of the bill. This birds bill was all black. The tertials and wing coverts of the Vernon bird matched 2nd year. Mantle on yesterdays bird was pretty dark and filled in with adult feathers also. Today's bird was a classic adult. I have added a photo to the CHris Charlesworth photo file. I took the picture of the bird through my scope, on my phone. It's a record shot anyhow. Chris Charlesworth Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Lesser Black-backed & Glaucous Gull in Vernon From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 18:18:39 -0800 Birders, Mike Force and I went out in the N. Okanagan today. Temperatures climbed up to near 10 degrees Celsius and the sun was warm! Bird of the day award went to an advanced second year LESSER BLACK-BACKED GULL seen at the mouth of Vernon Ck in Okanagan Landing. We picked the bird out as being a 'dark-backed gull' from over a kilometer away so we went to investigate. Almost immediately after arriving we spotted the bird swimming in the water. The mantle was dark and almost completely filled in with adult type feathers. The tertials were mottled however and there was some brown in the wing coverts. The tail was white, save for two black vertical streaks in it. The bill was all dark, with a tiny yellow / whitish tip. Eye was pale and head and breast were streaked with brown. Streaks gathered around eye to give distinct 'eye streak'. Primaries were black and very long. Also here was an adult GLAUCOUS GULL, as well as THAYER'S GULL and the other usual larid suspects. Out on the water were HORNED, RED-NECKD and PIED-BILLED GREBES, COMMON LOONS, COMMON MERGANSER, BUFFLEHEAD, AMERICAN COOT and flocks of CANADA GEESE. Up on the Commonage we sifted through several RED-TAILED HAWKS trying to find different raptors or owls if possible. Only owl we got was a GREAT HORNED OWL in a copse of aspens along Bailey Rd. An adult NORTHERN SHRIKE was a nice find on Charolais Rd where I also heard a distant TOWNSEND'S SOLITAIRE. We briefly visited some Douglas Fir / Ponderosa pine forest along Howards Rd and had STELLER'S JAY, MOUNTAIN and BLACK-CAPPED CHICKADEE and RED-BREASTED NUTHATCH. Chris Charlesworth Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Redpolls again From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:51:42 -0800 Sorry. This message was meant for the pics group. Rick Howie From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Howie Sent: January-29-12 11:43 PM To: BCINTBIRD Subject: [bcintbird] Redpolls again Attached is a photo of a bird with little in the way of breast colour. Rick Howie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Redpolls again From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:43:25 -0800 Attached is a photo of a bird with little in the way of breast colour. Rick Howie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Hoary Redpoll ? From: "douglasbrown01" <douglasbrown01 AT yahoo.ca> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 05:36:49 -0000 Hi Laure; I'm assuming that BNA account is for Hoary Redpoll, but we're already assuming the bird is a Common Redpoll. Male Common Redpolls will have a variable amount of pink on the breast from very little to quite a bit. Only birds with a lot of pink on the breast can be assumed to be adult male Common Redpolls. Adult female and immature male Common Redpolls usually show some pink in the breast and there is overlap with pale adult males. In Common Redpoll the only birds with no pink on the breast is immature females. Your bird shows very little pink in the breast so assuming the bird is a Common Redpoll, I don't believe the bird shows enough to eliminate adult female. This comes from Pyle and his info would be from specimens and banding records that have been sexed. It should be the most accurate info as the only way to positively sex these birds would be to capture them for DNA. Doug Brown Osoyoos --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, Laure Neish wrote: > > Hi Doug, > > This is from BNA : > > *Male shows little if any pink on cheeks, breast, or rump; female almost > invariably shows none. In male, what pink there is becomes more conspicuous > as breeding season approaches. Overall, males paler than females.* > ** > Of the very few Hoaries I've seen across Canada, and from my two photos on > the gallery (feeding on catkins) this has been my experience too.which is > why I said that if it was a mle it would have had a hint of pink but not so > much streaking in combination. The bird is probably a plae Common Redpoll. > > Perhaps I didn't understand your point, but are you saying if it was a male > Hoary it should have red on the breast? > > Laure > > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:56 AM, douglasbrown01 wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Laure; > > > > I would not assume the bird is a male based on the pink breast wash. Only > > birds with a large amount of pink can be assumed to be adult males as adult > > females and immature males will show as much pink as in your photo. The > > amount of streaking is very variable which is part of why they are so > > difficult to sex. Only immature females are supposed to show no pink on the > > breast. > > > > Doug Brown > > Osoyoos > > > > --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, Laure Neish wrote: > > > > > > Hi, Thanks for your input Chris. I have to agree and yesterday I looked > > up > > > Hoary Redpoll on BNA (Birds of North America online) and found the link > > to > > > David Sibley's blog in which he discusses the continuum between Common > > and > > > Hoary and how most of the birds that are IDed in confidence are male > > Hoary > > > Redpolls which have the "snowflake" look of the palest phenotype. He > > raises > > > another interesting question about redpolls life in long nights of arctic > > > darkness. > > > > > > http://sibleyguides.blogspot.com/2008/01/my-holiday-redpoll-photos.html > > > > > > *"Redpoll identification is challenging because Hoary and Common Redpoll > > > seem to show an unbroken continuum of variation from pale to dark, and > > > there are no fully reliable differences. So birders have to rely on a > > > subjective assessment of overall colour and struggle to define the > > > threshold for confident identification. Virtually all birders see > > redpolls > > > only in the winter, where identification is reduced to an utterly > > one-sided > > > question: "Where can we draw the line so that we are sure the accepted > > > records of Hoary Redpolls are correct?" * > > > > > > I looked through my photos again and realized that the bird in this side > > > view is the same bird in the previously presented front view. > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h12101c70#h12101c70 > > > Still hard to see the complete undertail coverts or rump. > > > > > > In the case of this redpoll, if it is a male (which I assume it is > > because > > > of the pink wash) I would expect it to be even paler than it is to be a > > > pure Hoary. The females seem to have a bit more streaking though. > > > > > > Anyway, I'll keep looking! > > > > > > Laure > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Chris Charlesworth < > > > c_charlesworth23 AT > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Laure, > > > > > > > > Nice that you've got redpolls in your yard! There aren't too many > > around > > > > this winter and they've all been way up in high elevation forests for > > the > > > > most part. Your bird might just be a Hoary, but might is the key word > > here. > > > > I'm not sure I would ID that bird from the photos. I would need to see > > the > > > > rump as you mentioned, and the undertail coverts. The ground color is > > nice > > > > and white and the bill might be a little bit pushed in perhaps. I am a > > bit > > > > hesitant to call it a Hoary based on the fairly dark flank streaks > > though. > > > > Most of the Hoary's I've ID'd had very little to almost no flank > > streaking. > > > > > > > > Chris Charlesworth > > > > > > > > > > > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > > From: natureneish AT > > > > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:10:34 -0800 > > > > Subject: [bcintbird] Hoary Redpoll ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of several shots on the gallery > > > > > > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h39dd05b4#h21c9aed3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I may not be able to answer this question, because it can be difficult > > to > > > > > > > > tell the difference between pale Common Redpolls and Hoary, especially > > > > > > > > since I couldn't get a shot of the rump without flushing the bird. (I > > was > > > > > > > > standing about 2 metres aways in the driveway behind my camera on > > tripod) > > > > > > > > Since the first day of this month, when the first redpoll appeared at > > the > > > > > > > > feeders, there has been a steady increase in numbers with a quick > > count of > > > > > > > > 17 this morning at 8 am. It has been quite fascinating watching these > > birds > > > > > > > > and comparing all the variations in appearance, between males and > > females, > > > > > > > > between browner birds and paler birds, some with dark blackish streaks > > and > > > > > > > > some with finer brown streaks. All the while I've had my eye and > > binoculars > > > > > > > > out for a possible Hoary in the mix and today I came upon this one. The > > > > > > > > hint of pink across the breast indicates a male bird, the bill seems > > sort > > > > > > > > of pushed in, and the overall ground colour is whitish. But the streaks > > > > > > > > might mean its a Common and ...well i'm just not sure. Although the > > > > > > > > "snowflake" look on some birds is obvious, there are photos and > > > > > > > > descriptions online of other birds which seem to be as clear as mud. > > This > > > > > > > > bird was hiding in a small ponderosa pine near the feeders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > > > > > > Laure Wilson Neish > > > > > > > > Penticton, BC Canada > > > > > > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > To contact the moderator email > > > > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > > > > Also, consider joining these groups. > > > > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > > > > If you have pictures to share try this group. > > > > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > > > > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see > > the > > > > pictures. > > > > Subject: Re: Re: Hoary Redpoll ? From: Laure Neish <natureneish AT gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 12:55:53 -0800 Hi Doug, This is from BNA : *Male shows little if any pink on cheeks, breast, or rump; female almost invariably shows none. In male, what pink there is becomes more conspicuous as breeding season approaches. Overall, males paler than females.* ** Of the very few Hoaries I've seen across Canada, and from my two photos on the gallery (feeding on catkins) this has been my experience too.which is why I said that if it was a mle it would have had a hint of pink but not so much streaking in combination. The bird is probably a plae Common Redpoll. Perhaps I didn't understand your point, but are you saying if it was a male Hoary it should have red on the breast? Laure On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:56 AM, douglasbrown01 wrote: > ** > > > Hi Laure; > > I would not assume the bird is a male based on the pink breast wash. Only > birds with a large amount of pink can be assumed to be adult males as adult > females and immature males will show as much pink as in your photo. The > amount of streaking is very variable which is part of why they are so > difficult to sex. Only immature females are supposed to show no pink on the > breast. > > Doug Brown > Osoyoos > > --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, Laure Neish wrote: > > > > Hi, Thanks for your input Chris. I have to agree and yesterday I looked > up > > Hoary Redpoll on BNA (Birds of North America online) and found the link > to > > David Sibley's blog in which he discusses the continuum between Common > and > > Hoary and how most of the birds that are IDed in confidence are male > Hoary > > Redpolls which have the "snowflake" look of the palest phenotype. He > raises > > another interesting question about redpolls life in long nights of arctic > > darkness. > > > > http://sibleyguides.blogspot.com/2008/01/my-holiday-redpoll-photos.html > > > > *"Redpoll identification is challenging because Hoary and Common Redpoll > > seem to show an unbroken continuum of variation from pale to dark, and > > there are no fully reliable differences. So birders have to rely on a > > subjective assessment of overall colour and struggle to define the > > threshold for confident identification. Virtually all birders see > redpolls > > only in the winter, where identification is reduced to an utterly > one-sided > > question: "Where can we draw the line so that we are sure the accepted > > records of Hoary Redpolls are correct?" * > > > > I looked through my photos again and realized that the bird in this side > > view is the same bird in the previously presented front view. > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h12101c70#h12101c70 > > Still hard to see the complete undertail coverts or rump. > > > > In the case of this redpoll, if it is a male (which I assume it is > because > > of the pink wash) I would expect it to be even paler than it is to be a > > pure Hoary. The females seem to have a bit more streaking though. > > > > Anyway, I'll keep looking! > > > > Laure > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Chris Charlesworth < > > c_charlesworth23 AT ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Laure, > > > > > > Nice that you've got redpolls in your yard! There aren't too many > around > > > this winter and they've all been way up in high elevation forests for > the > > > most part. Your bird might just be a Hoary, but might is the key word > here. > > > I'm not sure I would ID that bird from the photos. I would need to see > the > > > rump as you mentioned, and the undertail coverts. The ground color is > nice > > > and white and the bill might be a little bit pushed in perhaps. I am a > bit > > > hesitant to call it a Hoary based on the fairly dark flank streaks > though. > > > Most of the Hoary's I've ID'd had very little to almost no flank > streaking. > > > > > > Chris Charlesworth > > > > > > > > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > > From: natureneish AT ... > > > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:10:34 -0800 > > > Subject: [bcintbird] Hoary Redpoll ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of several shots on the gallery > > > > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h39dd05b4#h21c9aed3 > > > > > > > > > > > > I may not be able to answer this question, because it can be difficult > to > > > > > > tell the difference between pale Common Redpolls and Hoary, especially > > > > > > since I couldn't get a shot of the rump without flushing the bird. (I > was > > > > > > standing about 2 metres aways in the driveway behind my camera on > tripod) > > > > > > Since the first day of this month, when the first redpoll appeared at > the > > > > > > feeders, there has been a steady increase in numbers with a quick > count of > > > > > > 17 this morning at 8 am. It has been quite fascinating watching these > birds > > > > > > and comparing all the variations in appearance, between males and > females, > > > > > > between browner birds and paler birds, some with dark blackish streaks > and > > > > > > some with finer brown streaks. All the while I've had my eye and > binoculars > > > > > > out for a possible Hoary in the mix and today I came upon this one. The > > > > > > hint of pink across the breast indicates a male bird, the bill seems > sort > > > > > > of pushed in, and the overall ground colour is whitish. But the streaks > > > > > > might mean its a Common and ...well i'm just not sure. Although the > > > > > > "snowflake" look on some birds is obvious, there are photos and > > > > > > descriptions online of other birds which seem to be as clear as mud. > This > > > > > > bird was hiding in a small ponderosa pine near the feeders. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > > > > Laure Wilson Neish > > > > > > Penticton, BC Canada > > > > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > To contact the moderator email > > > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > > > Also, consider joining these groups. > > > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > > > If you have pictures to share try this group. > > > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > > > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see > the > > > pictures. > > > Subject: Re: Hoary Redpoll ? From: "douglasbrown01" <douglasbrown01 AT yahoo.ca> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 19:56:55 -0000 Hi Laure; I would not assume the bird is a male based on the pink breast wash. Only birds with a large amount of pink can be assumed to be adult males as adult females and immature males will show as much pink as in your photo. The amount of streaking is very variable which is part of why they are so difficult to sex. Only immature females are supposed to show no pink on the breast. Doug Brown Osoyoos --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, Laure Neish wrote: > > Hi, Thanks for your input Chris. I have to agree and yesterday I looked up > Hoary Redpoll on BNA (Birds of North America online) and found the link to > David Sibley's blog in which he discusses the continuum between Common and > Hoary and how most of the birds that are IDed in confidence are male Hoary > Redpolls which have the "snowflake" look of the palest phenotype. He raises > another interesting question about redpolls life in long nights of arctic > darkness. > > http://sibleyguides.blogspot.com/2008/01/my-holiday-redpoll-photos.html > > *"Redpoll identification is challenging because Hoary and Common Redpoll > seem to show an unbroken continuum of variation from pale to dark, and > there are no fully reliable differences. So birders have to rely on a > subjective assessment of overall colour and struggle to define the > threshold for confident identification. Virtually all birders see redpolls > only in the winter, where identification is reduced to an utterly one-sided > question: "Where can we draw the line so that we are sure the accepted > records of Hoary Redpolls are correct?" * > > I looked through my photos again and realized that the bird in this side > view is the same bird in the previously presented front view. > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h12101c70#h12101c70 > Still hard to see the complete undertail coverts or rump. > > In the case of this redpoll, if it is a male (which I assume it is because > of the pink wash) I would expect it to be even paler than it is to be a > pure Hoary. The females seem to have a bit more streaking though. > > Anyway, I'll keep looking! > > Laure > > > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Chris Charlesworth < > c_charlesworth23 AT ...> wrote: > > > > > Hi Laure, > > > > Nice that you've got redpolls in your yard! There aren't too many around > > this winter and they've all been way up in high elevation forests for the > > most part. Your bird might just be a Hoary, but might is the key word here. > > I'm not sure I would ID that bird from the photos. I would need to see the > > rump as you mentioned, and the undertail coverts. The ground color is nice > > and white and the bill might be a little bit pushed in perhaps. I am a bit > > hesitant to call it a Hoary based on the fairly dark flank streaks though. > > Most of the Hoary's I've ID'd had very little to almost no flank streaking. > > > > Chris Charlesworth > > > > > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > > From: natureneish AT ... > > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:10:34 -0800 > > Subject: [bcintbird] Hoary Redpoll ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of several shots on the gallery > > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h39dd05b4#h21c9aed3 > > > > > > > > I may not be able to answer this question, because it can be difficult to > > > > tell the difference between pale Common Redpolls and Hoary, especially > > > > since I couldn't get a shot of the rump without flushing the bird. (I was > > > > standing about 2 metres aways in the driveway behind my camera on tripod) > > > > Since the first day of this month, when the first redpoll appeared at the > > > > feeders, there has been a steady increase in numbers with a quick count of > > > > 17 this morning at 8 am. It has been quite fascinating watching these birds > > > > and comparing all the variations in appearance, between males and females, > > > > between browner birds and paler birds, some with dark blackish streaks and > > > > some with finer brown streaks. All the while I've had my eye and binoculars > > > > out for a possible Hoary in the mix and today I came upon this one. The > > > > hint of pink across the breast indicates a male bird, the bill seems sort > > > > of pushed in, and the overall ground colour is whitish. But the streaks > > > > might mean its a Common and ...well i'm just not sure. Although the > > > > "snowflake" look on some birds is obvious, there are photos and > > > > descriptions online of other birds which seem to be as clear as mud. This > > > > bird was hiding in a small ponderosa pine near the feeders. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > > Laure Wilson Neish > > > > Penticton, BC Canada > > > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To contact the moderator email > > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > > Also, consider joining these groups. > > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > > If you have pictures to share try this group. > > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the > > pictures. > > Subject: VARC - 2011 Year end Report From: "Derek Matthews" <Derek AT birdvancouver.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 19:02:11 -0000 Hi Birders and Banders, All the rain and snow this month has meant little or no banding at Colony Farm but it has given us the opportunity to work on the VARC year end report for 2011 which we've just finished and put up for anyone interested. http://birdvancouver.com/pdf/varc_2011yearendreport.pdf It's a fairly large file so please give it a moment or two to load! Cheers. Derek Derek Matthews VARC www.birdvancouver.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Hoary Redpoll ? From: Laure Neish <natureneish AT gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 06:53:00 -0800 Hi, Thanks for your input Chris. I have to agree and yesterday I looked up Hoary Redpoll on BNA (Birds of North America online) and found the link to David Sibley's blog in which he discusses the continuum between Common and Hoary and how most of the birds that are IDed in confidence are male Hoary Redpolls which have the "snowflake" look of the palest phenotype. He raises another interesting question about redpolls life in long nights of arctic darkness. http://sibleyguides.blogspot.com/2008/01/my-holiday-redpoll-photos.html *“Redpoll identification is challenging because Hoary and Common Redpoll seem to show an unbroken continuum of variation from pale to dark, and there are no fully reliable differences. So birders have to rely on a subjective assessment of overall colour and struggle to define the threshold for confident identification. Virtually all birders see redpolls only in the winter, where identification is reduced to an utterly one-sided question: “Where can we draw the line so that we are sure the accepted records of Hoary Redpolls are correct?” * I looked through my photos again and realized that the bird in this side view is the same bird in the previously presented front view. http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h12101c70#h12101c70 Still hard to see the complete undertail coverts or rump. In the case of this redpoll, if it is a male (which I assume it is because of the pink wash) I would expect it to be even paler than it is to be a pure Hoary. The females seem to have a bit more streaking though. Anyway, I'll keep looking! Laure On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Chris Charlesworth < c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Laure, > > Nice that you've got redpolls in your yard! There aren't too many around > this winter and they've all been way up in high elevation forests for the > most part. Your bird might just be a Hoary, but might is the key word here. > I'm not sure I would ID that bird from the photos. I would need to see the > rump as you mentioned, and the undertail coverts. The ground color is nice > and white and the bill might be a little bit pushed in perhaps. I am a bit > hesitant to call it a Hoary based on the fairly dark flank streaks though. > Most of the Hoary's I've ID'd had very little to almost no flank streaking. > > Chris Charlesworth > > > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > From: natureneish AT gmail.com > Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:10:34 -0800 > Subject: [bcintbird] Hoary Redpoll ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of several shots on the gallery > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h39dd05b4#h21c9aed3 > > > > I may not be able to answer this question, because it can be difficult to > > tell the difference between pale Common Redpolls and Hoary, especially > > since I couldn't get a shot of the rump without flushing the bird. (I was > > standing about 2 metres aways in the driveway behind my camera on tripod) > > Since the first day of this month, when the first redpoll appeared at the > > feeders, there has been a steady increase in numbers with a quick count of > > 17 this morning at 8 am. It has been quite fascinating watching these birds > > and comparing all the variations in appearance, between males and females, > > between browner birds and paler birds, some with dark blackish streaks and > > some with finer brown streaks. All the while I've had my eye and binoculars > > out for a possible Hoary in the mix and today I came upon this one. The > > hint of pink across the breast indicates a male bird, the bill seems sort > > of pushed in, and the overall ground colour is whitish. But the streaks > > might mean its a Common and ...well i'm just not sure. Although the > > "snowflake" look on some birds is obvious, there are photos and > > descriptions online of other birds which seem to be as clear as mud. This > > bird was hiding in a small ponderosa pine near the feeders. > > > > -- > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > Laure Wilson Neish > > Penticton, BC Canada > > http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To contact the moderator email > bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com > Also, consider joining these groups. > bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. > If you have pictures to share try this group. > http://groups-beta.google.com/ > From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the > pictures. > Subject: RE: Hoary Redpoll ? From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:26:55 -0800 Hi Laure, Nice that you've got redpolls in your yard! There aren't too many around this winter and they've all been way up in high elevation forests for the most part. Your bird might just be a Hoary, but might is the key word here. I'm not sure I would ID that bird from the photos. I would need to see the rump as you mentioned, and the undertail coverts. The ground color is nice and white and the bill might be a little bit pushed in perhaps. I am a bit hesitant to call it a Hoary based on the fairly dark flank streaks though. Most of the Hoary's I've ID'd had very little to almost no flank streaking. Chris Charlesworth To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com From: natureneish AT gmail.com Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:10:34 -0800 Subject: [bcintbird] Hoary Redpoll ? First of several shots on the gallery http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h39dd05b4#h21c9aed3 I may not be able to answer this question, because it can be difficult to tell the difference between pale Common Redpolls and Hoary, especially since I couldn't get a shot of the rump without flushing the bird. (I was standing about 2 metres aways in the driveway behind my camera on tripod) Since the first day of this month, when the first redpoll appeared at the feeders, there has been a steady increase in numbers with a quick count of 17 this morning at 8 am. It has been quite fascinating watching these birds and comparing all the variations in appearance, between males and females, between browner birds and paler birds, some with dark blackish streaks and some with finer brown streaks. All the while I've had my eye and binoculars out for a possible Hoary in the mix and today I came upon this one. The hint of pink across the breast indicates a male bird, the bill seems sort of pushed in, and the overall ground colour is whitish. But the streaks might mean its a Common and ...well i'm just not sure. Although the "snowflake" look on some birds is obvious, there are photos and descriptions online of other birds which seem to be as clear as mud. This bird was hiding in a small ponderosa pine near the feeders. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Hoary Redpoll ? From: Laure Neish <natureneish AT gmail.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:10:34 -0800 First of several shots on the gallery http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p590959410/h39dd05b4#h21c9aed3 I may not be able to answer this question, because it can be difficult to tell the difference between pale Common Redpolls and Hoary, especially since I couldn't get a shot of the rump without flushing the bird. (I was standing about 2 metres aways in the driveway behind my camera on tripod) Since the first day of this month, when the first redpoll appeared at the feeders, there has been a steady increase in numbers with a quick count of 17 this morning at 8 am. It has been quite fascinating watching these birds and comparing all the variations in appearance, between males and females, between browner birds and paler birds, some with dark blackish streaks and some with finer brown streaks. All the while I've had my eye and binoculars out for a possible Hoary in the mix and today I came upon this one. The hint of pink across the breast indicates a male bird, the bill seems sort of pushed in, and the overall ground colour is whitish. But the streaks might mean its a Common and ...well i'm just not sure. Although the "snowflake" look on some birds is obvious, there are photos and descriptions online of other birds which seem to be as clear as mud. This bird was hiding in a small ponderosa pine near the feeders. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: spotted towhee From: "Katharine Shewchuk" <ka_shewchuk AT telus.net> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:37:40 -0800 Hello Janna and all, It is interesting to note that we have had two, sometimes three SPTO on the ground and in the bushes near our feeder, too. They have been evident during the winter for the past five years and I am sure they now breed here in the same area. Sounds like another case of dispersion from the west to me, but I'm not an authority. Katharine, Merritt _____ From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Janna Leslie Sent: January 28, 2012 8:59 AM To: bcintbird Subject: [bcintbird] spotted towhee Hi all. Yesterday I was surprised to see a spotted towhee under the feeder -- briefly. It came back for a visit this morning. It's certainly a nice sight to see! Cheers, Janna Leslie, Naramata [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Still on the search for Snowy From: "amanda.lahaie" <amlahaie AT gmail.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:07:30 -0000 Thanks for the helpful information. Unfortunately due to road closures yesterday and white out conditions today our trip has been postponed until a more favourable time. I'll let you know when I find them! Amanda Princeton --- In bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com, "Katharine Shewchuk" wrote: > > We certainly had good views January 9th. There are two individuals-one at > K15-16 and the other about K21 on the corral posts at first, then on a fence > post opposite. The gate to Minnie Lake is at K20. The mileages are from > the jct. of Hwy 5A and Pennask Lake road. Good luck! > > Katharine (Merritt) > > > > _____ > > From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of amanda.lahaie > Sent: January 26, 2012 12:30 PM > To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: [bcintbird] Still on the search for Snowy > > > > > > Hey everyone, > > I was wondering if anyone has seen the two Snowy Owls on the Pennask Lake > Road near Merritt recently. I hope to make a trip up there with my family > tomorrow, so I'm hoping they are still around. > > I also had a stunning dark-morph Red-tailed Hawk perched in a tree in the > park across the road yesterday. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/photo-frenzy/6763319427/in/photostream/lightbox > / He seemed to be giving me the evil eye! > > Amanda > Princeton > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: spotted towhee From: Janna Leslie <jannamles AT yahoo.ca> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:59:15 -0800 (PST) Hi all. Yesterday I was surprised to see a spotted towhee under the feeder -- briefly.  It came back for a visit this morning.  It's certainly a nice sight to see! Cheers, Janna Leslie, Naramata [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: thrasher dip From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 20:51:28 -0800 The trip is sounding more adventurous all the time Chris. The lone camper was actually the infamous Pinyon Pine Slasher. He normally does tires but he is notoriously unpredictable and hates bird listers. He will occasionally slip out of the mountains where he becomes known as the Thrasher Slasher, thus explaining periodic low numbers of this target species. I recommend maintaining a listless profile while in the general area and if he asks what you have seen, explain your amnesia problem and bolt - asap. Don't even whisper LeConte's or condor and hide the ABA guide with those species underlined - it could set him right off. Happy birding. Rick Howie Listless in Kamloops From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Siddle Sent: January-27-12 4:48 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] thrasher dip Hi birders, After getting a new water pump in Modesto, we thanked the crew at Central Valley VW for treating us so well, and as we drove away, I saw a Yellow-billed Magpie fly across the road into an orchard. Most of the rest of the day I had to content myself with making up distance and birding from the van at 100 kph. North of Taft I glimpsed a Greater Roadrunner and at Exit 278 Great-tailed Grackles were flying around town with Brewer's Blackbirds. We drove Hwy 33 through Taft to Maricopa to scout the Le Conte's Thrasher area for tomorrow. Now the problem of where to spend the night presented itself. Sonja read of a campground called Valle Vista and so following her directions I drove west (Sonja says east; she's probably right) from Maricopa into the hills, higher, and higher, and higher. Finally it dawned on me where we were- Los Padres National Forest past Bitter Creek NWR. These are California Condor spots. At Mile 9 is the gamous Los Padres sign which my ABA guide to Southern California told me was THE spot for seeing wild condors back before April 1987, when the last coodors were taken into protective custody for breeding. The campground turned out to be almost without services. We eased the van down the steep entrance road to the campground among the Single-leaf Pinyon Pines, and I picked up Western Bluebirds and an Oak Titmouse for the year. Not that I'm keeping a year's list, I keep telling myself. A coyote howling at dusk, my first coyote of the year IF I was keeping a year's list of mammals. The only other occupant of the campground was a tall middle-aged man who kept to himself. He just sat at his picnic table, rocking himself back and forth, back and forth, sharpening a big Bowie knife with a round stone, talking to himself in a child's high pitched voice and giggling now and then. OK, he didn't do any of those things but I kept my eyes on him until it soon grew too dark to keep track of his whereabouts. With no power and our only source of light the headlamps we wore, which makes conversation a challenge since we were always shining our lights into each others' eyes, we went to bed early. Now I discovered just how uneven the ground was beneath the van. It was like sleeping on a shelf that leaned in toward the wall but also up at the head end and down at the foot. It was a long night. When we left the campground the fog was so thick that I could see only about 5 m ahead of us. Fortunately the mountain road had a nice bright yellow centre line. We crept down, down, down and my hopes that we might glimpse a Barn Owl or a Great Horned were dashed by the mist. We reached the Maricopa Petroleum Club Road at dawn, sort of, if you can call the murk that barely illuminated the desert landscape dawn, and followed ABA directions to Kerto and Cadet crossroads where for the next two hours we stalked the idea of a Le Conte's Thrasher. Of the actual birds there was not a trace. I think they may shelter in rodent holes in damp weather. And so for the second time in as many years, I came up empty at Maricopa. The only birds we saw were a few dozen White-crowned Sparrows (even they were extremely skittish) and a couple of Sage Sparrows. Oh, well.... Chris Siddle currently in Santa Paula, CA. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: South Okanagan birding From: "A & J Ginns" <ginnsj AT shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 20:17:41 -0800 Before Janna Leslie and I met Laure, we had stopped at the Red Roost on Sheep Creek rd, Twin Lakes area to see what their feeders were attracting. Two Evening Grosbeaks were the prize! Also about were 10 Steller's Jay, a few Mountain and Black-capped Chickadees, a Hairy Woodpecker and some House finches and a Junco or two! Driving across the White Lake basin (Kaleden/Okanagan Falls) there was an adult Bald Eagle overhead, a Northern Harrier low over the fields at White Lake ranch, and a Northern Shrike, a Kestrel and a Rough-legged Hawk were on the power lines or poles. Then we met Laure and watched the Eagles and Prairie Falcon. Leaving Laure we stopped at a usually good spot in Willowbrook but only roused a Red-breasted Nuthatch. At Mahoney Lake the Pileated had moved on but at Green Lake a Red-tailed Hawk was in a Doug-fir. Dropping down to the valley bottom the Ok Falls highlights were several Dippers, a pair of Barrow's Goldeneyes (down from about 20 a week before), 3 Trumpeter Swan in the channel, and one cold-looking Robin at the campground. Laure's spotting Chukar at Vaseux Bluffs spurred us to head there. Going up the road we saw only a couple of Magpies. But at the field where cattle are being overwintered there was ONE Starling on the back of a cow; keeping its feet warm or imitating a Cowbird? Turning the car around we stopped to look at 4 swans (presumably Trumpeters) on the ice of Vaseux Lake and two more joined them. Then a Canyon Wren called from the bluffs. Further down the roadl at the top of a cut bank enjoying the mid-afternoon sun were 12 Gray Partridge. Skiddish, they flushed as soon as we stopped. Resuming downhill there was a distant flock of birds that flew into a nearly vertical gully in the bluff. First glimpse suggested just Rock Pigeons but they were too low and their flight wasn't like Pigeons. When we got a better view of the gully and a good bit closer it still took some time until Janna spotted birds moving; 15 Chukar and they were less that 100 m from where Laure had seen some that morning. Jim Ginns ----- Original Message ----- From: Laure Neish To: BC interior birds list Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 3:09 PM Subject: [bcintbird] South Okanagan birding It was a fine day to be out birding in the sunshine today. I found three new birds for my winter list starting with a group of 5 Chukar at Vaseux Lake bluffs near the old sheep feeding station area. Over to Mahoney Lake and there was a long-lost (at least for me) Pileated Woodpecker next to the road near Sleeping Waters and Mahoney. As I headed around the circle route to White Lake, I drove past Jim Ginns and Janna Leslie coming the other way, so we stopped and compared notes about our morning sightings. Jim and Janna mentioned an interesting hawk they had just seen at White Lake behind the Ranch, which hoved over the grasslands back and forth but they weren't quite sure what it was except it had dark armpits (sorry guys - those might be my words). "Hmm" I said "that sounds like a Prairie Falcon". Just then Jim or Janna spotted a hawk coming over the hills and as we all trained our binocs on it, it turned out to be a Golden Eagle swooping and acting more like a hawk than a large eagle. Along came another Golden Eagle and right behind that...was a Prairie Falcon! What a fortuitous meeting on that stretch of road! We all had lovely views of the dark under wing axillaries on the falcon and the Golden Eagles circled almost directly overhead a few times. If we hadn't bumped into each other and gotten out of the cars to chat, we probably would have missed out on some nice sightings. There was a fresh deer carcass just down the road so perhaps some of the raptors were heading that way. Some photos: http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p461915537/h5a76108#h5a76108 Prairie Falcon http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p156254276/h301cd8d0#h301cd8d0 Golden Eagle http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p65873492/h27ad5836#h27ad5836 Chukar -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4767 - Release Date: 01/26/12 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: thrasher dip From: Chris Siddle <chris.siddle AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:48:19 -0800 Hi birders, After getting a new water pump in Modesto, we thanked the crew at Central Valley VW for treating us so well, and as we drove away, I saw a Yellow-billed Magpie fly across the road into an orchard. Most of the rest of the day I had to content myself with making up distance and birding from the van at 100 kph. North of Taft I glimpsed a Greater Roadrunner and at Exit 278 Great-tailed Grackles were flying around town with Brewer's Blackbirds. We drove Hwy 33 through Taft to Maricopa to scout the Le Conte's Thrasher area for tomorrow. Now the problem of where to spend the night presented itself. Sonja read of a campground called Valle Vista and so following her directions I drove west (Sonja says east; she's probably right) from Maricopa into the hills, higher, and higher, and higher. Finally it dawned on me where we were- Los Padres National Forest past Bitter Creek NWR. These are California Condor spots. At Mile 9 is the famous Los Padres sign which my ABA guide to Southern California told me was THE spot for seeing wild condors back before April 1987, when the last condors were taken into protective custody for breeding. The campground turned out to be almost without services. We eased the van down the steep entrance road to the campground among the Single-leaf Pinyon Pines, and I picked up Western Bluebirds and an Oak Titmouse for the year. Not that I'm keeping a year's list, I keep telling myself. A coyote howling at dusk, my first coyote of the year IF I was keeping a year's list of mammals. The only other occupant of the campground was a tall middle-aged man who kept to himself. He just sat at his picnic table, rocking himself back and forth, back and forth, sharpening a big Bowie knife with a round stone, talking to himself in a child's high pitched voice and giggling now and then. OK, he didn't do any of those things but I kept my eyes on him until it soon grew too dark to keep track of his whereabouts. With no power and our only source of light the headlamps we wore, which makes conversation a challenge since we were always shining our lights into each others' eyes, we went to bed early. Now I discovered just how uneven the ground was beneath the van. It was like sleeping on a shelf that leaned in toward the wall but also up at the head end and down at the foot. It was a long night. When we left the campground the fog was so thick that I could see only about 5 m ahead of us. Fortunately the mountain road had a nice bright yellow centre line. We crept down, down, down and my hopes that we might glimpse a Barn Owl or a Great Horned were dashed by the mist. We reached the Maricopa Petroleum Club Road at dawn, sort of, if you can call the murk that barely illuminated the desert landscape dawn, and followed ABA directions to Kerto and Cadet crossroads where for the next two hours we stalked the idea of a Le Conte's Thrasher. Of the actual birds there was not a trace. I think they may shelter in rodent holes in damp weather. And so for the second time in as many years, I came up empty at Maricopa. The only birds we saw were a few dozen White-crowned Sparrows (even they were extremely skittish) and a couple of Sage Sparrows. Oh, well.... Chris Siddle currently in Santa Paula, CA. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Sacramento Nat'l Wildlife Refuge From: "Wayne Weber" <contopus AT telus.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 06:36:13 -0800 Chris and Interior Birders, Yes, the Sacramento NWR is indeed a wonderful birding location-- 12 months a year. I discovered it more than 40 years ago, in 1970, and have revisited it as often as possible since then (including a brief visit 5 days ago, on January 22nd). Of all the NWRs in the Great Valley of California, it is the most convenient to visit, as it is located right next to Interstate 5, and there are good places to stay nearby in the small towns of Willows and Williams. However-- it's too bad you didn't also visit the nearby Colusa NWR, which is administered as part of the Sacramento NWR. If so, you would have seen the male FALCATED DUCK which has been regaling visitors to that refuge ever since it showed up on December 8th! I had great looks at the Falcated Duck during my visit on January 22nd. In fact, the reason that my visit to the Sacramento NWR was so brief was because I spent 5 hours that day birding the Colusa NWR, which also has a 3-mile auto tour route. Despite the fact that it rained almost the whole day, I managed to find 56 species at the Colusa NWR, including such goodies as COMMON GALLINULE, WHITE-FACED IBIS, BLACK-NECKED STILT, LONG-BILLED CURLEW, TRICOLORED BLACKBIRD, and CALIFORNIA TOWHEE. You can see a copy of my list at http://ebird.org/ebird/view/checklist?subID=S9687630 . Last year, during a 2-week visit to California in late March, I tallied 49 species at the Sacramento NWR and 60 at the Colusa NWR. I also made visits to the Los Banos State WMA near the town of the same name, and the Kern NWR NW of Bakersfield. There are another dozen or so federal and state refuges in the Great Valley that I didn't have time to visit. The abundance and diversity of wildlife at these refuges, especially in the winter, is astounding. I hope you and Sonja have a great trip, and we would be delighted to hear about what you see at other stops on your voyage! Wayne C. Weber Delta, BC contopus AT telus.net From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Siddle Sent: January-25-12 7:28 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Sacramento Nat'l Wildlife Refuge Hi birders, Yesterday, only 45 minutes before it closed, Sonja and I discovered a magical place called Sacramento NWR. The air over the marshes was full of Snow Geese, Greater White-fronts, and Ross's Geese. Bushtits, White-crowned Sparrows, and Yellow-rumped Warblers moved through the bushes while a Black Phoebe caught midges from an overhead wire. This was a place worth re-visiting so we asked at the visitors' center where the nearest R.V. park was We were told that we could park at Wal-Mart, a few kms to the north at Willows. Either that or drive 40 miles back the way we had come. Wal-Mart it was, a first for us. We were back at the refuge at daybreak. A six mile auto tour crossed part of the marsh. Black-tailed Jackrabbits hopped through the high beams as we crept along the road. The most numerous waterfowl were Mallards, Northern Shovellers, Northern Pintails, with lesser numbers of American Wigeon, Green-winged Teal, Cinnamon Teal, Ruddy Ducks, Ring-necked Ducks, and Buffleheads. Other marsh birds included American Coots, Common Moorhens (Common Gallinules, as the new AOU name appears to be), American White Pelicans, Double-crested Cormorants, Great Blue Herons, Great Egrets, Snowy Egrets, and, best of all, an American Bittern Sonja pointed out to me. Killdeer and Black-necked Stilts were present in small numbers, as well as a few Pied-billed Grebes and an Eared Grebe. Raptors included many Red-tailed Hawks and Northern Harriers, four adult Red-shouldered Hawks, a Merlin, and an accipiter sp. Land birds included Bewick's Wrens, Marsh Wrens, Black Phoebes, a Tree Swallow, Ruby-crowned Kinglets, Yellow-rumped Warblers, an Orange-crowned Warbler, Golden-crowned Sparrows, White-crowned Sparrows, Song Sparrows, a Savannah Sparrow, and a Fox Sparrow. In the deciduous trees around the visitors center I found a male Nuttall's Woodpecker, a species I hadn't seen since 1991. Our short visit (we left at 10 AM) was an excellent introduction to the national wildlife refuges of the Sacramento Valley. Chris Siddle currently Modesto, Cal. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Chichester From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:54:12 -0800 Birders, I poked around Chichester Bird Sanct. in Kelowna this afternoon. Had a nice roosting GREAT HORNED OWL in the willows at the N. end of the park. Also in the same tree was a BROWN CREEPER. I watched a VIRGINIA RAIL creep through the mud right in front of me. Beautiful bird when seen well. Two female type GREEN-WINGED TEAL quietly moved through the reeds, while a couple of STELLER'S JAYS made a lot of noise in nearby trees. The E. pond is ice free and had about a hundred MALLARDS, along with 3 BUFFLEHEAD and 2 COMMON GOLDENEYE. Chris Charlesworth Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Still on the search for Snowy From: Jim Mitchell <butcher99 AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:48:54 -0800 some great photos there. Love the panaramas On 26/01/2012 12:30 PM, amanda.lahaie wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > I was wondering if anyone has seen the two Snowy Owls on the Pennask > Lake Road near Merritt recently. I hope to make a trip up there with > my family tomorrow, so I'm hoping they are still around. > > I also had a stunning dark-morph Red-tailed Hawk perched in a tree in > the park across the road yesterday. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/photo-frenzy/6763319427/in/photostream/lightbox/ > He seemed to be giving me the evil eye! > > Amanda > Princeton > > ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Still on the search for Snowy From: "Katharine Shewchuk" <ka_shewchuk AT telus.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:21:51 -0800 We certainly had good views January 9th. There are two individuals-one at K15-16 and the other about K21 on the corral posts at first, then on a fence post opposite. The gate to Minnie Lake is at K20. The mileages are from the jct. of Hwy 5A and Pennask Lake road. Good luck! Katharine (Merritt) _____ From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amanda.lahaie Sent: January 26, 2012 12:30 PM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Still on the search for Snowy Hey everyone, I was wondering if anyone has seen the two Snowy Owls on the Pennask Lake Road near Merritt recently. I hope to make a trip up there with my family tomorrow, so I'm hoping they are still around. I also had a stunning dark-morph Red-tailed Hawk perched in a tree in the park across the road yesterday. http://www.flickr.com/photos/photo-frenzy/6763319427/in/photostream/lightbox / He seemed to be giving me the evil eye! Amanda Princeton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: South Okanagan birding From: Laure Neish <natureneish AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:09:00 -0800 It was a fine day to be out birding in the sunshine today. I found three new birds for my winter list starting with a group of 5 Chukar at Vaseux Lake bluffs near the old sheep feeding station area. Over to Mahoney Lake and there was a long-lost (at least for me) Pileated Woodpecker next to the road near Sleeping Waters and Mahoney. As I headed around the circle route to White Lake, I drove past Jim Ginns and Janna Leslie coming the other way, so we stopped and compared notes about our morning sightings. Jim and Janna mentioned an interesting hawk they had just seen at White Lake behind the Ranch, which hoved over the grasslands back and forth but they weren't quite sure what it was except it had dark armpits (sorry guys - those might be my words). "Hmm" I said "that sounds like a Prairie Falcon". Just then Jim or Janna spotted a hawk coming over the hills and as we all trained our binocs on it, it turned out to be a Golden Eagle swooping and acting more like a hawk than a large eagle. Along came another Golden Eagle and right behind that...was a Prairie Falcon! What a fortuitous meeting on that stretch of road! We all had lovely views of the dark under wing axillaries on the falcon and the Golden Eagles circled almost directly overhead a few times. If we hadn't bumped into each other and gotten out of the cars to chat, we probably would have missed out on some nice sightings. There was a fresh deer carcass just down the road so perhaps some of the raptors were heading that way. Some photos: http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p461915537/h5a76108#h5a76108 Prairie Falcon http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p156254276/h301cd8d0#h301cd8d0 Golden Eagle http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/p65873492/h27ad5836#h27ad5836 Chukar -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: RE: Eurasian Collared doves From: "Bob and Maggie" <bobnmaggie AT shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:07:44 -0800 Maybe that's the secret to being so successful as an invasive species! Anytime, anyplace, any temperature! Bob Handfield Kaleden From: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tammy Proctor Sent: January 26, 2012 10:42 AM To: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Eurasian Collared doves Looked out the front window this morning with a cup of coffee. Had a light dusting of snow and it looked so nice. Looked up and on the telephone line were two Eurasian Collared Doves copulating. Not what I was expecting to see this cold morning. Tammy Ashcroft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Still on the search for Snowy From: "amanda.lahaie" <amlahaie AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:30:11 -0000 Hey everyone, I was wondering if anyone has seen the two Snowy Owls on the Pennask Lake Road near Merritt recently. I hope to make a trip up there with my family tomorrow, so I'm hoping they are still around. I also had a stunning dark-morph Red-tailed Hawk perched in a tree in the park across the road yesterday. http://www.flickr.com/photos/photo-frenzy/6763319427/in/photostream/lightbox/ He seemed to be giving me the evil eye! Amanda Princeton ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Eurasian Collared doves From: Tammy Proctor <birdsonly4me AT yahoo.ca> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:42:02 -0800 (PST) Looked out the front window this morning with a cup of coffee. Had a light dusting of snow and it looked so nice. Looked up and on the telephone line were two Eurasian Collared Doves copulating. Not what I was expecting to see this cold morning.   Tammy Ashcroft [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Sacramento Nat'l Wildlife Refuge From: Chris Siddle <chris.siddle AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:27:53 -0800 Hi birders, Yesterday, only 45 minutes before it closed, Sonja and I discovered a magical place called Sacramento NWR. The air over the marshes was full of Snow Geese, Greater White-fronts, and Ross's Geese. Bushtits, White-crowned Sparrows, and Yellow-rumped Warblers moved through the bushes while a Black Phoebe caught midges from an overhead wire. This was a place worth re-visiting so we asked at the visitors' center where the nearest R.V. park was We were told that we could park at Walmart, a few kms to the north at Willows. Either that or drive 40 miles back the way we had come. Walmart it was, a first for us. We were back at the refuge at daybreak. A six mile auto tour crossed part of the marsh. Black-tailed Jackrabbits hopped through the high beams as we crept along the road. The most numerous waterfowl were Mallards, Northern Shovellers, Northern Pintails, with lesser numbers of American Wigeon, Green-winged Teal, Cinnamon Teal, Ruddy Ducks, Ring-necked Ducks, and Buffleheads. Other marsh birds includedAmerican Coots, Common Moorhens (Common Gallinules, as the new AOU name appears to be), American White Pelicans, Double-crested Cormorants, Great Blue Herons, Great Egrets, Snowy Egrets, and, best of all, an American Bittern Sonja pointed out to me. Killdeer and Black-necked Stilts were present in small numbers, as well as a few Pied-billed Grebes and an Eared Grebe. Raptors included many Red-tailed Hawks and Northern Harriers, four adult Red-shouldered Hawks, a Merlin, and an accipiter sp. Land birds included Bewick's Wrens, Marsh Wrens, Black Phoebes, a Tree Swallow, Ruby-crowned Kinglets, Yellow-rumped Warblers, an Orange-crowned Warbler, Golden-crowned Sparrows, White-crowned Sparrows, Song Sparrows, a Savannah Sparrow, and a Fox Sparrow. In the deciduous trees around the visitors center I found a male Nuttall's Woodpecker, a species I hadn't seen since 1991. Our short visit (we left at 10 AM) was an excellent introduction to the national wildlife refuges of the Sacramento Valley. Chris Siddle currently Modesto, Cal. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Kelowna birding From: Chris Charlesworth <c_charlesworth23 AT hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 17:08:01 -0800 Birders, I met Mike Force for a couple hours of birding around the Kelowna Mission area today. I started off alone at Hall Rd while I waited for Mike. Here, the highlight was a female VARIED THRUSH. Otherwise just the usuals. At Mission Ck where I met Mike, we walked the Casorso to K.L.O Rd section. Pretty quiet in there, but a PEREGRINE FALCON made two passes overhead! Also way up was an imm. NORTHERN HARRIER, at least 2 RED-TAILED HAWKS and a BALD EAGLE. A BELTED KINGFISHER flew upstream and briefly perched. Over at Bird Pl, off Cook Rd, we checked Wilson Ck and had 7 WOOD DUCKS, 6 males and a female. Also here was a nice male BELTED KINGFISHER. One quick last stop at Maude Roxby produced one good bird, a second year MEW GULL. Chris Charlesworth Avocet Tours Kelowna, BC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Re: Interesting yard bird From: r.howie AT shaw.ca Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:05:06 +0000 Hi Laure: perhaps the wren just sees the houses as a bunch of very large boulders scattered across the landscape. : ) Rick Howie . Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: Laure Neish Sender: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:42:41 To: BC interior birds list Reply-to: bcintbird AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcintbird] Interesting yard bird Actually it was foraging in my neighbour's car port and wood pile, but yesterday when I returned home from a shopping trip, I heard the distinctive "chink, chink" call of a Canyon Wren and found it with binos across the street. This is not the first time I've seen one in our neighbourhood in the winter as the Ellis Canyon is about 500m -800m? from the house. One December, many years ago, I saw a CANYON WREN picking off spiders, etc. on our house. With all the frigid temps lately, perhaps the bird decided to look for food closer to "civilization". It's not unusual behaviour, it's just that I only see them during an occasional winter day. Has any one else had them in their 'hood? -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Interesting yard bird From: Laure Neish <natureneish AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:42:41 -0800 Actually it was foraging in my neighbour's car port and wood pile, but yesterday when I returned home from a shopping trip, I heard the distinctive "chink, chink" call of a Canyon Wren and found it with binos across the street. This is not the first time I've seen one in our neighbourhood in the winter as the Ellis Canyon is about 500m -800m? from the house. One December, many years ago, I saw a CANYON WREN picking off spiders, etc. on our house. With all the frigid temps lately, perhaps the bird decided to look for food closer to "civilization". It's not unusual behaviour, it's just that I only see them during an occasional winter day. Has any one else had them in their 'hood? -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Laure Wilson Neish Penticton, BC Canada http://natureniche.zenfolio.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures. Subject: Collared Swans From: "Rick Howie" <r.howie AT shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:17:48 -0800 Periodically, members of our group have reported neck-collared Tundra Swans and we have been able to get information that all have been collared on their breeding grounds near King Salmon, Alaska. I was just reading about Tundra Swan P851 which was in the Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge near Vancouver, Washington last January 18. It sounded like a bird that we had seen pass through the interior but I can't find my record on this one just yet. It too was banded on the upper peninsula of Alaska and was seen in Creston during spring migration on March 16, 2011. This supports the notion that some of the Alaska birds migrate inland of the coastal mountains down through the interior and make their way out to the coast, possibly down the Columbia Valley. Return migration may mirror a similar route. Of course some of the birds do not make it all the way to the coast and may stay in the Okanagan for the winter. Few Tundras stay at Kamloops as they used to now that we have a large Trumpeter Swan population that has taken over. All of this points out the useful information that we can gain from the banding process and of course the willingness of people to submit their sightings. Thanks again to all who do this and if you continue to send me the sightings, I will forward them to the US office that coordinates the banding. My contact there is very good at providing us with location data for the banding. Even repeat sightings of the same birds throughout the winter are great, as these confirm how long and just where they winter and possibly even departure dates if observations are frequent enough in an area. Local movements are also valuable to know about as they tell us about just where the essential wintering habitats are located and how dynamic these bird movements could be. Cheers Rick Howie Kamloops [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To contact the moderator email bcintbird-owner AT yahoogroups.com Also, consider joining these groups. bcbirds-subscribe AT yahoogroups.com an all BC group. If you have pictures to share try this group. http://groups-beta.google.com/ From here you have to join the bcintbird-pics group before you can see the pictures.